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Anonymous wrote:Another year with ND in the top 20. Another year the haters will say it won't last. Always get a chuckle out of this.

Notre Dame is 3.59% black. Shameful

A Catholic school in Indiana isn’t a huge draw for POC? Shocking!!

ahem. Using the same argument, there should be only 18% Catholics at ND because Indiana is only 18% Catholic.

No, when doing this analysis the experts compare to the national percentage of blacks, which is 14%. Hence, Harvard's black population is 14%. So it is at the other top schools. How do they achieve this? By offering generous merit and financial aid packages. Clearly, ND isn't vested in increasing diversity for the sake of its own student body by trying to increase the number if black students, Catholic or not.

4% of US Catholics are black. This lines up with the percent of blacks at Notre Dame. Notre Dame is a religious school and has different institutional priorities than secular universities.

Agree. ND is well known for its religious priorities and the students it attracts. Why anyone would expect different percentages of ND is ludicrous. Move on folks.

+100

I am the one who posted that haters complain each year saying ND doesn't belong in T20. The fact of the matter is that ND will continue to focus it's priorities on its Catholic identity. This means there will be less appeal to the general non-Catholic public and limits its ability to attract people of more diversity. Despite ND's dedication to its strong Catholic identity, it manages to say on top of the rankings, likely because it makes up for this limitation with other very strong characteristics, like it's great academics, beautiful campus, strong athletics, and welcoming community. People here saying that other Catholic institutions manage to have more diversity, keep in mind that those schools are not as blatant about its religious affiliation. Specifically, ND has chapels in all of it's residence halls, a very active basilica on campus, Touchdown Jesus, the grotto, and many of the main student events have an element of religion sprinkled in. This might make some students uncomfortable -- hence the attraction is just not there. Still, it remains a T20 and that is what irks most people here on DCUM.

No, we just find the diversity numbers to be disturbing. ND could do something about that if it chose to. It chooses not to divert funds to recruiting black students.

Or if it wants to focus on Catholic students why doesn't it have more Latino students. It is weird to me that a school that emphasizes it's Catholic identity so much would have so few Latino students. Like ignore diversity for a second -- ND doesn't do a good job of merely representing the *Catholic* community. It's weird.

Catholic Latina mom here. My high stats (fcps grad) kid did not even apply to ND. Our main reason was tuition. We probably would not have qualified for much aid either.

Second reason, although my kids went to k-8 parrochial school, many Latin American Catholics are not super conservative in the religious sense. Most are culturally Catholic, so ND being very focused on their religious identity, was not a draw for my DD.

Third reason: Distance. Most college students in Latin America live at home and commute. Living on campus is not the norm still for US Hispanics. So when comparing percentages of Hispanic students in the US to those enrolled in universities, our numbers will always be lower at “isolated” campuses. In all fairness, my DD lives on campus at an in-state school.

Fourth: North Bend is freaking cold for “my people”. I mean, the word “North” is in the name of the town! Many kids are trying to attend schools in warmer regions anyway.

Thanks for the insight. Seems spot on. But it’s “South Bend.” Not that it makes it any warmer.

Oops! Thanks for the correction.

Also forgot to add…current low Hispanic numbers at ND will continue to make the school less attractive to future applicants. That good old self fulfilling prophecy.

I have never visited the campus, but from what I see in the football stands, the crowd does look very Caucasian, but let’s not forget, many Hispanics do look Caucasian. I’m thinking the few Hispanics that do apply, probably fit the Caucasian look. Those are the ones that are more likely able to afford the tuition. This due to the history of racism and colonialism in Latin America.

Hey, now you are sounding bitter. Are you sure your kid didn't just get outright rejected?

Not bitter at all. My kid did not apply to ND. We fit the “white presenting” Hispanic stereotype, but I am also aware of the history of Latin America.

I forgot to mention that most US Hispanics have mixed indigenous / African / European backgrounds, and probably have not seen many students at ND that look like them if they toured the campus. They would rather attend a school where they felt more students like them.

By the way, my DD is at UVA and enjoying minute of it.

Right, cause that's all you could afford. Nothing wrong with that! My kid also got into UVA but chose ND. Money is no object for us.

I’m not pp. You are an insufferable snob. How would you know what she could afford??? By the way, my very high stats kid is at UVA (Echols) not because it’s all we can afford, rather our kid’s choice. We are full pay and money is no object for us too. Big deal.

Bravo PP. They are insufferable, especially as Notre Dame is $85k a year. Not a good look!

Both are insufferable. Congrats, full pay at second tier schools.

UVA is and has always been a public ivy!

Wahoowa!

UVA is way too big to be a public ivy. It may be called that by some, but it is nothing at all like an ivy. Mine was so turned off by the tour, to much chaos on the weekend, almost all freshman and sophomore classes above 200, many more are 500-800. No way. DC only applied to ivies and similar sized privates, and William and Mary. The quintessential "public ivy" is William and Mary. It is very similar in vibe to ivies, just mildly less selective: it has the quirky intellectuals and the social types, no huge sports/tailgate vibes, smaller parties yet still fun, and hundreds of clubs for a relatively small undergrad population--just like ivies. Sadly USNWR does not include seminar style classes and fac-student ratios as part of their analysis, so WM fell again. Based on overall quality it is a T30.

OMG. I was nodding along with your assessment of UVA not being a "public Ivy" - who even uses that term anymore? But then you started bleating the usual nonsense about W&M being a "public Ivy." NO. Just no. W&M is not similar to an Ivy in any way. Please stop trying to make fetch happen. "Mildly less selective"?
DP

Below are the standardized scores shown in 75/50/25 percentiles for Cornell, UVA, and W&M enrolled students. Yes, Cornell is a bit higher but these objectively are relatively small distinctions. I also note that Cornell's scores are from a smaller percentage of students submitting scores than UVA or W&M.

Cornell: SAT: 99/98/97; ACT: 99/99/98
UVA: SAT: 98/96/94; ACT: 99/98/97
W&M: 98/96/91; ACT: 99/98/97

Cornell has a 7.5% acceptance rate. That you're trying to equate these other two schools to Cornell is really something.

You are just trying to deflect from from straight forward data that shows the differences between enrolled students in objective, standardized measurements is relatively small.

The single-digit acceptance rate tells you that they are far, FAR more selective than a UVA or W&M.

If you are using that as your sole criteria, Northeastern is more selective than Cornell.

Sure - when we all know they send their less-accomplished students to satellite campuses for freshman year so they won’t have to include their stats in reporting. Great way to game the system!

Just like Emory!!!!

Emory Oxford actually has higher test scores. 1510, and 34 ACT vs 1510 and 33 ACT
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=emory&s=all&id=139658

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Anonymous wrote:Stats for Emory-Oxford ‘28.
https://apply.emory.edu/discover/facts-stats/first-year.html

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Anonymous wrote:Another year with ND in the top 20. Another year the haters will say it won't last. Always get a chuckle out of this.

Notre Dame is 3.59% black. Shameful

A Catholic school in Indiana isn’t a huge draw for POC? Shocking!!

ahem. Using the same argument, there should be only 18% Catholics at ND because Indiana is only 18% Catholic.

No, when doing this analysis the experts compare to the national percentage of blacks, which is 14%. Hence, Harvard's black population is 14%. So it is at the other top schools. How do they achieve this? By offering generous merit and financial aid packages. Clearly, ND isn't vested in increasing diversity for the sake of its own student body by trying to increase the number if black students, Catholic or not.

4% of US Catholics are black. This lines up with the percent of blacks at Notre Dame. Notre Dame is a religious school and has different institutional priorities than secular universities.

Agree. ND is well known for its religious priorities and the students it attracts. Why anyone would expect different percentages of ND is ludicrous. Move on folks.

+100

I am the one who posted that haters complain each year saying ND doesn't belong in T20. The fact of the matter is that ND will continue to focus it's priorities on its Catholic identity. This means there will be less appeal to the general non-Catholic public and limits its ability to attract people of more diversity. Despite ND's dedication to its strong Catholic identity, it manages to say on top of the rankings, likely because it makes up for this limitation with other very strong characteristics, like it's great academics, beautiful campus, strong athletics, and welcoming community. People here saying that other Catholic institutions manage to have more diversity, keep in mind that those schools are not as blatant about its religious affiliation. Specifically, ND has chapels in all of it's residence halls, a very active basilica on campus, Touchdown Jesus, the grotto, and many of the main student events have an element of religion sprinkled in. This might make some students uncomfortable -- hence the attraction is just not there. Still, it remains a T20 and that is what irks most people here on DCUM.

No, we just find the diversity numbers to be disturbing. ND could do something about that if it chose to. It chooses not to divert funds to recruiting black students.

Or if it wants to focus on Catholic students why doesn't it have more Latino students. It is weird to me that a school that emphasizes it's Catholic identity so much would have so few Latino students. Like ignore diversity for a second -- ND doesn't do a good job of merely representing the *Catholic* community. It's weird.

Catholic Latina mom here. My high stats (fcps grad) kid did not even apply to ND. Our main reason was tuition. We probably would not have qualified for much aid either.

Second reason, although my kids went to k-8 parrochial school, many Latin American Catholics are not super conservative in the religious sense. Most are culturally Catholic, so ND being very focused on their religious identity, was not a draw for my DD.

Third reason: Distance. Most college students in Latin America live at home and commute. Living on campus is not the norm still for US Hispanics. So when comparing percentages of Hispanic students in the US to those enrolled in universities, our numbers will always be lower at “isolated” campuses. In all fairness, my DD lives on campus at an in-state school.

Fourth: North Bend is freaking cold for “my people”. I mean, the word “North” is in the name of the town! Many kids are trying to attend schools in warmer regions anyway.

Thanks for the insight. Seems spot on. But it’s “South Bend.” Not that it makes it any warmer.

Oops! Thanks for the correction.

Also forgot to add…current low Hispanic numbers at ND will continue to make the school less attractive to future applicants. That good old self fulfilling prophecy.

I have never visited the campus, but from what I see in the football stands, the crowd does look very Caucasian, but let’s not forget, many Hispanics do look Caucasian. I’m thinking the few Hispanics that do apply, probably fit the Caucasian look. Those are the ones that are more likely able to afford the tuition. This due to the history of racism and colonialism in Latin America.

Hey, now you are sounding bitter. Are you sure your kid didn't just get outright rejected?

Not bitter at all. My kid did not apply to ND. We fit the “white presenting” Hispanic stereotype, but I am also aware of the history of Latin America.

I forgot to mention that most US Hispanics have mixed indigenous / African / European backgrounds, and probably have not seen many students at ND that look like them if they toured the campus. They would rather attend a school where they felt more students like them.

By the way, my DD is at UVA and enjoying minute of it.

Right, cause that's all you could afford. Nothing wrong with that! My kid also got into UVA but chose ND. Money is no object for us.

I’m not pp. You are an insufferable snob. How would you know what she could afford??? By the way, my very high stats kid is at UVA (Echols) not because it’s all we can afford, rather our kid’s choice. We are full pay and money is no object for us too. Big deal.

Bravo PP. They are insufferable, especially as Notre Dame is $85k a year. Not a good look!

Both are insufferable. Congrats, full pay at second tier schools.

UVA is and has always been a public ivy!

Wahoowa!

UVA is way too big to be a public ivy. It may be called that by some, but it is nothing at all like an ivy. Mine was so turned off by the tour, to much chaos on the weekend, almost all freshman and sophomore classes above 200, many more are 500-800. No way. DC only applied to ivies and similar sized privates, and William and Mary. The quintessential "public ivy" is William and Mary. It is very similar in vibe to ivies, just mildly less selective: it has the quirky intellectuals and the social types, no huge sports/tailgate vibes, smaller parties yet still fun, and hundreds of clubs for a relatively small undergrad population--just like ivies. Sadly USNWR does not include seminar style classes and fac-student ratios as part of their analysis, so WM fell again. Based on overall quality it is a T30.

OMG. I was nodding along with your assessment of UVA not being a "public Ivy" - who even uses that term anymore? But then you started bleating the usual nonsense about W&M being a "public Ivy." NO. Just no. W&M is not similar to an Ivy in any way. Please stop trying to make fetch happen. "Mildly less selective"?
DP

Below are the standardized scores shown in 75/50/25 percentiles for Cornell, UVA, and W&M enrolled students. Yes, Cornell is a bit higher but these objectively are relatively small distinctions. I also note that Cornell's scores are from a smaller percentage of students submitting scores than UVA or W&M.

Cornell: SAT: 99/98/97; ACT: 99/99/98
UVA: SAT: 98/96/94; ACT: 99/98/97
W&M: 98/96/91; ACT: 99/98/97

Cornell has a 7.5% acceptance rate. That you're trying to equate these other two schools to Cornell is really something.

You are just trying to deflect from from straight forward data that shows the differences between enrolled students in objective, standardized measurements is relatively small.

The single-digit acceptance rate tells you that they are far, FAR more selective than a UVA or W&M.

If you are using that as your sole criteria, Northeastern is more selective than Cornell.

Sure - when we all know they send their less-accomplished students to satellite campuses for freshman year so they won’t have to include their stats in reporting. Great way to game the system!

Just like Emory!!!!

It's really hilarious that Emory doesn't just game. It was the biggest cheater school of all time together with UCBerkeley and Columbia in the history of US colleges. There has been a bunch of schools got caught flat out cheating, yet, they still talk about Northeastern, the school that played by the rules fair and square, and actually improved the most for the past 30 years or so.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/caught-cheating-colleges-falsify-admissions-data-higher-rankings-flna1c8964083

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/08/20/emory-misreported-admissions-data-more-decade

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/uc-berkeley-booted-from-u-s-news-best-college-list-misreporting/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/columbia-scandal-ranking-us-news-michael-thaddeus-b2179691.html

Holy cow!!

That is the snapshot of admitted students, not enrolled. But still...it can't be correct???!!! According to the graphic 907 freshmen enrolled ED, BUT there were only 1453 freshmen in total!! So Emory enrolls 62% of its class early decision for the Oxford campus? That seems extreme.

Too bad Emory doesn't break down the statistics of the actually enrolled freshmen, not the admitted students. I guess they have something to hide????

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Anonymous wrote:Another year with ND in the top 20. Another year the haters will say it won't last. Always get a chuckle out of this.

Notre Dame is 3.59% black. Shameful

A Catholic school in Indiana isn’t a huge draw for POC? Shocking!!

ahem. Using the same argument, there should be only 18% Catholics at ND because Indiana is only 18% Catholic.

No, when doing this analysis the experts compare to the national percentage of blacks, which is 14%. Hence, Harvard's black population is 14%. So it is at the other top schools. How do they achieve this? By offering generous merit and financial aid packages. Clearly, ND isn't vested in increasing diversity for the sake of its own student body by trying to increase the number if black students, Catholic or not.

4% of US Catholics are black. This lines up with the percent of blacks at Notre Dame. Notre Dame is a religious school and has different institutional priorities than secular universities.

Agree. ND is well known for its religious priorities and the students it attracts. Why anyone would expect different percentages of ND is ludicrous. Move on folks.

+100

I am the one who posted that haters complain each year saying ND doesn't belong in T20. The fact of the matter is that ND will continue to focus it's priorities on its Catholic identity. This means there will be less appeal to the general non-Catholic public and limits its ability to attract people of more diversity. Despite ND's dedication to its strong Catholic identity, it manages to say on top of the rankings, likely because it makes up for this limitation with other very strong characteristics, like it's great academics, beautiful campus, strong athletics, and welcoming community. People here saying that other Catholic institutions manage to have more diversity, keep in mind that those schools are not as blatant about its religious affiliation. Specifically, ND has chapels in all of it's residence halls, a very active basilica on campus, Touchdown Jesus, the grotto, and many of the main student events have an element of religion sprinkled in. This might make some students uncomfortable -- hence the attraction is just not there. Still, it remains a T20 and that is what irks most people here on DCUM.

No, we just find the diversity numbers to be disturbing. ND could do something about that if it chose to. It chooses not to divert funds to recruiting black students.

Or if it wants to focus on Catholic students why doesn't it have more Latino students. It is weird to me that a school that emphasizes it's Catholic identity so much would have so few Latino students. Like ignore diversity for a second -- ND doesn't do a good job of merely representing the *Catholic* community. It's weird.

Catholic Latina mom here. My high stats (fcps grad) kid did not even apply to ND. Our main reason was tuition. We probably would not have qualified for much aid either.

Second reason, although my kids went to k-8 parrochial school, many Latin American Catholics are not super conservative in the religious sense. Most are culturally Catholic, so ND being very focused on their religious identity, was not a draw for my DD.

Third reason: Distance. Most college students in Latin America live at home and commute. Living on campus is not the norm still for US Hispanics. So when comparing percentages of Hispanic students in the US to those enrolled in universities, our numbers will always be lower at “isolated” campuses. In all fairness, my DD lives on campus at an in-state school.

Fourth: North Bend is freaking cold for “my people”. I mean, the word “North” is in the name of the town! Many kids are trying to attend schools in warmer regions anyway.

Thanks for the insight. Seems spot on. But it’s “South Bend.” Not that it makes it any warmer.

Oops! Thanks for the correction.

Also forgot to add…current low Hispanic numbers at ND will continue to make the school less attractive to future applicants. That good old self fulfilling prophecy.

I have never visited the campus, but from what I see in the football stands, the crowd does look very Caucasian, but let’s not forget, many Hispanics do look Caucasian. I’m thinking the few Hispanics that do apply, probably fit the Caucasian look. Those are the ones that are more likely able to afford the tuition. This due to the history of racism and colonialism in Latin America.

Hey, now you are sounding bitter. Are you sure your kid didn't just get outright rejected?

Not bitter at all. My kid did not apply to ND. We fit the “white presenting” Hispanic stereotype, but I am also aware of the history of Latin America.

I forgot to mention that most US Hispanics have mixed indigenous / African / European backgrounds, and probably have not seen many students at ND that look like them if they toured the campus. They would rather attend a school where they felt more students like them.

By the way, my DD is at UVA and enjoying minute of it.

Right, cause that's all you could afford. Nothing wrong with that! My kid also got into UVA but chose ND. Money is no object for us.

I’m not pp. You are an insufferable snob. How would you know what she could afford??? By the way, my very high stats kid is at UVA (Echols) not because it’s all we can afford, rather our kid’s choice. We are full pay and money is no object for us too. Big deal.

Bravo PP. They are insufferable, especially as Notre Dame is $85k a year. Not a good look!

Both are insufferable. Congrats, full pay at second tier schools.

UVA is and has always been a public ivy!

Wahoowa!

UVA is way too big to be a public ivy. It may be called that by some, but it is nothing at all like an ivy. Mine was so turned off by the tour, to much chaos on the weekend, almost all freshman and sophomore classes above 200, many more are 500-800. No way. DC only applied to ivies and similar sized privates, and William and Mary. The quintessential "public ivy" is William and Mary. It is very similar in vibe to ivies, just mildly less selective: it has the quirky intellectuals and the social types, no huge sports/tailgate vibes, smaller parties yet still fun, and hundreds of clubs for a relatively small undergrad population--just like ivies. Sadly USNWR does not include seminar style classes and fac-student ratios as part of their analysis, so WM fell again. Based on overall quality it is a T30.

OMG. I was nodding along with your assessment of UVA not being a "public Ivy" - who even uses that term anymore? But then you started bleating the usual nonsense about W&M being a "public Ivy." NO. Just no. W&M is not similar to an Ivy in any way. Please stop trying to make fetch happen. "Mildly less selective"?
DP

Below are the standardized scores shown in 75/50/25 percentiles for Cornell, UVA, and W&M enrolled students. Yes, Cornell is a bit higher but these objectively are relatively small distinctions. I also note that Cornell's scores are from a smaller percentage of students submitting scores than UVA or W&M.

Cornell: SAT: 99/98/97; ACT: 99/99/98
UVA: SAT: 98/96/94; ACT: 99/98/97
W&M: 98/96/91; ACT: 99/98/97

Cornell has a 7.5% acceptance rate. That you're trying to equate these other two schools to Cornell is really something.

You are just trying to deflect from from straight forward data that shows the differences between enrolled students in objective, standardized measurements is relatively small.

The single-digit acceptance rate tells you that they are far, FAR more selective than a UVA or W&M.

If you are using that as your sole criteria, Northeastern is more selective than Cornell.

Sure - when we all know they send their less-accomplished students to satellite campuses for freshman year so they won’t have to include their stats in reporting. Great way to game the system!

Just like Emory!!!!

Anonymous wrote:HYPSM 1-5 (no brainer reality)

Cal Tech, Duke, John Hopkins, Northwestern 6 (Feel as if USNWR makes up sh*t to get more traffic. Clearly only Cal Tech is worthy of 6. The others over ranked)

UPenn 10 (should be 7 or 8. 10 is an insult)

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Anonymous wrote:Another year with ND in the top 20. Another year the haters will say it won't last. Always get a chuckle out of this.

Notre Dame is 3.59% black. Shameful

A Catholic school in Indiana isn’t a huge draw for POC? Shocking!!

ahem. Using the same argument, there should be only 18% Catholics at ND because Indiana is only 18% Catholic.

No, when doing this analysis the experts compare to the national percentage of blacks, which is 14%. Hence, Harvard's black population is 14%. So it is at the other top schools. How do they achieve this? By offering generous merit and financial aid packages. Clearly, ND isn't vested in increasing diversity for the sake of its own student body by trying to increase the number if black students, Catholic or not.

4% of US Catholics are black. This lines up with the percent of blacks at Notre Dame. Notre Dame is a religious school and has different institutional priorities than secular universities.

Agree. ND is well known for its religious priorities and the students it attracts. Why anyone would expect different percentages of ND is ludicrous. Move on folks.

+100

I am the one who posted that haters complain each year saying ND doesn't belong in T20. The fact of the matter is that ND will continue to focus it's priorities on its Catholic identity. This means there will be less appeal to the general non-Catholic public and limits its ability to attract people of more diversity. Despite ND's dedication to its strong Catholic identity, it manages to say on top of the rankings, likely because it makes up for this limitation with other very strong characteristics, like it's great academics, beautiful campus, strong athletics, and welcoming community. People here saying that other Catholic institutions manage to have more diversity, keep in mind that those schools are not as blatant about its religious affiliation. Specifically, ND has chapels in all of it's residence halls, a very active basilica on campus, Touchdown Jesus, the grotto, and many of the main student events have an element of religion sprinkled in. This might make some students uncomfortable -- hence the attraction is just not there. Still, it remains a T20 and that is what irks most people here on DCUM.

No, we just find the diversity numbers to be disturbing. ND could do something about that if it chose to. It chooses not to divert funds to recruiting black students.

Or if it wants to focus on Catholic students why doesn't it have more Latino students. It is weird to me that a school that emphasizes it's Catholic identity so much would have so few Latino students. Like ignore diversity for a second -- ND doesn't do a good job of merely representing the *Catholic* community. It's weird.

Catholic Latina mom here. My high stats (fcps grad) kid did not even apply to ND. Our main reason was tuition. We probably would not have qualified for much aid either.

Second reason, although my kids went to k-8 parrochial school, many Latin American Catholics are not super conservative in the religious sense. Most are culturally Catholic, so ND being very focused on their religious identity, was not a draw for my DD.

Third reason: Distance. Most college students in Latin America live at home and commute. Living on campus is not the norm still for US Hispanics. So when comparing percentages of Hispanic students in the US to those enrolled in universities, our numbers will always be lower at “isolated” campuses. In all fairness, my DD lives on campus at an in-state school.

Fourth: North Bend is freaking cold for “my people”. I mean, the word “North” is in the name of the town! Many kids are trying to attend schools in warmer regions anyway.

Thanks for the insight. Seems spot on. But it’s “South Bend.” Not that it makes it any warmer.

Oops! Thanks for the correction.

Also forgot to add…current low Hispanic numbers at ND will continue to make the school less attractive to future applicants. That good old self fulfilling prophecy.

I have never visited the campus, but from what I see in the football stands, the crowd does look very Caucasian, but let’s not forget, many Hispanics do look Caucasian. I’m thinking the few Hispanics that do apply, probably fit the Caucasian look. Those are the ones that are more likely able to afford the tuition. This due to the history of racism and colonialism in Latin America.

Hey, now you are sounding bitter. Are you sure your kid didn't just get outright rejected?

Not bitter at all. My kid did not apply to ND. We fit the “white presenting” Hispanic stereotype, but I am also aware of the history of Latin America.

I forgot to mention that most US Hispanics have mixed indigenous / African / European backgrounds, and probably have not seen many students at ND that look like them if they toured the campus. They would rather attend a school where they felt more students like them.

By the way, my DD is at UVA and enjoying minute of it.

Right, cause that's all you could afford. Nothing wrong with that! My kid also got into UVA but chose ND. Money is no object for us.

I’m not pp. You are an insufferable snob. How would you know what she could afford??? By the way, my very high stats kid is at UVA (Echols) not because it’s all we can afford, rather our kid’s choice. We are full pay and money is no object for us too. Big deal.

Bravo PP. They are insufferable, especially as Notre Dame is $85k a year. Not a good look!

Both are insufferable. Congrats, full pay at second tier schools.

UVA is and has always been a public ivy!

Wahoowa!

UVA is way too big to be a public ivy. It may be called that by some, but it is nothing at all like an ivy. Mine was so turned off by the tour, to much chaos on the weekend, almost all freshman and sophomore classes above 200, many more are 500-800. No way. DC only applied to ivies and similar sized privates, and William and Mary. The quintessential "public ivy" is William and Mary. It is very similar in vibe to ivies, just mildly less selective: it has the quirky intellectuals and the social types, no huge sports/tailgate vibes, smaller parties yet still fun, and hundreds of clubs for a relatively small undergrad population--just like ivies. Sadly USNWR does not include seminar style classes and fac-student ratios as part of their analysis, so WM fell again. Based on overall quality it is a T30.

OMG. I was nodding along with your assessment of UVA not being a "public Ivy" - who even uses that term anymore? But then you started bleating the usual nonsense about W&M being a "public Ivy." NO. Just no. W&M is not similar to an Ivy in any way. Please stop trying to make fetch happen. "Mildly less selective"?
DP

Below are the standardized scores shown in 75/50/25 percentiles for Cornell, UVA, and W&M enrolled students. Yes, Cornell is a bit higher but these objectively are relatively small distinctions. I also note that Cornell's scores are from a smaller percentage of students submitting scores than UVA or W&M.

Cornell: SAT: 99/98/97; ACT: 99/99/98
UVA: SAT: 98/96/94; ACT: 99/98/97
W&M: 98/96/91; ACT: 99/98/97

Cornell has a 7.5% acceptance rate. That you're trying to equate these other two schools to Cornell is really something.

You are just trying to deflect from from straight forward data that shows the differences between enrolled students in objective, standardized measurements is relatively small.

The single-digit acceptance rate tells you that they are far, FAR more selective than a UVA or W&M.

If you are using that as your sole criteria, Northeastern is more selective than Cornell.

Selectivity is a combination of acceptance rate, yield rate, and student stat.
Northeastern is more selective than UVA for sure.

Until tests scores are required from all, it makes no sense to publish them or use them in your stats to claim 'how great' the student body it.

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Anonymous wrote:Another year with ND in the top 20. Another year the haters will say it won't last. Always get a chuckle out of this.

Notre Dame is 3.59% black. Shameful

A Catholic school in Indiana isn’t a huge draw for POC? Shocking!!

ahem. Using the same argument, there should be only 18% Catholics at ND because Indiana is only 18% Catholic.

No, when doing this analysis the experts compare to the national percentage of blacks, which is 14%. Hence, Harvard's black population is 14%. So it is at the other top schools. How do they achieve this? By offering generous merit and financial aid packages. Clearly, ND isn't vested in increasing diversity for the sake of its own student body by trying to increase the number if black students, Catholic or not.

4% of US Catholics are black. This lines up with the percent of blacks at Notre Dame. Notre Dame is a religious school and has different institutional priorities than secular universities.

Agree. ND is well known for its religious priorities and the students it attracts. Why anyone would expect different percentages of ND is ludicrous. Move on folks.

+100

I am the one who posted that haters complain each year saying ND doesn't belong in T20. The fact of the matter is that ND will continue to focus it's priorities on its Catholic identity. This means there will be less appeal to the general non-Catholic public and limits its ability to attract people of more diversity. Despite ND's dedication to its strong Catholic identity, it manages to say on top of the rankings, likely because it makes up for this limitation with other very strong characteristics, like it's great academics, beautiful campus, strong athletics, and welcoming community. People here saying that other Catholic institutions manage to have more diversity, keep in mind that those schools are not as blatant about its religious affiliation. Specifically, ND has chapels in all of it's residence halls, a very active basilica on campus, Touchdown Jesus, the grotto, and many of the main student events have an element of religion sprinkled in. This might make some students uncomfortable -- hence the attraction is just not there. Still, it remains a T20 and that is what irks most people here on DCUM.

No, we just find the diversity numbers to be disturbing. ND could do something about that if it chose to. It chooses not to divert funds to recruiting black students.

Or if it wants to focus on Catholic students why doesn't it have more Latino students. It is weird to me that a school that emphasizes it's Catholic identity so much would have so few Latino students. Like ignore diversity for a second -- ND doesn't do a good job of merely representing the *Catholic* community. It's weird.

Catholic Latina mom here. My high stats (fcps grad) kid did not even apply to ND. Our main reason was tuition. We probably would not have qualified for much aid either.

Second reason, although my kids went to k-8 parrochial school, many Latin American Catholics are not super conservative in the religious sense. Most are culturally Catholic, so ND being very focused on their religious identity, was not a draw for my DD.

Third reason: Distance. Most college students in Latin America live at home and commute. Living on campus is not the norm still for US Hispanics. So when comparing percentages of Hispanic students in the US to those enrolled in universities, our numbers will always be lower at “isolated” campuses. In all fairness, my DD lives on campus at an in-state school.

Fourth: North Bend is freaking cold for “my people”. I mean, the word “North” is in the name of the town! Many kids are trying to attend schools in warmer regions anyway.

Thanks for the insight. Seems spot on. But it’s “South Bend.” Not that it makes it any warmer.

Oops! Thanks for the correction.

Also forgot to add…current low Hispanic numbers at ND will continue to make the school less attractive to future applicants. That good old self fulfilling prophecy.

I have never visited the campus, but from what I see in the football stands, the crowd does look very Caucasian, but let’s not forget, many Hispanics do look Caucasian. I’m thinking the few Hispanics that do apply, probably fit the Caucasian look. Those are the ones that are more likely able to afford the tuition. This due to the history of racism and colonialism in Latin America.

Hey, now you are sounding bitter. Are you sure your kid didn't just get outright rejected?

Not bitter at all. My kid did not apply to ND. We fit the “white presenting” Hispanic stereotype, but I am also aware of the history of Latin America.

I forgot to mention that most US Hispanics have mixed indigenous / African / European backgrounds, and probably have not seen many students at ND that look like them if they toured the campus. They would rather attend a school where they felt more students like them.

By the way, my DD is at UVA and enjoying minute of it.

Right, cause that's all you could afford. Nothing wrong with that! My kid also got into UVA but chose ND. Money is no object for us.

I’m not pp. You are an insufferable snob. How would you know what she could afford??? By the way, my very high stats kid is at UVA (Echols) not because it’s all we can afford, rather our kid’s choice. We are full pay and money is no object for us too. Big deal.

Bravo PP. They are insufferable, especially as Notre Dame is $85k a year. Not a good look!

Both are insufferable. Congrats, full pay at second tier schools.

UVA is and has always been a public ivy!

Wahoowa!

UVA is way too big to be a public ivy. It may be called that by some, but it is nothing at all like an ivy. Mine was so turned off by the tour, to much chaos on the weekend, almost all freshman and sophomore classes above 200, many more are 500-800. No way. DC only applied to ivies and similar sized privates, and William and Mary. The quintessential "public ivy" is William and Mary. It is very similar in vibe to ivies, just mildly less selective: it has the quirky intellectuals and the social types, no huge sports/tailgate vibes, smaller parties yet still fun, and hundreds of clubs for a relatively small undergrad population--just like ivies. Sadly USNWR does not include seminar style classes and fac-student ratios as part of their analysis, so WM fell again. Based on overall quality it is a T30.

OMG. I was nodding along with your assessment of UVA not being a "public Ivy" - who even uses that term anymore? But then you started bleating the usual nonsense about W&M being a "public Ivy." NO. Just no. W&M is not similar to an Ivy in any way. Please stop trying to make fetch happen. "Mildly less selective"?
DP

Below are the standardized scores shown in 75/50/25 percentiles for Cornell, UVA, and W&M enrolled students. Yes, Cornell is a bit higher but these objectively are relatively small distinctions. I also note that Cornell's scores are from a smaller percentage of students submitting scores than UVA or W&M.

Cornell: SAT: 99/98/97; ACT: 99/99/98
UVA: SAT: 98/96/94; ACT: 99/98/97
W&M: 98/96/91; ACT: 99/98/97

Cornell has a 7.5% acceptance rate. That you're trying to equate these other two schools to Cornell is really something.

You are just trying to deflect from from straight forward data that shows the differences between enrolled students in objective, standardized measurements is relatively small.

The single-digit acceptance rate tells you that they are far, FAR more selective than a UVA or W&M.

If you are using that as your sole criteria, Northeastern is more selective than Cornell.

Selectivity is a combination of acceptance rate, yield rate, and student stat.
Northeastern is more selective than UVA for sure.

Anonymous wrote:Univ of Miami at 63 and SMU at 91 too low!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stats for Emory-Oxford ‘28.
https://apply.emory.edu/discover/facts-stats/first-year.html

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Anonymous wrote:Another year with ND in the top 20. Another year the haters will say it won't last. Always get a chuckle out of this.

Notre Dame is 3.59% black. Shameful

A Catholic school in Indiana isn’t a huge draw for POC? Shocking!!

ahem. Using the same argument, there should be only 18% Catholics at ND because Indiana is only 18% Catholic.

No, when doing this analysis the experts compare to the national percentage of blacks, which is 14%. Hence, Harvard's black population is 14%. So it is at the other top schools. How do they achieve this? By offering generous merit and financial aid packages. Clearly, ND isn't vested in increasing diversity for the sake of its own student body by trying to increase the number if black students, Catholic or not.

4% of US Catholics are black. This lines up with the percent of blacks at Notre Dame. Notre Dame is a religious school and has different institutional priorities than secular universities.

Agree. ND is well known for its religious priorities and the students it attracts. Why anyone would expect different percentages of ND is ludicrous. Move on folks.

+100

I am the one who posted that haters complain each year saying ND doesn't belong in T20. The fact of the matter is that ND will continue to focus it's priorities on its Catholic identity. This means there will be less appeal to the general non-Catholic public and limits its ability to attract people of more diversity. Despite ND's dedication to its strong Catholic identity, it manages to say on top of the rankings, likely because it makes up for this limitation with other very strong characteristics, like it's great academics, beautiful campus, strong athletics, and welcoming community. People here saying that other Catholic institutions manage to have more diversity, keep in mind that those schools are not as blatant about its religious affiliation. Specifically, ND has chapels in all of it's residence halls, a very active basilica on campus, Touchdown Jesus, the grotto, and many of the main student events have an element of religion sprinkled in. This might make some students uncomfortable -- hence the attraction is just not there. Still, it remains a T20 and that is what irks most people here on DCUM.

No, we just find the diversity numbers to be disturbing. ND could do something about that if it chose to. It chooses not to divert funds to recruiting black students.

Or if it wants to focus on Catholic students why doesn't it have more Latino students. It is weird to me that a school that emphasizes it's Catholic identity so much would have so few Latino students. Like ignore diversity for a second -- ND doesn't do a good job of merely representing the *Catholic* community. It's weird.

Catholic Latina mom here. My high stats (fcps grad) kid did not even apply to ND. Our main reason was tuition. We probably would not have qualified for much aid either.

Second reason, although my kids went to k-8 parrochial school, many Latin American Catholics are not super conservative in the religious sense. Most are culturally Catholic, so ND being very focused on their religious identity, was not a draw for my DD.

Third reason: Distance. Most college students in Latin America live at home and commute. Living on campus is not the norm still for US Hispanics. So when comparing percentages of Hispanic students in the US to those enrolled in universities, our numbers will always be lower at “isolated” campuses. In all fairness, my DD lives on campus at an in-state school.

Fourth: North Bend is freaking cold for “my people”. I mean, the word “North” is in the name of the town! Many kids are trying to attend schools in warmer regions anyway.

Thanks for the insight. Seems spot on. But it’s “South Bend.” Not that it makes it any warmer.

Oops! Thanks for the correction.

Also forgot to add…current low Hispanic numbers at ND will continue to make the school less attractive to future applicants. That good old self fulfilling prophecy.

I have never visited the campus, but from what I see in the football stands, the crowd does look very Caucasian, but let’s not forget, many Hispanics do look Caucasian. I’m thinking the few Hispanics that do apply, probably fit the Caucasian look. Those are the ones that are more likely able to afford the tuition. This due to the history of racism and colonialism in Latin America.

Hey, now you are sounding bitter. Are you sure your kid didn't just get outright rejected?

Not bitter at all. My kid did not apply to ND. We fit the “white presenting” Hispanic stereotype, but I am also aware of the history of Latin America.

I forgot to mention that most US Hispanics have mixed indigenous / African / European backgrounds, and probably have not seen many students at ND that look like them if they toured the campus. They would rather attend a school where they felt more students like them.

By the way, my DD is at UVA and enjoying minute of it.

Right, cause that's all you could afford. Nothing wrong with that! My kid also got into UVA but chose ND. Money is no object for us.

I’m not pp. You are an insufferable snob. How would you know what she could afford??? By the way, my very high stats kid is at UVA (Echols) not because it’s all we can afford, rather our kid’s choice. We are full pay and money is no object for us too. Big deal.

Bravo PP. They are insufferable, especially as Notre Dame is $85k a year. Not a good look!

Both are insufferable. Congrats, full pay at second tier schools.

UVA is and has always been a public ivy!

Wahoowa!

UVA is way too big to be a public ivy. It may be called that by some, but it is nothing at all like an ivy. Mine was so turned off by the tour, to much chaos on the weekend, almost all freshman and sophomore classes above 200, many more are 500-800. No way. DC only applied to ivies and similar sized privates, and William and Mary. The quintessential "public ivy" is William and Mary. It is very similar in vibe to ivies, just mildly less selective: it has the quirky intellectuals and the social types, no huge sports/tailgate vibes, smaller parties yet still fun, and hundreds of clubs for a relatively small undergrad population--just like ivies. Sadly USNWR does not include seminar style classes and fac-student ratios as part of their analysis, so WM fell again. Based on overall quality it is a T30.

OMG. I was nodding along with your assessment of UVA not being a "public Ivy" - who even uses that term anymore? But then you started bleating the usual nonsense about W&M being a "public Ivy." NO. Just no. W&M is not similar to an Ivy in any way. Please stop trying to make fetch happen. "Mildly less selective"?
DP

Below are the standardized scores shown in 75/50/25 percentiles for Cornell, UVA, and W&M enrolled students. Yes, Cornell is a bit higher but these objectively are relatively small distinctions. I also note that Cornell's scores are from a smaller percentage of students submitting scores than UVA or W&M.

Cornell: SAT: 99/98/97; ACT: 99/99/98
UVA: SAT: 98/96/94; ACT: 99/98/97
W&M: 98/96/91; ACT: 99/98/97

Cornell has a 7.5% acceptance rate. That you're trying to equate these other two schools to Cornell is really something.

You are just trying to deflect from from straight forward data that shows the differences between enrolled students in objective, standardized measurements is relatively small.

The single-digit acceptance rate tells you that they are far, FAR more selective than a UVA or W&M.

If you are using that as your sole criteria, Northeastern is more selective than Cornell.

Sure - when we all know they send their less-accomplished students to satellite campuses for freshman year so they won’t have to include their stats in reporting. Great way to game the system!

Just like Emory!!!!

It's really hilarious that Emory doesn't just game. It was the biggest cheater school of all time together with UCBerkeley and Columbia in the history of US colleges. There has been a bunch of schools got caught flat out cheating, yet, they still talk about Northeastern, the school that played by the rules fair and square, and actually improved the most for the past 30 years or so.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/caught-cheating-colleges-falsify-admissions-data-higher-rankings-flna1c8964083

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/08/20/emory-misreported-admissions-data-more-decade

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/uc-berkeley-booted-from-u-s-news-best-college-list-misreporting/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/columbia-scandal-ranking-us-news-michael-thaddeus-b2179691.html

Holy cow!!

That is the snapshot of admitted students, not enrolled. But still...it can't be correct???!!! According to the graphic 907 freshmen enrolled ED, BUT there were only 1453 freshmen in total!! So Emory enrolls 62% of its class early decision for the Oxford campus? That seems extreme.

Too bad Emory doesn't break down the statistics of the actually enrolled freshmen, not the admitted students. I guess they have something to hide????

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Anonymous wrote:Another year with ND in the top 20. Another year the haters will say it won't last. Always get a chuckle out of this.

Notre Dame is 3.59% black. Shameful

A Catholic school in Indiana isn’t a huge draw for POC? Shocking!!

ahem. Using the same argument, there should be only 18% Catholics at ND because Indiana is only 18% Catholic.

No, when doing this analysis the experts compare to the national percentage of blacks, which is 14%. Hence, Harvard's black population is 14%. So it is at the other top schools. How do they achieve this? By offering generous merit and financial aid packages. Clearly, ND isn't vested in increasing diversity for the sake of its own student body by trying to increase the number if black students, Catholic or not.

4% of US Catholics are black. This lines up with the percent of blacks at Notre Dame. Notre Dame is a religious school and has different institutional priorities than secular universities.

Agree. ND is well known for its religious priorities and the students it attracts. Why anyone would expect different percentages of ND is ludicrous. Move on folks.

+100

I am the one who posted that haters complain each year saying ND doesn't belong in T20. The fact of the matter is that ND will continue to focus it's priorities on its Catholic identity. This means there will be less appeal to the general non-Catholic public and limits its ability to attract people of more diversity. Despite ND's dedication to its strong Catholic identity, it manages to say on top of the rankings, likely because it makes up for this limitation with other very strong characteristics, like it's great academics, beautiful campus, strong athletics, and welcoming community. People here saying that other Catholic institutions manage to have more diversity, keep in mind that those schools are not as blatant about its religious affiliation. Specifically, ND has chapels in all of it's residence halls, a very active basilica on campus, Touchdown Jesus, the grotto, and many of the main student events have an element of religion sprinkled in. This might make some students uncomfortable -- hence the attraction is just not there. Still, it remains a T20 and that is what irks most people here on DCUM.

No, we just find the diversity numbers to be disturbing. ND could do something about that if it chose to. It chooses not to divert funds to recruiting black students.

Or if it wants to focus on Catholic students why doesn't it have more Latino students. It is weird to me that a school that emphasizes it's Catholic identity so much would have so few Latino students. Like ignore diversity for a second -- ND doesn't do a good job of merely representing the *Catholic* community. It's weird.

Catholic Latina mom here. My high stats (fcps grad) kid did not even apply to ND. Our main reason was tuition. We probably would not have qualified for much aid either.

Second reason, although my kids went to k-8 parrochial school, many Latin American Catholics are not super conservative in the religious sense. Most are culturally Catholic, so ND being very focused on their religious identity, was not a draw for my DD.

Third reason: Distance. Most college students in Latin America live at home and commute. Living on campus is not the norm still for US Hispanics. So when comparing percentages of Hispanic students in the US to those enrolled in universities, our numbers will always be lower at “isolated” campuses. In all fairness, my DD lives on campus at an in-state school.

Fourth: North Bend is freaking cold for “my people”. I mean, the word “North” is in the name of the town! Many kids are trying to attend schools in warmer regions anyway.

Thanks for the insight. Seems spot on. But it’s “South Bend.” Not that it makes it any warmer.

Oops! Thanks for the correction.

Also forgot to add…current low Hispanic numbers at ND will continue to make the school less attractive to future applicants. That good old self fulfilling prophecy.

I have never visited the campus, but from what I see in the football stands, the crowd does look very Caucasian, but let’s not forget, many Hispanics do look Caucasian. I’m thinking the few Hispanics that do apply, probably fit the Caucasian look. Those are the ones that are more likely able to afford the tuition. This due to the history of racism and colonialism in Latin America.

Hey, now you are sounding bitter. Are you sure your kid didn't just get outright rejected?

Not bitter at all. My kid did not apply to ND. We fit the “white presenting” Hispanic stereotype, but I am also aware of the history of Latin America.

I forgot to mention that most US Hispanics have mixed indigenous / African / European backgrounds, and probably have not seen many students at ND that look like them if they toured the campus. They would rather attend a school where they felt more students like them.

By the way, my DD is at UVA and enjoying minute of it.

Right, cause that's all you could afford. Nothing wrong with that! My kid also got into UVA but chose ND. Money is no object for us.

I’m not pp. You are an insufferable snob. How would you know what she could afford??? By the way, my very high stats kid is at UVA (Echols) not because it’s all we can afford, rather our kid’s choice. We are full pay and money is no object for us too. Big deal.

Bravo PP. They are insufferable, especially as Notre Dame is $85k a year. Not a good look!

Both are insufferable. Congrats, full pay at second tier schools.

UVA is and has always been a public ivy!

Wahoowa!

UVA is way too big to be a public ivy. It may be called that by some, but it is nothing at all like an ivy. Mine was so turned off by the tour, to much chaos on the weekend, almost all freshman and sophomore classes above 200, many more are 500-800. No way. DC only applied to ivies and similar sized privates, and William and Mary. The quintessential "public ivy" is William and Mary. It is very similar in vibe to ivies, just mildly less selective: it has the quirky intellectuals and the social types, no huge sports/tailgate vibes, smaller parties yet still fun, and hundreds of clubs for a relatively small undergrad population--just like ivies. Sadly USNWR does not include seminar style classes and fac-student ratios as part of their analysis, so WM fell again. Based on overall quality it is a T30.

OMG. I was nodding along with your assessment of UVA not being a "public Ivy" - who even uses that term anymore? But then you started bleating the usual nonsense about W&M being a "public Ivy." NO. Just no. W&M is not similar to an Ivy in any way. Please stop trying to make fetch happen. "Mildly less selective"?
DP

Below are the standardized scores shown in 75/50/25 percentiles for Cornell, UVA, and W&M enrolled students. Yes, Cornell is a bit higher but these objectively are relatively small distinctions. I also note that Cornell's scores are from a smaller percentage of students submitting scores than UVA or W&M.

Cornell: SAT: 99/98/97; ACT: 99/99/98
UVA: SAT: 98/96/94; ACT: 99/98/97
W&M: 98/96/91; ACT: 99/98/97

Cornell has a 7.5% acceptance rate. That you're trying to equate these other two schools to Cornell is really something.

You are just trying to deflect from from straight forward data that shows the differences between enrolled students in objective, standardized measurements is relatively small.

The single-digit acceptance rate tells you that they are far, FAR more selective than a UVA or W&M.

If you are using that as your sole criteria, Northeastern is more selective than Cornell.

Sure - when we all know they send their less-accomplished students to satellite campuses for freshman year so they won’t have to include their stats in reporting. Great way to game the system!

Just like Emory!!!!

It's really hilarious that Emory doesn't just game. It was the biggest cheater school of all time together with UCBerkeley and Columbia in the history of US colleges. There has been a bunch of schools got caught flat out cheating, yet, they still talk about Northeastern, the school that played by the rules fair and square, and actually improved the most for the past 30 years or so.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/caught-cheating-colleges-falsify-admissions-data-higher-rankings-flna1c8964083

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/08/20/emory-misreported-admissions-data-more-decade

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/uc-berkeley-booted-from-u-s-news-best-college-list-misreporting/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/columbia-scandal-ranking-us-news-michael-thaddeus-b2179691.html

Penn appeared to have knowingly provided USNWR incorrect student to faculty ratio data for many years.

http://www.thedp.com/article/2023/10/penn-faculty-student-ratio-data-higher-education

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stats for Emory-Oxford ‘28.
https://apply.emory.edu/discover/facts-stats/first-year.html

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Anonymous wrote:Another year with ND in the top 20. Another year the haters will say it won't last. Always get a chuckle out of this.

Notre Dame is 3.59% black. Shameful

A Catholic school in Indiana isn’t a huge draw for POC? Shocking!!

Even with the outsized early decision enrollment, Oxford's yield is pretty abysmal so you know that the stats (which Emory hides) of the Oxford freshmen is much, much lower than of the admitted pool.



ahem. Using the same argument, there should be only 18% Catholics at ND because Indiana is only 18% Catholic.

No, when doing this analysis the experts compare to the national percentage of blacks, which is 14%. Hence, Harvard's black population is 14%. So it is at the other top schools. How do they achieve this? By offering generous merit and financial aid packages. Clearly, ND isn't vested in increasing diversity for the sake of its own student body by trying to increase the number if black students, Catholic or not.

4% of US Catholics are black. This lines up with the percent of blacks at Notre Dame. Notre Dame is a religious school and has different institutional priorities than secular universities.

Agree. ND is well known for its religious priorities and the students it attracts. Why anyone would expect different percentages of ND is ludicrous. Move on folks.

+100

I am the one who posted that haters complain each year saying ND doesn't belong in T20. The fact of the matter is that ND will continue to focus it's priorities on its Catholic identity. This means there will be less appeal to the general non-Catholic public and limits its ability to attract people of more diversity. Despite ND's dedication to its strong Catholic identity, it manages to say on top of the rankings, likely because it makes up for this limitation with other very strong characteristics, like it's great academics, beautiful campus, strong athletics, and welcoming community. People here saying that other Catholic institutions manage to have more diversity, keep in mind that those schools are not as blatant about its religious affiliation. Specifically, ND has chapels in all of it's residence halls, a very active basilica on campus, Touchdown Jesus, the grotto, and many of the main student events have an element of religion sprinkled in. This might make some students uncomfortable -- hence the attraction is just not there. Still, it remains a T20 and that is what irks most people here on DCUM.

No, we just find the diversity numbers to be disturbing. ND could do something about that if it chose to. It chooses not to divert funds to recruiting black students.

Or if it wants to focus on Catholic students why doesn't it have more Latino students. It is weird to me that a school that emphasizes it's Catholic identity so much would have so few Latino students. Like ignore diversity for a second -- ND doesn't do a good job of merely representing the *Catholic* community. It's weird.

Catholic Latina mom here. My high stats (fcps grad) kid did not even apply to ND. Our main reason was tuition. We probably would not have qualified for much aid either.

Second reason, although my kids went to k-8 parrochial school, many Latin American Catholics are not super conservative in the religious sense. Most are culturally Catholic, so ND being very focused on their religious identity, was not a draw for my DD.

Third reason: Distance. Most college students in Latin America live at home and commute. Living on campus is not the norm still for US Hispanics. So when comparing percentages of Hispanic students in the US to those enrolled in universities, our numbers will always be lower at “isolated” campuses. In all fairness, my DD lives on campus at an in-state school.

Fourth: North Bend is freaking cold for “my people”. I mean, the word “North” is in the name of the town! Many kids are trying to attend schools in warmer regions anyway.

Thanks for the insight. Seems spot on. But it’s “South Bend.” Not that it makes it any warmer.

Oops! Thanks for the correction.

Also forgot to add…current low Hispanic numbers at ND will continue to make the school less attractive to future applicants. That good old self fulfilling prophecy.

I have never visited the campus, but from what I see in the football stands, the crowd does look very Caucasian, but let’s not forget, many Hispanics do look Caucasian. I’m thinking the few Hispanics that do apply, probably fit the Caucasian look. Those are the ones that are more likely able to afford the tuition. This due to the history of racism and colonialism in Latin America.

Hey, now you are sounding bitter. Are you sure your kid didn't just get outright rejected?

Not bitter at all. My kid did not apply to ND. We fit the “white presenting” Hispanic stereotype, but I am also aware of the history of Latin America.

I forgot to mention that most US Hispanics have mixed indigenous / African / European backgrounds, and probably have not seen many students at ND that look like them if they toured the campus. They would rather attend a school where they felt more students like them.

By the way, my DD is at UVA and enjoying minute of it.

Right, cause that's all you could afford. Nothing wrong with that! My kid also got into UVA but chose ND. Money is no object for us.

I’m not pp. You are an insufferable snob. How would you know what she could afford??? By the way, my very high stats kid is at UVA (Echols) not because it’s all we can afford, rather our kid’s choice. We are full pay and money is no object for us too. Big deal.

Bravo PP. They are insufferable, especially as Notre Dame is $85k a year. Not a good look!

Both are insufferable. Congrats, full pay at second tier schools.

UVA is and has always been a public ivy!

Wahoowa!

UVA is way too big to be a public ivy. It may be called that by some, but it is nothing at all like an ivy. Mine was so turned off by the tour, to much chaos on the weekend, almost all freshman and sophomore classes above 200, many more are 500-800. No way. DC only applied to ivies and similar sized privates, and William and Mary. The quintessential "public ivy" is William and Mary. It is very similar in vibe to ivies, just mildly less selective: it has the quirky intellectuals and the social types, no huge sports/tailgate vibes, smaller parties yet still fun, and hundreds of clubs for a relatively small undergrad population--just like ivies. Sadly USNWR does not include seminar style classes and fac-student ratios as part of their analysis, so WM fell again. Based on overall quality it is a T30.

OMG. I was nodding along with your assessment of UVA not being a "public Ivy" - who even uses that term anymore? But then you started bleating the usual nonsense about W&M being a "public Ivy." NO. Just no. W&M is not similar to an Ivy in any way. Please stop trying to make fetch happen. "Mildly less selective"?
DP

Below are the standardized scores shown in 75/50/25 percentiles for Cornell, UVA, and W&M enrolled students. Yes, Cornell is a bit higher but these objectively are relatively small distinctions. I also note that Cornell's scores are from a smaller percentage of students submitting scores than UVA or W&M.

Cornell: SAT: 99/98/97; ACT: 99/99/98
UVA: SAT: 98/96/94; ACT: 99/98/97
W&M: 98/96/91; ACT: 99/98/97

Cornell has a 7.5% acceptance rate. That you're trying to equate these other two schools to Cornell is really something.

You are just trying to deflect from from straight forward data that shows the differences between enrolled students in objective, standardized measurements is relatively small.

The single-digit acceptance rate tells you that they are far, FAR more selective than a UVA or W&M.

If you are using that as your sole criteria, Northeastern is more selective than Cornell.

Sure - when we all know they send their less-accomplished students to satellite campuses for freshman year so they won’t have to include their stats in reporting. Great way to game the system!

Just like Emory!!!!

It's really hilarious that Emory doesn't just game. It was the biggest cheater school of all time together with UCBerkeley and Columbia in the history of US colleges. There has been a bunch of schools got caught flat out cheating, yet, they still talk about Northeastern, the school that played by the rules fair and square, and actually improved the most for the past 30 years or so.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/caught-cheating-colleges-falsify-admissions-data-higher-rankings-flna1c8964083

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/08/20/emory-misreported-admissions-data-more-decade

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/uc-berkeley-booted-from-u-s-news-best-college-list-misreporting/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/columbia-scandal-ranking-us-news-michael-thaddeus-b2179691.html

Holy cow!!

That is the snapshot of admitted students, not enrolled. But still...it can't be correct???!!! According to the graphic 907 freshmen enrolled ED, BUT there were only 1453 freshmen in total!! So Emory enrolls 62% of its class early decision for the Oxford campus? That seems extreme.

Too bad Emory doesn't break down the statistics of the actually enrolled freshmen, not the admitted students. I guess they have something to hide????

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Anonymous wrote:Another year with ND in the top 20. Another year the haters will say it won't last. Always get a chuckle out of this.

Notre Dame is 3.59% black. Shameful

A Catholic school in Indiana isn’t a huge draw for POC? Shocking!!

ahem. Using the same argument, there should be only 18% Catholics at ND because Indiana is only 18% Catholic.

No, when doing this analysis the experts compare to the national percentage of blacks, which is 14%. Hence, Harvard's black population is 14%. So it is at the other top schools. How do they achieve this? By offering generous merit and financial aid packages. Clearly, ND isn't vested in increasing diversity for the sake of its own student body by trying to increase the number if black students, Catholic or not.

4% of US Catholics are black. This lines up with the percent of blacks at Notre Dame. Notre Dame is a religious school and has different institutional priorities than secular universities.

Agree. ND is well known for its religious priorities and the students it attracts. Why anyone would expect different percentages of ND is ludicrous. Move on folks.

+100

I am the one who posted that haters complain each year saying ND doesn't belong in T20. The fact of the matter is that ND will continue to focus it's priorities on its Catholic identity. This means there will be less appeal to the general non-Catholic public and limits its ability to attract people of more diversity. Despite ND's dedication to its strong Catholic identity, it manages to say on top of the rankings, likely because it makes up for this limitation with other very strong characteristics, like it's great academics, beautiful campus, strong athletics, and welcoming community. People here saying that other Catholic institutions manage to have more diversity, keep in mind that those schools are not as blatant about its religious affiliation. Specifically, ND has chapels in all of it's residence halls, a very active basilica on campus, Touchdown Jesus, the grotto, and many of the main student events have an element of religion sprinkled in. This might make some students uncomfortable -- hence the attraction is just not there. Still, it remains a T20 and that is what irks most people here on DCUM.

No, we just find the diversity numbers to be disturbing. ND could do something about that if it chose to. It chooses not to divert funds to recruiting black students.

Or if it wants to focus on Catholic students why doesn't it have more Latino students. It is weird to me that a school that emphasizes it's Catholic identity so much would have so few Latino students. Like ignore diversity for a second -- ND doesn't do a good job of merely representing the *Catholic* community. It's weird.

Catholic Latina mom here. My high stats (fcps grad) kid did not even apply to ND. Our main reason was tuition. We probably would not have qualified for much aid either.

Second reason, although my kids went to k-8 parrochial school, many Latin American Catholics are not super conservative in the religious sense. Most are culturally Catholic, so ND being very focused on their religious identity, was not a draw for my DD.

Third reason: Distance. Most college students in Latin America live at home and commute. Living on campus is not the norm still for US Hispanics. So when comparing percentages of Hispanic students in the US to those enrolled in universities, our numbers will always be lower at “isolated” campuses. In all fairness, my DD lives on campus at an in-state school.

Fourth: North Bend is freaking cold for “my people”. I mean, the word “North” is in the name of the town! Many kids are trying to attend schools in warmer regions anyway.

Thanks for the insight. Seems spot on. But it’s “South Bend.” Not that it makes it any warmer.

Oops! Thanks for the correction.

Also forgot to add…current low Hispanic numbers at ND will continue to make the school less attractive to future applicants. That good old self fulfilling prophecy.

I have never visited the campus, but from what I see in the football stands, the crowd does look very Caucasian, but let’s not forget, many Hispanics do look Caucasian. I’m thinking the few Hispanics that do apply, probably fit the Caucasian look. Those are the ones that are more likely able to afford the tuition. This due to the history of racism and colonialism in Latin America.

Hey, now you are sounding bitter. Are you sure your kid didn't just get outright rejected?

Not bitter at all. My kid did not apply to ND. We fit the “white presenting” Hispanic stereotype, but I am also aware of the history of Latin America.

I forgot to mention that most US Hispanics have mixed indigenous / African / European backgrounds, and probably have not seen many students at ND that look like them if they toured the campus. They would rather attend a school where they felt more students like them.

By the way, my DD is at UVA and enjoying minute of it.

Right, cause that's all you could afford. Nothing wrong with that! My kid also got into UVA but chose ND. Money is no object for us.

I’m not pp. You are an insufferable snob. How would you know what she could afford??? By the way, my very high stats kid is at UVA (Echols) not because it’s all we can afford, rather our kid’s choice. We are full pay and money is no object for us too. Big deal.

Bravo PP. They are insufferable, especially as Notre Dame is $85k a year. Not a good look!

Both are insufferable. Congrats, full pay at second tier schools.

UVA is and has always been a public ivy!

Wahoowa!

UVA is way too big to be a public ivy. It may be called that by some, but it is nothing at all like an ivy. Mine was so turned off by the tour, to much chaos on the weekend, almost all freshman and sophomore classes above 200, many more are 500-800. No way. DC only applied to ivies and similar sized privates, and William and Mary. The quintessential "public ivy" is William and Mary. It is very similar in vibe to ivies, just mildly less selective: it has the quirky intellectuals and the social types, no huge sports/tailgate vibes, smaller parties yet still fun, and hundreds of clubs for a relatively small undergrad population--just like ivies. Sadly USNWR does not include seminar style classes and fac-student ratios as part of their analysis, so WM fell again. Based on overall quality it is a T30.

OMG. I was nodding along with your assessment of UVA not being a "public Ivy" - who even uses that term anymore? But then you started bleating the usual nonsense about W&M being a "public Ivy." NO. Just no. W&M is not similar to an Ivy in any way. Please stop trying to make fetch happen. "Mildly less selective"?
DP

Below are the standardized scores shown in 75/50/25 percentiles for Cornell, UVA, and W&M enrolled students. Yes, Cornell is a bit higher but these objectively are relatively small distinctions. I also note that Cornell's scores are from a smaller percentage of students submitting scores than UVA or W&M.

Cornell: SAT: 99/98/97; ACT: 99/99/98
UVA: SAT: 98/96/94; ACT: 99/98/97
W&M: 98/96/91; ACT: 99/98/97

Cornell has a 7.5% acceptance rate. That you're trying to equate these other two schools to Cornell is really something.

You are just trying to deflect from from straight forward data that shows the differences between enrolled students in objective, standardized measurements is relatively small.

The single-digit acceptance rate tells you that they are far, FAR more selective than a UVA or W&M.

If you are using that as your sole criteria, Northeastern is more selective than Cornell.

Sure - when we all know they send their less-accomplished students to satellite campuses for freshman year so they won’t have to include their stats in reporting. Great way to game the system!

Just like Emory!!!!

It's really hilarious that Emory doesn't just game. It was the biggest cheater school of all time together with UCBerkeley and Columbia in the history of US colleges. There has been a bunch of schools got caught flat out cheating, yet, they still talk about Northeastern, the school that played by the rules fair and square, and actually improved the most for the past 30 years or so.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/caught-cheating-colleges-falsify-admissions-data-higher-rankings-flna1c8964083

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/08/20/emory-misreported-admissions-data-more-decade

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/uc-berkeley-booted-from-u-s-news-best-college-list-misreporting/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/columbia-scandal-ranking-us-news-michael-thaddeus-b2179691.html

Anonymous wrote:Stats for Emory-Oxford ‘28.
https://apply.emory.edu/discover/facts-stats/first-year.html

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Anonymous wrote:Another year with ND in the top 20. Another year the haters will say it won't last. Always get a chuckle out of this.

Notre Dame is 3.59% black. Shameful

A Catholic school in Indiana isn’t a huge draw for POC? Shocking!!

ahem. Using the same argument, there should be only 18% Catholics at ND because Indiana is only 18% Catholic.

No, when doing this analysis the experts compare to the national percentage of blacks, which is 14%. Hence, Harvard's black population is 14%. So it is at the other top schools. How do they achieve this? By offering generous merit and financial aid packages. Clearly, ND isn't vested in increasing diversity for the sake of its own student body by trying to increase the number if black students, Catholic or not.

4% of US Catholics are black. This lines up with the percent of blacks at Notre Dame. Notre Dame is a religious school and has different institutional priorities than secular universities.

Agree. ND is well known for its religious priorities and the students it attracts. Why anyone would expect different percentages of ND is ludicrous. Move on folks.

+100

I am the one who posted that haters complain each year saying ND doesn't belong in T20. The fact of the matter is that ND will continue to focus it's priorities on its Catholic identity. This means there will be less appeal to the general non-Catholic public and limits its ability to attract people of more diversity. Despite ND's dedication to its strong Catholic identity, it manages to say on top of the rankings, likely because it makes up for this limitation with other very strong characteristics, like it's great academics, beautiful campus, strong athletics, and welcoming community. People here saying that other Catholic institutions manage to have more diversity, keep in mind that those schools are not as blatant about its religious affiliation. Specifically, ND has chapels in all of it's residence halls, a very active basilica on campus, Touchdown Jesus, the grotto, and many of the main student events have an element of religion sprinkled in. This might make some students uncomfortable -- hence the attraction is just not there. Still, it remains a T20 and that is what irks most people here on DCUM.

No, we just find the diversity numbers to be disturbing. ND could do something about that if it chose to. It chooses not to divert funds to recruiting black students.

Or if it wants to focus on Catholic students why doesn't it have more Latino students. It is weird to me that a school that emphasizes it's Catholic identity so much would have so few Latino students. Like ignore diversity for a second -- ND doesn't do a good job of merely representing the *Catholic* community. It's weird.

Catholic Latina mom here. My high stats (fcps grad) kid did not even apply to ND. Our main reason was tuition. We probably would not have qualified for much aid either.

Second reason, although my kids went to k-8 parrochial school, many Latin American Catholics are not super conservative in the religious sense. Most are culturally Catholic, so ND being very focused on their religious identity, was not a draw for my DD.

Third reason: Distance. Most college students in Latin America live at home and commute. Living on campus is not the norm still for US Hispanics. So when comparing percentages of Hispanic students in the US to those enrolled in universities, our numbers will always be lower at “isolated” campuses. In all fairness, my DD lives on campus at an in-state school.

Fourth: North Bend is freaking cold for “my people”. I mean, the word “North” is in the name of the town! Many kids are trying to attend schools in warmer regions anyway.

Thanks for the insight. Seems spot on. But it’s “South Bend.” Not that it makes it any warmer.

Oops! Thanks for the correction.

Also forgot to add…current low Hispanic numbers at ND will continue to make the school less attractive to future applicants. That good old self fulfilling prophecy.

I have never visited the campus, but from what I see in the football stands, the crowd does look very Caucasian, but let’s not forget, many Hispanics do look Caucasian. I’m thinking the few Hispanics that do apply, probably fit the Caucasian look. Those are the ones that are more likely able to afford the tuition. This due to the history of racism and colonialism in Latin America.

Hey, now you are sounding bitter. Are you sure your kid didn't just get outright rejected?

Not bitter at all. My kid did not apply to ND. We fit the “white presenting” Hispanic stereotype, but I am also aware of the history of Latin America.

I forgot to mention that most US Hispanics have mixed indigenous / African / European backgrounds, and probably have not seen many students at ND that look like them if they toured the campus. They would rather attend a school where they felt more students like them.

By the way, my DD is at UVA and enjoying minute of it.

Right, cause that's all you could afford. Nothing wrong with that! My kid also got into UVA but chose ND. Money is no object for us.

I’m not pp. You are an insufferable snob. How would you know what she could afford??? By the way, my very high stats kid is at UVA (Echols) not because it’s all we can afford, rather our kid’s choice. We are full pay and money is no object for us too. Big deal.

Bravo PP. They are insufferable, especially as Notre Dame is $85k a year. Not a good look!

Both are insufferable. Congrats, full pay at second tier schools.

UVA is and has always been a public ivy!

Wahoowa!

UVA is way too big to be a public ivy. It may be called that by some, but it is nothing at all like an ivy. Mine was so turned off by the tour, to much chaos on the weekend, almost all freshman and sophomore classes above 200, many more are 500-800. No way. DC only applied to ivies and similar sized privates, and William and Mary. The quintessential "public ivy" is William and Mary. It is very similar in vibe to ivies, just mildly less selective: it has the quirky intellectuals and the social types, no huge sports/tailgate vibes, smaller parties yet still fun, and hundreds of clubs for a relatively small undergrad population--just like ivies. Sadly USNWR does not include seminar style classes and fac-student ratios as part of their analysis, so WM fell again. Based on overall quality it is a T30.

OMG. I was nodding along with your assessment of UVA not being a "public Ivy" - who even uses that term anymore? But then you started bleating the usual nonsense about W&M being a "public Ivy." NO. Just no. W&M is not similar to an Ivy in any way. Please stop trying to make fetch happen. "Mildly less selective"?
DP

Below are the standardized scores shown in 75/50/25 percentiles for Cornell, UVA, and W&M enrolled students. Yes, Cornell is a bit higher but these objectively are relatively small distinctions. I also note that Cornell's scores are from a smaller percentage of students submitting scores than UVA or W&M.

Cornell: SAT: 99/98/97; ACT: 99/99/98
UVA: SAT: 98/96/94; ACT: 99/98/97
W&M: 98/96/91; ACT: 99/98/97

Cornell has a 7.5% acceptance rate. That you're trying to equate these other two schools to Cornell is really something.

You are just trying to deflect from from straight forward data that shows the differences between enrolled students in objective, standardized measurements is relatively small.

The single-digit acceptance rate tells you that they are far, FAR more selective than a UVA or W&M.

If you are using that as your sole criteria, Northeastern is more selective than Cornell.

Sure - when we all know they send their less-accomplished students to satellite campuses for freshman year so they won’t have to include their stats in reporting. Great way to game the system!

Just like Emory!!!!

It's really hilarious that Emory doesn't just game. It was the biggest cheater school of all time together with UCBerkeley and Columbia in the history of US colleges. There has been a bunch of schools got caught flat out cheating, yet, they still talk about Northeastern, the school that played by the rules fair and square, and actually improved the most for the past 30 years or so.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/caught-cheating-colleges-falsify-admissions-data-higher-rankings-flna1c8964083

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/08/20/emory-misreported-admissions-data-more-decade

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/uc-berkeley-booted-from-u-s-news-best-college-list-misreporting/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/columbia-scandal-ranking-us-news-michael-thaddeus-b2179691.html

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Anonymous wrote:Another year with ND in the top 20. Another year the haters will say it won't last. Always get a chuckle out of this.

Notre Dame is 3.59% black. Shameful

A Catholic school in Indiana isn’t a huge draw for POC? Shocking!!

ahem. Using the same argument, there should be only 18% Catholics at ND because Indiana is only 18% Catholic.

No, when doing this analysis the experts compare to the national percentage of blacks, which is 14%. Hence, Harvard's black population is 14%. So it is at the other top schools. How do they achieve this? By offering generous merit and financial aid packages. Clearly, ND isn't vested in increasing diversity for the sake of its own student body by trying to increase the number if black students, Catholic or not.

4% of US Catholics are black. This lines up with the percent of blacks at Notre Dame. Notre Dame is a religious school and has different institutional priorities than secular universities.

Agree. ND is well known for its religious priorities and the students it attracts. Why anyone would expect different percentages of ND is ludicrous. Move on folks.

+100

I am the one who posted that haters complain each year saying ND doesn't belong in T20. The fact of the matter is that ND will continue to focus it's priorities on its Catholic identity. This means there will be less appeal to the general non-Catholic public and limits its ability to attract people of more diversity. Despite ND's dedication to its strong Catholic identity, it manages to say on top of the rankings, likely because it makes up for this limitation with other very strong characteristics, like it's great academics, beautiful campus, strong athletics, and welcoming community. People here saying that other Catholic institutions manage to have more diversity, keep in mind that those schools are not as blatant about its religious affiliation. Specifically, ND has chapels in all of it's residence halls, a very active basilica on campus, Touchdown Jesus, the grotto, and many of the main student events have an element of religion sprinkled in. This might make some students uncomfortable -- hence the attraction is just not there. Still, it remains a T20 and that is what irks most people here on DCUM.

No, we just find the diversity numbers to be disturbing. ND could do something about that if it chose to. It chooses not to divert funds to recruiting black students.

Or if it wants to focus on Catholic students why doesn't it have more Latino students. It is weird to me that a school that emphasizes it's Catholic identity so much would have so few Latino students. Like ignore diversity for a second -- ND doesn't do a good job of merely representing the *Catholic* community. It's weird.

Catholic Latina mom here. My high stats (fcps grad) kid did not even apply to ND. Our main reason was tuition. We probably would not have qualified for much aid either.

Second reason, although my kids went to k-8 parrochial school, many Latin American Catholics are not super conservative in the religious sense. Most are culturally Catholic, so ND being very focused on their religious identity, was not a draw for my DD.

Third reason: Distance. Most college students in Latin America live at home and commute. Living on campus is not the norm still for US Hispanics. So when comparing percentages of Hispanic students in the US to those enrolled in universities, our numbers will always be lower at “isolated” campuses. In all fairness, my DD lives on campus at an in-state school.

Fourth: North Bend is freaking cold for “my people”. I mean, the word “North” is in the name of the town! Many kids are trying to attend schools in warmer regions anyway.

Thanks for the insight. Seems spot on. But it’s “South Bend.” Not that it makes it any warmer.

Oops! Thanks for the correction.

Also forgot to add…current low Hispanic numbers at ND will continue to make the school less attractive to future applicants. That good old self fulfilling prophecy.

I have never visited the campus, but from what I see in the football stands, the crowd does look very Caucasian, but let’s not forget, many Hispanics do look Caucasian. I’m thinking the few Hispanics that do apply, probably fit the Caucasian look. Those are the ones that are more likely able to afford the tuition. This due to the history of racism and colonialism in Latin America.

Hey, now you are sounding bitter. Are you sure your kid didn't just get outright rejected?

Not bitter at all. My kid did not apply to ND. We fit the “white presenting” Hispanic stereotype, but I am also aware of the history of Latin America.

I forgot to mention that most US Hispanics have mixed indigenous / African / European backgrounds, and probably have not seen many students at ND that look like them if they toured the campus. They would rather attend a school where they felt more students like them.

By the way, my DD is at UVA and enjoying minute of it.

Right, cause that's all you could afford. Nothing wrong with that! My kid also got into UVA but chose ND. Money is no object for us.

I’m not pp. You are an insufferable snob. How would you know what she could afford??? By the way, my very high stats kid is at UVA (Echols) not because it’s all we can afford, rather our kid’s choice. We are full pay and money is no object for us too. Big deal.

Bravo PP. They are insufferable, especially as Notre Dame is $85k a year. Not a good look!

Both are insufferable. Congrats, full pay at second tier schools.

UVA is and has always been a public ivy!

Wahoowa!

UVA is way too big to be a public ivy. It may be called that by some, but it is nothing at all like an ivy. Mine was so turned off by the tour, to much chaos on the weekend, almost all freshman and sophomore classes above 200, many more are 500-800. No way. DC only applied to ivies and similar sized privates, and William and Mary. The quintessential "public ivy" is William and Mary. It is very similar in vibe to ivies, just mildly less selective: it has the quirky intellectuals and the social types, no huge sports/tailgate vibes, smaller parties yet still fun, and hundreds of clubs for a relatively small undergrad population--just like ivies. Sadly USNWR does not include seminar style classes and fac-student ratios as part of their analysis, so WM fell again. Based on overall quality it is a T30.

OMG. I was nodding along with your assessment of UVA not being a "public Ivy" - who even uses that term anymore? But then you started bleating the usual nonsense about W&M being a "public Ivy." NO. Just no. W&M is not similar to an Ivy in any way. Please stop trying to make fetch happen. "Mildly less selective"?
DP

Below are the standardized scores shown in 75/50/25 percentiles for Cornell, UVA, and W&M enrolled students. Yes, Cornell is a bit higher but these objectively are relatively small distinctions. I also note that Cornell's scores are from a smaller percentage of students submitting scores than UVA or W&M.

Cornell: SAT: 99/98/97; ACT: 99/99/98
UVA: SAT: 98/96/94; ACT: 99/98/97
W&M: 98/96/91; ACT: 99/98/97

Cornell has a 7.5% acceptance rate. That you're trying to equate these other two schools to Cornell is really something.

You are just trying to deflect from from straight forward data that shows the differences between enrolled students in objective, standardized measurements is relatively small.

The single-digit acceptance rate tells you that they are far, FAR more selective than a UVA or W&M.

If you are using that as your sole criteria, Northeastern is more selective than Cornell.

Sure - when we all know they send their less-accomplished students to satellite campuses for freshman year so they won’t have to include their stats in reporting. Great way to game the system!

Just like Emory!!!!

It's really hilarious that Emory doesn't just game. It was the biggest cheater school of all time together with UCBerkeley and Columbia in the history of US colleges. There has been a bunch of schools got caught flat out cheating, yet, they still talk about Northeastern, the school that played by the rules fair and square, and actually improved the most for the past 30 years or so.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/caught-cheating-colleges-falsify-admissions-data-higher-rankings-flna1c8964083

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/08/20/emory-misreported-admissions-data-more-decade

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/uc-berkeley-booted-from-u-s-news-best-college-list-misreporting/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/columbia-scandal-ranking-us-news-michael-thaddeus-b2179691.html