Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband asked, in regard to the hantavirus, could rodents have come in after… and this is why hantavirus appears?

I guess medical examiners may have seen that before? In cases where there has been a delay in discovery? I don’t know, but they would.

No. Good grief. Do some people not understand basic biology and medicine? Dead people don't contract viruses. Viruses need LIVE CELLS to replicate in humans. They hijack the machinery of the cell, again let me reiterate the living cell, to replicate. She didn't have hantavirus "sprinkled" on her clothes by marauding rats or something. Medical examiners know what hantavirus pulmonary syndrome looks like. They know what lungs infected by HPS look like, which require the person to have been ALIVE and BREATHING for the virus to get into their lungs and replicate there and kill them. They wouldn't have said she died of it if they did not see the evidence in her lungs and tissues.

Good grief right back.
You’ve answered my question.

I didn’t see the part about it being deep in her lungs. That was the only basic question—did rodents appear on the scene later and leave traces. It’s a fair question from someone who didn’t read every single piece.

Nowhere did I argue that like the person above ^^ that it is released upon decomposing. What?

It's not a fair question. It's a ridiculous one. What do you mean, "the part about it being deep in her lungs?" The medical examiner said she died of hantavirus. That's literally what it is. It's like hearing that someone died of AIDS and then being surprised that it affected their immune system. If you think the only evidence of this was "traces" left by nearby rodents, then how exactly do you think she died? You think that she died of something else completely separate, like a massive aneurysm that the medical examiner somehow missed during the autopsy, and that a hantavirus-carrying mouse then came near the body and pooped or something, and this made the medical examiner become confused and guess that she had died of hantavirus just based on that? Like, what is the logic?

Anonymous wrote:Did Gene not notice Betsy on the bathroom floor?
Do you not notice things like that with Alzeihmers? Or maybe he noticed, but bc of his lack of mental logic didn't do anything? Or his attempt to "help" was going to walk to a neighbor's house (He was found dead in the mudroom).

He might have noticed, thought he'd get help, then went to put his coat on and go out, only to forget why he'd put his coat on. He might have noticed, thought he'd get help, and forget when he was two steps past the bathroom. That could have happened dozens of times for days before he died. He could have discovered his wife and caregiver dead on the floor over and over again. Alzheimer's is terrifying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They clearly wanted to live alone without any help, and they paid the price. What a sad story.

It was their choice. The ironic part is that their death got so much publicity despite their desire for privacy.

I think of people like Alicia Witt's parents, who had to have known that they'd be found dead together one day. They were eccentric, but they were smart and I don't think they were suffering from dementia. They wanted to be completely alone, and their end was a logical consequence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband asked, in regard to the hantavirus, could rodents have come in after… and this is why hantavirus appears?

I guess medical examiners may have seen that before? In cases where there has been a delay in discovery? I don’t know, but they would.

No. Good grief. Do some people not understand basic biology and medicine? Dead people don't contract viruses. Viruses need LIVE CELLS to replicate in humans. They hijack the machinery of the cell, again let me reiterate the living cell, to replicate. She didn't have hantavirus "sprinkled" on her clothes by marauding rats or something. Medical examiners know what hantavirus pulmonary syndrome looks like. They know what lungs infected by HPS look like, which require the person to have been ALIVE and BREATHING for the virus to get into their lungs and replicate there and kill them. They wouldn't have said she died of it if they did not see the evidence in her lungs and tissues.

Good grief right back.
You’ve answered my question.

I didn’t see the part about it being deep in her lungs. That was the only basic question—did rodents appear on the scene later and leave traces. It’s a fair question from someone who didn’t read every single piece.

Nowhere did I argue that like the person above ^^ that it is released upon decomposing. What?

So was Gene just roaming around the house aimlessly for a few days by himself and totally unaware Betsy was dead? He didn't even gear a presumably barking dog in his crate?
I know he had Alzeheimers, but does that make you not even realize your wife/caretaker is not there?

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Anonymous wrote:How many responses are from 50-60 years old with a 95 year old parent married to a loving wife in her 60s?

Why does the age of the parent’s spouse factor in with how often someone checks in with their own parent?

+1 seriously!

If the concern is genuinely that they might be dying, then if matters because they have someone else who is able to take care of them in the vast majority of circumstances. Whatever happened here is the outlier, not a normal experience for someone in their 60s.

DP.

Thank you for your very clinical response.

+1 unemotional and unfeeling. We often see and hear of people left alone in nursing homes with fewvor no family visits or calls. Very sad.

What’s sad is that they often are simply reaping what they’ve sown, but because they’re old, you assume they’re the neglected victims.

I only know how I would treat elderly parents and grandparents. No one in our extended family would die and remain on the floor with no one knowing an out the death for weeks. If you think keeping a distance and not contacting someone for weeks is appropriate for your family members, then so be it.

*But I'm in my 40s and honestly I guess I don't know how I'd truly act two decades from now. I'll check back when I'm 65 and my 95 year old absentee father has a wife my age.

If you love a parent, you stay in touch, regardless of the spouse's age. Maybe not every day but frequently. His daughter said he was doing pilates and yoga. No, he wasn't. She was out of touch. He was frail, thin, and either used his cane or leaned on his wife when they went out.

Check back when you're 65 and your 95 year old absentee father has a wife your age.

I don't need to check back. My father died at age 88.

If you had checked in more he could have lived to 95.

Thanks for your touching concern. He lived with my sister and her family.

PP is one sick bish. Ignore her.

Nah, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. The daughter who insinuated that these complete strangers didn’t love their dad is opening herself up for judgement. And it sounds like she did the EXACT same thing as Hackman’s kids, which was to rely on *other people* (her sister and her sister’s family) to take care of him. Maybe she’s projecting, but either way her comments were gross.

Anonymous wrote:My husband asked, in regard to the hantavirus, could rodents have come in after… and this is why hantavirus appears?

I guess medical examiners may have seen that before? In cases where there has been a delay in discovery? I don’t know, but they would.

No. Good grief. Do some people not understand basic biology and medicine? Dead people don't contract viruses. Viruses need LIVE CELLS to replicate in humans. They hijack the machinery of the cell, again let me reiterate the living cell, to replicate. She didn't have hantavirus "sprinkled" on her clothes by marauding rats or something. Medical examiners know what hantavirus pulmonary syndrome looks like. They know what lungs infected by HPS look like, which require the person to have been ALIVE and BREATHING for the virus to get into their lungs and replicate there and kill them. They wouldn't have said she died of it if they did not see the evidence in her lungs and tissues.

Anonymous wrote:My husband asked, in regard to the hantavirus, could rodents have come in after… and this is why hantavirus appears?

I guess medical examiners may have seen that before? In cases where there has been a delay in discovery? I don’t know, but they would.

FFS no. Please search or read through the last few pages of the thread. It’s not a product of decomposition. It’s a virus.

Very sad, people don't care about anybody, empathy is missing in most human beings. Blessings to those who care for family, and neighbors.

My husband asked, in regard to the hantavirus, could rodents have come in after… and this is why hantavirus appears?

I guess medical examiners may have seen that before? In cases where there has been a delay in discovery? I don’t know, but they would.

Ok, but did they not have any helpers? Cleaning crew, gardeners, etc etc etc? No way Betsy did everything.

Anonymous wrote:Betsy died first from Hantavirus. She was in the bathroom getting her daily prescription when she was overcome, collapsed and expired.

Gene was in poor health plus Alzheimer's. With Betsy gone, he was not getting his daily meds. Subsequently he too expired several days later as his body couldn't function without the heart medications.

The poor dog in the crate expired from lack of water. It's interesting the two other dogs survived - but what were they eating and drinking? Perhaps there was a natural water source they had access to. If they were running at large, were they roaming throughout the neighborhood? How is it possible nobody thought that was strange? Were they always roaming? I would have to guess Betsy treated them like her babies, and they would not ordinarily be roaming at large.

Try not to think about this too hard, is my advice.

My theory is as people are figuring, near-simultaneous medical incidents.

Friends said they were happy and healthy.

This kind of scenario is exactly how I pictured (but not to be, thank goodness) my two parents passing because they were retired, hanging around all day. One helped the other with physical stuff, one helped the other with house knowledge. They slept in different places for their different medical needs and space (not because of any loss of love).

We didn’t know who would go first, because my dad (older) would be likely to with age, because men go early. Or my mom, younger, but more genetic stuff, incidents.

Again, this is not how it happened with my parents, but if it did, that’s exactly what it would look like.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't Betsy had symptoms of hanta virus (flu like symptoms)?

And it never occurred to her to call a doctor?

A 65 yr old with relentless fatigue, breathing trouble, fever, (HV symptoms) etc...and not a call to, at the very least, to the doctor?

That's actually very believable. I'm a caregiver (posted earlier last week) and 57. It takes a LOT to get me to go see a doctor. By the time I finally go, I should be admitted to the hospital, basically.

+1 My BFF lost both her parents last year within days of each other. Her mother had Parkinson’s and was nearing the end, was still at home with BFF’s father and one of their daughters. A couple days before the mother died, the father (who was in his 80s but heretofore fine) had to go to the hospital because he had been having chest pains for days but “didn’t want to bother anyone.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't Betsy had symptoms of hanta virus (flu like symptoms)?

And it never occurred to her to call a doctor?

A 65 yr old with relentless fatigue, breathing trouble, fever, (HV symptoms) etc...and not a call to, at the very least, to the doctor?

That's actually very believable. I'm a caregiver (posted earlier last week) and 57. It takes a LOT to get me to go see a doctor. By the time I finally go, I should be admitted to the hospital, basically.

That's not very smart if someone is dependent on you ...

I wonder if we could charge her with negligence?