ok so your kid knows one smart athlete. when you get to a top college it is striking how different the academic strengths are of the athletes vs the non athlete.

I have three kids that went to “top colleges” (Ivy) and were athletes. They were also NMSF or commended, one DS was valedictorian and all graduated in the top 10% of their class. They also have graduated with honors from college. I also got to know their college teammates/roommates/friends from years of attending their athletic events. In every case, the vast majority of their teammates were kids who were definitely in the mix in terms of intelligence and academic achievement. Each of my kids certainly had teammates who absolutely would not have been admitted absent their sport, but that was the exception and not the rule.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So STA teachers or administrators with access to student records are posting trends that they see in confidential class records on DCUM?

Very professional.

Not a teacher or Admin so relax.

If you were an STA parent you would know that the school shows the aggregate Naviance SAT/ACT scores/GPA graphs to each parent cohort ahead of the admissions start cycle Junior year. Its part of how they set expectations with parents who have high expectations.

Then, the NMSF list is published.

The boys have been together for a number of years and we are talking about maybe 30 HS seniors so its not hard to throw those stats together.

No one is talking about individual boys. Just suffice it to say that about 1/3 of the class at STA gets A to A- in honors track and above 1400 on the STA. I think that is a good reflection on their hard work and that of the school and its outstanding faculty.

Little known fact: Michael Phelps went on to obtain a PhD in physics are retiring. Said it was the easiest thing he’d ever done after all the swim practice.

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Anonymous wrote:Everything we have seen supports the predictions. Full pay ED admissions are way up and those full pay families we know who “reached” within reason were for the most part accepted. Families we know to have applied with financial aid have had mixed results on ED, even at “need blind” schools. This is unfortunately the year that will be a step back in terms of equitable access to higher Ed.

At our big 3 private we know at least 10 full pay kids (ours included) that did not get into their ED choice. Many rejected, some deferred.

And the rate for kids who would not be full pay is even lower.

Probably true. I am just disputing the fact the full pay kids are being admitted in droves to their ED schools. It seems harder for ED admits this year.

The issue this year is that with testing being optional too many attempted to reach excessively with their ED applications. Those who reached reasonably had solid results, especially among full pay families. ED isn’t about trying to get into a school for which the applicant barely qualifies and that’s what it appears to have been for many. An unfortunate waste of an ED application.

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Anonymous wrote:ok so your kid knows one smart athlete. when you get to a top college it is striking how different the academic strengths are of the athletes vs the non athlete.

I was an athlete in college and its always amusing to me that some people feel the need to put young people in categories.

If you are an Olympic swimmer ... OK cool, but the law of nature is assumed to be that that's all you got and you are - aside from that an idiot.

To the contrary, what is born out is that being a really good athlete takes more than talent. It requires a great deal of perseverance, determination, high pain threshold and enough of an imagination to dream big... then never give up.

In other words, after 3 hours a day of that for 4-6 years since age 13, AP Physics might just be a walk in the park. Especially, if Dad was a science geek.

Anonymous wrote:So STA teachers or administrators with access to student records are posting trends that they see in confidential class records on DCUM?

Very professional.

Not a teacher or Admin so relax.

If you were an STA parent you would know that the school shows the aggregate Naviance SAT/ACT scores/GPA graphs to each parent cohort ahead of the admissions start cycle Junior year. Its part of how they set expectations with parents who have high expectations.

Then, the NMSF list is published.

The boys have been together for a number of years and we are talking about maybe 30 HS seniors so its not hard to throw those stats together.

No one is talking about individual boys. Just suffice it to say that about 1/3 of the class at STA gets A to A- in honors track and above 1400 on the STA. I think that is a good reflection on their hard work and that of the school and its outstanding faculty.

ok so your kid knows one smart athlete. when you get to a top college it is striking how different the academic strengths are of the athletes vs the non athlete.

Anonymous wrote:Why do people bother with EDs anyway? Don't half of the spots go to recruited athletes?

The purpose of ED is to facilitate a school having its " knowns known" and being able to then set its budget, particularly in regard to FA. A certain portion of ED admits will be legacies and development cases- often one and the same. A former AD at Princeton wrote a good piece on this AKA the " Chancellor's List "

Then comes the top pick athletes that the school really wants and that might need FA

The percentage of each of those pots that ends up being offered admission depends on the school- and even the year.

Penn def favors legacy more than most other Ivy League school and I think I read on college confidential that 30 % of their class is legacy admit and 300 of their ED spots were filled by athletes. Certainly that is A LOT, but its not half the ED spots offered at Penn- most actually go to legacies.

Think of the Trumps.

I don't think they did any sports....

Other Ivy league schools admit as low as 12% of class coming from legacy and give more FA to bright kids from low income homes- as in HHI less than 75K a year.

Don't assume athletes are not academically qualified. People may wish to believe that, but at DC's school at least one recruited athlete was also a NMSF and many were honorable mention. Most take only AP/ honors and are also nationally ranked in their sport.

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Anonymous wrote:Everyone I’ve heard from is basically not getting in where they thought they would due in part to a lot more applicants than expected.

I think it has more to do with test optional. Let’s all those grade inflators (public schools) benefit and those grade deflators (big 3) get hurt. I predict worst college placement for the Cathedral schools as their insistence on not inflating grades like everyone else will hurt their students in a way that they will reconsider their anemic approach to giving an A.

Honestly, at some point, if what you are saying is true about Big 3 kids being disadvantaged is true, it will ruin the business model of these schools, and they will be forced to change. No one is going to pay 45K+ for the chance to lose out to public school kids of grading differences. The education is often really good but not that good.

The education is great. Full stop. But not playing the grade inflation game, when everyone is playing it, hurts college admissions chances. Full stop.

This whining has got to stop. The colleges and universities are all familiar with Washington’s tops schools and understand the grading disparities. This is simply a non issue that folks hold onto to get over the insecurities of their children not receiving offers from the top schools.

I think this is correct. The grading differences are NOT new. I went to a top boarding school in the 90s. Each year, only about 7% kids graduated with an average above 90. People were complaining about the same grading issues too at that time.

I don't know what the answer is here or if anything needs to change ( weighted GPA for AP/ Honors, for example) but ZERO chance Cathedral schools EVER inflate grades. That will NEVER happen.

What is interesting though is the above STAT .

I have seen that born out in Naviance. Very few kids with an average above a 90 and about 1 student in the class/ 90 kids with an average above a 96

Yet, 1/3 of the same graduating class achieve NMSF or Commended, which I think means a 1450 or higher ?

Pretty reflective of the high academic standards and rigor at a school where you can be in top 1-3% of SAT test results out of 2.5 Million Nationally and still only get a B + at NCS/STA because that is just what the teachers are used to in terms of quality of writing, level of work.

Actually, I believe your numbers are a little off. I know a lot of boys at STA who have A- averages and they are not the super motivated genius types. They are the sporty partying type, so there are plenty of A students at STA. It is a myth that getting As at STA is only for the top boys.

There a 2 tracks: AP and Regular.

And, yes, STA has the bulk of its students in the non- AP track ( only about 15-20/90 in the class are full AP track ) so of course they have a lot of sporty boys who make A grades, but that is an A in regular math or physics or the easier History section.

I was speaking of those in the AP track. I think there were 28 in the class of 90 who were commended for NM and 4-5 NMSF. A good portion of those same boys were also recruited athletes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything we have seen supports the predictions. Full pay ED admissions are way up and those full pay families we know who “reached” within reason were for the most part accepted. Families we know to have applied with financial aid have had mixed results on ED, even at “need blind” schools. This is unfortunately the year that will be a step back in terms of equitable access to higher Ed.

At our big 3 private we know at least 10 full pay kids (ours included) that did not get into their ED choice. Many rejected, some deferred.

And the rate for kids who would not be full pay is even lower.

Not exactly. If you fit into a college's designated wishlist they will accept you early.

Why do people bother with EDs anyway? Don't half of the spots go to recruited athletes?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything we have seen supports the predictions. Full pay ED admissions are way up and those full pay families we know who “reached” within reason were for the most part accepted. Families we know to have applied with financial aid have had mixed results on ED, even at “need blind” schools. This is unfortunately the year that will be a step back in terms of equitable access to higher Ed.

At our big 3 private we know at least 10 full pay kids (ours included) that did not get into their ED choice. Many rejected, some deferred.

And the rate for kids who would not be full pay is even lower.

Probably true. I am just disputing the fact the full pay kids are being admitted in droves to their ED schools. It seems harder for ED admits this year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything we have seen supports the predictions. Full pay ED admissions are way up and those full pay families we know who “reached” within reason were for the most part accepted. Families we know to have applied with financial aid have had mixed results on ED, even at “need blind” schools. This is unfortunately the year that will be a step back in terms of equitable access to higher Ed.

At our big 3 private we know at least 10 full pay kids (ours included) that did not get into their ED choice. Many rejected, some deferred.

And the rate for kids who would not be full pay is even lower.

Anonymous wrote:Everything we have seen supports the predictions. Full pay ED admissions are way up and those full pay families we know who “reached” within reason were for the most part accepted. Families we know to have applied with financial aid have had mixed results on ED, even at “need blind” schools. This is unfortunately the year that will be a step back in terms of equitable access to higher Ed.

At our big 3 private we know at least 10 full pay kids (ours included) that did not get into their ED choice. Many rejected, some deferred.

Everything we have seen supports the predictions. Full pay ED admissions are way up and those full pay families we know who “reached” within reason were for the most part accepted. Families we know to have applied with financial aid have had mixed results on ED, even at “need blind” schools. This is unfortunately the year that will be a step back in terms of equitable access to higher Ed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So STA teachers or administrators with access to student records are posting trends that they see in confidential class records on DCUM?

Very professional.

PP didn’t say they work at STA.

You seem a bit defensive. Why is that?

PP didn’t say they were human either. It’s a conspiracy!