Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Are you saying someone else is appearing as you on this thread? It's pretty clear that the quote was meaning to be you. My main question is whether jewish people can still consider themselves chosen and not believe in god. Many come across to me as if they do believe their chosen even when they don't believe in god, but it's helpful to know a jew like yourself does not believe this.

I am not the OP. I felt there were things here that called for a response even if OP was not around or did not know the answer. I also do not accept that any one Jew will speak for all the Jews.

I believe that there is a contradiction in saying Jews are "chosen" if there is no G-d. What does that mean? Who can do the choosing? OTOH I cannot control the logic other people use.

There are certainly secular Jews who are proud of their heritage. But that is not chosenness.

You also should note that a few Jews observe Jewish traditions, even though they do not believe in G-d. That may also be confusing you.

If you are really interested (and not just trolling) you should read a book on the subject (( am sure we can all suggest a few) rather than try to get all your info from a message board.

Between 50-60% of jews in the world do not believe in god, and I'm guessing the percentage is actually much higher. I think jews should have the same rights as any other citizen in the US, but I don't believe I have to approve of their exclusive behavior just because they make similar meals every once in awhile and have similar wedding celebrations. These do not seem like important enough activities to support entire countries being exclusive or even certain neighborhood community groups. I don't understand why we should have school days off for their religious holidays if they don't believe in god. I also think it is right to be offended when for example jewish children and their parents only invite jews to parties year after year using the excuse that the parents got to know their best friends at jewish preschool first and therefore have no room for anyone else. The OP said that jews aren't exclusive and are very integrated in society, but there are several posts that point out how jewish families work hard to segregate themselves from non-jews.

I'm not sure where you got the 50-660% number. I would like to point out that Christians are very exclusionary of Jews. It's happened to me my entire life. I was excluded by Christians and, especially, Catholics from many, many things growing up and even now. So... it seems that other religions are also into exclusivity. Sorry but you can't pin this only on Jews. From the tone of your post, it sounds like you don't like Jews and are jealous of them. Jews are very integrated into society. There are some very observant Jews who choose to live in their own communities and exclude less observant Jews as well as non-Jews. I would call these Jews equal opportunity exclusionists!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Are you saying someone else is appearing as you on this thread? It's pretty clear that the quote was meaning to be you. My main question is whether jewish people can still consider themselves chosen and not believe in god. Many come across to me as if they do believe their chosen even when they don't believe in god, but it's helpful to know a jew like yourself does not believe this.

I am not the OP. I felt there were things here that called for a response even if OP was not around or did not know the answer. I also do not accept that any one Jew will speak for all the Jews.

I believe that there is a contradiction in saying Jews are "chosen" if there is no G-d. What does that mean? Who can do the choosing? OTOH I cannot control the logic other people use.

There are certainly secular Jews who are proud of their heritage. But that is not chosenness.

You also should note that a few Jews observe Jewish traditions, even though they do not believe in G-d. That may also be confusing you.

If you are really interested (and not just trolling) you should read a book on the subject (( am sure we can all suggest a few) rather than try to get all your info from a message board.

Between 50-60% of jews in the world do not believe in god, and I'm guessing the percentage is actually much higher. I think jews should have the same rights as any other citizen in the US, but I don't believe I have to approve of their exclusive behavior just because they make similar meals every once in awhile and have similar wedding celebrations. These do not seem like important enough activities to support entire countries being exclusive or even certain neighborhood community groups. I don't understand why we should have school days off for their religious holidays if they don't believe in god. I also think it is right to be offended when for example jewish children and their parents only invite jews to parties year after year using the excuse that the parents got to know their best friends at jewish preschool first and therefore have no room for anyone else. The OP said that jews aren't exclusive and are very integrated in society, but there are several posts that point out how jewish families work hard to segregate themselves from non-jews.

Anonymous wrote:You clearly have problems with jewish people. You call us insular, but when my family arrived here, we were only allowed to live is specific neighborhoods -- jews were not allowed in many places in the 50's and 60's....and there are still exclusive clubs that do not allow jews. The communities that allowed jews became predominately jewish (if there was a significant jewish population in the region).

I have lived in places that were majority jewish; and I have lived in towns where I was the only jewish person. Hell, in 1975, at the age of 11, we had a cross burnt in our yard. I was not invited to anything there.

There are predominantly jewish clubs: Woodmont Country Club is an example. But, it was founded because non of the other clubs around would allow jews. Get you facts straight!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Are you saying someone else is appearing as you on this thread? It's pretty clear that the quote was meaning to be you. My main question is whether jewish people can still consider themselves chosen and not believe in god. Many come across to me as if they do believe their chosen even when they don't believe in god, but it's helpful to know a jew like yourself does not believe this.

I am not the OP. I felt there were things here that called for a response even if OP was not around or did not know the answer. I also do not accept that any one Jew will speak for all the Jews.

I believe that there is a contradiction in saying Jews are "chosen" if there is no G-d. What does that mean? Who can do the choosing? OTOH I cannot control the logic other people use.

There are certainly secular Jews who are proud of their heritage. But that is not chosenness.

You also should note that a few Jews observe Jewish traditions, even though they do not believe in G-d. That may also be confusing you.

If you are really interested (and not just trolling) you should read a book on the subject (( am sure we can all suggest a few) rather than try to get all your info from a message board.

Between 50-60% of jews in the world do not believe in god, and I'm guessing the percentage is actually much higher. I think jews should have the same rights as any other citizen in the US, but I don't believe I have to approve of their exclusive behavior just because they make similar meals every once in awhile and have similar wedding celebrations. These do not seem like important enough activities to support entire countries being exclusive or even certain neighborhood community groups. I don't understand why we should have school days off for their religious holidays if they don't believe in god. I also think it is right to be offended when for example jewish children and their parents only invite jews to parties year after year using the excuse that the parents got to know their best friends at jewish preschool first and therefore have no room for anyone else. The OP said that jews aren't exclusive and are very integrated in society, but there are several posts that point out how jewish families work hard to segregate themselves from non-jews.

I should not respond, because I have already reported this post as offensive (I believe it is anti-Semitic)....but I will.

First of all, I am allowed to have exclusive behavior in my personal life. I can decide who my friends are and are not. Just like my Morman neighbors, I pray with like minded people. It is not a secret society: Shul is open to all. The JCC has jewish and non jewish members, just like the YMCA.

As for school days off, it largely depends on where you live. In Fairfax, my kids miss school....in Montgomery County, where about 15 % of the teachers are jewish, it would be a logistical problem to get that many subs, so they close schools. Why not have school on Christmas then? It is similar.

My family -- immediate and extended -- are part of the greater society. My sister won the democratic party nomination for Congress in her state a few years ago.

Half of the people invited to my DD's Bat Mitzvah are not jewish....excluding family, only about 25% invited are jewish. I think you will find, if you take off your anti-Semitic glasses, that most people that are jewish mostly socialize with non-jews.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Are you saying someone else is appearing as you on this thread? It's pretty clear that the quote was meaning to be you. My main question is whether jewish people can still consider themselves chosen and not believe in god. Many come across to me as if they do believe their chosen even when they don't believe in god, but it's helpful to know a jew like yourself does not believe this.

I am not the OP. I felt there were things here that called for a response even if OP was not around or did not know the answer. I also do not accept that any one Jew will speak for all the Jews.

I believe that there is a contradiction in saying Jews are "chosen" if there is no G-d. What does that mean? Who can do the choosing? OTOH I cannot control the logic other people use.

There are certainly secular Jews who are proud of their heritage. But that is not chosenness.

You also should note that a few Jews observe Jewish traditions, even though they do not believe in G-d. That may also be confusing you.

If you are really interested (and not just trolling) you should read a book on the subject (( am sure we can all suggest a few) rather than try to get all your info from a message board.

Between 50-60% of jews in the world do not believe in god, and I'm guessing the percentage is actually much higher. I think jews should have the same rights as any other citizen in the US, but I don't believe I have to approve of their exclusive behavior just because they make similar meals every once in awhile and have similar wedding celebrations. These do not seem like important enough activities to support entire countries being exclusive or even certain neighborhood community groups. I don't understand why we should have school days off for their religious holidays if they don't believe in god. I also think it is right to be offended when for example jewish children and their parents only invite jews to parties year after year using the excuse that the parents got to know their best friends at jewish preschool first and therefore have no room for anyone else. The OP said that jews aren't exclusive and are very integrated in society, but there are several posts that point out how jewish families work hard to segregate themselves from non-jews.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Are you saying someone else is appearing as you on this thread? It's pretty clear that the quote was meaning to be you. My main question is whether jewish people can still consider themselves chosen and not believe in god. Many come across to me as if they do believe their chosen even when they don't believe in god, but it's helpful to know a jew like yourself does not believe this.

I am not the OP. I felt there were things here that called for a response even if OP was not around or did not know the answer. I also do not accept that any one Jew will speak for all the Jews.

I believe that there is a contradiction in saying Jews are "chosen" if there is no G-d. What does that mean? Who can do the choosing? OTOH I cannot control the logic other people use.

There are certainly secular Jews who are proud of their heritage. But that is not chosenness.

You also should note that a few Jews observe Jewish traditions, even though they do not believe in G-d. That may also be confusing you.

If you are really interested (and not just trolling) you should read a book on the subject (( am sure we can all suggest a few) rather than try to get all your info from a message board.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you say "Jewish" instead of "Jews"?

I feel that calling oneself "Jewish" does not show full commitment to that identity. It's like you are on the fence.

what quote are you referring to? Jewish is an adjective. English grammar has different words for adjectives and nouns.

For example people say - "I am Christian." or "I am Muslim." They do not say I am "Muslimish" or I am "Christianish". So why say I am "Jewish"? Why not just say "I am a Jew" ?

Christian is an adjective. Jew is not. That is simply English grammar. "I am a Jew just sounds a bit different, more formal than saying "I am Jewish". Both are correct usages however, and both are said.

Anonymous wrote:
Are you saying someone else is appearing as you on this thread? It's pretty clear that the quote was meaning to be you. My main question is whether jewish people can still consider themselves chosen and not believe in god. Many come across to me as if they do believe their chosen even when they don't believe in god, but it's helpful to know a jew like yourself does not believe this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I will try to address some of your other questions, but this was your response to whether you felt being chosen. Why do you feel chosen if you don't believe in G_d? "To be honest, I do. I didn't have that clarity growing up when I was in Saturday or Sunday school and in Hebrew school. As I've matured, I view religion a bit differently. I don't walk around entitled."

That quote was not me.

However like many people of all faith traditions, I do sometimes doubt. When I doubt the existence of G-d, I ALSO doubt the chosenness of the Jewish people. I am not sure the PP meant to say he was atheist (quite different from saying one views G-d differently or less clearly than as a child) or that he did not believe in G-d, but absolutely believed in Jewish chosenness. You are conflating people not believing in G-d but still considering themselves Jewish, with people not believing in G-d but still believing in Jewish chosenness.

Are you saying someone else is appearing as you on this thread? It's pretty clear that the quote was meaning to be you. My main question is whether jewish people can still consider themselves chosen and not believe in god. Many come across to me as if they do believe their chosen even when they don't believe in god, but it's helpful to know a jew like yourself does not believe this.