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Anonymous wrote:And now Kelly jumps in publicly.

Sounds like Kelly tried to prep Trump for the call and remind him that Johnson was doing what he wanted to do when he died, and Trump kind of botched the execution in a big way. Not sure why he's complaining about the Congresswoman though. She was there, and has a right to say how Trump's insensitive words were interpreted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/us/politics/john-kelly-son-trump.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=65972443&pgtype=article

Why is he complaining about the Congresswoman?
It was horribly insensitive and tactless of her to go public with the phone call. She politicized it. It was a private call and it was not her place to make it public.
If anyone knows... he does. He has been there - or didn’t you know he had a son killed in Afghanistan?

Yes, that fact had not escaped me. I bet no one said to Kelly: "your son knew what he signed up for."

Not in those exact words, but the meaning was the same: "Your son chose to sign up....WANTED to defend his country.....and died surrounded by his best friends, and doing exactly what he wanted to do." In the meantime, all this is a diversionary tactic to hide the successful operation in Syria. (And imagine how much worse the widow feels, with the Congresswoman creating a circus around this. FOR SHAME!!)

And if Trump had said those words in that way, maybe he wouldn't have made a widow who was 6 months pregnant cry. He's not good at empathy and should stop doing these calls.

First people were mad that he wasn't doing the calls. Now they're mad that he is. I don't like the guy, but it's clear the press and the establishment has an anti-Trump agenda.

How often have we heard about Trump not promptly fulfilling his promise to give $25k to a gold star family? Yet, when Obama promised money to the family of an American killed by ISIS and subsequently forgot to pay up, it was barely a blip on the radar.

http://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/us-hostage-kayla-muellers-foundation-finally-receives-obama/story?id=43215918

I was willing to engage until you brought up the "go-to strategy" of comparing him to Obama. He is not Obama and he should be forced to stand on his own and be accoutable on his own. I do not criticize him based on what Obama so I always cringe when people defend him with "What about Obama..." It is like Trump and his supporters are more obsessed with him than Obama supporters ever were. And that obsession is not good for our country.

DP, but it is very valid to point out that liberals are criticizing Trump for the very things that they were fine with when Obama did them.

No it isn't if that is the ONLY way you can defend Trump. I understand that this is a liberal biased forum and as an independent, it gets to me sometimes. But most of the liberals talks about Trump's shortcomings. Most of the people defending him always resort to the "but Obama did...." If you think Trump's conduct is valid, it should be easy to defend them based on their merits. TBH, I get the sense that many of the Trump folks are new here. Because when Obama was POTUS, liberals here would often criticize his missteps. Even among liberals here, there was not a universal "he can do no wrong" sense that you get among Trump supporters now.

That's not true. We have Trump supporters outlining all the positives - a roaring stock market, lowest jobless claims since 1973 (!), a pronounced decrease in illegal crossings, high consumer confidence, his work with Veterans Affairs, the Keystone pipeline, on and on, and the liberals just come on here and say "not true." It is clear that liberals have had hatred so bred into them that that will not acknowledge a single thing that Trump has done correctly. As soon as I hear a liberal say, "he has done nothing right," I know I'm dealing with someone so incapable of objective thinking that I usually disengage at that point.

Well, at least one PP asked what Trump specifically had done to effectuate any of the things you listed given that some of the things are continuing a trend from the last administration. I have yet to see a good answer. So I guess if you want Trump to the credit you think he deserves, you should answer that question.

You people are exhausting! We had more than one person answer the question with a list of several positives that Trump brought about. But you libs are unable to process even a single positive thing. You are too determined to believe that nothing Trump does is good.

That's not true. We have Trump supporters outlining all the positives - a roaring stock market, lowest jobless claims since 1973 (!), a pronounced decrease in illegal crossings, high consumer confidence, his work with Veterans Affairs, the Keystone pipeline, on and on, and the liberals just come on here and say "not true." It is clear that liberals have had hatred so bred into them that that will not acknowledge a single thing that Trump has done correctly. As soon as I hear a liberal say, "he has done nothing right," I know I'm dealing with someone so incapable of objective thinking that I usually disengage at that point.

Your "positives" are not read as positives by everyone (Keystone pipeline, hello?) and even some of them that might be positive can't be attributed to anything Trump has done.

I did give him credit when he worked with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Shumer to replace DACA. But then he went and ruined it.

So, lets hear you address the litany of complaints against him.

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No, a flamboyant Congresswoman made it public. A private phone call. She just couldn’t help herself.

A congresswoman who was basically "an aunt" to the soldier and is very close to him and his family. No one has disputed what was said and Trump is the one who raised it.

Were you this outraged when Patricia Smith addressed the RNC in Cleveland last year?

Where in the heck did you hear that?

It had been widely reported that she was close to the soldier and the widow as a mentor and benefactor.

Trump, 2013: "Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible.” Trump,

2017: "We're not getting the job done. And I'm not going to blame myself, I'll be honest.”

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Wait. Did Patricia Smith make public a private phone call made to another person? I missed it if she did.

The complaint was politicizing the death of service people. Are you denying the GOP did this with Ms. Smith?

I could say the same thing about how Hillary Clinton and the DNC had the gold star parents speak at the DNC.

In response to Trump trashing them. The requested the platform and the DNC obliged.

Anonymous wrote:Wilson knew ahead of time about the call. There is nothing Trump could have said that she would not have twisted.

People are in pain at a time like this. And, yes, they are likely already angry. She capitalized on that.

Why is everyone assuming that the Congresswoman was out to get Trump in this particular situation? And got the widow and the family to go along with it? Come on.

Now granted, they were probably pissed because they realized that Trump's call was a political stunt in and of itself to blunt criticism that he had not reached out. Maybe they did not like being used as a political pawn by Trump. These things can go both ways you know.

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Wait. Did Patricia Smith make public a private phone call made to another person? I missed it if she did.

The complaint was politicizing the death of service people. Are you denying the GOP did this with Ms. Smith?

I could say the same thing about how Hillary Clinton and the DNC had the gold star parents speak at the DNC.

Anonymous wrote:Wilson knew ahead of time about the call. There is nothing Trump could have said that she would not have twisted.

People are in pain at a time like this. And, yes, they are likely already angry. She capitalized on that.

She was in the car with the family because she is close to the family. It is well documented. She wasn't there as a congressman, but as a longtime family friend.

Anonymous wrote:
That's not true. We have Trump supporters outlining all the positives - a roaring stock market, lowest jobless claims since 1973 (!), a pronounced decrease in illegal crossings, high consumer confidence, his work with Veterans Affairs, the Keystone pipeline, on and on, and the liberals just come on here and say "not true." It is clear that liberals have had hatred so bred into them that that will not acknowledge a single thing that Trump has done correctly. As soon as I hear a liberal say, "he has done nothing right," I know I'm dealing with someone so incapable of objective thinking that I usually disengage at that point.

Well, let's revisit the list again.

Roaring stock market: yes and it has been going up for many years under policies from the previous administration. The recent pop is under the promise of tax cuts. Most Americans do no benefit directly or indirectly from a roaring stock market. Just yesterday, the Treasury Secretary said the market would crash without passing tax cuts.

Jobless claims - again, this trend has been positive for several years (despite the injection from Trump that the numbers were fake under the previous administration)

Illegal crossings - again, these have been down for years. Most illegals are here on expired visas.

High consumer confidence: someone posted a chart earlier that debunks this.

Veterans Affairs: This is an Obama holdover and an Obama policy

Keystone: Yes, using Russian Steel is great. How does Keystone benefit the US either directly or indirectly, particularly when Renewables account for more jobs than coal and have less negative impact on the environment?

and on and on.

Please, let's debate this rather than asserting wins and then claiming I am posting half truths.

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Anonymous wrote:

No, a flamboyant Congresswoman made it public. A private phone call. She just couldn’t help herself.

A congresswoman who was basically "an aunt" to the soldier and is very close to him and his family. No one has disputed what was said and Trump is the one who raised it.

Were you this outraged when Patricia Smith addressed the RNC in Cleveland last year?

Where in the heck did you hear that?

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Anonymous wrote:And now Kelly jumps in publicly.

Sounds like Kelly tried to prep Trump for the call and remind him that Johnson was doing what he wanted to do when he died, and Trump kind of botched the execution in a big way. Not sure why he's complaining about the Congresswoman though. She was there, and has a right to say how Trump's insensitive words were interpreted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/us/politics/john-kelly-son-trump.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=65972443&pgtype=article

Why is he complaining about the Congresswoman?
It was horribly insensitive and tactless of her to go public with the phone call. She politicized it. It was a private call and it was not her place to make it public.
If anyone knows... he does. He has been there - or didn’t you know he had a son killed in Afghanistan?

Yes, that fact had not escaped me. I bet no one said to Kelly: "your son knew what he signed up for."

Not in those exact words, but the meaning was the same: "Your son chose to sign up....WANTED to defend his country.....and died surrounded by his best friends, and doing exactly what he wanted to do." In the meantime, all this is a diversionary tactic to hide the successful operation in Syria. (And imagine how much worse the widow feels, with the Congresswoman creating a circus around this. FOR SHAME!!)

And if Trump had said those words in that way, maybe he wouldn't have made a widow who was 6 months pregnant cry. He's not good at empathy and should stop doing these calls.

First people were mad that he wasn't doing the calls. Now they're mad that he is. I don't like the guy, but it's clear the press and the establishment has an anti-Trump agenda.

How often have we heard about Trump not promptly fulfilling his promise to give $25k to a gold star family? Yet, when Obama promised money to the family of an American killed by ISIS and subsequently forgot to pay up, it was barely a blip on the radar.

http://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/us-hostage-kayla-muellers-foundation-finally-receives-obama/story?id=43215918

I was willing to engage until you brought up the "go-to strategy" of comparing him to Obama. He is not Obama and he should be forced to stand on his own and be accoutable on his own. I do not criticize him based on what Obama so I always cringe when people defend him with "What about Obama..." It is like Trump and his supporters are more obsessed with him than Obama supporters ever were. And that obsession is not good for our country.

DP, but it is very valid to point out that liberals are criticizing Trump for the very things that they were fine with when Obama did them.

No it isn't if that is the ONLY way you can defend Trump. I understand that this is a liberal biased forum and as an independent, it gets to me sometimes. But most of the liberals talks about Trump's shortcomings. Most of the people defending him always resort to the "but Obama did...." If you think Trump's conduct is valid, it should be easy to defend them based on their merits. TBH, I get the sense that many of the Trump folks are new here. Because when Obama was POTUS, liberals here would often criticize his missteps. Even among liberals here, there was not a universal "he can do no wrong" sense that you get among Trump supporters now.

That's not true. We have Trump supporters outlining all the positives - a roaring stock market, lowest jobless claims since 1973 (!), a pronounced decrease in illegal crossings, high consumer confidence, his work with Veterans Affairs, the Keystone pipeline, on and on, and the liberals just come on here and say "not true." It is clear that liberals have had hatred so bred into them that that will not acknowledge a single thing that Trump has done correctly. As soon as I hear a liberal say, "he has done nothing right," I know I'm dealing with someone so incapable of objective thinking that I usually disengage at that point.

Well, at least one PP asked what Trump specifically had done to effectuate any of the things you listed given that some of the things are continuing a trend from the last administration. I have yet to see a good answer. So I guess if you want Trump to the credit you think he deserves, you should answer that question.

Wilson knew ahead of time about the call. There is nothing Trump could have said that she would not have twisted.

People are in pain at a time like this. And, yes, they are likely already angry. She capitalized on that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, a flamboyant Congresswoman made it public. A private phone call. She just couldn’t help herself.

A congresswoman who was basically "an aunt" to the soldier and is very close to him and his family. No one has disputed what was said and Trump is the one who raised it.

Were you this outraged when Patricia Smith addressed the RNC in Cleveland last year?

Wait. Did Patricia Smith make public a private phone call made to another person? I missed it if she did.

So that is your beef. POTUS fvcked up a consolation call to the family of a man who died serving him and your complaint is that the call was made public? The fact that he screwed it up is fine, but the fact that we found out how bad he screwed it up is THE problem? Y'all are hilarious.

Anonymous wrote:

Wait. Did Patricia Smith make public a private phone call made to another person? I missed it if she did.

The complaint was politicizing the death of service people. Are you denying the GOP did this with Ms. Smith?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And now Kelly jumps in publicly.

Sounds like Kelly tried to prep Trump for the call and remind him that Johnson was doing what he wanted to do when he died, and Trump kind of botched the execution in a big way. Not sure why he's complaining about the Congresswoman though. She was there, and has a right to say how Trump's insensitive words were interpreted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/us/politics/john-kelly-son-trump.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=65972443&pgtype=article

Why is he complaining about the Congresswoman?
It was horribly insensitive and tactless of her to go public with the phone call. She politicized it. It was a private call and it was not her place to make it public.
If anyone knows... he does. He has been there - or didn’t you know he had a son killed in Afghanistan?

Yes, that fact had not escaped me. I bet no one said to Kelly: "your son knew what he signed up for."

Not in those exact words, but the meaning was the same: "Your son chose to sign up....WANTED to defend his country.....and died surrounded by his best friends, and doing exactly what he wanted to do." In the meantime, all this is a diversionary tactic to hide the successful operation in Syria. (And imagine how much worse the widow feels, with the Congresswoman creating a circus around this. FOR SHAME!!)

And if Trump had said those words in that way, maybe he wouldn't have made a widow who was 6 months pregnant cry. He's not good at empathy and should stop doing these calls.

First people were mad that he wasn't doing the calls. Now they're mad that he is. I don't like the guy, but it's clear the press and the establishment has an anti-Trump agenda.

How often have we heard about Trump not promptly fulfilling his promise to give $25k to a gold star family? Yet, when Obama promised money to the family of an American killed by ISIS and subsequently forgot to pay up, it was barely a blip on the radar.

http://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/us-hostage-kayla-muellers-foundation-finally-receives-obama/story?id=43215918

I was willing to engage until you brought up the "go-to strategy" of comparing him to Obama. He is not Obama and he should be forced to stand on his own and be accoutable on his own. I do not criticize him based on what Obama so I always cringe when people defend him with "What about Obama..." It is like Trump and his supporters are more obsessed with him than Obama supporters ever were. And that obsession is not good for our country.

DP, but it is very valid to point out that liberals are criticizing Trump for the very things that they were fine with when Obama did them.

No it isn't if that is the ONLY way you can defend Trump. I understand that this is a liberal biased forum and as an independent, it gets to me sometimes. But most of the liberals talks about Trump's shortcomings. Most of the people defending him always resort to the "but Obama did...." If you think Trump's conduct is valid, it should be easy to defend them based on their merits. TBH, I get the sense that many of the Trump folks are new here. Because when Obama was POTUS, liberals here would often criticize his missteps. Even among liberals here, there was not a universal "he can do no wrong" sense that you get among Trump supporters now.

That's not true. We have Trump supporters outlining all the positives - a roaring stock market, lowest jobless claims since 1973 (!), a pronounced decrease in illegal crossings, high consumer confidence, his work with Veterans Affairs, the Keystone pipeline, on and on, and the liberals just come on here and say "not true." It is clear that liberals have had hatred so bred into them that that will not acknowledge a single thing that Trump has done correctly. As soon as I hear a liberal say, "he has done nothing right," I know I'm dealing with someone so incapable of objective thinking that I usually disengage at that point.