Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 12:12     Subject: Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
I think the bridezilla comments are very mean. Are we really saying sports tournaments are more important and that no one cares about weddings anymore?
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 12:09     Subject: Re:Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't think most posters here have DCs in HS. There is a pervasive sense that all HS kids have to "play a sport" to get into college. Not true, but whatever. So this gives the coaches much too much power and they abuse it. So here is OPs DD a freshman on a competitive team. If she misses it, she will sit on the bench until she learns her "lesson" This comes from the baby boomers kids bulge. Hopefully, as time goes on this trend will end. But for right now, OP is stuck. Also it is freshman year for OPs DD. After sophomore or junior year, DCs have gotten their letters and they can drop the sport, having filled their resumes for college. Creepy and unfair, but there it is.


Not true. My daughter missed a tournament for her uncle's wedding and was never on the bench. We knew about the wedding a year in advance. When the schedule came out she told her coach her whole family would be out of town for her uncles wedding. Would this be a problem? Is there anything extra she can do to help? I also sent an email to the coach and cc'd the director of athletics and the principal of the school. All we got back is no problem, thanks for letting us know in advance. She was never on the bench when she came back. She stayed late 2x the following week to practice extra. Her own doing. Kids that are talented and have poise and confidence will be just fine. If you think your coach is god, can't speak up, always have your tail between your legs or lie to avoid confrontation/getting benched - your coach will bench you more for that then anything else.


I agree. I think this is more the parents don't want their child to miss it and the "opportunity' more than the fear of the coach. I have 3 kids all in plenty of rec, club JV and varsity sports (private and public) and never found one coach so crazy to bench a child for missing a family event like a wedding.

Have the kid talk to the coach in advance, the parent send an email to everyone that would play a part in a possible scenario of the coach "threatening" no playtime and go to your family event. I mean if you really have a child that fearful of a coach, why is he even playing? Doesn't sound enjoyable to me.

Plus, couldn't the sister have told the coach, the nephew is IN the wedding party? "We really hate to miss XX tournament but Johnny has an obligation as a groomsmen in his Aunt's wedding"

Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 12:07     Subject: Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
Anonymous wrote:Can't the sister ask the coach what the ramifications would be for missing the game up front/essentially ask for son to be excused? I think the son can deal with the fallout. Challenges and frustrating situations are part of life. So are family and celebrations!


HS coaches don't talk to parents in general. The kids are suppose to do all the negotiating for themselves. They are in HS not Kindergarten.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 12:05     Subject: Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I agree it obscures things a bit. But if it was dance or cheerleading or something else, I'm sure it'd be the same, just with less people chiming in because they are less participated in activities. But I have to believe they have lots of the same pressure and costs and issues that are being raised here.

Hey it could be the Dungeons and Dragons team for all I care. Same stuff. Same opinion. Go to the family event.


Different PP. I don't think so. I think the anti-sport people have really twisted this here. I would have the child miss the tournament, but what I find eye-opening on this thread is this viciousness people apparently harbor towards children (children!) who like sports. Have you read some of what people have wrote here? Apparently playing a team sport means you're setting yourself for a life in a cubicle, never participate in civic life, don't think of anybody other than yourselves, are all deluded into a blind belief you (or your child) will get a scholarship, and don't love family. It's unbelievable.

I'm no team sports fanatic either. I didn't play sports in school. But I find the vitriol here really awful and I think the anti-sports people are probably teaching their own kids some lessons that are a lot worse than what OP's sister is teaching her child.


I agree with you that those comments are unfair, but there was also an unfair poster or two prior to the anti-sports comments who said something to the effect of if you didn't have kids in competitive sports, your child would sit around and watch video games all day and maybe get into trouble and the only people who really work hard are the ones playing sports and the others just phone in. Would you agree that an orchestra conductor should keep a child out of orchestra for missing a concert? How about a boss that would fire an employee for missing a meeting over a family wedding? I don't agree with these either in most cases. So why does the coach get a pass on being a jerk just because it's a high school sports team?
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 11:57     Subject: Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
[quote=Anonymous]Can't the sister ask the coach what the ramifications would be for missing the game up front/essentially ask for son to be excused? I think the son can deal with the fallout. Challenges and frustrating situations are part of life. So are family and celebrations![/quote]

This is what I thought too. Maybe part of OP's issue is if the sister did not even "pursue all options" to see if it could work. The sister saying "he has a tournament and can't miss it unfortunately" is different than saying "okay this got screwed this up and we are going to talk to the coach today and see if there is any way he can miss the tourney or better understand the implications and unless it's a catastrophic impact he will be there for your wedding".

Based on the comments on this thread, I wonder if parents are coming from a place of fear and presumption and not wanting to even check with the coach. Fear that it is somehow disrespectful or shows the lack of commitment to the team just by asking the question.

I'm the PP who thinks this all applies to many activities. I don't see sports as that unique. I imagine some of the same stuff for musical instruments and theater and the like. Sports is different in that it's so much more widespread and the societal messages (pedestal) about it and then also parents may get crazier about it because of this.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 11:56     Subject: Re:Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
Maybe in OP's case, the sister will do nothing and OP will get over it, but I hope this thread gives parents the confidence to at least talk to the coaches about important family events and the possibility of making it up somehow to the team if they miss an event once over the course of 2-3 years. I get that people have commitments whether it be work, orchestra, gymnastics competition, soccer match, etc, but typically there's always an alternative solution. You go to an extra soccer camp over the summer to make up for the beginning season tournament and stay late to practice with a friend, you work late for 2 weeks and fully inform your coworker on the project before missing a meeting. Most of these high school athletes also participate in a sports club of some sort in addition to their high school team, so there are commitments and games all year long for these children to work on and demonstrate improvement. Even at the elementary school level, there seem to be fewer than 6 weekends across an entire year where there isn't a sporting event.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 11:30     Subject: Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
Anonymous wrote:Can't the sister ask the coach what the ramifications would be for missing the game up front/essentially ask for son to be excused? I think the son can deal with the fallout. Challenges and frustrating situations are part of life. So are family and celebrations!


And how exactly is OP supposed to float that idea to her sister without sounding like the bridezilla you all think she is? From my readings of OP's posts, that is exactly what she's angsting over--that she wants to push back, but knows she really has no place to ask this of her sister (who already feels bad).
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 11:23     Subject: Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
Can't the sister ask the coach what the ramifications would be for missing the game up front/essentially ask for son to be excused? I think the son can deal with the fallout. Challenges and frustrating situations are part of life. So are family and celebrations!
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 11:03     Subject: Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
Anonymous wrote:I agree it obscures things a bit. But if it was dance or cheerleading or something else, I'm sure it'd be the same, just with less people chiming in because they are less participated in activities. But I have to believe they have lots of the same pressure and costs and issues that are being raised here.

Hey it could be the Dungeons and Dragons team for all I care. Same stuff. Same opinion. Go to the family event.


Different PP. I don't think so. I think the anti-sport people have really twisted this here. I would have the child miss the tournament, but what I find eye-opening on this thread is this viciousness people apparently harbor towards children (children!) who like sports. Have you read some of what people have wrote here? Apparently playing a team sport means you're setting yourself for a life in a cubicle, never participate in civic life, don't think of anybody other than yourselves, are all deluded into a blind belief you (or your child) will get a scholarship, and don't love family. It's unbelievable.

I'm no team sports fanatic either. I didn't play sports in school. But I find the vitriol here really awful and I think the anti-sports people are probably teaching their own kids some lessons that are a lot worse than what OP's sister is teaching her child.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 11:03     Subject: Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
Anonymous wrote:I am family first and lean towoards OP, but the anti-sports rhetoric here has tainted the credibility of this thread.

Sports is a lightning rod and I get that, but this thread, IMO, could be about ANY extracurricular activity. There are parents and kids who become obsessed in whatever activity. It could be sports, debate, orchestra, paegants, drama, science clubs, etc.

Many of you are expressing a disdain for sports generally (because that is how the OP framed it). Fine, but would your thoughts be different if the activity was something you approved of? I guess my point is that by making this about sports specifically and not about extracurriculars generally, your answers will be more extreme and knee jerk.


Would it be? Suppose my child had a violin concert. Would that be ok?

What if I had an important conference call at work? Would that justify missing my aunt's wedding?

I don't have teenage kids but I was a teenage athlete once myself and also a professor who teaches varsity athletes, and this thread is a crazy reality check for me. BTW, the varsity athletes miss an occasional class but are super polite about asking for workarounds. And they would never miss an exam. I don't think they miss family occasions either. So I am rather surprised that a 14 year old boy needs to miss a wedding, even if technically a wedding is "boring" (which is not the point, weddings can be boring for me as an adult, too, but I go when it's an important friend or family member).

Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 11:01     Subject: Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I agree. And by "career" you mean high school and a small percent chance of college and the tiniest fraction of a percent beyond that. I think that is where the problem is. Parents push these kids into this competitive dilusion of stardom. Thousands of dollars, picking the right coach, one on one lessons, getting on the elite team, making varsity at freshman. Shipping off to camps and showcases. Most kids are a dime a dozen and no amount of fine tuning will ever get you the stardom. You either have it or you don't. But parents truly feel this tension of "what if I didn't do enough?" And I bet her sister projects this anxiety back onto her son too. Those both feel it is a make/break moment in his "career" and that is the truly sad part. Kids these days no longer have fun. They are prepped from the age of 2. Lives scheduled meticulously and this false hope of stardom. Coaches are high stress because the parents want the best and in their eyes the more the better. Push, push, push.


I've seen a lot of comments like this, claiming that there are a significant number of sports parents who are delusional idiots who think their kids are stars and will get D1 scholarships. I think this is a myth. I have a lot of experience with travel soccer, and don't think I've met more than one or two parents who are confused about their kids' abilities by the time the kid hits high school. You may disagree with the amount of playing time your kid gets vis a vis other kids at the margin, but it becomes obvious through the years which kids are elite at their sport and which ones are not.

And here's the thing that posters like you seem to completely miss: a kid can feel incredibly passionate about a sport even if there is no chance she will play it in college. For many of them, there continues to be joy in playing and improving even if they are on a second or third tier club team. Lots of kids like this have playing in high school as their ultimate sports ambition. This is the case for one of my kids, who loves playing just as much as my more gifted son, and has devoted nearly as much time to it as his brother. We have supported them equally, because we love how much pleasure and learning they've gotten from their soccer experience, not to mention the great friends they and we have made along the way. There is no doubt in my mind that both of them will be playing soccer at one level or another for the rest of their lives. So it's all good, and it's all done for good motives. Just a sad reality that the less gifted kid is subject to the whims of a not very good high school coach in a way that his brother will never be.



Um, wow. So they spend all their time playing soccer. One because he is good. Another because he wants to catch up to good brother. The reason you all have "such great" friends from the sport is because that is all you and your kids see. And you are already pitying the not so good one and his possible sub par performance and coach? Sheesh.


Um, what? They don't spend all their time playing soccer, though they do it every chance they get--they play in the park with their friends or do individual skills work each week in addition to their practices and games. There is plenty of school/homework, music, other extracurriculars, and hanging out with friends and family mixed in. Plus TV, video games, and texting. And loads of eating.

They both do it because they love it. No one pities the less good one (the elder), who is both very good at soccer and gifted in other areas, as well as a generally outstanding human being. It's just a reality that stars don't have to worry about sub-par coaches the way others do. We have never had to miss an important family event because of their soccer, and as I've stated before, both their (most excellent) club coaches would have no problem with them skipping a game or tournament if there was a conflict. But the high school coach is not nearly so reasonable nor particularly soccer savvy.

And your assumptions about our friends are absurd as well.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 10:48     Subject: Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
We can't really judge op's specific situation. It's too hard to know all of the dynamics and circumstances of a family. We can just generally say here is what we think if we presume some simple basics that make sense.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 10:29     Subject: Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
Based on OP's comments and some of the other posts made by others, I'm going to guess that OP is the cool aunt who is around a lot for living in another state. In this case no mention of any other siblings or nieces or nephews, so probably the only aunt/uncle on that side. Who knows their family dynamic and everyone has a different definition as to what is close and what is a good aunt or good mom. Driving down for Xmas, spending annual weekly vacations together and going to different places for their sports events all sounds like good aunt material to me. Objectively speaking. But what I like is an aunt actually thinking a nephew is an important person at a wedding. Some jerky self-centered relatives would care less.

I'm also guessing (can we guess!) that this is the aunt's first family event, whereas the sister probably had wedding shower and ceremony and baby shower and births and then kid birthdays and Xmas for kids are a big family deal and then all the kids activities events.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 10:25     Subject: Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
Anonymous wrote:OP here again. I think the lesson here for me is for when I have kids and how to navigate this sports (or other activity) world and keep true to my value or priority of family first. How that works within the lives of kids/teens. How to place the context for the family, despite possibly restrictive circumstances and clear benefits of the activities and the commitment to those. Definitely hard. But I keep coming back to - for me - a tournament or sporting event is not more important than a big family event like this (my wedding or if my mom got remarried or if my dad won the nobel prize). I do recognize that as my personal value. Not to be required of others. I think I'm just really still surprised. Maybe that's naive as hell.


OP I am sorry! before I had kids I would never have thought this would be the case. I have been shocked at HS sports and how they treat the student athletes. made all the worse that it is a KID they are doing this to. My DS made Varsity as a freshman and I had no idea what a mess it all was. But they back you into a corner. Enjoy your wedding and meet up with the niece later -- its all you can do. Sorry again.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2015 10:19     Subject: Re:Sister says 14yo nephew not coming to my wedding because of his sports tournament. Thoughts?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
so the issues are:
--preexisting commitments and when to break them
--how important are extracurriculars to a teenager's life, vs importance of family connections
--importance of unique events to a family's connections


PP here. I think this is a good synopsis.

You will have to add in how involved the OP is in the kids life. Does her make every birthday? Are they close? Or is this just an "important family event" because it's about her?


orig pp here. that's under 3 in my mind. If OP sees the kid every month, missing even a unique event like a wedding is nbd since they have a relationship. If they were more far-flung and saw each other less, it might be more important.