Anonymous wrote:Sex and the City gets a lot of the credit for glamorizing an actually terribly depressing way to squander your 20s and 30s but Chelsea Handler was also a big influencer in this regard. Her books, boasting about drinking, drugs, one-night stands and abortions were best sellers and her E! show, from '07 to '14, was wildly popular. Chelsea is now a rich and lonely 47 year old; unmarried and childless. This weekend she was in the hospital, all alone. She had to postpone her "Horny tour." Living the dream, amirite.

Her hot shot E! executive ex boyfriend, Ted Harbert, dumped her, quickly married a younger woman, and has two children with her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know people are just responding to brunch granny, buy beyond the inflammatory trolling, there is a grain of truth there. The 21st century economy is incompatible with raising kids with two parents in the workforce. As a result, the birth rate will continue to decline. I would love it if our society didn’t view anyone over 40 as “past it,” allowing women to have children young *if they want* and then having a career later.

I have three and needed IVF for 2. I would have loved to have 4, but it was impossible. In our 20s, my husband and I were struggling with student loans and trying to get jobs. It’s only gotten worse.

I feel very lucky then because my husband and I both managed to work full time the entire time we were raising our kids, thanks to home daycare and an awesome nanny when the kids got older.

I do think the trend is going to be for having kids earlier and then doing career. That's where I think youth are headed --- lower income always have kids earlier. Upper income have moved earlier also. UMC/professional class next. There will always be women having kids when older but I think you will see a trend younger soon.

Show me any evidence for upper and UMC/professional. That would go against anything I’ve seen

Sex and the City gets a lot of the credit for glamorizing an actually terribly depressing way to squander your 20s and 30s but Chelsea Handler was also a big influencer in this regard. Her books, boasting about drinking, drugs, one-night stands and abortions were best sellers and her E! show, from '07 to '14, was wildly popular. Chelsea is now a rich and lonely 47 year old; unmarried and childless. This weekend she was in the hospital, all alone. She had to postpone her "Horny tour." Living the dream, amirite.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know people are just responding to brunch granny, buy beyond the inflammatory trolling, there is a grain of truth there. The 21st century economy is incompatible with raising kids with two parents in the workforce. As a result, the birth rate will continue to decline. I would love it if our society didn’t view anyone over 40 as “past it,” allowing women to have children young *if they want* and then having a career later.

I have three and needed IVF for 2. I would have loved to have 4, but it was impossible. In our 20s, my husband and I were struggling with student loans and trying to get jobs. It’s only gotten worse.

I feel very lucky then because my husband and I both managed to work full time the entire time we were raising our kids, thanks to home daycare and an awesome nanny when the kids got older.

I do think the trend is going to be for having kids earlier and then doing career. That's where I think youth are headed --- lower income always have kids earlier. Upper income have moved earlier also. UMC/professional class next. There will always be women having kids when older but I think you will see a trend younger soon.

The trend will be going childfree.

I wish. Instead the only people having babies will be immigrants and religious zealots.

Margaret Sanger, is that you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know people are just responding to brunch granny, buy beyond the inflammatory trolling, there is a grain of truth there. The 21st century economy is incompatible with raising kids with two parents in the workforce. As a result, the birth rate will continue to decline. I would love it if our society didn’t view anyone over 40 as “past it,” allowing women to have children young *if they want* and then having a career later.

I have three and needed IVF for 2. I would have loved to have 4, but it was impossible. In our 20s, my husband and I were struggling with student loans and trying to get jobs. It’s only gotten worse.

I feel very lucky then because my husband and I both managed to work full time the entire time we were raising our kids, thanks to home daycare and an awesome nanny when the kids got older.

I do think the trend is going to be for having kids earlier and then doing career. That's where I think youth are headed --- lower income always have kids earlier. Upper income have moved earlier also. UMC/professional class next. There will always be women having kids when older but I think you will see a trend younger soon.

No SATC either to glamorize working in the city and finding a Big at age 45.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know people are just responding to brunch granny, buy beyond the inflammatory trolling, there is a grain of truth there. The 21st century economy is incompatible with raising kids with two parents in the workforce. As a result, the birth rate will continue to decline. I would love it if our society didn’t view anyone over 40 as “past it,” allowing women to have children young *if they want* and then having a career later.

I have three and needed IVF for 2. I would have loved to have 4, but it was impossible. In our 20s, my husband and I were struggling with student loans and trying to get jobs. It’s only gotten worse.

I feel very lucky then because my husband and I both managed to work full time the entire time we were raising our kids, thanks to home daycare and an awesome nanny when the kids got older.

I do think the trend is going to be for having kids earlier and then doing career. That's where I think youth are headed --- lower income always have kids earlier. Upper income have moved earlier also. UMC/professional class next. There will always be women having kids when older but I think you will see a trend younger soon.

The trend will be going childfree.

I wish. Instead the only people having babies will be immigrants and religious zealots.

Oh no! Immigrants!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know people are just responding to brunch granny, buy beyond the inflammatory trolling, there is a grain of truth there. The 21st century economy is incompatible with raising kids with two parents in the workforce. As a result, the birth rate will continue to decline. I would love it if our society didn’t view anyone over 40 as “past it,” allowing women to have children young *if they want* and then having a career later.

I have three and needed IVF for 2. I would have loved to have 4, but it was impossible. In our 20s, my husband and I were struggling with student loans and trying to get jobs. It’s only gotten worse.

I feel very lucky then because my husband and I both managed to work full time the entire time we were raising our kids, thanks to home daycare and an awesome nanny when the kids got older.

I do think the trend is going to be for having kids earlier and then doing career. That's where I think youth are headed --- lower income always have kids earlier. Upper income have moved earlier also. UMC/professional class next. There will always be women having kids when older but I think you will see a trend younger soon.

The trend will be going childfree.

I wish. Instead the only people having babies will be immigrants and religious zealots.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know people are just responding to brunch granny, buy beyond the inflammatory trolling, there is a grain of truth there. The 21st century economy is incompatible with raising kids with two parents in the workforce. As a result, the birth rate will continue to decline. I would love it if our society didn’t view anyone over 40 as “past it,” allowing women to have children young *if they want* and then having a career later.

I have three and needed IVF for 2. I would have loved to have 4, but it was impossible. In our 20s, my husband and I were struggling with student loans and trying to get jobs. It’s only gotten worse.

I feel very lucky then because my husband and I both managed to work full time the entire time we were raising our kids, thanks to home daycare and an awesome nanny when the kids got older.

I do think the trend is going to be for having kids earlier and then doing career. That's where I think youth are headed --- lower income always have kids earlier. Upper income have moved earlier also. UMC/professional class next. There will always be women having kids when older but I think you will see a trend younger soon.

The trend will be going childfree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also she brags about her 21 year old daughter who married a med student. So old school. I would rather that my daughter was the doctor, not the doctors wife.

+100

Didn't gen X nana say her oldest daughter was an RN or a teacher? Hardly an insignificant career, with both requiring a master's degree and offering great pay vis a vis work-life balance, plus great health care and fringe benefits. You jaded spinsters – and don't deny that you're not, you're fooling no one – are twisting everything to paint her as low class white trash, with a barefoot and pregnant SAHM 20-something daughter and some budding MD son in law who of course cheats on her with classmates and will divorce her to marry some surgeon or lawyer. Your cynicism suggests you're deeply unhappy.

Why would jaded spinsters be on a site for MOMS? The vast majority of people on here are mothers.

DCUM hasn't been majority mum in years. The political, off topic, entertainment, and real estate sub-forums especially attracted a lot of unwed women and men.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also she brags about her 21 year old daughter who married a med student. So old school. I would rather that my daughter was the doctor, not the doctors wife.

+100

Didn't gen X nana say her oldest daughter was an RN or a teacher? Hardly an insignificant career, with both requiring a master's degree and offering great pay vis a vis work-life balance, plus great health care and fringe benefits. You jaded spinsters – and don't deny that you're not, you're fooling no one – are twisting everything to paint her as low class white trash, with a barefoot and pregnant SAHM 20-something daughter and some budding MD son in law who of course cheats on her with classmates and will divorce her to marry some surgeon or lawyer. Your cynicism suggests you're deeply unhappy.

Why would jaded spinsters be on a site for MOMS? The vast majority of people on here are mothers.

Speaking as a jaded spinster, it's a very entertaining and sometimes useful site. Quite addictive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know people are just responding to brunch granny, buy beyond the inflammatory trolling, there is a grain of truth there. The 21st century economy is incompatible with raising kids with two parents in the workforce. As a result, the birth rate will continue to decline. I would love it if our society didn’t view anyone over 40 as “past it,” allowing women to have children young *if they want* and then having a career later.

I have three and needed IVF for 2. I would have loved to have 4, but it was impossible. In our 20s, my husband and I were struggling with student loans and trying to get jobs. It’s only gotten worse.

I feel very lucky then because my husband and I both managed to work full time the entire time we were raising our kids, thanks to home daycare and an awesome nanny when the kids got older.

I do think the trend is going to be for having kids earlier and then doing career. That's where I think youth are headed --- lower income always have kids earlier. Upper income have moved earlier also. UMC/professional class next. There will always be women having kids when older but I think you will see a trend younger soon.

And that's fine if the rest of society stops being ageist. Employers seem to like younger people when hiring. The advantage older people have is experience. So if women go back to having kids young and waiting to join the workforce, I am wondering if the men who have stayed in the workforce will be more competitive than them and of course depending on the career women will have to be content in making less money as they haven't built up their career and the qualifications they got when younger won't be as relevant by the time they have had a few years out of work and raising their family. Of course they could put off study till later however would have to juggle study and raising a family. Possibly a way around this is part time work. So possibly when family is more expensive they will be earning less as they are re-entering the workplace.

As well as that if women are out of the workforce for all those years they will not be earning money towards their superannuation and retirement. That's ok if they stay married but can lead to problems later, I suppose retirement funds can be divided in divorce. There's also the problem if the marriage doesn't last and the women has kids and no career and is now divorced. It's going back full circle, these were the issues which led to women entering the workplace. Also most households need 2 incomes so having kids and delaying a career doesn't help with that.

However I think people are smart enough to work out what they want in their own life and one shoe doesn't fit all.

As for brunch, I love brunch to catch up with friends and family to nourish my relationships and friendships as its important to me. I don't drink alcohol but love to get together to connect and talk. I actually have a coffee but I don't judge others if they want a margarita. I'm not sure why others see it so different to having lunch or dinner and why it is seen as wasting away your years. You can do brunch and still date. Is it different for men seeing their friends for a meal and beer to watch a game at a bar? I'm guessing it's ok for men, right?

As for granny, nuns don't have a partner or children, do you think they are wasting their life or are they ok because it's in religious pursuit and they are serving God? Don't you think other women may choose not to have kids, not want grandkids and are not living the life you have painted. People may not have children but can do other things which are worthwhile. It might surprise you but the life you say you have isn't something I would choose, seriously not everyone wants that or would be fulfilled by that. I also think some people may choose adoption or fostering however DNA seems important to you. I guess religion can be rigid, black and white thinking, go forth and multiple etc.

I also believe that if women want children they will do that when it's right for them and that varies for everyone. Women now have choice and that surely is a great thing.

I'm just joining in but what is the problem?

Anonymous wrote:Nothing less than two high-powered business executives, white show law firm attorneys, or surgeons for my son or daughter AND their spouse! That way they can both be stressed out, work relentless hours, and pay strangers to raise their kids! If my child or their spouse becomes something "pink" like a $100k nurse or $75k inner-city public school teacher with summers, holidays and weekends off, I will NOT pay for the wedding!

Big law partner here. The job is not compatible with two Big law partners or similar jobs. I know there are examples out there but I am not sure how the family would function. If you had substantial hired and family help it can be done. Otherwise it can't. Two working spouse -- sure -- two each making 2 million a year and travelling every week and working 40-80 hours a week depending? Who would want that. If you found yourself in that situation because you both were great then of course you could deal. But again, who would want to?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know people are just responding to brunch granny, buy beyond the inflammatory trolling, there is a grain of truth there. The 21st century economy is incompatible with raising kids with two parents in the workforce. As a result, the birth rate will continue to decline. I would love it if our society didn’t view anyone over 40 as “past it,” allowing women to have children young *if they want* and then having a career later.

I have three and needed IVF for 2. I would have loved to have 4, but it was impossible. In our 20s, my husband and I were struggling with student loans and trying to get jobs. It’s only gotten worse.

I feel very lucky then because my husband and I both managed to work full time the entire time we were raising our kids, thanks to home daycare and an awesome nanny when the kids got older.

I do think the trend is going to be for having kids earlier and then doing career. That's where I think youth are headed --- lower income always have kids earlier. Upper income have moved earlier also. UMC/professional class next. There will always be women having kids when older but I think you will see a trend younger soon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also she brags about her 21 year old daughter who married a med student. So old school. I would rather that my daughter was the doctor, not the doctors wife.

+100

Didn't gen X nana say her oldest daughter was an RN or a teacher? Hardly an insignificant career, with both requiring a master's degree and offering great pay vis a vis work-life balance, plus great health care and fringe benefits. You jaded spinsters – and don't deny that you're not, you're fooling no one – are twisting everything to paint her as low class white trash, with a barefoot and pregnant SAHM 20-something daughter and some budding MD son in law who of course cheats on her with classmates and will divorce her to marry some surgeon or lawyer. Your cynicism suggests you're deeply unhappy.

Why would jaded spinsters be on a site for MOMS? The vast majority of people on here are mothers.

Buit none of you had 7 BIOLOGICAL (super important) children in your 20s and early 30s, so you fail at the art of mothering.