The argument that illegal immigrants pay their fair share of taxes is rife with flaws. If you look at who crunched the numbers that are always cited, it is always a left leaning nonprofit or think that tank.

Problems with the arguments that illegals do pay taxes:

* It is argued illegals taxes like sales and property when they rent or own a home. Counter argument: so what? These are consumptive taxes. Every single person pays most of those. Guess who else pays sales and property taxes? Tourists do too. Because tourists pay sales and property taxes when they stay in a hotel or rent an Airbnb means they should now have unfettered access to all of the social benefits of the US as of they're citizens? Heck no. If you go travel to Europe as a tourist or as a study abroad student, do you get to have access to their pensions, universal health care and can enroll your kids in their schools simply because you pay VAT or property taxes staying at a hotel? No. So the fact that illegal immigrants pay consumptive taxes is moot and contributes nothing to the argument that that they're some how legitimate and providing a benefit to the US. You can use the same line of reasoning for tourists, but it would be incredibly stupid. Yet they try to use it to justify the presence of illegal immigrants.

* Flaws when it is pointed out that illegal immigrants pay federal, social security and state income taxes. This is a bogus argument rife with suspect data. First off, it is impossible to pay those taxes without a legally given social security number and a valid I9. How in the heck can illegal immigrants pay those taxes if they can gain neither a valid SSN nor an authorized I9? This is where liberals will state illegals use either a fake SSN/identity or an ITN. So let me get this straight, illegals pay income and state taxes by committing more crimes, which includes either identity fraud or even identity theft? Yay, great way to be in a country, first enter illegally, then commit even more crimes like identity fraud. Using ITNs? Sure, OK, but if you think the vast majority of illegal immigrants are filing via ITNs and are truthfully reporting all of their cash receipts they get under the table, I have a bridge to sell you.

The argument illegals pay taxes is so suspect and filled with faulty logic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is Trump going to make an example of businesses that hire undocumented workers? Wouldn’t that be an effective deterrent? If not, how come?

Here’s the issue. As an employer I’m not allowed to question documents even if I suspect they’re false. I’m also not allowed to not hire someone based on those suspicions. You can’t make an example of me simply because my defense would be "how was I supposed to know". You can’t sue a business for questioning documents and blame them for not questioning them at the same time.

So, since you are so anti immigration, why would you hire someone you suspect is illegal? What is he gonna do, sue you for discrimination? I think you are full of shit

Actually yes, there are Lawyers who specialize in exactly that. Suing employers for questioning documents. There’s even a dot gov page about it.

https://www.justice.gov/crt/immigrant-and-employee-rights-section

Aha. So the ILLEGAL immigrant will show up in court to sue you for not hiring them. Again, full of shit

Yes, they actually the right to. It can, and does happen. Look at the rights they have under e verify

https://www.e-verify.gov/employees/employee-rights-and-responsibilities

DP. Pretty sure an undocumented migrant is not going to out themselves by suing you in court, regardless of what e-verify says. You still haven’t told us what kind of a business you run. Context is important.

I own automotive detail shops. Again, undocumented workers have the right to sue and it not flag immigration.

https://www.kingsleykingsley.com/can-undocumented-workers-make-legal-claims-for-unpaid-wages

Well yes they can sue you if you hire them and don’t pay them. Do you think you are entitled to their labor for free?

A page ago there was "no way" an undocumented worker was going to show up to court, now "of course they can sue you"

Well, which is it?

This is just going to make things worse for US businesses.

My company has been working on a big deal with a Colombian government entity for a year now. Slowly working through the process - hundreds of man hours invested on top of thousands of $$ spent traveling to meetings there & doing demos there. All for what? This hombre naranja to waddle in and probably screw the deal. You think the Colombian gov is going to be allowed to buy from a US supplier now? GTFO. A high 5-figure deal is a big ass deal for a small business to secure.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are cute. I suspect it's a lot more expensive to fly military plains than civilian flights. Who is paying for that? You are. Enjoy your coffee while you can afford it.

Right? $850,000 to send 80 migrants back to Colombia only to be turned around.

We’ve been deporting on civilian flights since the 50s. If you want to toss 1.3 million dollars worth of military flights around for a total of 400 illegals immigrants, don’t complain that the government is inefficient and wasteful.

I hope someone somewhere is tallying up how much Trump is costing the U.S. taxpayer.

There are these wasteful flights at $1 million a pop. All the Feds he’s put on administrative leave who are being paid to not work. Trump is a dork.

So give them a parachute and don’t land. That works too.

Air to air refueling is expensive/ but hey get to where they are from either way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is Trump going to make an example of businesses that hire undocumented workers? Wouldn’t that be an effective deterrent? If not, how come?

Here’s the issue. As an employer I’m not allowed to question documents even if I suspect they’re false. I’m also not allowed to not hire someone based on those suspicions. You can’t make an example of me simply because my defense would be "how was I supposed to know". You can’t sue a business for questioning documents and blame them for not questioning them at the same time.

So, since you are so anti immigration, why would you hire someone you suspect is illegal? What is he gonna do, sue you for discrimination? I think you are full of shit

Actually yes, there are Lawyers who specialize in exactly that. Suing employers for questioning documents. There’s even a dot gov page about it.

https://www.justice.gov/crt/immigrant-and-employee-rights-section

Aha. So the ILLEGAL immigrant will show up in court to sue you for not hiring them. Again, full of shit

Yes, they actually the right to. It can, and does happen. Look at the rights they have under e verify

https://www.e-verify.gov/employees/employee-rights-and-responsibilities

DP. Pretty sure an undocumented migrant is not going to out themselves by suing you in court, regardless of what e-verify says. You still haven’t told us what kind of a business you run. Context is important.

I own automotive detail shops. Again, undocumented workers have the right to sue and it not flag immigration.

https://www.kingsleykingsley.com/can-undocumented-workers-make-legal-claims-for-unpaid-wages

Well yes they can sue you if you hire them and don’t pay them. Do you think you are entitled to their labor for free?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colombia's issue is that these flights are being done inhumanely and they don't know who's on these planes.

Brazil is "outraged" with how their deportation flights were handled. Remember, these aren't deadly criminals.

Edgar Da Silva Moura, a 31-year-old computer technician, was on the flight, after seven months in detention in the United States.

“On the plane they didn’t give us water, we were tied hands and feet, they wouldn’t even let us go to the bathroom,” he told AFP.

“It was very hot, some people fainted.”

Luis Antonio Rodrigues Santos, a 21-year-old freelancer, recounted the “nightmare” of people with “respiratory problems” during “four hours without air conditioning” due to technical issues on the plane.

“Things have already changed (with Trump), immigrants are treated as criminals,” he said.

The flight was originally destined for the southeastern city of Belo Horizonte, but encountered a technical issue forcing it to land in Manaus.

A government source told AFP the deportation flight was not directly linked to any immigration orders issued by Trump upon taking office Monday, but rather stemmed from a 2017 bilateral agreement.

Brazil’s Minister of Human Rights, Macae Evaristo, told journalists that “children with autism ... who went through very serious experiences” were also on the flight.

Footage on Brazilian television showed some passengers descending from the civilian aircraft, with their hands handcuffed and their ankles shackled.

“Upon learning of the situation, President Lula ordered that a Brazilian Air Force (FAB) aircraft be mobilised to transport the Brazilians to their final destination, in order to ensure that they could complete their journey with dignity and safety,” the justice ministry said.

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20250126-brazil-outraged-after-us-deportees-arrive-handcuffed-colombia-to-refuse-us-deportation-flights

FAFO.

Maybe don’t illegally stay in a country.

They are migrants who waved their right to continue through the overburdened US immigration system and go home instead. The "self-deporters"
Including children. They shouldn't be shackled, denied food and water and the bathroom for hours-long plane flights.

That IS inhumane and we're the f'in United States of America, and we're the good guys. Stop letting Trump try to turn our country into a mirror image of his bullying, sociopathic self.

According to who?

This isn't "Trump" it's all the people who voted for him, he's been making his plans clear for 10+ yrs at this point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I care more about how illegal immigrants have placed such a drain on our economy.

Ironically, the illegal immigrants are not actually a drain on our economy. They work jobs that native born Americans won't do and they don't collect what they pay into the system in the form of payroll and sales taxes. They work harder because they are more desperate.

According to most economic research, the net economic impact of illegal immigrants on the US economy is generally considered to be positive, as they contribute to the economy by paying taxes, filling labor gaps in certain sectors, and boosting consumer spending, although the exact impact is debated and can vary depending on factors like the specific demographics of the immigrant population and regional economic conditions; however, some argue that the costs associated with social services and potential wage depression for low-skilled workers can partially offset these positive effects.

Well then; it’s been “studied” to find the conclusion wanted. So let’s just not even have citizenship or borders. What a crazy concept in the first place.

Why stop there. Why even have a nation state. We all know how horrible the United States of America is. Might as well just toss that out while we are at it.

Rant away all you want. This group of people is significant to our economy.

You think if you go ahead and scratch your itch about this fake idea that we don't have a country if we don't deport all these people., anything is going to improve.
It will be a net negative to this country and lots of families, maybe including yours, just to "own the libs' or some such nonsense.

I don't have all the answers. This negotiated border bill seems like it would be a good place to start since it was accomplished by our elected representatives. Letting Trump loose with some half-baked mass deportation scheme that seems incredibly poorly thought out doesn't really seem to be helping you or me or anyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is Trump going to make an example of businesses that hire undocumented workers? Wouldn’t that be an effective deterrent? If not, how come?

Here’s the issue. As an employer I’m not allowed to question documents even if I suspect they’re false. I’m also not allowed to not hire someone based on those suspicions. You can’t make an example of me simply because my defense would be "how was I supposed to know". You can’t sue a business for questioning documents and blame them for not questioning them at the same time.

So, since you are so anti immigration, why would you hire someone you suspect is illegal? What is he gonna do, sue you for discrimination? I think you are full of shit

Actually yes, there are Lawyers who specialize in exactly that. Suing employers for questioning documents. There’s even a dot gov page about it.

https://www.justice.gov/crt/immigrant-and-employee-rights-section

Aha. So the ILLEGAL immigrant will show up in court to sue you for not hiring them. Again, full of shit

Yes, they actually the right to. It can, and does happen. Look at the rights they have under e verify

https://www.e-verify.gov/employees/employee-rights-and-responsibilities

DP. Pretty sure an undocumented migrant is not going to out themselves by suing you in court, regardless of what e-verify says. You still haven’t told us what kind of a business you run. Context is important.

I own automotive detail shops. Again, undocumented workers have the right to sue and it not flag immigration.

https://www.kingsleykingsley.com/can-undocumented-workers-make-legal-claims-for-unpaid-wages

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is Trump going to make an example of businesses that hire undocumented workers? Wouldn’t that be an effective deterrent? If not, how come?

Here’s the issue. As an employer I’m not allowed to question documents even if I suspect they’re false. I’m also not allowed to not hire someone based on those suspicions. You can’t make an example of me simply because my defense would be "how was I supposed to know". You can’t sue a business for questioning documents and blame them for not questioning them at the same time.

You can use e-verify.

You are correct, and guess what? I still must hire them and let them work while they "resolve the mismatch".

Try again.

Why do you HAVE to hire them? What will happen to you?

I’ll get sued and lose. Don’t believe me? Look here. https://www.justice.gov/crt/immigrant-and-employee-rights-section

Once again, the ILLEGAL immigrant who is afraid of his own shadow will absolutely file a discrimination suit. Sorry, sell your bs elsewhere

Tell these guys they’re full of shit. They’ll be confused as that’s what they specialize in

https://www.kingsleykingsley.com/can-undocumented-workers-make-legal-claims-for-unpaid-wages

2. Wage Claims Are Not Tied To Immigration Enforcement

Labor law enforcement agencies, such as the Department of Labor (DOL) or state labor boards, are not concerned with a worker's immigration status. These agencies focus solely on ensuring that employers comply with wage and hour laws. Filing a wage claim will not trigger immigration enforcement.

Important Note: Employers who attempt to use a worker's undocumented status as a defense against wage claims are often met with legal sanctions. The law prohibits this type of intimidation or retaliation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is Trump going to make an example of businesses that hire undocumented workers? Wouldn’t that be an effective deterrent? If not, how come?

Here’s the issue. As an employer I’m not allowed to question documents even if I suspect they’re false. I’m also not allowed to not hire someone based on those suspicions. You can’t make an example of me simply because my defense would be "how was I supposed to know". You can’t sue a business for questioning documents and blame them for not questioning them at the same time.

So, since you are so anti immigration, why would you hire someone you suspect is illegal? What is he gonna do, sue you for discrimination? I think you are full of shit

Actually yes, there are Lawyers who specialize in exactly that. Suing employers for questioning documents. There’s even a dot gov page about it.

https://www.justice.gov/crt/immigrant-and-employee-rights-section

Aha. So the ILLEGAL immigrant will show up in court to sue you for not hiring them. Again, full of shit

Yes, they actually the right to. It can, and does happen. Look at the rights they have under e verify

https://www.e-verify.gov/employees/employee-rights-and-responsibilities

DP. Pretty sure an undocumented migrant is not going to out themselves by suing you in court, regardless of what e-verify says. You still haven’t told us what kind of a business you run. Context is important.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is Trump going to make an example of businesses that hire undocumented workers? Wouldn’t that be an effective deterrent? If not, how come?

Here’s the issue. As an employer I’m not allowed to question documents even if I suspect they’re false. I’m also not allowed to not hire someone based on those suspicions. You can’t make an example of me simply because my defense would be "how was I supposed to know". You can’t sue a business for questioning documents and blame them for not questioning them at the same time.

You can use e-verify.

You are correct, and guess what? I still must hire them and let them work while they "resolve the mismatch".

Try again.

It only takes a couple of months. Employees only have 8 days to contact the agency and resolve their mismatch. Once the employee refuse to take the steps (and if they are illegal, they will not follow the steps to resolve the mismatch), e-verify will send a final nonconfirmation, and you can let them go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is Trump going to make an example of businesses that hire undocumented workers? Wouldn’t that be an effective deterrent? If not, how come?

Here’s the issue. As an employer I’m not allowed to question documents even if I suspect they’re false. I’m also not allowed to not hire someone based on those suspicions. You can’t make an example of me simply because my defense would be "how was I supposed to know". You can’t sue a business for questioning documents and blame them for not questioning them at the same time.

You can use e-verify.

You are correct, and guess what? I still must hire them and let them work while they "resolve the mismatch".

Try again.

Why do you HAVE to hire them? What will happen to you?

I’ll get sued and lose. Don’t believe me? Look here. https://www.justice.gov/crt/immigrant-and-employee-rights-section

Once again, the ILLEGAL immigrant who is afraid of his own shadow will absolutely file a discrimination suit. Sorry, sell your bs elsewhere

PP’s whole point is that he doesn’t know which are illegal immigrants and which are legal. And he can’t ask, because if he does, 50% chance the applicant was a legal resident and then sues PP.

Put in other words, PP isn’t worried about the illegal immigrant suing him, he’s worried about the legal one doing it - and winning.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colombia's issue is that these flights are being done inhumanely and they don't know who's on these planes.

Brazil is "outraged" with how their deportation flights were handled. Remember, these aren't deadly criminals.

Edgar Da Silva Moura, a 31-year-old computer technician, was on the flight, after seven months in detention in the United States.

“On the plane they didn’t give us water, we were tied hands and feet, they wouldn’t even let us go to the bathroom,” he told AFP.

“It was very hot, some people fainted.”

Luis Antonio Rodrigues Santos, a 21-year-old freelancer, recounted the “nightmare” of people with “respiratory problems” during “four hours without air conditioning” due to technical issues on the plane.

“Things have already changed (with Trump), immigrants are treated as criminals,” he said.

The flight was originally destined for the southeastern city of Belo Horizonte, but encountered a technical issue forcing it to land in Manaus.

A government source told AFP the deportation flight was not directly linked to any immigration orders issued by Trump upon taking office Monday, but rather stemmed from a 2017 bilateral agreement.

Brazil’s Minister of Human Rights, Macae Evaristo, told journalists that “children with autism ... who went through very serious experiences” were also on the flight.

Footage on Brazilian television showed some passengers descending from the civilian aircraft, with their hands handcuffed and their ankles shackled.

“Upon learning of the situation, President Lula ordered that a Brazilian Air Force (FAB) aircraft be mobilised to transport the Brazilians to their final destination, in order to ensure that they could complete their journey with dignity and safety,” the justice ministry said.

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20250126-brazil-outraged-after-us-deportees-arrive-handcuffed-colombia-to-refuse-us-deportation-flights

Brazil has informed Rubio that should this happen again the flight crew will be arrested and detained for violating the civil rights of Brazilian citizens. Lula is seriously pissed.

And really he won't care about threats of tariffs. He'll just sell soy, oil, steel, coffee, sugar, etc. to China. He already proved he will stand up to US bullying when he opened the commodities markets to transactions based on yuan and not just dollars and reais. Pissed Biden off with that.

Exactly. He's going to drive all these countries right into China's arms.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is Trump going to make an example of businesses that hire undocumented workers? Wouldn’t that be an effective deterrent? If not, how come?

Here’s the issue. As an employer I’m not allowed to question documents even if I suspect they’re false. I’m also not allowed to not hire someone based on those suspicions. You can’t make an example of me simply because my defense would be "how was I supposed to know". You can’t sue a business for questioning documents and blame them for not questioning them at the same time.

So, since you are so anti immigration, why would you hire someone you suspect is illegal? What is he gonna do, sue you for discrimination? I think you are full of shit

Actually yes, there are Lawyers who specialize in exactly that. Suing employers for questioning documents. There’s even a dot gov page about it.

https://www.justice.gov/crt/immigrant-and-employee-rights-section

Aha. So the ILLEGAL immigrant will show up in court to sue you for not hiring them. Again, full of shit

Yes, they actually the right to. It can, and does happen. Look at the rights they have under e verify

https://www.e-verify.gov/employees/employee-rights-and-responsibilities

How do illegal immigrants pay into our taxes? They can’t be hired. Are you saying that they falsify documents in order to illegally work?

These people suck. I thought they were just coming into the country and staying with / being supported by their legal family members. I didn’t realize they were lying in the workplace too. Shame on them! Send them back!