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Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why all of you are getting worked up over this. You’re free to ingest as much Tylenol as you wish while pregnant.
It’s still legal.

At what point do these recommendations affect what insurance companies will cover or doctors' liability for compliant or non-compliant advice?

lol DCUM freaking out that Tylenol won’t be covered by insurance. Chefs kiss.

It's not about insurance coverage. It's about misleading information -- deliberately wrong information.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy. The other options OTC are not, especially past the 30 week time. And untreated fever in pregnancy really IS connected to autism.

And what will end up happening after this is women leaving fever untreated or thinking "I heard Tylenol is bad, I will take Ibuprofen instead."

The risk is premature closure of the PDA in utero, leading to fetal death.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy.

How do you know?

Because a giant study of 2.5 million children which controlled for genetic and familial factors found that any correlation with autism disappeared once those confounding factors were controlled for. In other words, the correlation found in some studies is related to confounds - genetics of who is more likely to take tylenol due to other predisposing factors.

That’d be a totally satisfactory response if there weren’t studies pointing in the other direction, but there are. Why don’t you credit those?

Because those studies do not control for confounding factors. They are lower quality studies.

They claim they do. One is literally called “Use of Negative Control Exposure Analysis to Evaluate Confounding: An Example of Acetaminophen Exposure and Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder in Nurses' Health Study II.”

Can you explain what how they are of lower quality? Or is it just that you’re heard smart people you trust say they’re of lower quality?

Okay, let's take a look at this one. What is its GRADE scoring ?

I’m not sure. Do you know that it has one? I wouldn’t assume that you can just pop a study in a database and get its GRADE score; I’m pretty sure that kind of assessment is almost like a study unto itself (i.e., a person who is knowledgeable in the field looks at the study and its supporting materials and analyses design). If you’ve got that, I’m interested to see

I just want to be clear, no shame here -- you were unaware of the standardized GRADE scoring to compare the quality of evidence from studies, but were criticizing people for doing exactly that? Or was that someone else?

I can talk someone through how to do this, but I would like to know to whom I am talking. It does seem there's been a lot of people throwing around critiques that are not justified, and I think lack of understanding of how research works may well explain it.

This is exactly why claiming you have been "doing your own research" isn't necessarily a meaningful statement.

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why all of you are getting worked up over this. You’re free to ingest as much Tylenol as you wish while pregnant.
It’s still legal.

At what point do these recommendations affect what insurance companies will cover or doctors' liability for compliant or non-compliant advice?

lol DCUM freaking out that Tylenol won’t be covered by insurance. Chefs kiss.

It's not about insurance coverage. It's about misleading information -- deliberately wrong information.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy. The other options OTC are not, especially past the 30 week time. And untreated fever in pregnancy really IS connected to autism.

And what will end up happening after this is women leaving fever untreated or thinking "I heard Tylenol is bad, I will take Ibuprofen instead."

The risk is premature closure of the PDA in utero, leading to fetal death.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy.

How do you know?

Because a giant study of 2.5 million children which controlled for genetic and familial factors found that any correlation with autism disappeared once those confounding factors were controlled for. In other words, the correlation found in some studies is related to confounds - genetics of who is more likely to take tylenol due to other predisposing factors.

That’d be a totally satisfactory response if there weren’t studies pointing in the other direction, but there are. Why don’t you credit those?

Because those studies do not control for confounding factors. They are lower quality studies.

They claim they do. One is literally called “Use of Negative Control Exposure Analysis to Evaluate Confounding: An Example of Acetaminophen Exposure and Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder in Nurses' Health Study II.”

Can you explain what how they are of lower quality? Or is it just that you’re heard smart people you trust say they’re of lower quality?

A potential confounder for the RN study that specifically applies during the pregnancy stage is the physical toll of working while pregnant. Shift work is extra stressful and exhausting when working while pregnant.

-Personal experience working pregnant as an RN through two pregnancies, one of which I was a med surg nurse and doing nights sometimes, while the other, I worked 9-5 in an office.

DP to add, and painful to do 12-13 hour shifts on your feet while pregnant. The belly, back, and leg pain, ugh it was exhausting. I was like a sausage from the waist down with my belly band support and compression stockings.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why all of you are getting worked up over this. You’re free to ingest as much Tylenol as you wish while pregnant.
It’s still legal.

At what point do these recommendations affect what insurance companies will cover or doctors' liability for compliant or non-compliant advice?

lol DCUM freaking out that Tylenol won’t be covered by insurance. Chefs kiss.

It's not about insurance coverage. It's about misleading information -- deliberately wrong information.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy. The other options OTC are not, especially past the 30 week time. And untreated fever in pregnancy really IS connected to autism.

And what will end up happening after this is women leaving fever untreated or thinking "I heard Tylenol is bad, I will take Ibuprofen instead."

The risk is premature closure of the PDA in utero, leading to fetal death.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy.

How do you know?

Because a giant study of 2.5 million children which controlled for genetic and familial factors found that any correlation with autism disappeared once those confounding factors were controlled for. In other words, the correlation found in some studies is related to confounds - genetics of who is more likely to take tylenol due to other predisposing factors.

That’d be a totally satisfactory response if there weren’t studies pointing in the other direction, but there are. Why don’t you credit those?

Because those studies do not control for confounding factors. They are lower quality studies.

They claim they do. One is literally called “Use of Negative Control Exposure Analysis to Evaluate Confounding: An Example of Acetaminophen Exposure and Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder in Nurses' Health Study II.”

Can you explain what how they are of lower quality? Or is it just that you’re heard smart people you trust say they’re of lower quality?

A potential confounder for the RN study that specifically applies during the pregnancy stage is the physical toll of working while pregnant. Shift work is extra stressful and exhausting when working while pregnant.

-Personal experience working pregnant as an RN through two pregnancies, one of which I was a med surg nurse and doing nights sometimes, while the other, I worked 9-5 in an office.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why all of you are getting worked up over this. You’re free to ingest as much Tylenol as you wish while pregnant.
It’s still legal.

At what point do these recommendations affect what insurance companies will cover or doctors' liability for compliant or non-compliant advice?

lol DCUM freaking out that Tylenol won’t be covered by insurance. Chefs kiss.

It's not about insurance coverage. It's about misleading information -- deliberately wrong information.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy. The other options OTC are not, especially past the 30 week time. And untreated fever in pregnancy really IS connected to autism.

And what will end up happening after this is women leaving fever untreated or thinking "I heard Tylenol is bad, I will take Ibuprofen instead."

The risk is premature closure of the PDA in utero, leading to fetal death.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy.

How do you know?

Because a giant study of 2.5 million children which controlled for genetic and familial factors found that any correlation with autism disappeared once those confounding factors were controlled for. In other words, the correlation found in some studies is related to confounds - genetics of who is more likely to take tylenol due to other predisposing factors.

That’d be a totally satisfactory response if there weren’t studies pointing in the other direction, but there are. Why don’t you credit those?

Because those studies do not control for confounding factors. They are lower quality studies.

They claim they do. One is literally called “Use of Negative Control Exposure Analysis to Evaluate Confounding: An Example of Acetaminophen Exposure and Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder in Nurses' Health Study II.”

Can you explain what how they are of lower quality? Or is it just that you’re heard smart people you trust say they’re of lower quality?

Okay, let's take a look at this one. What is its GRADE scoring ?

I’m not sure. Do you know that it has one? I wouldn’t assume that you can just pop a study in a database and get its GRADE score; I’m pretty sure that kind of assessment is almost like a study unto itself (i.e., a person who is knowledgeable in the field looks at the study and its supporting materials and analyses design). If you’ve got that, I’m interested to see

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why all of you are getting worked up over this. You’re free to ingest as much Tylenol as you wish while pregnant.
It’s still legal.

At what point do these recommendations affect what insurance companies will cover or doctors' liability for compliant or non-compliant advice?

lol DCUM freaking out that Tylenol won’t be covered by insurance. Chefs kiss.

It's not about insurance coverage. It's about misleading information -- deliberately wrong information.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy. The other options OTC are not, especially past the 30 week time. And untreated fever in pregnancy really IS connected to autism.

And what will end up happening after this is women leaving fever untreated or thinking "I heard Tylenol is bad, I will take Ibuprofen instead."

The risk is premature closure of the PDA in utero, leading to fetal death.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy.

How do you know?

Because a giant study of 2.5 million children which controlled for genetic and familial factors found that any correlation with autism disappeared once those confounding factors were controlled for. In other words, the correlation found in some studies is related to confounds - genetics of who is more likely to take tylenol due to other predisposing factors.

That’d be a totally satisfactory response if there weren’t studies pointing in the other direction, but there are. Why don’t you credit those?

Because those studies do not control for confounding factors. They are lower quality studies.

They claim they do. One is literally called “Use of Negative Control Exposure Analysis to Evaluate Confounding: An Example of Acetaminophen Exposure and Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder in Nurses' Health Study II.”

Can you explain what how they are of lower quality? Or is it just that you’re heard smart people you trust say they’re of lower quality?

Okay, let's take a look at this one. What is its GRADE scoring ?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why all of you are getting worked up over this. You’re free to ingest as much Tylenol as you wish while pregnant.
It’s still legal.

At what point do these recommendations affect what insurance companies will cover or doctors' liability for compliant or non-compliant advice?

lol DCUM freaking out that Tylenol won’t be covered by insurance. Chefs kiss.

It's not about insurance coverage. It's about misleading information -- deliberately wrong information.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy. The other options OTC are not, especially past the 30 week time. And untreated fever in pregnancy really IS connected to autism.

And what will end up happening after this is women leaving fever untreated or thinking "I heard Tylenol is bad, I will take Ibuprofen instead."

The risk is premature closure of the PDA in utero, leading to fetal death.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy.

How do you know?

Because a giant study of 2.5 million children which controlled for genetic and familial factors found that any correlation with autism disappeared once those confounding factors were controlled for. In other words, the correlation found in some studies is related to confounds - genetics of who is more likely to take tylenol due to other predisposing factors.

That’d be a totally satisfactory response if there weren’t studies pointing in the other direction, but there are. Why don’t you credit those?

DP. Because they are lower quality research. The way health care studies are compared is using the GRADE tool. Cite your favorite of any of those threads, and we can compare the GRADE score in detail.

Introduction to the GRADE tool for rating certainty in evidence and recommendations
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213398423002713

The GRADE (Grading of Recommendations Assessment, Development, and Evaluation) tool is a systematic approach used to assess the certainty of evidence and strength of recommendations in healthcare guidelines. It emphasizes the importance of considering the strengths and weaknesses of the evidence, as well as values, preferences, and practical considerations when making healthcare decisions. The GRADE methodology aims to enhance transparency, consistency, and rigor in evaluating evidence and informing clinical decision-making. GRADE uses a structured approach to assign a rating of high, moderate, low, or very low certainty to the evidence. Factors affecting certainty—study design, risk of bias, inconsistency, indirectness, imprecision, and publication bias—are considered in rating the certainty or confidence in evidence.

Anonymous wrote:Good on the WSJ for calling out RFK's move for what it is: profits in the so-called "wellness" industry.

Ah yes, wellness. That’s where the big $$$ is found in health.

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why all of you are getting worked up over this. You’re free to ingest as much Tylenol as you wish while pregnant.
It’s still legal.

At what point do these recommendations affect what insurance companies will cover or doctors' liability for compliant or non-compliant advice?

lol DCUM freaking out that Tylenol won’t be covered by insurance. Chefs kiss.

It's not about insurance coverage. It's about misleading information -- deliberately wrong information.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy. The other options OTC are not, especially past the 30 week time. And untreated fever in pregnancy really IS connected to autism.

And what will end up happening after this is women leaving fever untreated or thinking "I heard Tylenol is bad, I will take Ibuprofen instead."

The risk is premature closure of the PDA in utero, leading to fetal death.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy.

How do you know?

Because a giant study of 2.5 million children which controlled for genetic and familial factors found that any correlation with autism disappeared once those confounding factors were controlled for. In other words, the correlation found in some studies is related to confounds - genetics of who is more likely to take tylenol due to other predisposing factors.

That’d be a totally satisfactory response if there weren’t studies pointing in the other direction, but there are. Why don’t you credit those?

Because those studies do not control for confounding factors. They are lower quality studies.

They claim they do. One is literally called “Use of Negative Control Exposure Analysis to Evaluate Confounding: An Example of Acetaminophen Exposure and Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder in Nurses' Health Study II.”

Can you explain what how they are of lower quality? Or is it just that you’re heard smart people you trust say they’re of lower quality?

Much smaller sample size, limited to females in the nursing profession, does not account for confounding as well as the swiss study. "However, we cannot rule out the possibility of other uncontrolled risk factors for ADHD that are uniquely correlated with the use of acetaminophen during the pregnancy period"

No, not as high quality as the swiss study.

1. Why does small sample size matter? I get that it can be a problem in some studies where statistical significance goes unachieved, but statistical significance was achieved here. It’s not like we just chuck out existing studies when a bigger one comes along.

2. You’re right that you generally want a big, diverse study, but that’s usually because you want to make sure you’re not overlooking idiosyncratic results that occur in some edge case. In other words, if you want to prove that fancy new drug X is safe and effective for adults, you should recruit a robust mix of people lest you discover that it actually isn’t so good for a subset of people. (For an interesting read, check out the history of Bidil, a drug that was—controversially—approved to treat congestive heart failure in black people but not white people.) But you’re kind of inverting this logic. You’re suggesting that if a big robust study finds no association, then it must be that an association observed in a less representative study must be wrong. That doesn’t follow.

3. Saying that they can’t rule out the possibility of uncontrolled risk factors doesn’t mean that uncontrolled risk factors exist, much less that they account for all of the findings, not just in this study but all of the ones outside of Sweden.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why all of you are getting worked up over this. You’re free to ingest as much Tylenol as you wish while pregnant.
It’s still legal.

At what point do these recommendations affect what insurance companies will cover or doctors' liability for compliant or non-compliant advice?

lol DCUM freaking out that Tylenol won’t be covered by insurance. Chefs kiss.

It's not about insurance coverage. It's about misleading information -- deliberately wrong information.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy. The other options OTC are not, especially past the 30 week time. And untreated fever in pregnancy really IS connected to autism.

And what will end up happening after this is women leaving fever untreated or thinking "I heard Tylenol is bad, I will take Ibuprofen instead."

The risk is premature closure of the PDA in utero, leading to fetal death.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy.

How do you know?

Because a giant study of 2.5 million children which controlled for genetic and familial factors found that any correlation with autism disappeared once those confounding factors were controlled for. In other words, the correlation found in some studies is related to confounds - genetics of who is more likely to take tylenol due to other predisposing factors.

That’d be a totally satisfactory response if there weren’t studies pointing in the other direction, but there are. Why don’t you credit those?

Because those studies do not control for confounding factors. They are lower quality studies.

They claim they do. One is literally called “Use of Negative Control Exposure Analysis to Evaluate Confounding: An Example of Acetaminophen Exposure and Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder in Nurses' Health Study II.”

Can you explain what how they are of lower quality? Or is it just that you’re heard smart people you trust say they’re of lower quality?

Much smaller sample size, limited to females in the nursing profession, does not account for confounding as well as the swiss study. "However, we cannot rule out the possibility of other uncontrolled risk factors for ADHD that are uniquely correlated with the use of acetaminophen during the pregnancy period"

No, not as high quality as the swiss study.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why all of you are getting worked up over this. You’re free to ingest as much Tylenol as you wish while pregnant.
It’s still legal.

At what point do these recommendations affect what insurance companies will cover or doctors' liability for compliant or non-compliant advice?

lol DCUM freaking out that Tylenol won’t be covered by insurance. Chefs kiss.

It's not about insurance coverage. It's about misleading information -- deliberately wrong information.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy. The other options OTC are not, especially past the 30 week time. And untreated fever in pregnancy really IS connected to autism.

And what will end up happening after this is women leaving fever untreated or thinking "I heard Tylenol is bad, I will take Ibuprofen instead."

The risk is premature closure of the PDA in utero, leading to fetal death.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy.

How do you know?

Because a giant study of 2.5 million children which controlled for genetic and familial factors found that any correlation with autism disappeared once those confounding factors were controlled for. In other words, the correlation found in some studies is related to confounds - genetics of who is more likely to take tylenol due to other predisposing factors.

That’d be a totally satisfactory response if there weren’t studies pointing in the other direction, but there are. Why don’t you credit those?

Because those studies do not control for confounding factors. They are lower quality studies.

They claim they do. One is literally called “Use of Negative Control Exposure Analysis to Evaluate Confounding: An Example of Acetaminophen Exposure and Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder in Nurses' Health Study II.”

Can you explain what how they are of lower quality? Or is it just that you’re heard smart people you trust say they’re of lower quality?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why all of you are getting worked up over this. You’re free to ingest as much Tylenol as you wish while pregnant.
It’s still legal.

At what point do these recommendations affect what insurance companies will cover or doctors' liability for compliant or non-compliant advice?

lol DCUM freaking out that Tylenol won’t be covered by insurance. Chefs kiss.

It's not about insurance coverage. It's about misleading information -- deliberately wrong information.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy. The other options OTC are not, especially past the 30 week time. And untreated fever in pregnancy really IS connected to autism.

And what will end up happening after this is women leaving fever untreated or thinking "I heard Tylenol is bad, I will take Ibuprofen instead."

The risk is premature closure of the PDA in utero, leading to fetal death.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy.

How do you know?

Because a giant study of 2.5 million children which controlled for genetic and familial factors found that any correlation with autism disappeared once those confounding factors were controlled for. In other words, the correlation found in some studies is related to confounds - genetics of who is more likely to take tylenol due to other predisposing factors.

That’d be a totally satisfactory response if there weren’t studies pointing in the other direction, but there are. Why don’t you credit those?

Because of the bolded above that explains the correlation found in other studies.

What exactly did Trump’s mother take while pregnant to end up with a son who is a sex offender? THAT is the drug all pregnant women should avoid.

Oh, and also the drug that ensures your kid grows up to become a heroin addict who can’t stay the f$?:! away from dead animals.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why all of you are getting worked up over this. You’re free to ingest as much Tylenol as you wish while pregnant.
It’s still legal.

At what point do these recommendations affect what insurance companies will cover or doctors' liability for compliant or non-compliant advice?

lol DCUM freaking out that Tylenol won’t be covered by insurance. Chefs kiss.

It's not about insurance coverage. It's about misleading information -- deliberately wrong information.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy. The other options OTC are not, especially past the 30 week time. And untreated fever in pregnancy really IS connected to autism.

And what will end up happening after this is women leaving fever untreated or thinking "I heard Tylenol is bad, I will take Ibuprofen instead."

The risk is premature closure of the PDA in utero, leading to fetal death.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy.

How do you know?

Because a giant study of 2.5 million children which controlled for genetic and familial factors found that any correlation with autism disappeared once those confounding factors were controlled for. In other words, the correlation found in some studies is related to confounds - genetics of who is more likely to take tylenol due to other predisposing factors.

That’d be a totally satisfactory response if there weren’t studies pointing in the other direction, but there are. Why don’t you credit those?

Because those studies do not control for confounding factors. They are lower quality studies.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I heard liberal women are popping Tylenol in defiance.

I hear MAGA men can't get laid

Cite?

DP. Why do you need data when it’s just logical? More young women are liberal than men, who are conservative. IDK if they’re getting laid, but young women have been saying all over media they don’t want to settle with a conservative guy. Why would you want to be with a guy who supports you having fewer rights than him? (Yes, we have a very slippery slope here.) So, conservative women really are the ones who have a plethora of conservative guys.

+1

We have the leader of the DOD/DOW tweeting out support of religious leaders discussing how women should be subservient to men and we should even repeal the 19th amendment. Charlie Kirk told Taylor Swift to submit to Kelce

Not a winning strategy for men who purport to want to get married. Very unattractive and unappealing.

I grew up reading the Little House books and it always stuck with me that even Laura Ingalls told Almanzo Wilder, before marrying him, that she could not agree to "obey" him in her marital vows. That was back around the 1880s. How are we going backwards on this??

I remember that from her books, too. She’d probably roll her eyes not only at Trump and Kirk but also the MAGA women who back them.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why all of you are getting worked up over this. You’re free to ingest as much Tylenol as you wish while pregnant.
It’s still legal.

At what point do these recommendations affect what insurance companies will cover or doctors' liability for compliant or non-compliant advice?

lol DCUM freaking out that Tylenol won’t be covered by insurance. Chefs kiss.

It's not about insurance coverage. It's about misleading information -- deliberately wrong information.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy. The other options OTC are not, especially past the 30 week time. And untreated fever in pregnancy really IS connected to autism.

And what will end up happening after this is women leaving fever untreated or thinking "I heard Tylenol is bad, I will take Ibuprofen instead."

The risk is premature closure of the PDA in utero, leading to fetal death.

Tylenol is safe in pregnancy.

How do you know?

Because a giant study of 2.5 million children which controlled for genetic and familial factors found that any correlation with autism disappeared once those confounding factors were controlled for. In other words, the correlation found in some studies is related to confounds - genetics of who is more likely to take tylenol due to other predisposing factors.

That’d be a totally satisfactory response if there weren’t studies pointing in the other direction, but there are. Why don’t you credit those?