Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"It’s the responsibility of the person holding the gun to make sure it is not loaded. Period."

Says who? In a normal situation when a person voluntarily shoots a gun without supervision, sure.

I'm not the PP, but I concur with the sentiment. I am sure actors and other staff assume and trust the armorers all the time. I just know that no one is ever going to be as concerned about my safety as I am.

I am curious to hear from people who know more about movie sets than I do why they still use weapons that can shoot anything.

I just don’t see actors stopping and checking a prop gun every time it’s handed to them and the assistant director and armorer say cold gun.

I would be terrified to point a gun to someone's head or chest without first checking if it was loaded. It takes 2 seconds. Assuming cold gun means unloaded.

No, see there's your problem. Movie set guns ARE LOADED with blanks. Blanks look like bullets. The prop person makes sure everything is safe. The actor would not be expected to check the gun every time, because it is assumed the prop person already did it. Alec Baldwin should not be held liable for this. This is a workplace accident. Just like at a factory or a construction site.

No. Just no.

Blanks don’t “look like bullets”

Blanks look like rounds of ammunition with a case crimp where the bullet would normally be seated in an actual round of live ammunition. The two look nothing alike when viewed from any angle other than directly from the bottom of the case. In a revolver, where only the bottom of the case is visible, this has to be verified by looking at the front of the cylinder and rotating the cylinder to examine all the chambers. That might take 5-6 whole seconds. I think they probably have enough time for that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I just don’t see actors stopping and checking a prop gun every time it’s handed to them and the assistant director and armorer say cold gun.

I bet most actors won't mind checking, now.

Do they even know how to? I'd argue that the armorer should be there before the film starts rolling and walk them through it. I've had about 50 hours of weapons training with highly trained professionals that do it for a living. This was training for non-military, but official travel to a dangerous area, so we were trained with live rounds. A LOT of live rounds. 50 hours is not a ton, but I bet it's more that 90% of the adult population. On my own, I could reliably clear a Glock, a shotgun (probably), and a revolver. Something antique or replica? Very hard to say.

From my training I personally would not be comfortable using a weapon where the trigger worked without personally being walked through the clearing procedure. I don't think that is the same standard for actors on set where rule #1 is NO LIVE ROUNDS.

You trained 50 HOURS! and you can only function-check/clear a Glock, a revolver and *maybe* a shotgun?

WTAF? What kind of training was this? I taught my mother how handle, function-check, load, shoot, clear, field strip, clean and reassemble an AR in less than an hour. My 76 year old mother. In less than an hour.

I’m baffled by your post. Just baffled.

DP. I don't want to meet your mother when she's anywhere near a gun.

Why not? She’s great!

I guess I should’ve mentioned that she has some familiarity with other guns and was maybe 7-8 years old the first time she shot one - but the AR platform was new to her. But she already understood the principles of safe handling long before I was even born. So really it was just teaching her the mechanics of the rifle itself - which are pretty straightforward once you understand how it functions.

But even with an absolute neophyte (whom I’ve trained quite a few of) we’re only talking about 3-4 hours from introduction to safe handling, to operating principles, to mechanical function, to loading, sight picture, firing proficiency, malfunction clearing, cleaning and disassembly. I typically start new shooters with a Browning Buckmark .22 semiautomatic pistol, and by lunchtime they are shooting proficiently enough after 300-400 rounds that they want to progress to something larger after lunch.

My USA depot armorer’s course for the M249 SAW, M240B GPMG and M2HB HMG didn’t even take 50 hours, and I can assure you, belt fed machineguns are a LOT more complicated to operate (and repair) than a basic semiautomatic pistol like a Glock, a revolver and a (presumably) pump shotgun.

That’s why I’m having such a hard time believing that someone received 50 hours of training and ONLY gained enough familiarity with unloading/clearing the two most basic, simple handguns in existence, plus a shotgun (which is equally simple).

50 hours is five ten-hour days. FIVE!

What the Hell else were they doing all this time? It takes about 5 minutes to understand how a basic semiautomatic pistol like a Glock functions. Even less for a revolver. You could spend the entire remaining 49 hours and 50 minutes shooting, because you’ve already learned how they both work in 10 minutes.

So yeah, I’m calling BS on the “I had 50 hours of training and I only learned how to unload and clear two really simple handguns”.

I feel bad that this happened to Alec Baldwin, but let's face it: if this had happened to ANYONE else, he'd be ripping them apart for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve worked on many movie sets and several things went wrong to culminate in an accident like this. Several people f-ed up. Alec Baldwin, as the actor, is completely blameless. No actor can or should ever examine the firearm.

Alec’s Baldwin, a producer on this film, may well bear liability however.

Some idiot upthread saw that Alec Baldwin was a producer on this film and decided he was *the* producer. No, not even a little. There’s an executive producer, who is not him. He is a star who got paid with a title and a chunk of the proceeds. This is standard for a low budget flick with one big name. This does not give him any actual responsibility for the safety of the production.

PP here. Depends on his contract. He could be named in the wrongful death or negligence suit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"It’s the responsibility of the person holding the gun to make sure it is not loaded. Period."

Says who? In a normal situation when a person voluntarily shoots a gun without supervision, sure.

I'm not the PP, but I concur with the sentiment. I am sure actors and other staff assume and trust the armorers all the time. I just know that no one is ever going to be as concerned about my safety as I am.

I am curious to hear from people who know more about movie sets than I do why they still use weapons that can shoot anything.

I just don’t see actors stopping and checking a prop gun every time it’s handed to them and the assistant director and armorer say cold gun.

I would be terrified to point a gun to someone's head or chest without first checking if it was loaded. It takes 2 seconds. Assuming cold gun means unloaded.

No, see there's your problem. Movie set guns ARE LOADED with blanks. Blanks look like bullets. The prop person makes sure everything is safe. The actor would not be expected to check the gun every time, because it is assumed the prop person already did it. Alec Baldwin should not be held liable for this. This is a workplace accident. Just like at a factory or a construction site.

Anonymous wrote:I’ve worked on many movie sets and several things went wrong to culminate in an accident like this. Several people f-ed up. Alec Baldwin, as the actor, is completely blameless. No actor can or should ever examine the firearm.

Alec’s Baldwin, a producer on this film, may well bear liability however.

Some idiot upthread saw that Alec Baldwin was a producer on this film and decided he was *the* producer. No, not even a little. There’s an executive producer, who is not him. He is a star who got paid with a title and a chunk of the proceeds. This is standard for a low budget flick with one big name. This does not give him any actual responsibility for the safety of the production.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I just don’t see actors stopping and checking a prop gun every time it’s handed to them and the assistant director and armorer say cold gun.

I bet most actors won't mind checking, now.

Do they even know how to? I'd argue that the armorer should be there before the film starts rolling and walk them through it. I've had about 50 hours of weapons training with highly trained professionals that do it for a living. This was training for non-military, but official travel to a dangerous area, so we were trained with live rounds. A LOT of live rounds. 50 hours is not a ton, but I bet it's more that 90% of the adult population. On my own, I could reliably clear a Glock, a shotgun (probably), and a revolver. Something antique or replica? Very hard to say.

From my training I personally would not be comfortable using a weapon where the trigger worked without personally being walked through the clearing procedure. I don't think that is the same standard for actors on set where rule #1 is NO LIVE ROUNDS.

You trained 50 HOURS! and you can only function-check/clear a Glock, a revolver and *maybe* a shotgun?

WTAF? What kind of training was this? I taught my mother how handle, function-check, load, shoot, clear, field strip, clean and reassemble an AR in less than an hour. My 76 year old mother. In less than an hour.

I’m baffled by your post. Just baffled.

It's pretty clear who the thorough and responsible person is, PP. (Not you.)

Anonymous wrote:I’ve worked on many movie sets and several things went wrong to culminate in an accident like this. Several people f-ed up. Alec Baldwin, as the actor, is completely blameless. No actor can or should ever examine the firearm.

Alec’s Baldwin, a producer on this film, may well bear liability however.

Thank you. The actor never inspects the fire arm. That’s crazy talk.
- IA member from unthread

Anonymous wrote:Seems Donald Trump Jr. is trolling Alec Baldwin.

What's wrong with the spawn of Trump? Why are they such assboils?

It’s genetic.

I’ve worked on many movie sets and several things went wrong to culminate in an accident like this. Several people f-ed up. Alec Baldwin, as the actor, is completely blameless. No actor can or should ever examine the firearm.

Alec’s Baldwin, a producer on this film, may well bear liability however.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I just don’t see actors stopping and checking a prop gun every time it’s handed to them and the assistant director and armorer say cold gun.

I bet most actors won't mind checking, now.

Do they even know how to? I'd argue that the armorer should be there before the film starts rolling and walk them through it. I've had about 50 hours of weapons training with highly trained professionals that do it for a living. This was training for non-military, but official travel to a dangerous area, so we were trained with live rounds. A LOT of live rounds. 50 hours is not a ton, but I bet it's more that 90% of the adult population. On my own, I could reliably clear a Glock, a shotgun (probably), and a revolver. Something antique or replica? Very hard to say.

From my training I personally would not be comfortable using a weapon where the trigger worked without personally being walked through the clearing procedure. I don't think that is the same standard for actors on set where rule #1 is NO LIVE ROUNDS.

You trained 50 HOURS! and you can only function-check/clear a Glock, a revolver and *maybe* a shotgun?

WTAF? What kind of training was this? I taught my mother how handle, function-check, load, shoot, clear, field strip, clean and reassemble an AR in less than an hour. My 76 year old mother. In less than an hour.

I’m baffled by your post. Just baffled.

This is a disturbing flex.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I just don’t see actors stopping and checking a prop gun every time it’s handed to them and the assistant director and armorer say cold gun.

I bet most actors won't mind checking, now.

Do they even know how to? I'd argue that the armorer should be there before the film starts rolling and walk them through it. I've had about 50 hours of weapons training with highly trained professionals that do it for a living. This was training for non-military, but official travel to a dangerous area, so we were trained with live rounds. A LOT of live rounds. 50 hours is not a ton, but I bet it's more that 90% of the adult population. On my own, I could reliably clear a Glock, a shotgun (probably), and a revolver. Something antique or replica? Very hard to say.

From my training I personally would not be comfortable using a weapon where the trigger worked without personally being walked through the clearing procedure. I don't think that is the same standard for actors on set where rule #1 is NO LIVE ROUNDS.

You trained 50 HOURS! and you can only function-check/clear a Glock, a revolver and *maybe* a shotgun?

WTAF? What kind of training was this? I taught my mother how handle, function-check, load, shoot, clear, field strip, clean and reassemble an AR in less than an hour. My 76 year old mother. In less than an hour.

I’m baffled by your post. Just baffled.

You taught her from zero knowledge to passing multiple safety tests and a target test requiring distance, close, and one hand shooting behind a barrier with a pass of 25 shots out of 30 in an hour. Sure you did.

I'm not talking about you teaching granny to shoot (or more likely fail to) some random intruder. Weapons training for people that might actually need to used one in day to day life - law enforcement, military, select other gov is heavily focused on safety and knowledge as well as simulating real-life scenarios. And it takes a heck of a lot more than an hour. The 10 hour course I had many years ago in addition to the 40 more recently featured significant classroom time focused on safe handling practices and non-live weapon scenarios.

That's why I said I think an armorer should walk an actor through clearing a weapon. An armorer should be an expert on weapons. Most people are not (including myself.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I just don’t see actors stopping and checking a prop gun every time it’s handed to them and the assistant director and armorer say cold gun.

I bet most actors won't mind checking, now.

Do they even know how to? I'd argue that the armorer should be there before the film starts rolling and walk them through it. I've had about 50 hours of weapons training with highly trained professionals that do it for a living. This was training for non-military, but official travel to a dangerous area, so we were trained with live rounds. A LOT of live rounds. 50 hours is not a ton, but I bet it's more that 90% of the adult population. On my own, I could reliably clear a Glock, a shotgun (probably), and a revolver. Something antique or replica? Very hard to say.

From my training I personally would not be comfortable using a weapon where the trigger worked without personally being walked through the clearing procedure. I don't think that is the same standard for actors on set where rule #1 is NO LIVE ROUNDS.

You trained 50 HOURS! and you can only function-check/clear a Glock, a revolver and *maybe* a shotgun?

WTAF? What kind of training was this? I taught my mother how handle, function-check, load, shoot, clear, field strip, clean and reassemble an AR in less than an hour. My 76 year old mother. In less than an hour.

I’m baffled by your post. Just baffled.

DP. I don't want to meet your mother when she's anywhere near a gun.

I’ve had the same training as the 50 hours guy and agree with him. I’m good with a glock or my rifle. Not sure about everything else always.

Seems Donald Trump Jr. is trolling Alec Baldwin.

What's wrong with the spawn of Trump? Why are they such assboils?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I just don’t see actors stopping and checking a prop gun every time it’s handed to them and the assistant director and armorer say cold gun.

I bet most actors won't mind checking, now.

Do they even know how to? I'd argue that the armorer should be there before the film starts rolling and walk them through it. I've had about 50 hours of weapons training with highly trained professionals that do it for a living. This was training for non-military, but official travel to a dangerous area, so we were trained with live rounds. A LOT of live rounds. 50 hours is not a ton, but I bet it's more that 90% of the adult population. On my own, I could reliably clear a Glock, a shotgun (probably), and a revolver. Something antique or replica? Very hard to say.

From my training I personally would not be comfortable using a weapon where the trigger worked without personally being walked through the clearing procedure. I don't think that is the same standard for actors on set where rule #1 is NO LIVE ROUNDS.

You trained 50 HOURS! and you can only function-check/clear a Glock, a revolver and *maybe* a shotgun?

WTAF? What kind of training was this? I taught my mother how handle, function-check, load, shoot, clear, field strip, clean and reassemble an AR in less than an hour. My 76 year old mother. In less than an hour.

I’m baffled by your post. Just baffled.

DP. I don't want to meet your mother when she's anywhere near a gun.