Of course if there is a real god, other cultures will be influenced by his existence, and you will see themes in them that point towards the truth. God has been revealing himself through all times, through all people. You seem to think Christians believe God only revealed himself through Jesus. That is not their belief.

And, why do you keep talking about ancient Roman Gods? While it is true that the Romans did eventually adapt Christianity, Jesus and his disciples were Jewish and more influenced by Jewish religious beliefs. Of course, all the ancient Mediterranean religions influenced each other, but the Jews were monotheistic long before the council of Nicea. No educated Christian denies that early Christianity was influenced by both Jewish and other local religious traditions, though. What makes you think educated Christians deny this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If anything, the Christian "God is light" metaphor comes from a long tradition of dualism between good/evil and dark/light. The Manicheans were the extreme form of this dualism. The attempt to connect this metaphor to Zeus, the sun god, is silly. Sometimes a metaphor is just a metaphor!

Zeus was not the sun god. Ra was. Zeus was the god of the sky and the ruler of all lesser gods. Ra was part of ancient Egyptian culture.

Metaphors are based on our thought process, which is shaped by culture. In Western culture, up is good; down is bad. We have the concepts of heaven and hell.

We view time in a linear fashion with the past behind the present and the future in front of the present. However, there are some South-American Indian languages that view the present as behind and the past in front, as we KNOW the past (we can see it), but we can't yet see the future.

We do indeed live by metaphors, and religion is just an extension of that way of thinking, as it helps many people make sense of their world. So Jesus is light. You can see during the day. The sun heats us and helps with crops. Therefore, it's good. It's only a natural progression to move from a sun god to Jesus. The Manicheans were no different - very pagan. Have you examined the history of that belief system? cosmology, demons, elements (Fire, Water, Air, Ether, and Light), very violent and dark origin, btw

Read Metaphors We Live By by Lakoff.
http://www.amazon.com/Metaphors-We-Live-George-Lakoff/dp/0226468011
It should open up your mind. I still have my copy from college.

That was my post. We agree to the extent that light has existed as a metaphor for millenia, and sun worship (or, related, worship of the god of the sun) has been a feature of certain religions.

It's where you make the leap to Christianity having roots in the sun god, apart from a simple metaphorical relationship, that you lose the plot. You haven't established or traced a direct link from the sun gods to Jesus, and you can't. Further, it's not a very rational leap, if you read the Bible (which you won't, so you'll have to take my word for it). Rather, in the absence of being able to trace such a link, this is nothing more than your own "belief" about the origins of Christianity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Any basic research 101 will help you. I suggest you look beyond the bible as your main source. You may learn something.

Here are a few more:

Genesis 1:16
God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.

(translation - The "great light" is the sun!)

Acts 26:13
at midday, O King, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining all around me and those who were journeying with me.

Isaiah 60:19
"No longer will you have the sun for light by day, Nor for brightness will the moon give you light; But you will have the LORD for an everlasting light, And your God for your glory.

metaphors - all connected to the sun and light

Maybe Darwin was a metaphor!

That's right, the whole Voyage of the Beagle thing was a religious quest. The stop at the Galapagos was a search for demons of the mind. The Straits of Magellan were actually the atheist's philosophical straight jacket. Australia was a metaphorical desert of the soul.

See how that works?

uh
not really

But you seem happy with your simplistic "aha" moment.

I'll let you bask in your glory.

You completely missed the point. That was obviously pointing out the absurdity of your own attempt to twist a literary metaphor into some sort of historical truth.

BTW, you or someone DID try to claim that Son of God = Sun of God, right here on this thread at 12/29 @ 9:50. You can't deny it. As if everybody was speaking English in 30AD.

You're an idiot. I cleared this up a few posts ago. Who mentioned using English? The sun is the sun. It's a big fireball. Ancient Egyptians saw the same thing the Romans saw. In the bible, Jesus is light.

It's cross-cultural.

the Quran:

and the earth shall shine with the light of her Lord." (Qur'an 39: 68-69)

Look at Diwali - a festival that celebrates the victory of light over darkness.

In Islam, as in Judaism, God is never depicted. Nor is it possible to describe Him through references to the physical world. God can, though, be understood through reference to light. This practice is sanctioned by the Qur'an, which Muslims believe to be the actual word of God sent down to the Prophet Muhammad.

http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles/f/festivals-of-light-islam/

Sadly, YOU can't see the light!

Anonymous wrote:If anything, the Christian "God is light" metaphor comes from a long tradition of dualism between good/evil and dark/light. The Manicheans were the extreme form of this dualism. The attempt to connect this metaphor to Zeus, the sun god, is silly. Sometimes a metaphor is just a metaphor!

Zeus was not the sun god. Ra was. Zeus was the god of the sky and the ruler of all lesser gods. Ra was part of ancient Egyptian culture.

Metaphors are based on our thought process, which is shaped by culture. In Western culture, up is good; down is bad. We have the concepts of heaven and hell.

We view time in a linear fashion with the past behind the present and the future in front of the present. However, there are some South-American Indian languages that view the present as behind and the past in front, as we KNOW the past (we can see it), but we can't yet see the future.

We do indeed live by metaphors, and religion is just an extension of that way of thinking, as it helps many people make sense of their world. So Jesus is light. You can see during the day. The sun heats us and helps with crops. Therefore, it's good. It's only a natural progression to move from a sun god to Jesus. The Manicheans were no different - very pagan. Have you examined the history of that belief system? cosmology, demons, elements (Fire, Water, Air, Ether, and Light), very violent and dark origin, btw

Read Metaphors We Live By by Lakoff.
http://www.amazon.com/Metaphors-We-Live-George-Lakoff/dp/0226468011
It should open up your mind. I still have my copy from college.

If anything, the Christian "God is light" metaphor comes from a long tradition of dualism between good/evil and dark/light. The Manicheans were the extreme form of this dualism. The attempt to connect this metaphor to Zeus, the sun god, is silly. Sometimes a metaphor is just a metaphor!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not conflicted. I enjoy questioning people - even if they can't produce real answers.

I am perfectly comfortable with my beliefs. I have no fear of death and I know that I am serving humankind during this lifetime.

Truer words were never spoken by a troll.

Asking questions and producing evidence is troll-like behavior?

Please share.

At least I can reach BEYOND the bible for some possible answers. Most of you can't seem to do so, and then out of frustration, you respond with ignorant, empty posts.

This isn't one of the Muslim threads, where atheists can toss out some simple-minded snark about "ignorant posts" they respond with something misogynistic about mini-skirted grannies with STDs who can't cook, and everybody goes home happy.

Too bad for you, as you seem a little frustrated about that.

wtf?

No, really - I'm fine.

You, however . . . one for the cuckoo's nest

Yes, we simple minded Muslims learned that a while back. Best to let the cuckoo go.

Your insults about women who had STDs and were bad cooks were called misogynistic, which they were. Not simple minded. Just to be clear.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Any basic research 101 will help you. I suggest you look beyond the bible as your main source. You may learn something.

Here are a few more:

Genesis 1:16
God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.

(translation - The "great light" is the sun!)

Acts 26:13
at midday, O King, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining all around me and those who were journeying with me.

Isaiah 60:19
"No longer will you have the sun for light by day, Nor for brightness will the moon give you light; But you will have the LORD for an everlasting light, And your God for your glory.

metaphors - all connected to the sun and light

Maybe Darwin was a metaphor!

That's right, the whole Voyage of the Beagle thing was a religious quest. The stop at the Galapagos was a search for demons of the mind. The Straits of Magellan were actually the atheist's philosophical straight jacket. Australia was a metaphorical desert of the soul.

See how that works?

uh
not really

But you seem happy with your simplistic "aha" moment.

I'll let you bask in your glory.

You completely missed the point. That was obviously pointing out the absurdity of your own attempt to twist a literary metaphor into some sort of historical truth.

BTW, you or someone DID try to claim that Son of God = Sun of God, right here on this thread at 12/29 @ 9:50. You can't deny it. As if everybody was speaking English in 30AD.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not conflicted. I enjoy questioning people - even if they can't produce real answers.

I am perfectly comfortable with my beliefs. I have no fear of death and I know that I am serving humankind during this lifetime.

Truer words were never spoken by a troll.

Asking questions and producing evidence is troll-like behavior?

Please share.

At least I can reach BEYOND the bible for some possible answers. Most of you can't seem to do so, and then out of frustration, you respond with ignorant, empty posts.

This isn't one of the Muslim threads, where atheists can toss out some simple-minded snark about "ignorant posts" they respond with something misogynistic about mini-skirted grannies with STDs who can't cook, and everybody goes home happy.

Too bad for you, as you seem a little frustrated about that.

wtf?

No, really - I'm fine.

You, however . . . one for the cuckoo's nest

Yes, we simple minded Muslims learned that a while back. Best to let the cuckoo go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Any basic research 101 will help you. I suggest you look beyond the bible as your main source. You may learn something.

Here are a few more:

Genesis 1:16
God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.

(translation - The "great light" is the sun!)

Acts 26:13
at midday, O King, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining all around me and those who were journeying with me.

Isaiah 60:19
"No longer will you have the sun for light by day, Nor for brightness will the moon give you light; But you will have the LORD for an everlasting light, And your God for your glory.

metaphors - all connected to the sun and light

Maybe Darwin was a metaphor!

That's right, the whole Voyage of the Beagle thing was a religious quest. The stop at the Galapagos was a search for demons of the mind. The Straits of Magellan were actually the atheist's philosophical straight jacket. Australia was a metaphorical desert of the soul.

See how that works?

uh
not really

But you seem happy with your simplistic "aha" moment.

I'll let you bask in your glory.

Anonymous wrote:
Any basic research 101 will help you. I suggest you look beyond the bible as your main source. You may learn something.

Here are a few more:

Genesis 1:16
God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.

(translation - The "great light" is the sun!)

Acts 26:13
at midday, O King, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining all around me and those who were journeying with me.

Isaiah 60:19
"No longer will you have the sun for light by day, Nor for brightness will the moon give you light; But you will have the LORD for an everlasting light, And your God for your glory.

metaphors - all connected to the sun and light

Maybe Darwin was a metaphor!

That's right, the whole Voyage of the Beagle thing was a religious quest. The stop at the Galapagos was a search for demons of the mind. The Straits of Magellan were actually the atheist's philosophical straight jacket. Australia was a metaphorical desert of the soul.

See how that works?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not conflicted. I enjoy questioning people - even if they can't produce real answers.

I am perfectly comfortable with my beliefs. I have no fear of death and I know that I am serving humankind during this lifetime.

Truer words were never spoken by a troll.

Asking questions and producing evidence is troll-like behavior?

Please share.

At least I can reach BEYOND the bible for some possible answers. Most of you can't seem to do so, and then out of frustration, you respond with ignorant, empty posts.

This isn't one of the Muslim threads, where atheists can toss out some simple-minded snark about "ignorant posts" they respond with something misogynistic about mini-skirted grannies with STDs who can't cook, and everybody goes home happy.

Too bad for you, as you seem a little frustrated about that.

wtf?

No, really - I'm fine.

You, however . . . one for the cuckoo's nest

Hehe. If you don't get it, you don't get it. No reason to be ashamed. It's your loss, though, because those were some great threads.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also the Sun=Son theory. Was that supposed to be
"evidence"?

no

I didn't say that.

If you examine the bible, you'll see Jesus compared to light.

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

John 8:12 is one such example.

But many of you are too dense to see how humans RUN on metaphors.

And with the sun giving light to the pagans, helping them grow their crops, giving them warmth, it's only natural to have a sun god.

Again, so many of you can't accept that b/c you're fearful of the truth.

Any basic research 101 will help you. I suggest you look beyond the bible as your main source. You may learn something.

Here are a few more:

Genesis 1:16
God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.

(translation - The "great light" is the sun!)

Acts 26:13
at midday, O King, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining all around me and those who were journeying with me.

Isaiah 60:19
"No longer will you have the sun for light by day, Nor for brightness will the moon give you light; But you will have the LORD for an everlasting light, And your God for your glory.

metaphors - all connected to the sun and light

So metaphor = proof?

I don't think so. This fails basic tests of logic. Congratulations on learning the word "metaphor", though.

I'm fine with metaphors like the one someone brought up earlier, about Jesus saying he came to bring a (metaphorical) sword. But your attempt to torture an actual metaphor in the literary sense (Jesus as light) into proof that Jesus is some sort of sun god is laughable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not conflicted. I enjoy questioning people - even if they can't produce real answers.

I am perfectly comfortable with my beliefs. I have no fear of death and I know that I am serving humankind during this lifetime.

Truer words were never spoken by a troll.

Asking questions and producing evidence is troll-like behavior?

Please share.

At least I can reach BEYOND the bible for some possible answers. Most of you can't seem to do so, and then out of frustration, you respond with ignorant, empty posts.

This isn't one of the Muslim threads, where atheists can toss out some simple-minded snark about "ignorant posts" they respond with something misogynistic about mini-skirted grannies with STDs who can't cook, and everybody goes home happy.

Too bad for you, as you seem a little frustrated about that.

wtf?

No, really - I'm fine.

You, however . . . one for the cuckoo's nest

Anonymous wrote:Also the Sun=Son theory. Was that supposed to be
"evidence"?

no

I didn't say that.

If you examine the bible, you'll see Jesus compared to light.

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

John 8:12 is one such example.

But many of you are too dense to see how humans RUN on metaphors.

And with the sun giving light to the pagans, helping them grow their crops, giving them warmth, it's only natural to have a sun god.

Again, so many of you can't accept that b/c you're fearful of the truth.

Any basic research 101 will help you. I suggest you look beyond the bible as your main source. You may learn something.

Here are a few more:

Genesis 1:16
God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.

(translation - The "great light" is the sun!)

Acts 26:13
at midday, O King, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining all around me and those who were journeying with me.

Isaiah 60:19
"No longer will you have the sun for light by day, Nor for brightness will the moon give you light; But you will have the LORD for an everlasting light, And your God for your glory.

metaphors - all connected to the sun and light

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not conflicted. I enjoy questioning people - even if they can't produce real answers.

I am perfectly comfortable with my beliefs. I have no fear of death and I know that I am serving humankind during this lifetime.

Truer words were never spoken by a troll.

Asking questions and producing evidence is troll-like behavior?

Please share.

At least I can reach BEYOND the bible for some possible answers. Most of you can't seem to do so, and then out of frustration, you respond with ignorant, empty posts.

This isn't one of the Muslim threads, where atheists can toss out some simple-minded snark about "ignorant posts" they respond with something misogynistic about mini-skirted grannies with STDs who can't cook, and everybody goes home happy.

Too bad for you, as you seem a little frustrated about that.