Anonymous wrote:
Tell me again what the problem is that Common Core solves.

It solves the problem of states having a variety of different standards of varying quality.

Now, is that the biggest problem in education? Far from it. But the US refuses to address the big problems. We don't want to address income inequality, we don't want to address a lack of social supports, we don't want to address immigration, we don't want to address teacher pay and teacher training, we don't want to address disparate local school funding. What does that leave? The Common Core standards -- and apparently even that is too much.

Anonymous wrote:

Then why are states dropping out?

And why aren't teachers protesting to keep them if they love them? Maybe the states figure that the teachers only know what is in front of them? Maybe the teachers just don't matter like they didn't matter in the whole process of coming up with the standards? Now I understand why things are failing in the schools. the process of sausage making DOES matter. If it doesn't matter, we may as well elect Putin next time.

Because it's "Obamacore".

Oh, wow. I knew you were going to say that.

I voted for Obama---twice. Best president ever. But I don't LOOOOOOOOVE NCLB, testing, more testing with a new set of standards instead of fixing the real problem, etc.

The question was, "Why are states dropping out?" The answer is, "Because it's "Obamacore"." That doesn't mean that every opponent of the Common Core standards hates Obama and believes that he's a Communist Muslim born in Kenya. All it means is that the states are dropping out because it's "Obamacore". Your political allies in the fight against the Common Core are the likes of Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz.

This problem predates the Common Core standards, and getting rid of the Common Core standards won't solve it.

Tell me again what the problem is that Common Core solves.

Oh, yeah, it has something to do with other countries and that they are doing better than we are, right?

So why don't we look at those countries and do what they are doing? Which is not testing like this every year and which involves more pathways in schools. And then we can compare ourselves using the same students that they use when they put out their data.

I'm not against national standards, but in the US you've got to give more flexibility and provide paths. We have to stop kicking ourselves down and bring our students up. All the tests are demoralizing to students and communities. They are looking for real solutions. Show how kids can be successful. Don't show them more failure. Also, when teachers have nothing but penalties when they struggle, it's very disheartening. Who wants a job where they are asked to do more than they physically can and then they get beaten down for it.

In the countries that are doing well, the teachers spend 60% of their time in front of students. In the US, it is 80%. Start there. The teachers in the other countries have time to spend generating the curriculum for their standards and discussing their plans with other teachers. Here the teachers are running like crazy chickens. If you don't solve this, you are not going to get far with the implementation of the standards.

Then why are states dropping out?

And why aren't teachers protesting to keep them if they love them? Maybe the states figure that the teachers only know what is in front of them? Maybe the teachers just don't matter like they didn't matter in the whole process of coming up with the standards? Now I understand why things are failing in the schools. the process of sausage making DOES matter. If it doesn't matter, we may as well elect Putin next time.



Because it's "Obamacore".

Oh, wow. I knew you were going to say that.

I voted for Obama---twice. Best president ever. But I don't LOOOOOOOOVE NCLB, testing, more testing with a new set of standards instead of fixing the real problem, etc.

Anonymous wrote:
More than two on the list you are working off of do have teaching experience, and in fact, several of them taught K-12 teachers how to teach, and several of them know more about childhood development and pedagogy than any classroom teacher does.


And, you know this, how?


Because some of the folks who were involved have PhDs and teach in those fields, and have published numerous articles in those subject areas in peer reviewed journals, whereas the typical classroom teacher does not have anywhere near as much depth in the field.

There's this tricky huge elephant in the classroom and it has to be dealt with using care and compassion and an incredible knowledge of human development and behavior (not book learned, but learned through real life). Teachers are masters of this. Don't dismiss what they are seeing in front of them. People with PhDs do not often deal with this since they are busy with the research and data crunching. They often underrate this part of teaching because, frankly, they don't understand it. As a teacher, I can tell you that I learned pretty much nothing about dealing with these kinds of issues in my courses (from PhDs). I was in the "sink or swim" mode when I started teaching. I made it by sheer determination to learn (and through plenty of tears). Many teachers don't make it. When you go through something like this, you bond with your soul mates in teaching. NCLB has been a divisive force among teachers. I am saddened that we are not the compatriots that we used to be, giving each other mutual support through trying times (and teaching young children is often trying). I started in this business 27 years ago (still in it) and I am terribly saddened to see where it is going. I am lucky to have recently found a landing spot (yes, I have had to get out of places when the hatchet wielders were put in) with a great leader for me, but she is rare in the business. She has many years of experience and does her best to shield us from the BS that comes down. And. there. is. lots. of. it. I am lucky because I have always had people ask me to join them (at the right times!). I am certified in four areas (two of them are in very high demand). Double majored at a big ten school and have a Master's degree. No PhD, but could probably do that if I really wanted to crunch numbers and do research. I know I am not "typical", but there are plenty like me. BTW, my husband has a PhD. People get too impressed by credentials. IMHO.

Anonymous wrote:

It's a mistake to have only one path for students. Not everyone is or even should go to four year college. Talk about narrowing the curriculum. This is very detrimental to many students. Scores go down when the students are not in the programs appropriate for them.

This problem predates the Common Core standards, and getting rid of the Common Core standards won't solve it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I took a sample PARCC test online for 4th grade math to see what all of the discussion was about.

I was surprised at the number of steps involved to get to the right answer for some of the questions.

An example is:
you have 4 teachers teaching a chess class. There are 18 chess boards. They order 3 more cases of 15. If each teacher has the same number of chess boards and the remainder are donated to the library, how many chess boards does each teacher get?

As adults, we can quickly see the answer is 15 but it will take a 4th grader a long time to get there.

My second grader and 3d grader each did it in about 10 seconds. Not sure what the problem is. This is actually a good question I think.

But I don't see the connection to common core

This is the other problem with Common Core math. Most teachers (and parents) don't know math well enough themselves, so they can't see that the word problem is ambiguous.

PP's silly second-grader and third-grader evidently don't know enough about math to realize that the problem they easily solved in 10 seconds is actually ambiguous -- I guess?

Also, what is the connection between this math problem and the Common Core standards?

Anonymous wrote:

But there are plenty of teachers who support the Common Core standards.

Then why are states dropping out?

And why aren't teachers protesting to keep them if they love them? Maybe the states figure that the teachers only know what is in front of them? Maybe the teachers just don't matter like they didn't matter in the whole process of coming up with the standards? Now I understand why things are failing in the schools. the process of sausage making DOES matter. If it doesn't matter, we may as well elect Putin next time.

Because it's "Obamacore".

Also, people opposing things gets a lot more media attention (especially from the media outlets that consider it "Obamacore") than people supporting things. Do you expect teachers to march in front of the state house with signs saying, "Our state adopted the Common Core standards, and I support that decision!"?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I took a sample PARCC test online for 4th grade math to see what all of the discussion was about.

I was surprised at the number of steps involved to get to the right answer for some of the questions.

An example is:
you have 4 teachers teaching a chess class. There are 18 chess boards. They order 3 more cases of 15. If each teacher has the same number of chess boards and the remainder are donated to the library, how many chess boards does each teacher get?

As adults, we can quickly see the answer is 15 but it will take a 4th grader a long time to get there.

My second grader and 3d grader each did it in about 10 seconds. Not sure what the problem is. This is actually a good question I think.

But I don't see the connection to common core

This is the other problem with Common Core math. Most teachers (and parents) don't know math well enough themselves, so they can't see that the word problem is ambiguous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I took a sample PARCC test online for 4th grade math to see what all of the discussion was about.

I was surprised at the number of steps involved to get to the right answer for some of the questions.

An example is:
you have 4 teachers teaching a chess class. There are 18 chess boards. They order 3 more cases of 15. If each teacher has the same number of chess boards and the remainder are donated to the library, how many chess boards does each teacher get?

As adults, we can quickly see the answer is 15 but it will take a 4th grader a long time to get there.I

No, why?

18 + 3*15 = 63

63/4 = 15 R 3

The computation isn't complicated, and if the math curriculum is good, then the fourth-graders will have plenty of experience solving word problems like this.

It's even simpler than that.

4 teachers. 3 new sets of 15 chess boards. To give the same number to the 4th teacher, take 15 from the 18 you already have. There's only 3 left, not enough for each of the 4 teachers to have 1 more. You're done. No multiplication and no division, just 18-15 and 3<4.

If you start by computing, it takes a long time and is fairly complicated. If you start by thinking, it's trivial.

(Hat tip to DC's 1st grade teacher, who has been teaching DC, and thus me indirectly, how to start by thinking.)

I like both approaches, PPs. I dislike the question, though, because it has multiple solutions. The teachers could each get from one to 15 chess boards (or even zero), with the remainder going to the library.

I hope it's a multiple choice question and that the incorrect answers are all greater than 15.

This is the real problem with Common Core, as I understand from reading this boards (as I don't yet have a kid old enough to get these word problems). I have seen many problems where there are multiple answers, but the assumption is that there is only one answer.

But there are plenty of teachers who support the Common Core standards.

Then why are states dropping out?

And why aren't teachers protesting to keep them if they love them? Maybe the states figure that the teachers only know what is in front of them? Maybe the teachers just don't matter like they didn't matter in the whole process of coming up with the standards? Now I understand why things are failing in the schools. the process of sausage making DOES matter. If it doesn't matter, we may as well elect Putin next time.

The problem is that by waiting until college to begin tracking students according to their career interests, the American education system may be consigning more and more young people to poverty. Youth unemployment is at a staggering 17.1 percent in the U.S., compared with less than 8 percent in Germany and Switzerland. These nations link high-school curriculum directly to the world of work, placing students in private-sector internships that typically lead to full-time, paying jobs. The Common Core, on the other hand, has a blanket definition of “college and career ready,” which, according to Carnevale, ignores the reality that each student has different strengths and weaknesses, and that every job requires a specific set of skills—some of which are best taught in the workplace, not in the classroom. Not to mention that with almost 54 percent of recent college graduates jobless or underemployed, and with total student debt surpassing $1 trillion, college has become a much riskier investment than it once was.

It's a mistake to have only one path for students. Not everyone is or even should go to four year college. Talk about narrowing the curriculum. This is very detrimental to many students. Scores go down when the students are not in the programs appropriate for them.

^^^or at the very least don't oppose them.

But there are plenty of teachers who support the Common Core standards.

Go read the other threads. There are plenty--starting in K. You just think that you know more than teachers. You don't.

+ everything

This is why these standards are going to fail. People are tired of these kinds of people in Washington who just don't get it. Get off your high horse and go work with the standards in a classroom for three years or so. I do worry that you wouldn't see what is in front of you though. The data and research are much easier to work with.