Anonymous wrote:For the teacher that has three hours of planning time per week, you are lucky. In our school, we are pulled from our planning time to go cover other classrooms where teachers is out, no sub is available

Anonymous wrote:I fully expect it to become a requirement that all teachers get either an ESOL or a Special Ed endorsement on their licenses within the next 5-10 years. It won't do anything to help the teaching shortage and will almost certainly make it worse but it will allow schools to say they're meeting the legal requirements to provide services without having to hire more people.

Anonymous wrote:For the teacher that has three hours of planning time per week, you are lucky. In our school, we are pulled from our planning time to go cover other classrooms where teachers is out, no sub is available

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me there are two questions: are teachers overworked and should they be paid more. The answers are not the same. No I do not think overworked. Certainly some are but most no. Should they be paid more -- yes -- a lot more. Probably start at 80 and with a Masters and 5-7 years should be 100-125k. Exceptional should be 150k. That would be fair.

OMG! You have this so backwards. In what planet would anyone pay 150k for an BA or MA degree? I mean cashiers are on their feet all day, have to deal with horrible customers, and were forced to work as essential workers during the pandemic. Should we pay them 6 figures too? 6 figures for everyone!!

Yes, teachers are overworked. They have to deal with a lot of things that previous generations didn’t have to. We should remove non- teaching functions from teachers’ workloads. We should encourage more recorded lessons and enhance teaching software to encourage more independent learning. Maybe we should decrease teaching staff (since teachers are doing that anyway) and hire more behavior experts and learning coaches. Teachers can record lessons and computer software can teach and grade preset assignments. Teachers would make themselves available during set office hours for those that need extra help. Maybe the answer is to redefine schools and adjust what teaching looks like in our increasingly digital world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me there are two questions: are teachers overworked and should they be paid more. The answers are not the same. No I do not think overworked. Certainly some are but most no. Should they be paid more -- yes -- a lot more. Probably start at 80 and with a Masters and 5-7 years should be 100-125k. Exceptional should be 150k. That would be fair.

OMG! You have this so backwards. In what planet would anyone pay 150k for an BA or MA degree? I mean cashiers are on their feet all day, have to deal with horrible customers, and were forced to work as essential workers during the pandemic. Should we pay them 6 figures too? 6 figures for everyone!!

Yes, teachers are overworked. They have to deal with a lot of things that previous generations didn’t have to. We should remove non- teaching functions from teachers’ workloads. We should encourage more recorded lessons and enhance teaching software to encourage more independent learning. Maybe we should decrease teaching staff (since teachers are doing that anyway) and hire more behavior experts and learning coaches. Teachers can record lessons and computer software can teach and grade preset assignments. Teachers would make themselves available during set office hours for those that need extra help. Maybe the answer is to redefine schools and adjust what teaching looks like in our increasingly digital world.

Anonymous wrote:To me there are two questions: are teachers overworked and should they be paid more. The answers are not the same. No I do not think overworked. Certainly some are but most no. Should they be paid more -- yes -- a lot more. Probably start at 80 and with a Masters and 5-7 years should be 100-125k. Exceptional should be 150k. That would be fair.

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Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Right. If you look at threads about SAHM/WAHM there are so many posters claiming that they are working moms with high incomes but they don't have to sacrifice time with their kids because they really only have to work during school hours and it's totally flexible for school events during the day, etc.

Teaching is difficult because there is little flexibility when school is in session. That's absolutely true. The lack of flexibility requires teachers to have to miss their own kids' school events, which many of us can attend. I keep asking if there isn't some way to improve on that, whether through teaching as teams or having a floating backup at school, or some other way to give teachers a chance to take an occasional day off without too much stress.

On the other hand, you don't know what other people have done to earn or keep flexible work arrangements. When my kids were in early elementary school, many of the moms who had been SAHMs were looking for jobs and were dissatisfied with what they could find. They would tell me how "lucky" I was to have a part-time job. I did consider myself to be fortunate to have that part-time position, but before getting that, I worked countless hours as a litigator, almost around the clock, in order to have time with my kids. Even that "part-time" job required more hours than I was paid for and often saw me up at 4:00 a.m. working to make up for the "flexibility" to be there for my kids during the day.

You never know.

But I agree that teachers have to work harder than they should and will tell anyone willing to listen that the busy administrative work that takes time away from actual teaching needs to go ASAP.

Understood. It is unfortunate with teaching though that even if you have seniority, have been a high achiever, etc, you will never get to a place where you have "earned" this high amount of flexibility and reduced hours that many other working moms on DCUM speak of as if it's expected. And pretty much all of these other jobs pay (way) more than teaching.
Now, I get that some of this should be known before becoming a teacher, which is why I always wanted to be a SAHM once I had kids. Some of it, however, was difficult to understand until I started working in the school system.

NP and I don’t feel overworked but what has started to bother me about the job is that seniority, experience, strong performance gets me nothing. That part of the job gets tiring especially when co workers who don’t have those qualities get the same schedule, courses, etc as me.

+1,000 I mean the ESL teachers pull
Small groups of 4 or less kids and get paid the same. Why am
I putting up with parents and 23 kids + sped inclusion. Also why is that equitable for anyone- children or teachers

Again, if being an ESOL teacher is such a sweet gig, why are there so many vacancies in this area? Could it be that’s challenging in different ways?

I just ordered the praxis study guide and will take the praxis and take a job. I will be glad to take up that vacancy. Many teachers at my job are doing similar the ESOL teacher said, “everyone is asking me about that and thinking about switching.” I’ll report back next year. I’m guessing no report cards, no parent conferences, fewer meetings, and no whole group behavior management will definitely be easier.

ESOL teacher here. I'm not sure which district you work in but in my district, ESOL teachers do grades 8 times per year. 4 progress reports and 4 report cards, just like any other teacher. We are required to attend parent conferences (although many parents don't attend) and we have meetings about meetings. I probably have twice as many meetings as classroom teachers do. Yes, smaller groups means simpler classroom management but all it takes is one student to make a class or group hell. I can't have large groups because I teach in closets (yep, the supply closet), the food pantry, the hallway, the cafeteria stage, etc.

Seems easier to me!

1.You aren’t really doing the whole report card, just a sentence and a few objectives.

2. If you have a chair thrower, you can more easily take 4-5 other kids somewhere else and call for help in the middle of the hallway. If I have a chair thrower, there are 20 other kids to keep safe and worry about.

3. Again, the parent conference isn’t run by you, you just sit there and nod and add a statement or two about English progress and go to the next one. You aren’t assuming any responsibility for the complaints parents have, you just nod and go to the next one.

4. At the meetings, you again don’t have to assume as much responsibility. When they put the data on the wall, it isn’t your name the call when so and so isn’t making progress, it is the classroom teacher’s at the top of the list. You get to “add to the discussion” but you aren’t really called out as the primary responsible person.

So, yeah it is a good gig from where I sit. You meet with your little groups in a closet, if someone throws a chair, you can easily get safety for the other 4-5 kids. You can return the problem kids after the 45 minute session is up and the classroom teacher will handle the lovely for the other 5 hours each day.

Are you this much of a jackass to all of your coworkers? For a thread about how "no one understands how hard my job is" you'd think you'd have a little bit of empathy for someone else's job.

Nope- The ESL teacher I work with has written me thank you notes for helping her understand our grade level curriculum, providing her resources and teaching her so basic OG phonics work.

Watching another teacher pullout 2-4 of your kids leaving you with 18-20 and do this all day long makes you realize how much more energy and effort you have to put in to earn the same amount of money. The ESL teachers in our district all pull from 1 or 2 grade levels so it isn’t like they have that much more to plan for. I mean as a classroom teacher, especially in the early grades, we are planning for that many grade levels several times a day to differentiate work for students.
Shrug- why be mad at me? Do you never look at others and see “hmmm that may be better?” That is what our society is built on. Would it be better if I watched Bravo and aspired to be a rich jacka$$? Maybe I would just be more relatable to you.

Anonymous wrote:To me there are two questions: are teachers overworked and should they be paid more. The answers are not the same. No I do not think overworked. Certainly some are but most no. Should they be paid more -- yes -- a lot more. Probably start at 80 and with a Masters and 5-7 years should be 100-125k. Exceptional should be 150k. That would be fair.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Man, you really don't need parents to cut down teachers, when teachers will cut down other teachers.

+1

Oh dear. No we teachers aren’t necessarily “sisters in arms.” There will always be dissent among specialities in professions.

Many specialist Doctors look down upon the General Practitioners for choosing work that is “less challenging” and has better hours. I doubt you take them to task. Lawyers have similar “rivalries” among specialities and which one is “better.”

Why should teachers be immune? Because we don’t get as much pay as these professions? Because we are seen as caretakers and must have empathy for everyone at all times? Because we are a profession made up of a majority of women?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man, you really don't need parents to cut down teachers, when teachers will cut down other teachers.

+1

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Anonymous wrote:Teachers need to quit whining. Even this thread is about why nobody supposedly acknowledges how overworked teachers are. We get it, you feel stressed out, but so are many other professionals. We've already heard you complain about it 1000 times. Why do you think you're special and get to whine louder than everyone else?

I don’t think you can appreciate the stress of teaching unless you’ve done it. Is it the ONLY hard job? Of course not. Are teachers extremely overworked? Yes.

-career changer who has worked in the corporate world. I hard rough weeks in that job, but teaching is considerably more time-consuming and stressful to me.

Fact is that many middling college students who'd rather not get stressed out over grad school self-select into the teaching profession because they think it's an easier gig with lots of vacation time. And then those people get all upset when they realize that teaching is just as hard as many other jobs. So it's not the work per se but the false expectations about teaching that's causing all the whining.

Teachers get very little paid vacation time and that time is dictated to them. They do not have the option of working for more than the ~190 days of the school year without applying for another, different,temporary job. For all practical purposes, they are furloughed every summer.

I have missed three family weddings and will miss putting my child on the bus for his first day of kindergarten. This isn’t to mention missing every school concert, ceremony, party, field trip, and event because teaching offers zero flexibility. But yes, I get the summer off, unpaid. I teach at a camp then, instead. It’s hard seeing people who make three times what I do being able to flex hours or work remotely to take their kid to the doctor, take a long weekend, or go visit their kid’s class. They certainly aren’t working harder or more than I am. Sorry.

How do you know that? Just because someone can flex their hours doesn't mean they don't work hard.

I didn’t say they aren’t working hard. I said they aren’t working harder or more than I am. I know this because this is describes many of my friends and family members. A lot of them work from home and have entire days that they are “working” but have nothing at all to do, or have a couple brief phone calls. I never have a day at school like that, and I certainly can’t work from home if my kid is sick or a plumber is coming. I also see a tremendous amount of parents at school concerts at 11:00. Or parents who are both in the car for drop off AND pickup. Do you both only work five hours a day? Or not at all? This is on an everyday basis. How demanding can your jobs be if you can just block out that time every single day to sit in the school parking lot?

Right. If you look at threads about SAHM/WAHM there are so many posters claiming that they are working moms with high incomes but they don't have to sacrifice time with their kids because they really only have to work during school hours and it's totally flexible for school events during the day, etc.

Teaching is difficult because there is little flexibility when school is in session. That's absolutely true. The lack of flexibility requires teachers to have to miss their own kids' school events, which many of us can attend. I keep asking if there isn't some way to improve on that, whether through teaching as teams or having a floating backup at school, or some other way to give teachers a chance to take an occasional day off without too much stress.

On the other hand, you don't know what other people have done to earn or keep flexible work arrangements. When my kids were in early elementary school, many of the moms who had been SAHMs were looking for jobs and were dissatisfied with what they could find. They would tell me how "lucky" I was to have a part-time job. I did consider myself to be fortunate to have that part-time position, but before getting that, I worked countless hours as a litigator, almost around the clock, in order to have time with my kids. Even that "part-time" job required more hours than I was paid for and often saw me up at 4:00 a.m. working to make up for the "flexibility" to be there for my kids during the day.

You never know.

But I agree that teachers have to work harder than they should and will tell anyone willing to listen that the busy administrative work that takes time away from actual teaching needs to go ASAP.

Understood. It is unfortunate with teaching though that even if you have seniority, have been a high achiever, etc, you will never get to a place where you have "earned" this high amount of flexibility and reduced hours that many other working moms on DCUM speak of as if it's expected. And pretty much all of these other jobs pay (way) more than teaching.
Now, I get that some of this should be known before becoming a teacher, which is why I always wanted to be a SAHM once I had kids. Some of it, however, was difficult to understand until I started working in the school system.

NP and I don’t feel overworked but what has started to bother me about the job is that seniority, experience, strong performance gets me nothing. That part of the job gets tiring especially when co workers who don’t have those qualities get the same schedule, courses, etc as me.

+1,000 I mean the ESL teachers pull
Small groups of 4 or less kids and get paid the same. Why am
I putting up with parents and 23 kids + sped inclusion. Also why is that equitable for anyone- children or teachers

Again, if being an ESOL teacher is such a sweet gig, why are there so many vacancies in this area? Could it be that’s challenging in different ways?

I just ordered the praxis study guide and will take the praxis and take a job. I will be glad to take up that vacancy. Many teachers at my job are doing similar the ESOL teacher said, “everyone is asking me about that and thinking about switching.” I’ll report back next year. I’m guessing no report cards, no parent conferences, fewer meetings, and no whole group behavior management will definitely be easier.

ESOL teacher here. I'm not sure which district you work in but in my district, ESOL teachers do grades 8 times per year. 4 progress reports and 4 report cards, just like any other teacher. We are required to attend parent conferences (although many parents don't attend) and we have meetings about meetings. I probably have twice as many meetings as classroom teachers do. Yes, smaller groups means simpler classroom management but all it takes is one student to make a class or group hell. I can't have large groups because I teach in closets (yep, the supply closet), the food pantry, the hallway, the cafeteria stage, etc.

Seems easier to me!

1.You aren’t really doing the whole report card, just a sentence and a few objectives.

2. If you have a chair thrower, you can more easily take 4-5 other kids somewhere else and call for help in the middle of the hallway. If I have a chair thrower, there are 20 other kids to keep safe and worry about.

3. Again, the parent conference isn’t run by you, you just sit there and nod and add a statement or two about English progress and go to the next one. You aren’t assuming any responsibility for the complaints parents have, you just nod and go to the next one.

4. At the meetings, you again don’t have to assume as much responsibility. When they put the data on the wall, it isn’t your name the call when so and so isn’t making progress, it is the classroom teacher’s at the top of the list. You get to “add to the discussion” but you aren’t really called out as the primary responsible person.

So, yeah it is a good gig from where I sit. You meet with your little groups in a closet, if someone throws a chair, you can easily get safety for the other 4-5 kids. You can return the problem kids after the 45 minute session is up and the classroom teacher will handle the lovely for the other 5 hours each day.

Are you this much of a jackass to all of your coworkers? For a thread about how "no one understands how hard my job is" you'd think you'd have a little bit of empathy for someone else's job.

Anonymous wrote:Man, you really don't need parents to cut down teachers, when teachers will cut down other teachers.