Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread, and actually met a woman wearing a niqab today. I went to Costco after work and got stuck in a line where there was a price check/food stamp issue that lasted for what seemed like forever. The Muslim lady behind me was really nice. We didn't want to get out of the line and go into another really long line, because - murphy's law dictates when we do that the issue will be resolved and we will be stuck in a new crazy long line. I was a bit scared of talking to her, but when I struck up a conversation about how I always seem to get in the line that has "problems", she was super nice. It was a bit strange only seeing her eyes, and she had a small daughter also wearing a veil but we were stuck in the line for a long time so we talked a lot.

I felt weird that the things I were buying were bacon, dog treats, and alcohol, thinking she would judge me, but she was really cool. This is not a troll post. After talking to her for a while the veil didn't really make a difference, I could judge her personality from our interaction. It has made me feel differently about my previous thoughts on niquab.

I still don't really understand it, being an atheist and not liking religion very much, but it definitely bothers me a lot less after interacting with a woman who wears it.

I'm glad you had this experience and are sharing it. I think usually we are scared of what we do not now. I can understand how the niqab can be intimidating, and many would be surprised that under the veil,is just another woman who is not that much different from us. The more these conversations happen, I think, the better it will be for all of us. We are not that much different after all. Oh and don't worry about what you had in your cart, she would not judge you for that, just like you didn't judge her for her niqab.

I don't like the niqab (or the burka, where you don't even see the woman's eyes), I am not scared by it and I am not intimidated by it. I don't like what it symbolizes, the need for a woman to cover her body completely leaving just two pupils out so she can see obstacles, so men cannot see her. all the explanations I have read about it (are frankly the same explanations are given for the need of separate areas in buses or sidewalk in ultra orthodox areas in Israel, so this issue is not limited to Islam, although with the iqab is more visible) are that no part of the body of the woman should be seen by men who are not her relatives so she cannot "provoque" impure sexual thoughts and desires in random men. even women who wore it and said they did it willingly and happily said that they felt free because they could go aroung without sexually arousing men or getting unwanted sexual advances. I find this profoundly wrong and sad. as we all know, there is absolutely nothing in the Quran that says that women should weak a niqab, so wearing is not a religious requirement. it is not by chance that the countries where the niqab originated in the Arabia peninsula are places where women have no voice, cannot drive, do not leave their homes without a man, have very limited opportunities to work. I am not surprised that under the niqab the poster found a nice woman like her (and found very funnny that the poster was grateful to the niqab clad woman for being "cool" about her bying pork and alcohol - I wonder why she thought the woman was going to judge her). the poster should have asked the niqab clad woman if she waws working and what job. a trial attorney? a federal judge? a surgeon? an airline pilot? even an airline hostess (none of the hostesses of the Saudi Arabia airline I saw at Dulles wore a niqab, they all had a veil on the hair, but otherwise they w3ere normally dressed)? or a mailwoman, the one who walks around your neighborhood putting the mail in mailboxes, or the fed ex person who rings at your door so you can sign for the package? or the metro bus driver, your child school teacher, the one who spends her day with him and his classmates every day and see you at the parents-teacher conference or during the field trip you chaperone. I bet that nice woman is none of these things. failing to see that a hijab does not prevent a woman from having a normal life, but a burka does is disingenous. this has nothing to do with fear of the unknown, this has to do with recognizing reality.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swedish-american here. I think it is crossing the line to display these images publicly. I am not muslim--but I find such disregard for their religion and culture highly offensive. The French people are completely tone deaf and arrogant wrt to their treatment of minorities in their countries. They are hiding behind the cloak of "free press" and it is outrageous. And yes, I'm aware that Scandinavian countries are as bad on this issue if not worse.

I completely agree. My brother is living in Paris right now and I am scared to death for him. He has a very obvious Muslim name and there is currently a lot of backlash because of the Charlie Hebdo thing. Yesterday, in France a pregnant Muslim woman was attacked by men who pulled her hijab off asking her to take that *** off and beat her up while she was screaming that she was pregnant, she lost the baby. Mosques were also vandalized along with Arab businesses and a car belonging to a middle eastern family was shot at. Unless we start having honest conversations about the underlying issues, this will never get resolved.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread, and actually met a woman wearing a niqab today. I went to Costco after work and got stuck in a line where there was a price check/food stamp issue that lasted for what seemed like forever. The Muslim lady behind me was really nice. We didn't want to get out of the line and go into another really long line, because - murphy's law dictates when we do that the issue will be resolved and we will be stuck in a new crazy long line. I was a bit scared of talking to her, but when I struck up a conversation about how I always seem to get in the line that has "problems", she was super nice. It was a bit strange only seeing her eyes, and she had a small daughter also wearing a veil but we were stuck in the line for a long time so we talked a lot.

I felt weird that the things I were buying were bacon, dog treats, and alcohol, thinking she would judge me, but she was really cool. This is not a troll post. After talking to her for a while the veil didn't really make a difference, I could judge her personality from our interaction. It has made me feel differently about my previous thoughts on niquab.

I still don't really understand it, being an atheist and not liking religion very much, but it definitely bothers me a lot less after interacting with a woman who wears it.

I'm glad you had this experience and are sharing it. I think usually we are scared of what we do not now. I can understand how the niqab can be intimidating, and many would be surprised that under the veil,is just another woman who is not that much different from us. The more these conversations happen, I think, the better it will be for all of us. We are not that much different after all. Oh and don't worry about what you had in your cart, she would not judge you for that, just like you didn't judge her for her niqab.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swedish-american here. I think it is crossing the line to display these images publicly. I am not muslim--but I find such disregard for their religion and culture highly offensive. The French people are completely tone deaf and arrogant wrt to their treatment of minorities in their countries. They are hiding behind the cloak of "free press" and it is outrageous. And yes, I'm aware that Scandinavian countries are as bad on this issue if not worse.

I completely agree. My brother is living in Paris right now and I am scared to death for him. He has a very obvious Muslim name and there is currently a lot of backlash because of the Charlie Hebdo thing. Yesterday, in France a pregnant Muslim woman was attacked by men who pulled her hijab off asking her to take that *** off and beat her up while she was screaming that she was pregnant, she lost the baby. Mosques were also vandalized along with Arab businesses and a car belonging to a middle eastern family was shot at. Unless we start having honest conversations about the underlying issues, this will never get resolved.

Anonymous wrote:Swedish-american here. I think it is crossing the line to display these images publicly. I am not muslim--but I find such disregard for their religion and culture highly offensive. The French people are completely tone deaf and arrogant wrt to their treatment of minorities in their countries. They are hiding behind the cloak of "free press" and it is outrageous. And yes, I'm aware that Scandinavian countries are as bad on this issue if not worse.

Anonymous wrote:I've been watching this thread, and actually met a woman wearing a niqab today. I went to Costco after work and got stuck in a line where there was a price check/food stamp issue that lasted for what seemed like forever. The Muslim lady behind me was really nice. We didn't want to get out of the line and go into another really long line, because - murphy's law dictates when we do that the issue will be resolved and we will be stuck in a new crazy long line. I was a bit scared of talking to her, but when I struck up a conversation about how I always seem to get in the line that has "problems", she was super nice. It was a bit strange only seeing her eyes, and she had a small daughter also wearing a veil but we were stuck in the line for a long time so we talked a lot.

I felt weird that the things I were buying were bacon, dog treats, and alcohol, thinking she would judge me, but she was really cool. This is not a troll post. After talking to her for a while the veil didn't really make a difference, I could judge her personality from our interaction. It has made me feel differently about my previous thoughts on niquab.

I still don't really understand it, being an atheist and not liking religion very much, but it definitely bothers me a lot less after interacting with a woman who wears it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swedish-american here. I think it is crossing the line to display these images publicly. I am not muslim--but I find such disregard for their religion and culture highly offensive. The French people are completely tone deaf and arrogant wrt to their treatment of minorities in their countries. They are hiding behind the cloak of "free press" and it is outrageous. And yes, I'm aware that Scandinavian countries are as bad on this issue if not worse.

So, do you not believe in free speech even if you find it offensive?

One can believe in free speech and still think that it's wrong to post things solely to offend.

Anonymous wrote:Swedish-american here. I think it is crossing the line to display these images publicly. I am not muslim--but I find such disregard for their religion and culture highly offensive. The French people are completely tone deaf and arrogant wrt to their treatment of minorities in their countries. They are hiding behind the cloak of "free press" and it is outrageous. And yes, I'm aware that Scandinavian countries are as bad on this issue if not worse.

Anonymous wrote:French press reports *separate* shooting and hostage situation (5 hostages) this time at the Porter de Vincennes in Paris, possibly by the same person (perhaps related to the two terrorists) who shot and killed a policewoman yesterday south of Paris.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swedish-american here. I think it is crossing the line to display these images publicly. I am not muslim--but I find such disregard for their religion and culture highly offensive. The French people are completely tone deaf and arrogant wrt to their treatment of minorities in their countries. They are hiding behind the cloak of "free press" and it is outrageous. And yes, I'm aware that Scandinavian countries are as bad on this issue if not worse.

So, do you not believe in free speech even if you find it offensive?

Anonymous wrote:Swedish-american here. I think it is crossing the line to display these images publicly. I am not muslim--but I find such disregard for their religion and culture highly offensive. The French people are completely tone deaf and arrogant wrt to their treatment of minorities in their countries. They are hiding behind the cloak of "free press" and it is outrageous. And yes, I'm aware that Scandinavian countries are as bad on this issue if not worse.