Anonymous wrote:Anyone find the title of this thread ironic at this point?

This x100000.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone find the title of this thread ironic at this point?

I do. But whoever wrote it obviously just looked at the quack stuff APS put out and assumed its numbers were right. APS has a long history of not being able to add, a la forgetting to add ALL of the planning units it had zoned for McKinley.

This also means we can’t trust anything they are saying about numbers now.

Anyone find the title of this thread ironic at this point?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tuckahoe is off the table
Nottingham, McKinley and Discovery are all the table

Where do you see Mck and Discovery being on the table?

They are all up for discussion. See table 2 in the ppt from last nights working session potential walkers by targeted elementary sites.

Of the four considerations for potential option schools, Nottingham meets 3 of the 4 criteria. McK and Discovery meet only 1. None of them meet the geographic criteria. If any of these three schools is chosen for an option school it will be Nottingham.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tuckahoe is off the table
Nottingham, McKinley and Discovery are all the table

Where do you see Mck and Discovery being on the table?

They are all up for discussion. See table 2 in the ppt from last nights working session potential walkers by targeted elementary sites.

Exactly! You can’t force anyone into an option program. APS staff has not thought at all about changes in behavior resulting from these decisions.

And moving ATS further North would certainly make it much more difficult for S Arlington families. It would essentially become a N Arlington option program at Nottingham.

They aren’t even waiting to see how the new county wide lottery process impacts things. Just using this year’s applications is not enough.

Anonymous wrote:Tuckahoe is off the table
Nottingham, McKinley and Discovery are all the table

Where do you see Mck and Discovery being on the table?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, I suspect that the western end of the Pike does not need another neighborhood school unless Carlin Springs is made into an option school. All three surrounding schools are under capacity (Barcroft, Carlin Springs and Randolph). Perhaps they could move some of kids north of 50 zoned for ashlawn to Carlin Springs, and then zone the lower end of Carlin Springs and Abingdon to Campbell. I suspect that would never happen because the Ashlawn parents would revolt.

Also, if the goal is to make Campbell bigger, that won't happen. There is very little room for more trailers and the wetland features on the property prevent cost-effective expansion (too many federal permits). So, if it becomes a neighborhood school, it will remain teeny.

Where will all the kids going to Carlin Springs be moved if it becomes an option school? The school is hundreds of seats bigger than Campbell, and beyond the kids in the Campbell walk zone, where do the other 250 kids get bused? And how can they plan to have such a small neighborhood school for an area so dense with kids? Those kids aren't going anywhere either. All the family-sized CAFs all around there mean there will NEVER be fewer students at any neighborhood school in this quadrant. So where do they go? The can't all fit at a 400 seat neighborhood school. Are they going to be forced from their larger newer school into a small old school with a field full of permanent trailers? I guess the message that they're considered "lesser-than" hasn't been communicated to them explicitly enough yet?

I don’t think they will move anything to Carlin Springs. Staff wanting the ability to grow option programs is what was driving talking about Carlin Springs, but Campbell may have to be an exception to that and stay where it is.

Perhaps they just swap Key and ASFS and be done with this exercise.

I really don't understand how Staff synthesized the feedback they've gotten. All the bitter complaining about the unfair small size of option schools has been mainly about HB, which is not being enlarged or moved to a bigger space in any scenario. There was also some complaining about ATS, and they do have an extensive waitlist that would indicate demand outstrips supply. Not sure how the other programs got dragged into this mess. The Immersions schools are already huge, and AFAIK, have gotten that way by taking their entire waitlists. But without the neighborhood preferences/guarantees, I think the Immersion programs won't grow at the rate they have been either. They may even shrink. And Campbell is definitely a niche school. I really can't see demand growing too much beyond its current size, because the program is not everyone's cup of tea. That could also change I suppose, but seems like a big gamble to plan around potentials rather than realities. What if they move option schools to bigger spaces and then they don't fill up? What then?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, I suspect that the western end of the Pike does not need another neighborhood school unless Carlin Springs is made into an option school. All three surrounding schools are under capacity (Barcroft, Carlin Springs and Randolph). Perhaps they could move some of kids north of 50 zoned for ashlawn to Carlin Springs, and then zone the lower end of Carlin Springs and Abingdon to Campbell. I suspect that would never happen because the Ashlawn parents would revolt.

Also, if the goal is to make Campbell bigger, that won't happen. There is very little room for more trailers and the wetland features on the property prevent cost-effective expansion (too many federal permits). So, if it becomes a neighborhood school, it will remain teeny.

Where will all the kids going to Carlin Springs be moved if it becomes an option school? The school is hundreds of seats bigger than Campbell, and beyond the kids in the Campbell walk zone, where do the other 250 kids get bused? And how can they plan to have such a small neighborhood school for an area so dense with kids? Those kids aren't going anywhere either. All the family-sized CAFs all around there mean there will NEVER be fewer students at any neighborhood school in this quadrant. So where do they go? The can't all fit at a 400 seat neighborhood school. Are they going to be forced from their larger newer school into a small old school with a field full of permanent trailers? I guess the message that they're considered "lesser-than" hasn't been communicated to them explicitly enough yet?

I don’t think they will move anything to Carlin Springs. Staff wanting the ability to grow option programs is what was driving talking about Carlin Springs, but Campbell may have to be an exception to that and stay where it is.

Perhaps they just swap Key and ASFS and be done with this exercise.

Anonymous wrote:And, I suspect that the western end of the Pike does not need another neighborhood school unless Carlin Springs is made into an option school. All three surrounding schools are under capacity (Barcroft, Carlin Springs and Randolph). Perhaps they could move some of kids north of 50 zoned for ashlawn to Carlin Springs, and then zone the lower end of Carlin Springs and Abingdon to Campbell. I suspect that would never happen because the Ashlawn parents would revolt.

Also, if the goal is to make Campbell bigger, that won't happen. There is very little room for more trailers and the wetland features on the property prevent cost-effective expansion (too many federal permits). So, if it becomes a neighborhood school, it will remain teeny.

Where will all the kids going to Carlin Springs be moved if it becomes an option school? The school is hundreds of seats bigger than Campbell, and beyond the kids in the Campbell walk zone, where do the other 250 kids get bused? And how can they plan to have such a small neighborhood school for an area so dense with kids? Those kids aren't going anywhere either. All the family-sized CAFs all around there mean there will NEVER be fewer students at any neighborhood school in this quadrant. So where do they go? The can't all fit at a 400 seat neighborhood school. Are they going to be forced from their larger newer school into a small old school with a field full of permanent trailers? I guess the message that they're considered "lesser-than" hasn't been communicated to them explicitly enough yet?

And, I suspect that the western end of the Pike does not need another neighborhood school unless Carlin Springs is made into an option school. All three surrounding schools are under capacity (Barcroft, Carlin Springs and Randolph). Perhaps they could move some of kids north of 50 zoned for ashlawn to Carlin Springs, and then zone the lower end of Carlin Springs and Abingdon to Campbell. I suspect that would never happen because the Ashlawn parents would revolt.

Also, if the goal is to make Campbell bigger, that won't happen. There is very little room for more trailers and the wetland features on the property prevent cost-effective expansion (too many federal permits). So, if it becomes a neighborhood school, it will remain teeny.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like Nottingham is OK being an option!

Why anyone in north Arlington would care one way or another baffles me, but I live in south Arlington, where the differences between neighboring neighborhood schools and option schools can be very large.

When the dust settles, the elementary schools, including options, will be even more economically segregated than now. It's going to be a really striking chart and I can't wait for arlnow to publish it.

What do you think they should have done?

I think if the 1% wants options they can get their nannies to drive a little farther south, that's what I think.

But then what happens to all of the kids in South Arlington who want a neighborhood school or don't get into an option school, but there's a massive seat deficit because all of the option programs have been crammed in there? Are you going to make them get on buses north instead of letting them go to school in their own neighborhoods?

Oakridge and Henry are really the only neighborhood schools in SA that are overcrowded. A lot of the boundary process is not just because of fleet being built. It's because UMC families with children have concentrated themselves in just two south Arlington neighborhood elementaries they deem good enough. Moving Campbell from arlingtons poorest part to its richest won't help that reality.

You're right that the boundary process isn't just about Fleet being built, but you're wrong about the motivation being the socioeconomic housing patterns in south Arlington. The real driving force is the budget crisis and the fact that APS doesn't think it's going to get better any time soon. If you're going to have to move some boundaries, better to go all-in and cut a few million dollars in transportation costs.

Well, I really don't think they're going to save much $$ on transportation by moving Campbell. It's highly walkable, but many of the kids in the walk zone are already at Campbell and could be made to walk. They could cut transportation costs without moving the program, if they stopped the "courtesy" busing. As long as the VPI classrooms are at option schools, kids from the Campbell walk zone will continue to be heavily represented at the school, even if it moves. Did nobody notice this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like Nottingham is OK being an option!

Why anyone in north Arlington would care one way or another baffles me, but I live in south Arlington, where the differences between neighboring neighborhood schools and option schools can be very large.

When the dust settles, the elementary schools, including options, will be even more economically segregated than now. It's going to be a really striking chart and I can't wait for arlnow to publish it.

What do you think they should have done?

I think if the 1% wants options they can get their nannies to drive a little farther south, that's what I think.

But then what happens to all of the kids in South Arlington who want a neighborhood school or don't get into an option school, but there's a massive seat deficit because all of the option programs have been crammed in there? Are you going to make them get on buses north instead of letting them go to school in their own neighborhoods?

Oakridge and Henry are really the only neighborhood schools in SA that are overcrowded. A lot of the boundary process is not just because of fleet being built. It's because UMC families with children have concentrated themselves in just two south Arlington neighborhood elementaries they deem good enough. Moving Campbell from arlingtons poorest part to its richest won't help that reality.

You're right that the boundary process isn't just about Fleet being built, but you're wrong about the motivation being the socioeconomic housing patterns in south Arlington. The real driving force is the budget crisis and the fact that APS doesn't think it's going to get better any time soon. If you're going to have to move some boundaries, better to go all-in and cut a few million dollars in transportation costs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like Nottingham is OK being an option!

Why anyone in north Arlington would care one way or another baffles me, but I live in south Arlington, where the differences between neighboring neighborhood schools and option schools can be very large.

When the dust settles, the elementary schools, including options, will be even more economically segregated than now. It's going to be a really striking chart and I can't wait for arlnow to publish it.

What do you think they should have done?

I think if the 1% wants options they can get their nannies to drive a little farther south, that's what I think.

But then what happens to all of the kids in South Arlington who want a neighborhood school or don't get into an option school, but there's a massive seat deficit because all of the option programs have been crammed in there? Are you going to make them get on buses north instead of letting them go to school in their own neighborhoods?

Oakridge and Henry are really the only neighborhood schools in SA that are overcrowded. A lot of the boundary process is not just because of fleet being built. It's because UMC families with children have concentrated themselves in just two south Arlington neighborhood elementaries they deem good enough. Moving Campbell from arlingtons poorest part to its richest won't help that reality.

If you take away two neighborhood schools to move ATS and Key south, you will have a capacity crisis at more than just two schools.