It solves the problem of states having a variety of different standards of varying quality.

That's a straw man. It really has no bearing--lack of standards is not the problem.

So your criticism of the Common Core standards is that there is this one kindergarten standard that you think should be a first-grade standard, and also the Common Core standards are fixed in stone and can't be revised?

The Common Core standards are not fixed in stone and can be revised.

Hallelujah! So, there are things that need to be fixed. Give us a moratorium on testing so we won't stress out while we're fixing the standards. The tests won't be valid if the standards are not right.

Anonymous wrote:

This is the real problem with Common Core, as I understand from reading this boards (as I don't yet have a kid old enough to get these word problems). I have seen many problems where there are multiple answers, but the assumption is that there is only one answer.

This. I teach in Virginia, but because of the proliferation of CC materials for sale, I work with a Pearson computer program (purchased by my district) that is based on CC standards. There are often problems where two answers are really correct, but one is somehow "better". Sometimes the "better" one is a pretty big judgment call (too close to call really). I understand that they are trying to promote "critical thinking" by doing this, but it is very confusing for many students---because the question is asking for "the answer". Sometimes I don't get the answer right! My belief is that critical thinking is something that you do in a different context (not on a multiple choice test). We read books and have discussions and put forth our opinions and support them, etc. A multiple choice test is just really not a good vehicle or maybe the students just aren't used to this type of test yet (and some of the questions are just not "good"). These are even more reasons for a moratorium on testing. Students will get poor scores just because they are not used to this style of test. Test scores may increase as years go on and then the test authors can say "Success"!!!

Great post. I notice all the Common Core supporters gloss right over this fact. Thanks for sharing your REAL-LIFE experience.

Hey, I know. Every day I wonder if I am becoming a Republican.

I do think I understand the Republican (not Tea Party) thinking on this though and that's not a bad thing. They have some very good arguments. We can find common ground and we have to find common ground or none of this will work.

I am the product of a Republican father and a Democratic mother. They always cancelled each others votes. I don't really care if my allies are "the likes of Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz". This is not about joining a club. I like to think of issues independently. It may work out better if more people did that. That's why I hate your "Obamacore" excuse and now "the likes of Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz" statement is turning me off as well. People like you are not helping us get to a solution. Your partisanship and passions are getting in the way.


It's not an excuse. It's a description of reality. That is the reality. I agree that it's not how the world should be, but it is how the world is.

Also, if it doesn't bother you that your allies are Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz, then it certainly doesn't bother me.

Shouldn't we be trying to go in the direction of how the world should be? Or have you given up? I'm a teacher. We don't give up. "Never, never, never give up" (Winston Churchill). You've been with the data too long.

Tell me again what the problem is that Common Core solves.



It solves the problem of states having a variety of different standards of varying quality.

Okay. But how does that solve a "problem" for an individual parent, student, or teacher who is trying to support this? It doesn't speak to them. Many of them are in schools where either the standard of varying quality does not apply (the kids are in AAP, they live in a middle class community where schools are monitored locally and not necessarily by state standards, take AP and IB where standards are determined nationally already, etc.) or the standards are already too high and they keep failing because the parents are not "available" to help and are not engaged in a civic manner (don't speak English, work 2 jobs, cannot help with homework, do not have resources to use tutors, etc.). Explain how having the same standards across states is going to really make a difference on the ground if the other problems are not solved. What kind of a difference are you expecting? Or are they only going to be used to fire teachers through the testing/evaluation mandate and that is what you are hoping will make the difference? Will states who have lots of "failures" be raising the salaries of teachers in order to attract better ones (even though they are probably the states that lack money)? Will the feds be pumping money into those states in bigger amounts? What is the long view here?

Anonymous wrote:

The question was, "Why are states dropping out?" The answer is, "Because it's "Obamacore"." That doesn't mean that every opponent of the Common Core standards hates Obama and believes that he's a Communist Muslim born in Kenya. All it means is that the states are dropping out because it's "Obamacore". Your political allies in the fight against the Common Core are the likes of Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz

Statements like these--which happen not to be true--lead me to believe that the poster only supports Common Core because Obama supports it. Kind of ironic.

Google "Obamacore", if you think it's not true.

Also look at the politics of the states that original adopted the Common Core standards and are now seriously considering disadopting them.

The question was, "Why are states dropping out?" The answer is, "Because it's "Obamacore"." That doesn't mean that every opponent of the Common Core standards hates Obama and believes that he's a Communist Muslim born in Kenya. All it means is that the states are dropping out because it's "Obamacore". Your political allies in the fight against the Common Core are the likes of Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz

Statements like these--which happen not to be true--lead me to believe that the poster only supports Common Core because Obama supports it. Kind of ironic.

Anonymous wrote:

Your big objection is that it should be a first-grade standard, not a kindergarten standard?

Actually, this is very important. The early grades are the ones that the CC authors should focus on getting right, if any. If you start off wrong, it's a problem. The gap widens as you go through the grades. You want to start in the right place at least. New teachers who are reading these standards will not know there is a problem (or think they need to follow what the standard says).

The process matters because there is no "perfect" in this endeavor and there should be a mix of PhDs and those with real, practical experience making the standards. Otherwise, it's like the architect not listening to the problems that the construction workers are having in building to the design. Anyone who has ever built something knows that unforeseen things happen that need to be changed.

So your criticism of the Common Core standards is that there is this one kindergarten standard that you think should be a first-grade standard, and also the Common Core standards are fixed in stone and can't be revised?

The Common Core standards are not fixed in stone and can be revised.

Anonymous wrote:

It solves the problem of states having a variety of different standards of varying quality.

Now, is that the biggest problem in education? Far from it. But the US refuses to address the big problems. We don't want to address income inequality, we don't want to address a lack of social supports, we don't want to address immigration, we don't want to address teacher pay and teacher training, we don't want to address disparate local school funding. What does that leave? The Common Core standards -- and apparently even that is too much.

No, the CC is too little and costs too much.

Do you have any useful policy suggestions for getting the US to actually address the big problems? I would love to hear them.

Anonymous wrote:

The question was, "Why are states dropping out?" The answer is, "Because it's "Obamacore"." That doesn't mean that every opponent of the Common Core standards hates Obama and believes that he's a Communist Muslim born in Kenya. All it means is that the states are dropping out because it's "Obamacore". Your political allies in the fight against the Common Core are the likes of Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz.

Hey, I know. Every day I wonder if I am becoming a Republican.

I do think I understand the Republican (not Tea Party) thinking on this though and that's not a bad thing. They have some very good arguments. We can find common ground and we have to find common ground or none of this will work.

I am the product of a Republican father and a Democratic mother. They always cancelled each others votes. I don't really care if my allies are "the likes of Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz". This is not about joining a club. I like to think of issues independently. It may work out better if more people did that. That's why I hate your "Obamacore" excuse and now "the likes of Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz" statement is turning me off as well. People like you are not helping us get to a solution. Your partisanship and passions are getting in the way.

It's not an excuse. It's a description of reality. That is the reality. I agree that it's not how the world should be, but it is how the world is.

Also, if it doesn't bother you that your allies are Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz, then it certainly doesn't bother me.

It solves the problem of states having a variety of different standards of varying quality.

Now, is that the biggest problem in education? Far from it. But the US refuses to address the big problems. We don't want to address income inequality, we don't want to address a lack of social supports, we don't want to address immigration, we don't want to address teacher pay and teacher training, we don't want to address disparate local school funding. What does that leave? The Common Core standards -- and apparently even that is too much.

No, the CC is too little and costs too much.

This is the real problem with Common Core, as I understand from reading this boards (as I don't yet have a kid old enough to get these word problems). I have seen many problems where there are multiple answers, but the assumption is that there is only one answer.

This. I teach in Virginia, but because of the proliferation of CC materials for sale, I work with a Pearson computer program (purchased by my district) that is based on CC standards. There are often problems where two answers are really correct, but one is somehow "better". Sometimes the "better" one is a pretty big judgment call (too close to call really). I understand that they are trying to promote "critical thinking" by doing this, but it is very confusing for many students---because the question is asking for "the answer". Sometimes I don't get the answer right! My belief is that critical thinking is something that you do in a different context (not on a multiple choice test). We read books and have discussions and put forth our opinions and support them, etc. A multiple choice test is just really not a good vehicle or maybe the students just aren't used to this type of test yet (and some of the questions are just not "good"). These are even more reasons for a moratorium on testing. Students will get poor scores just because they are not used to this style of test. Test scores may increase as years go on and then the test authors can say "Success"!!!

The question was, "Why are states dropping out?" The answer is, "Because it's "Obamacore"." That doesn't mean that every opponent of the Common Core standards hates Obama and believes that he's a Communist Muslim born in Kenya. All it means is that the states are dropping out because it's "Obamacore". Your political allies in the fight against the Common Core are the likes of Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz.

Hey, I know. Every day I wonder if I am becoming a Republican.

I do think I understand the Republican (not Tea Party) thinking on this though and that's not a bad thing. They have some very good arguments. We can find common ground and we have to find common ground or none of this will work.

I am the product of a Republican father and a Democratic mother. They always cancelled each others votes. I don't really care if my allies are "the likes of Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz". This is not about joining a club. I like to think of issues independently. It may work out better if more people did that. That's why I hate your "Obamacore" excuse and now "the likes of Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz" statement is turning me off as well. People like you are not helping us get to a solution. Your partisanship and passions are getting in the way.

Your big objection is that it should be a first-grade standard, not a kindergarten standard?

Actually, this is very important. The early grades are the ones that the CC authors should focus on getting right, if any. If you start off wrong, it's a problem. The gap widens as you go through the grades. You want to start in the right place at least. New teachers who are reading these standards will not know there is a problem (or think they need to follow what the standard says).

The process matters because there is no "perfect" in this endeavor and there should be a mix of PhDs and those with real, practical experience making the standards. Otherwise, it's like the architect not listening to the problems that the construction workers are having in building to the design. Anyone who has ever built something knows that unforeseen things happen that need to be changed.

I'm not against national standards, but in the US you've got to give more flexibility and provide paths. We have to stop kicking ourselves down and bring our students up. All the tests are demoralizing to students and communities. They are looking for real solutions. Show how kids can be successful. Don't show them more failure. Also, when teachers have nothing but penalties when they struggle, it's very disheartening. Who wants a job where they are asked to do more than they physically can and then they get beaten down for it.

The other thing that happens when the feds put in all these mandates is that there is little time left for "in the trenches creative problem solving". By this I mean that everyone is directed at working with whatever the feds are promoting and concern is all around those things. This leaves no time for teachers who have great ideas to develop them for their own students. Those ideas could be the best ones because they are based on the needs of the students directly in front of them at any given time. Teaching has to be about the students any given teacher has at the moment (and this is the exciting part about teaching; no two classes are the same throughout an entire career). With all the PLC meetings, goal setting based on new standards, etc. there is little time for this creative process to happen. Teachers have lots of ideas, but there is no time for them to develop them into real classroom instruction. This is especially problematic for young teachers who are just starting to develop their teaching styles. My big fear is that the teachers who have entered in the post NCLB period are going to remain "paint by numbers" teachers because they have never experienced the art of teaching. With all the tests and data, it's all about the science now. It is so sad.