Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It'd be 30%. That is the free and reduced lunch rate for all of Arlington. But a lot of us (N. and S.) would just like to see it balanced a bit so there is not 70-80% at Carlin Springs/Randolph and 2% at Jamestown/Nottingham. How about 50-60% and 15-20%?

That would definitely be much more banlanced and diverse for these schools. Of course I should have just considered the overall rates. Duh.
30 % is a lot, but that seems like a number we can absorb. I am concerned that the new plan will add to that. When we start to approach 40/50 % as a county- that seems untenable.

But isn't the issue that all the schools are too close to capacity to accept transfers? Or does busing mean also busing NoAr (sorry) kids south as well as Columbia Pike kids to schools north? Does anyone know the history of busing and similar integration attempts in Arlington?

There will not be bussing.
These demographics will not be changed in the immediate future. If you are in these school zones now - you have to hope to choice out or go private.

We are talking future housing policy.
The problem the board is addressing with committed affordable housing on Columbia pike, is that the area was naturally gentrifying- so the schools demographics were getting evened out. Which was great, except that housing wasn't coming back into the county.
So, the board is handing out no interest loans to AH developers to throw a bunch of high density 100% subsidized housing all
Along the same stretch of road.
If that housing had gone away and popped up on Lee Highway- we wouldn't be having these lopsided demographics.
That's what people are fighting for.

I am new to Arlington and have been reading every damn thread on this on DCUM, 22204, and elsewhere, and this is the most succinct explanation I have seen. Thank you. a few questions:

--Why does the board want 100% subsidized housing not to disappear enough to stimulate in that way? are there federal benefits at stake or something? "the goodness of their hearts" does not seem like the right answer, and I say that as a liberal. Campaign donations? kickbacks? The principle is to "follow the money" so where is the money flowing in this set of decisions?

--Is the only reason it's happening on the Pike and not Lee highway that the NIMBYs are more powerful up north? Hence CARD? or are there other factors like zoning? (not that that can't be NIMBY related also)

I know busing is not happening really anywhere in 2015, the political climate is too hostile to it, but it seems a shame. As best as I can tell it is one of the only things that really does improve educational outcomes for poor kids while not damaging those of rich kids. Sounds like a magic bullet to me. Also about as realistic as pods on the Pike.

I second this. I've been here for two years and am still trying to figure it all out.

A counterargument would be that busing, in its early forms, destroyed city school systems such as Boston and Milwaukee. Racists fled and rich white liberals, well, they watched from afar with their snowflakes ensconced in lily white private schools or the like.

Arlington does busing pretty well--it offers many choice programs (Montessori, immersion, IB, and alternative [H-B Woodlawn]), and those schools are often more diverse than the neighborhoods they are in, more representative of the overall Arlington demographic mix than most neighborhood schools, and have good or great test scores. They also all have big waiting lists (except for IB, which they may put limits on at some point). There should probably be more countywide choice schools--except no neighborhood is going to give up its local school to become a choice program, and there aren't a lot of good locations to build on in the center of the county. (One exception -- the bigger, countywide STEM/tech choice school for high schoolers planned at the Career Center, which will be a good thing). The downside is that the neighborhood schools in higher SES neighborhoods are fine when 40 or 50 kids choose to go to ATS or immersion or whatever, but the higher poverty schools are hurt when the more engaged parents choose other schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It'd be 30%. That is the free and reduced lunch rate for all of Arlington. But a lot of us (N. and S.) would just like to see it balanced a bit so there is not 70-80% at Carlin Springs/Randolph and 2% at Jamestown/Nottingham. How about 50-60% and 15-20%?

That would definitely be much more banlanced and diverse for these schools. Of course I should have just considered the overall rates. Duh.
30 % is a lot, but that seems like a number we can absorb. I am concerned that the new plan will add to that. When we start to approach 40/50 % as a county- that seems untenable.

But isn't the issue that all the schools are too close to capacity to accept transfers? Or does busing mean also busing NoAr (sorry) kids south as well as Columbia Pike kids to schools north? Does anyone know the history of busing and similar integration attempts in Arlington?

There will not be bussing.
These demographics will not be changed in the immediate future. If you are in these school zones now - you have to hope to choice out or go private.

We are talking future housing policy.
The problem the board is addressing with committed affordable housing on Columbia pike, is that the area was naturally gentrifying- so the schools demographics were getting evened out. Which was great, except that housing wasn't coming back into the county.
So, the board is handing out no interest loans to AH developers to throw a bunch of high density 100% subsidized housing all
Along the same stretch of road.
If that housing had gone away and popped up on Lee Highway- we wouldn't be having these lopsided demographics.
That's what people are fighting for.

I am new to Arlington and have been reading every damn thread on this on DCUM, 22204, and elsewhere, and this is the most succinct explanation I have seen. Thank you. a few questions:

--Why does the board want 100% subsidized housing not to disappear enough to stimulate in that way? are there federal benefits at stake or something? "the goodness of their hearts" does not seem like the right answer, and I say that as a liberal. Campaign donations? kickbacks? The principle is to "follow the money" so where is the money flowing in this set of decisions?

--Is the only reason it's happening on the Pike and not Lee highway that the NIMBYs are more powerful up north? Hence CARD? or are there other factors like zoning? (not that that can't be NIMBY related also)

I know busing is not happening really anywhere in 2015, the political climate is too hostile to it, but it seems a shame. As best as I can tell it is one of the only things that really does improve educational outcomes for poor kids while not damaging those of rich kids. Sounds like a magic bullet to me. Also about as realistic as pods on the Pike.

I second this. I've been here for two years and am still trying to figure it all out.

A counterargument would be that busing, in its early forms, destroyed city school systems such as Boston and Milwaukee. Racists fled and rich white liberals, well, they watched from afar with their snowflakes ensconced in lily white private schools or the like.

Anonymous wrote:...I really think ATS needs to have more spaces set aside for VPI students so that the population of our only countywide school is reflective of Arlington's population...

from bottom of ATS home page http://www.apsva.us/domain/292:

School Population:
Total Student Enrollment, PreK-5: 502
Students who receive English as a second language support, K-5: 17.5%
Number of Countries Represented: 22
Number of Languages Spoken: 28
Minority Population: 42.6%
Total Teaching Faculty: 43
Total Administrators: 2
Teachers with a Master’s degree or beyond: 79%

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It'd be 30%. That is the free and reduced lunch rate for all of Arlington. But a lot of us (N. and S.) would just like to see it balanced a bit so there is not 70-80% at Carlin Springs/Randolph and 2% at Jamestown/Nottingham. How about 50-60% and 15-20%?

That would definitely be much more banlanced and diverse for these schools. Of course I should have just considered the overall rates. Duh.
30 % is a lot, but that seems like a number we can absorb. I am concerned that the new plan will add to that. When we start to approach 40/50 % as a county- that seems untenable.

But isn't the issue that all the schools are too close to capacity to accept transfers? Or does busing mean also busing NoAr (sorry) kids south as well as Columbia Pike kids to schools north? Does anyone know the history of busing and similar integration attempts in Arlington?

There will not be bussing.
These demographics will not be changed in the immediate future. If you are in these school zones now - you have to hope to choice out or go private.

We are talking future housing policy.
The problem the board is addressing with committed affordable housing on Columbia pike, is that the area was naturally gentrifying- so the schools demographics were getting evened out. Which was great, except that housing wasn't coming back into the county.
So, the board is handing out no interest loans to AH developers to throw a bunch of high density 100% subsidized housing all
Along the same stretch of road.
If that housing had gone away and popped up on Lee Highway- we wouldn't be having these lopsided demographics.
That's what people are fighting for.

I am new to Arlington and have been reading every damn thread on this on DCUM, 22204, and elsewhere, and this is the most succinct explanation I have seen. Thank you. a few questions:

--Why does the board want 100% subsidized housing not to disappear enough to stimulate in that way? are there federal benefits at stake or something? "the goodness of their hearts" does not seem like the right answer, and I say that as a liberal. Campaign donations? kickbacks? The principle is to "follow the money" so where is the money flowing in this set of decisions?

--Is the only reason it's happening on the Pike and not Lee highway that the NIMBYs are more powerful up north? Hence CARD? or are there other factors like zoning? (not that that can't be NIMBY related also)

I know busing is not happening really anywhere in 2015, the political climate is too hostile to it, but it seems a shame. As best as I can tell it is one of the only things that really does improve educational outcomes for poor kids while not damaging those of rich kids. Sounds like a magic bullet to me. Also about as realistic as pods on the Pike.

I second this. I've been here for two years and am still trying to figure it all out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe there is federal money at stake. Block grants- anyone have more info on that? There is also new HUD rules regarding integrated housing.


There are long standing advocate groups ( mainly VOICE) Already mobilized along this part of the county. It makes it easier to grease the wheels and they don't face the opposition that they do on the north side.
I don't think it's as shady as kickbacks and the like. It has more to do with the people helping to set the policy make their living in this arena- consulting or working directly for the big AH developers. It's hard to argue against them, because they will always claim the moral high ground. The same couple of guys on the 22204 listserve will basically call you racist if you raise any questions about these polices.
To be fair- I do believe they believe their own bullshit.

I get why it matters to politicians, but why would it matter to the developers where the buildings are, if their money is free?

A couple of reasons...


When they try to put 100% affordable housing in the most affluent areas there have been multiple expensive lawsuits to try and ( unsuccessfully) stop it.
That's a deterrent from doing it there again.
It's politically expedient for the board to focus south because there is such an organized effort behind placing it there. The board does what it damn well pleases, but they don't really want a fight. That's why the street car got canned.
They were genuienly shocked that CARD was formed and spoke up about some very foreseeable problems with the AH master plan in its first incarnation.
The county sets up hundreds of meetings for this stuff, and no one with a family life has time to attend them all. It's a group of vocal activists, backing up what the board wants to hear.
The land in that part of the county is the least expensive ( this is relative ). Part of how the board is selling this to taxpayers is that we don't actually pay for any of this housing. The developer takes a loan from the county with no or minuscule interest and pays us back. If the board puts this housing elsewhere they not be able to offer the same amount of money for development or get the same amount of high density.
And that's been the goal for the board..,
Density density density!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Here is another real world example:

About 6-7 years ago Patrick Henry was 6/10 on Great Schools with a free lunch rate of about 50%.

Now they are a 9/10 rating at Great schools and have a free lunch rate of 37%!

Also : Patrick Henry Elementary School has been recognized as a 2015 National Blue Ribbon School, the only public elementary school in Northern Virginia to receive the honor this year.

In case this moronic out of touch Board plans to bump up the poverty rate again, because of their idiotic housing plan (while raising my real estate tax assessment 12% again), that would be ... I have no words. Just this message for the Board: You won't get our money, if that'll come to pass.

There is that sweet spot where a great staff and enough involved parents can make it all excellent- but if you overwhelm a school with challenges - not the greatest staff will be able to overcome it - in my personal opinion.

It will be interesting to see what happens at Drew, since it looks like the Montessori people are going to get their wish and the new elementary in south Arlington will allow them to have a separate school. I've heard that 90% of the kids in the non-Montessori/neighborhood program are on free or reduced lunch, so if the School Board goes ahead and separates the programs, they will basically be making Drew the highest poverty (and probably smallest and least diverse) school in Arlington. Sounds like a real set up for failure--they had better have a rock solid plan to prevent that from happening.

Indeed. If this does happen, it will put everything in the daylight pretty quickly.

I really think ATS needs to have more spaces set aside for VPI students so that the population of our only countywide school is reflective of Arlington's population. And perhaps we could expand VPI to more schools, like Nottingham, Jamestown, Discovery, Taylor, and Tuckahoe, and then those children, even if they live out of bounds, could opt to continue in K-5. Sort of works like busing, but is not mandatory/forced. This can only happen if we get the capacity crisis under control and there is space for VPI classrooms and additional K-5 students at those schools.

I have heard from some in the minority community, particularly the immigrant Hispanic community, that they don't want their children to be bused far from home where they would be in the extreme ethnic minority. They feel more comfortable having their children attend schools with high proportions of other similar children, where they feel better able to communicate and feel a sense of community. So this concern could be addressed by making busing purely choice, and also by building SOME affordable housing closer to the schools that have little to none nearby.

Anonymous wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens at Drew, since it looks like the Montessori people are going to get their wish and the new elementary in south Arlington will allow them to have a separate school. I've heard that 90% of the kids in the non-Montessori/neighborhood program are on free or reduced lunch, so if the School Board goes ahead and separates the programs, they will basically be making Drew the highest poverty (and probably smallest and least diverse) school in Arlington. Sounds like a real set up for failure--they had better have a rock solid plan to prevent that from happening.

Drew families can transfer to Hoffman-Boston. That pulls out invested families. I wonder if Montessori moves out if APS will get rid of the transfer option.

Anonymous wrote:I believe there is federal money at stake. Block grants- anyone have more info on that? There is also new HUD rules regarding integrated housing.


There are long standing advocate groups ( mainly VOICE) Already mobilized along this part of the county. It makes it easier to grease the wheels and they don't face the opposition that they do on the north side.
I don't think it's as shady as kickbacks and the like. It has more to do with the people helping to set the policy make their living in this arena- consulting or working directly for the big AH developers. It's hard to argue against them, because they will always claim the moral high ground. The same couple of guys on the 22204 listserve will basically call you racist if you raise any questions about these polices.
To be fair- I do believe they believe their own bullshit.

I get why it matters to politicians, but why would it matter to the developers where the buildings are, if their money is free?

Anonymous wrote:

Here is another real world example:

About 6-7 years ago Patrick Henry was 6/10 on Great Schools with a free lunch rate of about 50%.

Now they are a 9/10 rating at Great schools and have a free lunch rate of 37%!

Also : Patrick Henry Elementary School has been recognized as a 2015 National Blue Ribbon School, the only public elementary school in Northern Virginia to receive the honor this year.

In case this moronic out of touch Board plans to bump up the poverty rate again, because of their idiotic housing plan (while raising my real estate tax assessment 12% again), that would be ... I have no words. Just this message for the Board: You won't get our money, if that'll come to pass.

There is that sweet spot where a great staff and enough involved parents can make it all excellent- but if you overwhelm a school with challenges - not the greatest staff will be able to overcome it - in my personal opinion.

It will be interesting to see what happens at Drew, since it looks like the Montessori people are going to get their wish and the new elementary in south Arlington will allow them to have a separate school. I've heard that 90% of the kids in the non-Montessori/neighborhood program are on free or reduced lunch, so if the School Board goes ahead and separates the programs, they will basically be making Drew the highest poverty (and probably smallest and least diverse) school in Arlington. Sounds like a real set up for failure--they had better have a rock solid plan to prevent that from happening.

It's very telling to me to have first hand knowlegde and experience with a school - and not take away a deeper understanding of the intrinsic challenges it faces. You can still acknowledge that learning is happening, the kids are sweethearts, and the staff is outstanding. But if you want to be the one setting policy, I'm gonna want to hear something deeper and more critical.

So true! And to the other PP who said, she's tired of the ratings and scores used when politically convenient only, either they matter or they don't! -- I agree!
Also, I'll challenge anyone who is on the Board (County and School) who insists all just GREAT in our schools, and ratings don't matter anyways to put their kids into the currently lowest rated county school.

I believe there is federal money at stake. Block grants- anyone have more info on that? There is also new HUD rules regarding integrated housing.


There are long standing advocate groups ( mainly VOICE) Already mobilized along this part of the county. It makes it easier to grease the wheels and they don't face the opposition that they do on the north side.
I don't think it's as shady as kickbacks and the like. It has more to do with the people helping to set the policy make their living in this arena- consulting or working directly for the big AH developers. It's hard to argue against them, because they will always claim the moral high ground. The same couple of guys on the 22204 listserve will basically call you racist if you raise any questions about these polices.
To be fair- I do believe they believe their own bullshit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It'd be 30%. That is the free and reduced lunch rate for all of Arlington. But a lot of us (N. and S.) would just like to see it balanced a bit so there is not 70-80% at Carlin Springs/Randolph and 2% at Jamestown/Nottingham. How about 50-60% and 15-20%?

That would definitely be much more banlanced and diverse for these schools. Of course I should have just considered the overall rates. Duh.
30 % is a lot, but that seems like a number we can absorb. I am concerned that the new plan will add to that. When we start to approach 40/50 % as a county- that seems untenable.

To get an idea of what 30% looks like, look at Long Branch and Oakridge. These two are closest to the county average of 30% FARMS -- 31% at Oakridge, 33% at Long Branch. Both have good test scores overall (both are 8 on Greatschools). My kids are at Long Branch and it's been a great community. I've been very happy with how my kids have been challenged and the various enrichment opportunities they have. It doesn't feel like poverty/ESL related issues are taking too much time. We have friends at Oakridge who are similarly pleased with their experience there.

Thanks for the real world examples. It sucks that many of the s arl elementaries would be lucky to make it down to 50%. I really think anything over 40 is too high. I don't see how that can't have a negative impact.

Here is another real world example:

About 6-7 years ago Patrick Henry was 6/10 on Great Schools with a free lunch rate of about 50%.

Now they are a 9/10 rating at Great schools and have a free lunch rate of 37%!

Also : Patrick Henry Elementary School has been recognized as a 2015 National Blue Ribbon School, the only public elementary school in Northern Virginia to receive the honor this year.

In case this moronic out of touch Board plans to bump up the poverty rate again, because of their idiotic housing plan (while raising my real estate tax assessment 12% again), that would be ... I have no words. Just this message for the Board: You won't get our money, if that'll come to pass.

There is that sweet spot where a great staff and enough involved parents can make it all excellent- but if you overwhelm a school with challenges - not the greatest staff will be able to overcome it - in my personal opinion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It'd be 30%. That is the free and reduced lunch rate for all of Arlington. But a lot of us (N. and S.) would just like to see it balanced a bit so there is not 70-80% at Carlin Springs/Randolph and 2% at Jamestown/Nottingham. How about 50-60% and 15-20%?

That would definitely be much more banlanced and diverse for these schools. Of course I should have just considered the overall rates. Duh.
30 % is a lot, but that seems like a number we can absorb. I am concerned that the new plan will add to that. When we start to approach 40/50 % as a county- that seems untenable.

But isn't the issue that all the schools are too close to capacity to accept transfers? Or does busing mean also busing NoAr (sorry) kids south as well as Columbia Pike kids to schools north? Does anyone know the history of busing and similar integration attempts in Arlington?

There will not be bussing.
These demographics will not be changed in the immediate future. If you are in these school zones now - you have to hope to choice out or go private.

We are talking future housing policy.
The problem the board is addressing with committed affordable housing on Columbia pike, is that the area was naturally gentrifying- so the schools demographics were getting evened out. Which was great, except that housing wasn't coming back into the county.
So, the board is handing out no interest loans to AH developers to throw a bunch of high density 100% subsidized housing all
Along the same stretch of road.
If that housing had gone away and popped up on Lee Highway- we wouldn't be having these lopsided demographics.
That's what people are fighting for.

I am new to Arlington and have been reading every damn thread on this on DCUM, 22204, and elsewhere, and this is the most succinct explanation I have seen. Thank you. a few questions:

--Why does the board want 100% subsidized housing not to disappear enough to stimulate in that way? are there federal benefits at stake or something? "the goodness of their hearts" does not seem like the right answer, and I say that as a liberal. Campaign donations? kickbacks? The principle is to "follow the money" so where is the money flowing in this set of decisions?

--Is the only reason it's happening on the Pike and not Lee highway that the NIMBYs are more powerful up north? Hence CARD? or are there other factors like zoning? (not that that can't be NIMBY related also)

I know busing is not happening really anywhere in 2015, the political climate is too hostile to it, but it seems a shame. As best as I can tell it is one of the only things that really does improve educational outcomes for poor kids while not damaging those of rich kids. Sounds like a magic bullet to me. Also about as realistic as pods on the Pike.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It'd be 30%. That is the free and reduced lunch rate for all of Arlington. But a lot of us (N. and S.) would just like to see it balanced a bit so there is not 70-80% at Carlin Springs/Randolph and 2% at Jamestown/Nottingham. How about 50-60% and 15-20%?

That would definitely be much more banlanced and diverse for these schools. Of course I should have just considered the overall rates. Duh.
30 % is a lot, but that seems like a number we can absorb. I am concerned that the new plan will add to that. When we start to approach 40/50 % as a county- that seems untenable.

But isn't the issue that all the schools are too close to capacity to accept transfers? Or does busing mean also busing NoAr (sorry) kids south as well as Columbia Pike kids to schools north? Does anyone know the history of busing and similar integration attempts in Arlington?

There will not be bussing.
These demographics will not be changed in the immediate future. If you are in these school zones now - you have to hope to choice out or go private.

We are talking future housing policy.
The problem the board is addressing with committed affordable housing on Columbia pike, is that the area was naturally gentrifying- so the schools demographics were getting evened out. Which was great, except that housing wasn't coming back into the county.
So, the board is handing out no interest loans to AH developers to throw a bunch of high density 100% subsidized housing all
Along the same stretch of road.
If that housing had gone away and popped up on Lee Highway- we wouldn't be having these lopsided demographics.
That's what people are fighting for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It'd be 30%. That is the free and reduced lunch rate for all of Arlington. But a lot of us (N. and S.) would just like to see it balanced a bit so there is not 70-80% at Carlin Springs/Randolph and 2% at Jamestown/Nottingham. How about 50-60% and 15-20%?

That would definitely be much more banlanced and diverse for these schools. Of course I should have just considered the overall rates. Duh.
30 % is a lot, but that seems like a number we can absorb. I am concerned that the new plan will add to that. When we start to approach 40/50 % as a county- that seems untenable.

But isn't the issue that all the schools are too close to capacity to accept transfers? Or does busing mean also busing NoAr (sorry) kids south as well as Columbia Pike kids to schools north? Does anyone know the history of busing and similar integration attempts in Arlington?