Anonymous
Post 01/11/2016 15:55     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:12:45 and 12:40 show this is not just innocent curiosity or legitimate concern about hijab.

I leave you to keep filling these pages with more public encouragement to hate Muslims and Islam.

As if there wasn't enough divisiveness and hatred to go around...

Peace!


I think the sheer length of this thread shows how many people are genuinely interested in Islam and are trying to answer their questions about it. I have been impressed by a lot of different pps' knowledge and have learned a lot. This is genuinely one of the most educational threads I have read on this site.


I am one of the contributors, and I thank you for this comment. I like that the thread attracted a variety of views and that while people had strong opinions for the most part they backed them up and did not resort to name calling or other low forms of argumentation.

After seeing how an Islam thread did on the political forum, it is good to see that civil discussion on a controversial subject can be had on this forum.


I think the other thread went that way because of the topic: mass sexual assault by a large and specific group of men.. It would have gone in a similar way had that large group of similar men been an all white fraternity convention or Nascar event by a bunch of American men from Alabama. I know I am very angered by that other topic and also more than a little offended by how it was handled overall by the moderator but this one is a very different type of topic and an interesting and intellectually challenging discussion especially in terms of the many diverging opinions. I would guess that many of the women on the other thread who are also following this one feel the same way as I do.


Methinks you are nervous the moderator will shut this thread down too, and so you're trying to prempt it by distinguishing that thread from this one.

As a Muslim, I find this thread dripping of hate also. Despite repeatedly telling you reasons why many Muslim women may prefer hijab, you insist they are illegitimate reasons. Who are you to decide what is legitimate for us?

Utterly offensive, disrespectful, and indicative of hate for our personal choices.


I too am sorry you feel this way.

I've seen a few posts that are mocking or angry, and these seem to be from the same 1-2 posters. These posts also seem about on par with the posts calling Western women "disgusting" sluts with STDs. Tit for tat, maybe.

The majority of posts, however, disagree with you about whether hijab is required in the Quran and what it represents, all the while defending your right to wear it. We are entitled to our views, just as you are. There's no law that says the hijab wearer gets to define it while the beholder isn't allowed to have an opinion.

Disagreement also shouldn't be confused with hate.

Anonymous
Post 01/11/2016 13:43     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:Not at all. You wish for us to think that way so you can continue to perpetuate hatred and divisiveness. Islam permits Muslim men to marry Jews and Christians. If their religions don't require head covering, and they are whores as a result as viewed by our God, why would marriage to whored be permitted?


But the rationale for this undermines the point you're trying to make. In marriage the man is in charge, so the non-Muslim wife's "erroneous" beliefs about religion or sexuality won't play a role the family's values. The corollary to this is that Muslim women aren't allowed to marry non-Muslim men--he has to convert or the marriage doesn't take place.

Anyway, a PP all but said that many Western women are STD-ridden teen moms. This thinking is certainly out there. Why? My guess is that easy defenses are made from easy stereotypes.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2016 13:32     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:12:45 and 12:40 show this is not just innocent curiosity or legitimate concern about hijab.

I leave you to keep filling these pages with more public encouragement to hate Muslims and Islam.

As if there wasn't enough divisiveness and hatred to go around...

Peace!


I think the sheer length of this thread shows how many people are genuinely interested in Islam and are trying to answer their questions about it. I have been impressed by a lot of different pps' knowledge and have learned a lot. This is genuinely one of the most educational threads I have read on this site.


I am one of the contributors, and I thank you for this comment. I like that the thread attracted a variety of views and that while people had strong opinions for the most part they backed them up and did not resort to name calling or other low forms of argumentation.

After seeing how an Islam thread did on the political forum, it is good to see that civil discussion on a controversial subject can be had on this forum.


I think the other thread went that way because of the topic: mass sexual assault by a large and specific group of men.. It would have gone in a similar way had that large group of similar men been an all white fraternity convention or Nascar event by a bunch of American men from Alabama. I know I am very angered by that other topic and also more than a little offended by how it was handled overall by the moderator but this one is a very different type of topic and an interesting and intellectually challenging discussion especially in terms of the many diverging opinions. I would guess that many of the women on the other thread who are also following this one feel the same way as I do.


Methinks you are nervous the moderator will shut this thread down too, and so you're trying to prempt it by distinguishing that thread from this one.

As a Muslim, I find this thread dripping of hate also. Despite repeatedly telling you reasons why many Muslim women may prefer hijab, you insist they are illegitimate reasons. Who are you to decide what is legitimate for us?

Utterly offensive, disrespectful, and indicative of hate for our personal choices.


I have only posted in this thread twice, and one was this one you quoted. Neither of my posts were hateful. I have only read the beginning and the end so I can't speak to those part but in tye parts I did read no one was dropping f-bombs at one another so yes, to me, this thread seems more respectful.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2016 13:19     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Not at all. You wish for us to think that way so you can continue to perpetuate hatred and divisiveness. Islam permits Muslim men to marry Jews and Christians. If their religions don't require head covering, and they are whores as a result as viewed by our God, why would marriage to whored be permitted?
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2016 12:49     Subject: Re:Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Wearing the hijab is a choice....a choice to tell the rest of the world that you think women that don't wear one are whores.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2016 11:50     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:12:45 and 12:40 show this is not just innocent curiosity or legitimate concern about hijab.

I leave you to keep filling these pages with more public encouragement to hate Muslims and Islam.

As if there wasn't enough divisiveness and hatred to go around...

Peace!


I think the sheer length of this thread shows how many people are genuinely interested in Islam and are trying to answer their questions about it. I have been impressed by a lot of different pps' knowledge and have learned a lot. This is genuinely one of the most educational threads I have read on this site.


I am one of the contributors, and I thank you for this comment. I like that the thread attracted a variety of views and that while people had strong opinions for the most part they backed them up and did not resort to name calling or other low forms of argumentation.

After seeing how an Islam thread did on the political forum, it is good to see that civil discussion on a controversial subject can be had on this forum.


I think the other thread went that way because of the topic: mass sexual assault by a large and specific group of men.. It would have gone in a similar way had that large group of similar men been an all white fraternity convention or Nascar event by a bunch of American men from Alabama. I know I am very angered by that other topic and also more than a little offended by how it was handled overall by the moderator but this one is a very different type of topic and an interesting and intellectually challenging discussion especially in terms of the many diverging opinions. I would guess that many of the women on the other thread who are also following this one feel the same way as I do.


Methinks you are nervous the moderator will shut this thread down too, and so you're trying to prempt it by distinguishing that thread from this one.

As a Muslim, I find this thread dripping of hate also. Despite repeatedly telling you reasons why many Muslim women may prefer hijab, you insist they are illegitimate reasons. Who are you to decide what is legitimate for us?

Utterly offensive, disrespectful, and indicative of hate for our personal choices.


I am sorry you feel this way. Many PPs have said they would actively defend the right of a woman to wear a hijab even though they do not believe Islam requires it or that the Quran even speaks to it. I do not believe that is hate for personal choices.

However, it is also clear that a number of PPs find it offensive that Islam, traditionally viewed as one of the world's three great monotheistic religions, has been hijacked by a groups that have reduced its greatness to hijab wearing.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2016 11:47     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
It doesn't stop at hijab. It spreads and spreads until even smiling too much is deemed inappropriate. This is the inevitable result:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/25/books/as-if-the-mullahs-were-all-young-at-heart.html

Lipstick Jihad is real.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2016 11:42     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why are you guys so concerned with Muslims women wearing headscarf? Do you fear them? I believe it's their rights to wear whatever they want.

Why are they considered backward when they choose to cover themselves. Covering your body with less and less clothing are backwards to me because it seems that people wants to be like in cavemen yesteryear.

Just because these Muslim women against hijab, doesn't mean that they representing other muslims's opinion in why they wear hijab.

We should be judged by our character and ability, and not by the way we clothes.



If only it were a choice for most women. But most are forced by the men in their lives to wear it.


Speak truth to power!
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2016 11:39     Subject: Re:Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I a muslim woman who posted early on in this thread. I have to say the self-righteousness of the hijab defender(s) is really off-putting. I believe in tolerance and free-will, and will always defend the right of any woman to wear one. However, as many in this thread have pointed out, it has become a symbol of a doctrinaire, oppressive, intolerant version of Islam that many of us liberal Muslims abhor.

Your experience is important to share here.


I agree. While I too will defend the right for a woman to wear a hijab, the responses we got as to why a PP wore one were disappointingly superficial. But perhaps that is because there are few if any deep reasons for wearing a hijab.


I find no compulsion to wear one because it is not in the Qur'an but, will defend a woman's right to wear a veil no matter what religion she is. To me it represents support of a regime and form of government that subjugates woman since it is used as a political tool to do just that in some countries. These counties have changed what the hijab represents, imho.


Fourth poster who thanks the top PP! I too found responses along the lines of "women should cover because men are lustful" and "Western women are all promiscuous with STDs" to be illogical and therefore unhelpful. I'm one of the posters who's read the Quran and didn't see head coverings (or chadors, burquas or niqabs) in it, and I agree that the veil has become a tool.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2016 11:07     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:12:45 and 12:40 show this is not just innocent curiosity or legitimate concern about hijab.

I leave you to keep filling these pages with more public encouragement to hate Muslims and Islam.

As if there wasn't enough divisiveness and hatred to go around...

Peace!


I think the sheer length of this thread shows how many people are genuinely interested in Islam and are trying to answer their questions about it. I have been impressed by a lot of different pps' knowledge and have learned a lot. This is genuinely one of the most educational threads I have read on this site.


I am one of the contributors, and I thank you for this comment. I like that the thread attracted a variety of views and that while people had strong opinions for the most part they backed them up and did not resort to name calling or other low forms of argumentation.

After seeing how an Islam thread did on the political forum, it is good to see that civil discussion on a controversial subject can be had on this forum.


I think the other thread went that way because of the topic: mass sexual assault by a large and specific group of men.. It would have gone in a similar way had that large group of similar men been an all white fraternity convention or Nascar event by a bunch of American men from Alabama. I know I am very angered by that other topic and also more than a little offended by how it was handled overall by the moderator but this one is a very different type of topic and an interesting and intellectually challenging discussion especially in terms of the many diverging opinions. I would guess that many of the women on the other thread who are also following this one feel the same way as I do.


Methinks you are nervous the moderator will shut this thread down too, and so you're trying to prempt it by distinguishing that thread from this one.

As a Muslim, I find this thread dripping of hate also. Despite repeatedly telling you reasons why many Muslim women may prefer hijab, you insist they are illegitimate reasons. Who are you to decide what is legitimate for us?

Utterly offensive, disrespectful, and indicative of hate for our personal choices.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2016 08:56     Subject: Re:Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I a muslim woman who posted early on in this thread. I have to say the self-righteousness of the hijab defender(s) is really off-putting. I believe in tolerance and free-will, and will always defend the right of any woman to wear one. However, as many in this thread have pointed out, it has become a symbol of a doctrinaire, oppressive, intolerant version of Islam that many of us liberal Muslims abhor.

Your experience is important to share here.


I agree. While I too will defend the right for a woman to wear a hijab, the responses we got as to why a PP wore one were disappointingly superficial. But perhaps that is because there are few if any deep reasons for wearing a hijab.


I find no compulsion to wear one because it is not in the Qur'an but, will defend a woman's right to wear a veil no matter what religion she is. To me it represents support of a regime and form of government that subjugates woman since it is used as a political tool to do just that in some countries. These counties have changed what the hijab represents, imho.
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2016 23:47     Subject: Re:Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I a muslim woman who posted early on in this thread. I have to say the self-righteousness of the hijab defender(s) is really off-putting. I believe in tolerance and free-will, and will always defend the right of any woman to wear one. However, as many in this thread have pointed out, it has become a symbol of a doctrinaire, oppressive, intolerant version of Islam that many of us liberal Muslims abhor.

Your experience is important to share here.


I agree. While I too will defend the right for a woman to wear a hijab, the responses we got as to why a PP wore one were disappointingly superficial. But perhaps that is because there are few if any deep reasons for wearing a hijab.
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2016 23:43     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:12:45 and 12:40 show this is not just innocent curiosity or legitimate concern about hijab.

I leave you to keep filling these pages with more public encouragement to hate Muslims and Islam.

As if there wasn't enough divisiveness and hatred to go around...

Peace!


I think the sheer length of this thread shows how many people are genuinely interested in Islam and are trying to answer their questions about it. I have been impressed by a lot of different pps' knowledge and have learned a lot. This is genuinely one of the most educational threads I have read on this site.


I am one of the contributors, and I thank you for this comment. I like that the thread attracted a variety of views and that while people had strong opinions for the most part they backed them up and did not resort to name calling or other low forms of argumentation.

After seeing how an Islam thread did on the political forum, it is good to see that civil discussion on a controversial subject can be had on this forum.


I think the other thread went that way because of the topic: mass sexual assault by a large and specific group of men.. It would have gone in a similar way had that large group of similar men been an all white fraternity convention or Nascar event by a bunch of American men from Alabama. I know I am very angered by that other topic and also more than a little offended by how it was handled overall by the moderator but this one is a very different type of topic and an interesting and intellectually challenging discussion especially in terms of the many diverging opinions. I would guess that many of the women on the other thread who are also following this one feel the same way as I do.


I ws a little surprised by how the moderator handled it as well, but it did get a bit ugly towards the end.
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2016 22:35     Subject: Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:12:45 and 12:40 show this is not just innocent curiosity or legitimate concern about hijab.

I leave you to keep filling these pages with more public encouragement to hate Muslims and Islam.

As if there wasn't enough divisiveness and hatred to go around...

Peace!


I think the sheer length of this thread shows how many people are genuinely interested in Islam and are trying to answer their questions about it. I have been impressed by a lot of different pps' knowledge and have learned a lot. This is genuinely one of the most educational threads I have read on this site.


I am one of the contributors, and I thank you for this comment. I like that the thread attracted a variety of views and that while people had strong opinions for the most part they backed them up and did not resort to name calling or other low forms of argumentation.

After seeing how an Islam thread did on the political forum, it is good to see that civil discussion on a controversial subject can be had on this forum.


I think the other thread went that way because of the topic: mass sexual assault by a large and specific group of men.. It would have gone in a similar way had that large group of similar men been an all white fraternity convention or Nascar event by a bunch of American men from Alabama. I know I am very angered by that other topic and also more than a little offended by how it was handled overall by the moderator but this one is a very different type of topic and an interesting and intellectually challenging discussion especially in terms of the many diverging opinions. I would guess that many of the women on the other thread who are also following this one feel the same way as I do.
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2016 22:33     Subject: Re:Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam
Anonymous wrote:I a muslim woman who posted early on in this thread. I have to say the self-righteousness of the hijab defender(s) is really off-putting. I believe in tolerance and free-will, and will always defend the right of any woman to wear one. However, as many in this thread have pointed out, it has become a symbol of a doctrinaire, oppressive, intolerant version of Islam that many of us liberal Muslims abhor.

Your experience is important to share here.