Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not really. I counter both of your takes. I have personal experience with this, and we keep our house pretty darn clean. Too many factors at play here that I feel support my assertion. And both of my parents died from dementia.

We called pest control once we observed droppings that seemed to have happened in many rooms/furniture in our house, in a short period of time(2-4weeks). We went from top to bottom and corrected. New installation in attic, treatments in house, treatments outside of house. Plus, we had to seal any potential entry points along roof, side of house, garage, etc. we bleached floors and wiped down counters, and stored everything in our pantries and on countertops in plastic containers. It was costly but timely. And we found our suspects. The traps worked. Even now, several months later, we still have a monthly service that inspects all areas and sprays each month.

Now that was for fewer than 5 or 10 mice at most.

Given the excruciating efforts that we went thru to rid of our mice problem (and no, we do not live on sprawling estate, and have neighbors and forested areas nearby, I can assure you that two people—one aged 65 who was a caregiver and one aged 95 who had advanced dementia, and with 3 dogs on the property, did not undertake the steps that an Orkin or pest control company would recommend to eradicate a problem like that. And I think that with a disease like hantavirus that is known to be present in the area, that they would recommend a scorched earth approach given the chance for fatalities if the problem we’re not properly contained.


Mice don’t limit themselves to one building or one stockpile of wood. They go to where the food or warmth is. They travel often and frequently at night or out of sight. And they are quiet. The only way we knew was thru droppings all over the house, which have to be removed in a careful way to not cause the spread of disease.

I guarantee non of this happened with them. The problem got out of control. They probably called pest control but it was too late.


It’s sad, but I’m sure my account, based on experience, is closer to the truth than her catching it in a shed on the property.

Year down the house and you will see a lot of mice fleeing.

It’s clear you have not read any of the multiple science articles about Hanta posted here and you almost certainly don’t live west of the Mississippi. Your personal experience is not relevant.

You don’t know that at all because your premise is false. Spent many years west of the Mississippi.

I have read nearly 10-15 articles on this recently. Completely similar. Mice are mice. They had a rodent problem in the house.

Also, I didn’t think about pet food. She may have contracted it from infected pet food/bowls that were at the house. It says that she had recently visited a pet store for food, and just recently had a lot of interactions with the dogs.

Pet food is a favorite mouse food.

https://www.familyhandyman.com/list/things-that-attract-mice/

Anonymous wrote:Not really. I counter both of your takes. I have personal experience with this, and we keep our house pretty darn clean. Too many factors at play here that I feel support my assertion. And both of my parents died from dementia.

We called pest control once we observed droppings that seemed to have happened in many rooms/furniture in our house, in a short period of time(2-4weeks). We went from top to bottom and corrected. New installation in attic, treatments in house, treatments outside of house. Plus, we had to seal any potential entry points along roof, side of house, garage, etc. we bleached floors and wiped down counters, and stored everything in our pantries and on countertops in plastic containers. It was costly but timely. And we found our suspects. The traps worked. Even now, several months later, we still have a monthly service that inspects all areas and sprays each month.

Now that was for fewer than 5 or 10 mice at most.

Given the excruciating efforts that we went thru to rid of our mice problem (and no, we do not live on sprawling estate, and have neighbors and forested areas nearby, I can assure you that two people—one aged 65 who was a caregiver and one aged 95 who had advanced dementia, and with 3 dogs on the property, did not undertake the steps that an Orkin or pest control company would recommend to eradicate a problem like that. And I think that with a disease like hantavirus that is known to be present in the area, that they would recommend a scorched earth approach given the chance for fatalities if the problem we’re not properly contained.


Mice don’t limit themselves to one building or one stockpile of wood. They go to where the food or warmth is. They travel often and frequently at night or out of sight. And they are quiet. The only way we knew was thru droppings all over the house, which have to be removed in a careful way to not cause the spread of disease.

I guarantee non of this happened with them. The problem got out of control. They probably called pest control but it was too late.


It’s sad, but I’m sure my account, based on experience, is closer to the truth than her catching it in a shed on the property.

Year down the house and you will see a lot of mice fleeing.

It’s clear you have not read any of the multiple science articles about Hanta posted here and you almost certainly don’t live west of the Mississippi. Your personal experience is not relevant.

Not really. I counter both of your takes. I have personal experience with this, and we keep our house pretty darn clean. Too many factors at play here that I feel support my assertion. And both of my parents died from dementia.

We called pest control once we observed droppings that seemed to have happened in many rooms/furniture in our house, in a short period of time(2-4weeks). We went from top to bottom and corrected. New installation in attic, treatments in house, treatments outside of house. Plus, we had to seal any potential entry points along roof, side of house, garage, etc. we bleached floors and wiped down counters, and stored everything in our pantries and on countertops in plastic containers. It was costly but timely. And we found our suspects. The traps worked. Even now, several months later, we still have a monthly service that inspects all areas and sprays each month.

Now that was for fewer than 5 or 10 mice at most.

Given the excruciating efforts that we went thru to rid of our mice problem (and no, we do not live on sprawling estate, and have neighbors and forested areas nearby, I can assure you that two people—one aged 65 who was a caregiver and one aged 95 who had advanced dementia, and with 3 dogs on the property, did not undertake the steps that an Orkin or pest control company would recommend to eradicate a problem like that. And I think that with a disease like hantavirus that is known to be present in the area, that they would recommend a scorched earth approach given the chance for fatalities if the problem we’re not properly contained.


Mice don’t limit themselves to one building or one stockpile of wood. They go to where the food or warmth is. They travel often and frequently at night or out of sight. And they are quiet. The only way we knew was thru droppings all over the house, which have to be removed in a careful way to not cause the spread of disease.

I guarantee non of this happened with them. The problem got out of control. They probably called pest control but it was too late.


It’s sad, but I’m sure my account, based on experience, is closer to the truth than her catching it in a shed on the property.

Year down the house and you will see a lot of mice fleeing.

I believe it was said that the mouse problem was in out buildings. Not in the main house.

Anonymous wrote:My take: rat/mouse infestation. From experience, it doesn’t take long for droppings to be everywhere. Also, if problem is not corrected early on, mice will multiply (and so more droppings).

The fact that an exterminator found the bodies means that they had a problem with mice, enough to warrant a contract or call to pest control.

How long? How expansive was problem? Mice hide during the day a lot of times. Usually it’s thru dropping and urine that you learn of their presence.

I’m thinking the problem had grown worse and she wasn’t careful enough and was exposed (inhaled or touched) droppings/urine. It’s easy to do because they poop everywhere!

You're just making up your own narrative here. The investigators specifically said there was not a mouse infestation in the main home. And nearly every single house in my neighborhood has a pest control plan where they visit and treat the house on a quarterly basis.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where was she that she was inhaling rodent union and droppings to contract hantavirus?

It happens all the time in the South West. Totally clean house, and you can't detect there are rodents in your walls and ceiling. They poop and pee and you breathe in Hanta.

So why didn't Gene die of it too?

Nope, the house could not have been totally clean. I had a mouse problem. If the mice were only in the walls and attic, you won’t see droppings. They had mice in the house and the infestation had grown worse. I know this because it takes a lot to get rid of them. With a sprawling property, dogs, etc, they had an unchecked mouse issue and that’s how she died.

If there had been a dramatic infestation it would have been noted in the search warrant. It’s much more likely that she got it in an outbuilding, a woodpile, or even just being outside. Yosemite campers contracted it. It’s also possible that there was a mouse or two inside and that’s how she contracted it, but people acting like the house was covered in droppings are delusional. The fact that exterminators were scheduled also doesn’t mean they had mice. There are lots of creepy crawlies in that arid climate, and it’s common to have regularly scheduled exterminators.

I agree with you. I also feel like people just want their situation to be extreme so that it seems really far from the reality that most of us live in. We don't want to deal with tragedies like that. But, honestly, it doesn't sound like there was a major infestation inside the house.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where was she that she was inhaling rodent union and droppings to contract hantavirus?

It happens all the time in the South West. Totally clean house, and you can't detect there are rodents in your walls and ceiling. They poop and pee and you breathe in Hanta.

So why didn't Gene die of it too?

Nope, the house could not have been totally clean. I had a mouse problem. If the mice were only in the walls and attic, you won’t see droppings. They had mice in the house and the infestation had grown worse. I know this because it takes a lot to get rid of them. With a sprawling property, dogs, etc, they had an unchecked mouse issue and that’s how she died.

If there had been a dramatic infestation it would have been noted in the search warrant. It’s much more likely that she got it in an outbuilding, a woodpile, or even just being outside. Yosemite campers contracted it. It’s also possible that there was a mouse or two inside and that’s how she contracted it, but people acting like the house was covered in droppings are delusional. The fact that exterminators were scheduled also doesn’t mean they had mice. There are lots of creepy crawlies in that arid climate, and it’s common to have regularly scheduled exterminators.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where was she that she was inhaling rodent union and droppings to contract hantavirus?

It happens all the time in the South West. Totally clean house, and you can't detect there are rodents in your walls and ceiling. They poop and pee and you breathe in Hanta.

So why didn't Gene die of it too?

Nope, the house could not have been totally clean. I had a mouse problem. If the mice were only in the walls and attic, you won’t see droppings. They had mice in the house and the infestation had grown worse. I know this because it takes a lot to get rid of them. With a sprawling property, dogs, etc, they had an unchecked mouse issue and that’s how she died.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband asked, in regard to the hantavirus, could rodents have come in after… and this is why hantavirus appears?

I guess medical examiners may have seen that before? In cases where there has been a delay in discovery? I don’t know, but they would.

No. Good grief. Do some people not understand basic biology and medicine? Dead people don't contract viruses. Viruses need LIVE CELLS to replicate in humans. They hijack the machinery of the cell, again let me reiterate the living cell, to replicate. She didn't have hantavirus "sprinkled" on her clothes by marauding rats or something. Medical examiners know what hantavirus pulmonary syndrome looks like. They know what lungs infected by HPS look like, which require the person to have been ALIVE and BREATHING for the virus to get into their lungs and replicate there and kill them. They wouldn't have said she died of it if they did not see the evidence in her lungs and tissues.

Good grief right back.
You’ve answered my question.

I didn’t see the part about it being deep in her lungs. That was the only basic question—did rodents appear on the scene later and leave traces. It’s a fair question from someone who didn’t read every single piece.

Nowhere did I argue that like the person above ^^ that it is released upon decomposing. What?

OMG. Two people explained thus to you. Corpses don’t contract viruses. Your question and response are ridiculous. Mice cannot “come in afterwards” and infect a dead body. She died from the HantaVIRUS. You clearly still don’t understand what a virus is despite having it spelled out for you.

Pp. it takes a lot to get a mouse problem under control. You have to seal openings from outdoors, put down traps and spray around premises. I doubt of this was done given the sprawl of their property. They probably just decided to live with the mice and to get periodic treatments thinking that it would be enough to solve the problem.

Mice multiply quickly. By not doing all to eradicate the problem, it grew worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Gene not notice Betsy on the bathroom floor?
Do you not notice things like that with Alzeihmers? Or maybe he noticed, but bc of his lack of mental logic didn't do anything? Or his attempt to "help" was going to walk to a neighbor's house (He was found dead in the mudroom).

He might have noticed, thought he'd get help, then went to put his coat on and go out, only to forget why he'd put his coat on. He might have noticed, thought he'd get help, and forget when he was two steps past the bathroom. That could have happened dozens of times for days before he died. He could have discovered his wife and caregiver dead on the floor over and over again. Alzheimer's is terrifying.

+1 When I told my mom with Alzheimer's that my dad had died, she looked at me for a brief moment with clarity and asked "was it easy?" And then she was gone again, as if we'd never had the conversation.

This story of Gene and Betsy will haunt me for a long time. Maybe it'll have some positive effects though - make people more aware of hantavirus and to be more conscious of checking in on the elderly and their caregivers.

My take: rat/mouse infestation. From experience, it doesn’t take long for droppings to be everywhere. Also, if problem is not corrected early on, mice will multiply (and so more droppings).

The fact that an exterminator found the bodies means that they had a problem with mice, enough to warrant a contract or call to pest control.

How long? How expansive was problem? Mice hide during the day a lot of times. Usually it’s thru dropping and urine that you learn of their presence.

I’m thinking the problem had grown worse and she wasn’t careful enough and was exposed (inhaled or touched) droppings/urine. It’s easy to do because they poop everywhere!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine how mortified the family is. Regardless of the reason, having everyone in the country know that my father wandered around his house with severe dementia, unable to get help for more than a week would be so embarrassing. Not to mention how guilty I would feel. I mean, I was present when my dad died, and I still (against all reason) felt guilty.

How is this embarrassing? Extremely sad, yes but hardly embarrassing.

+1 very sad but I imagine stories like this will become more common with an aging population.

No, loving families would not be out of touch for this length of time.

You're assuming he could talk on the phone. My grandmother, when she had dementia, progressed to the point where she really could not. But before that, she could but didn't want to. And none of the grandkids - all of whom lived out of state - realized the full extent until we visited. My grandfather concealed it. He didn't want his kids and grandkids to worry. So when we called he'd say she was in the shower, or napping, or visiting with friends. All very plausible. Then we get there for a visit and she's thrilled to see us and we gradually realize she has no idea who we actually are. And that was a good year before she actually died. At that one year before mark, my parents and aunts/uncles stepped in to help, but they had to override my grandfather in order to do it. He really didn't want help even though he needed it and she needed it.

PP here. i get it, but that's why frequent contact by someone (relative, caregiver, social worker) is needed. What if someone were mentally ill?paraplegic? Low cognitive functioning? Cancer in advanced stages? You don't just leave them to whatever...

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many responses are from 50-60 years old with a 95 year old parent married to a loving wife in her 60s?

Why does the age of the parent’s spouse factor in with how often someone checks in with their own parent?

I think a lot of these postets aren't close emotionally to their parents and just look for excuses to not be in frequent contact with them.

Immature judgmental hater.

Instead of calling people judgmental haters, perhaps consider the fact that there needs to be arrangements for frequent contact and a backup plan if families want to ensure that their loved ones with special needs, dementia, physical and/or mental limitations, etc are safe.