Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get why people find it so triggering to hear someone who feels busy say "I've been really busy." And the idea that you are not allowed to say this unless you have a certain number of kids or are a working mom -- the arrogance and ignorance of that attitude.

I have one kid but she has special needs that most people don't know about. I have a sibling with a substance abuse problem and a parent with physical and mental health problems. My MIL's health has started to fail as well. My DH hates his job but cannot quit for financial reasons and navigating that is exhausting. I work a flexible job so that I can be there for my DD who needs a lot of support, and what that means is that I sometimes spend much of the day taking care of her needs and then I work until 1 or 2 am in order to get my work done. That's what "flexibility" buys me -- the freedom to work when I should be sleeping because I have to parent when I should be working. We can't get by without my income.

So if I say "I'm busy" and someone thinks "omg this idiot thinks she's busy and she only has ONE child," they can kindly go **** themselves.

agree on the one hand, but on the other hand, this glorification of the busy is too much and dumb in itself.
Signed, sandwich generation woman with 4 kids and a full time job and ailing parents and in-laws -- just a fact, not a brag

Are you the expat mom or just too lazy to write like an adult?

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Anonymous wrote:I don't really think about it as a concept?

I know a few SAHMs who are the "I'm so busy I'm so busy listen to ALL THE THINGS I have to do!" type which is kind of in insufferable when it's a huge part of their personality. Not that I am judging, but it's an odd schtick and hard to be on the receiving end of because I never know how to respond. Am I supposed to share my work tasks? List my mom tasks? Tell them they are the #1 busiest? Steer the conversation to something else? When I used to SAH I did not do this, largely because I felt self-conscious.

I feel lucky to have a flexible yet fulfilling career that I am good at and recognized for, but it's not my whole personality and a career isn't necessary to be a whole person. People should be free to do what they want, but I do think it's healthy for their identities to expand beyond the boundaries of WOH or SAH.

I feel like this stems from insecurity, perhaps theyve been judged as lazy before and now make such a big fluff about how much they actually do.

I disagree because I know plenty of SAHM *and* WOHM moms that do this. I think some women bond over venting about the busyness of their lives, while recognizing that whether it’s their kids or their career, they wouldn’t change a thing. A SAHM going on and on about the chaos of travel soccer isn’t looking for you to feel bad for her, it’s more like an invitation for you to respond “ugh I totally get it! I am closing on two real estate deals tomorrow and the clients are being so difficult…let’s go grab a cocktail and forget about it all for an hour.”

+1. Yes! You get it. This is exactly it. And I complain about all of it - my kids, my work, my dogs. Whatever. It’s banter.

I'm a SAHM and I never complain about being busy (because I'm not), but lots of working parents tell me they know I must be crazy busy, and they talk about how busy they are too. I really do think it's just bonding.

If you are not busy, then your kids are small or don’t do any busy activities. I wasn’t busy either until my kids hit middle school. Now they are 13 and 16 and I honestly feel busier than when they were preschoolers.

Busier after they get home from school, you mean. They're gone the majority of the day...

Correct. But when they are home now, I am busier and more frazzled and tired than I was when I had them home with me full time. Back then, I controlled our schedule and we did everything leisurely. They were very content just to play in the house and yard and the occasional playground. We shopped together and I prepared meals leisurely and I just sort of lightly cleaned while they played. I rested while they napped and they went to bed early - 7/7:30pm and slept for 11-12 hours.

Now they leave on a staggered schedule (MS and HS) - I am making breakfast and packing lunches from 7am - 9am. Then they come home on a staggered schedule - 3:45 and 4:45. Both need healthy snacks and then most nights they are eating dinner at different times from each other due to activity schedules. My husband and I will eat with one or both of them depending on the night, plus they have to be dropped off and picked up in the middle of it all. I don't control when the practice/games/performances/competitions are nor do I have much say over the specific location. Then throw in homework, after practice snacks, showers, etc. and I'm not usually "off" until 10pm.

It is more hectic and harder now. I literally thought it was easier when they were 1 and 4.

Anonymous wrote:PP directly above here- and while I think about it, I never know what to say when people say, "oh you must be so busy" because I think they mean it as a complement, or mabe just an observation - real question: what is the socially graceful response that doesn't glorify business (e.g. oh yes, you must be busy too! seems akin to "but I Love YOUR shirt...")

You don't have to respond to every comment. Sometimes the best answer is no answer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get why people find it so triggering to hear someone who feels busy say "I've been really busy." And the idea that you are not allowed to say this unless you have a certain number of kids or are a working mom -- the arrogance and ignorance of that attitude.

I have one kid but she has special needs that most people don't know about. I have a sibling with a substance abuse problem and a parent with physical and mental health problems. My MIL's health has started to fail as well. My DH hates his job but cannot quit for financial reasons and navigating that is exhausting. I work a flexible job so that I can be there for my DD who needs a lot of support, and what that means is that I sometimes spend much of the day taking care of her needs and then I work until 1 or 2 am in order to get my work done. That's what "flexibility" buys me -- the freedom to work when I should be sleeping because I have to parent when I should be working. We can't get by without my income.

So if I say "I'm busy" and someone thinks "omg this idiot thinks she's busy and she only has ONE child," they can kindly go **** themselves.

I don't find it "triggering" (whatever that means to you), I just don't really see the need to discuss it. It seems like some moms on this thread like bonding over that type of talk; I personally do not. I think it is one of those things that can just remain unsaid as we are all busy with different things. I work full time and have three kids in various activities; however, I work from home so don't have to worry about commute time. I personally would not feel the need to have a conversation with a mom with one kid who commutes full time where we trade that she is busy because he is on the metro 45 minutes to work each day and I share that I am busy because my kids have different activities every day.

I also don't personally think that SAHMs are inherently less busy than me- they may not work full time but maybe they have different things going on. I just don't really need to hear about it (or, on the flip side, discuss it myself) unless it is something super unique such as helping a parent recover from surgery.

You are assuming that someone who says "I'm busy" is glorifying business. They might just feel really busy. When I tell people I'm busy, it's not a humblebrag. It is a way of saying "I'm overwhelmed" or "I have no time to myself" without being so vulnerable about it. Often it's a reference to a very busy time of year related to a work project or something going on at the school. It's just a descriptive of MY life and is not intended as a measuring stick against yours.

If you asked someone how they were and they said "I'm bored" or "I'm having an existential crisis," would you get annoyed that they were glorifying having free time or thinking about death?

Anonymous wrote:Do the people judging women have a problem with men who stay home?

Honestly, not as much, because it's less typical, which means to me that it's less likely they "just did it" because they were socially programmed to believe this was their role. They really thought about it and had to make a conscious move (in most cases, I know there are exceptions). I think I am more prone to thinking they are following their real passion.

I am realizing I also tend to think that the paid work men do tends to be more about "making a paycheck to support my family," which is fine and good, but tends to be more about producing widgets and being a cog in a machine versus actually contributing toward the world. There's some fact-based reason; women tend to be more in helping professions and non profit roles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish I could afford to stay home and be a mother and wife. Instead, I’m paying someone else to spend whole days with my child while I work at a career that is meaningless to me.

Being a mother is not “just” being a mother. People can love being a mother the same way another woman might love being a lawyer. Parents can prioritize being present for their kids over spending most of their time focused on furthering their career or just earning a paycheck.

But can't you do both? It' a false choice at times. Not always, but at times.

I heard someone use the term "full time mother' the other day -- I know what they meant, but are we not all full time mothers?

Look, I'm a working mom, and I get what you are saying -- I don't stop being mom when I work. But obviously someone who is at home taking care of kids all day has made mothering their "full time job" and I would not be offended by someone who described themselves that way. It doesn't mean I'm a "part-time mom." It's not a commentary on me at all -- I have a different situation and can describe my life as makes sense to me. But if a SAHM calls herself a full-time mom because she literally does the work of motherhood all day long, I have zero issue with that.

I was a SAHM for 18 months after my DD was born (sort of a forced long maternity leave due to a job change) and yes, that was a full time job. I did it all day. Especially once I got past those early days with the long naps and the baby who just eats/sleeps/poops, it is WORK chasing after a little kid all day, and people who do it with multiple kids are entitled to describe it as work. If they didn't do it, they'd have to pay someone else to do it. Full time.

I am truly and genuinely happy for anyone who has figured out how to be content in this life. Whether it is being "just a wife and mom" or being a wife, mom, and a CEO (etc.) that's fantastic that you have found something that makes you happy. I personally would not make that choice because I get a lot of fulfillment out of my career and have a lot of of flexibility to still spend time with my kids. But if I didn't, I could totally see staying home full time being rewarding too.

Anonymous wrote:I wish I could afford to stay home and be a mother and wife. Instead, I’m paying someone else to spend whole days with my child while I work at a career that is meaningless to me.

Being a mother is not “just” being a mother. People can love being a mother the same way another woman might love being a lawyer. Parents can prioritize being present for their kids over spending most of their time focused on furthering their career or just earning a paycheck.

But can't you do both? It' a false choice at times. Not always, but at times.

I heard someone use the term "full time mother' the other day -- I know what they meant, but are we not all full time mothers?

I wish I could afford to stay home and be a mother and wife. Instead, I’m paying someone else to spend whole days with my child while I work at a career that is meaningless to me.

Being a mother is not “just” being a mother. People can love being a mother the same way another woman might love being a lawyer. Parents can prioritize being present for their kids over spending most of their time focused on furthering their career or just earning a paycheck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only SAHMs or WAH/WOHs that annoy me are the ones that think their path is the only correct answer and can't fathom that someone would choose differently, or have different circumstances (financial, health, etc.) that limits their choices.

Funny enough, I am currently a working mom who may soon become an expat, SAHM. Which in some ways is a bit daunting to think about, but part of me would like to get off the hamster wheel for a couple years.

Agreed, but I wonder how many people are really like that. There are SAHMs, part-time working moms, full-time working moms, super high powered full-time working moms, etc at my kids school and it isn't really ever discussed. The PTA is run by parents of all types. The only time this really comes up is when discussing things like activities and camps- eg sometimes the SAHMs might not need as much camp but I would still ask them what they are planning to do for the summer and see if their kids might want to do camp with mine. I don't really think about their situations or judge them in any way. If it works for them, it works for them, right? My working situation works for my family, I can't imagine caring about what works for another family.

The PTA SAHMs at my school refuse to talk to the women that WOTH. It's fortunate you haven't noticed that experience, but there's a lot of us that deal with this on the daily.

Poster with 4 kids, full time + work, husband with a job, ailing parents:

We all have the same amount of time. I DO think sometimes I feel a bit smug about the fact that I am parenting kids who seem to "have it all" in terms of attention I give them and they need (yes, more time would be ideal... but honestly, not THAT much more time).

AND I am also doing a bunch of other stuff. Admittedly we outsource a lot that we wouldn't pay for if we had a stay-at-home parent, but 1) we make WAY more than we are paying (and we don't make a ton by DCUM standards) and 2) neither of us are interested in those tasks - things like cleaning and cleaning gutters.

I completely recognize that some people have different preferences, and more challenging/time intensive kids.

And maybe it's hypocritical to say we shouldn't glorify being busy, but turn around and say that -

Part of me thinks, why is this a tradeoff? Or maybe the SAHM think "there is SO MUCH MORE she should be doing for her kids." But I think many of them are overinvolved in their kids lives in a way that is harmful to everyone, and I don't really get why people wouldn't want to do it all (yes, I get that it's a priviledge - but if you are asking for my honest thoughts...)

PP directly above here- and while I think about it, I never know what to say when people say, "oh you must be so busy" because I think they mean it as a complement, or mabe just an observation - real question: what is the socially graceful response that doesn't glorify business (e.g. oh yes, you must be busy too! seems akin to "but I Love YOUR shirt...")

Anonymous wrote:I don't get why people find it so triggering to hear someone who feels busy say "I've been really busy." And the idea that you are not allowed to say this unless you have a certain number of kids or are a working mom -- the arrogance and ignorance of that attitude.

I have one kid but she has special needs that most people don't know about. I have a sibling with a substance abuse problem and a parent with physical and mental health problems. My MIL's health has started to fail as well. My DH hates his job but cannot quit for financial reasons and navigating that is exhausting. I work a flexible job so that I can be there for my DD who needs a lot of support, and what that means is that I sometimes spend much of the day taking care of her needs and then I work until 1 or 2 am in order to get my work done. That's what "flexibility" buys me -- the freedom to work when I should be sleeping because I have to parent when I should be working. We can't get by without my income.

So if I say "I'm busy" and someone thinks "omg this idiot thinks she's busy and she only has ONE child," they can kindly go **** themselves.

agree on the one hand, but on the other hand, this glorification of the busy is too much and dumb in itself.
Signed, sandwich generation woman with 4 kids and a full time job and ailing parents and in-laws -- just a fact, not a brag

Anonymous wrote:The only SAHMs or WAH/WOHs that annoy me are the ones that think their path is the only correct answer and can't fathom that someone would choose differently, or have different circumstances (financial, health, etc.) that limits their choices.

Funny enough, I am currently a working mom who may soon become an expat, SAHM. Which in some ways is a bit daunting to think about, but part of me would like to get off the hamster wheel for a couple years.

Thankfully the only moms who go on and on about whether they work outside the home or primarily run the household are the ones here on DCUM. In real life the vast majority don't bring this stuff up at all for discussion. So, lucky for you that you mostly don't have to be annoyed by those in your actual life being that judgmental and preachy.

I do think it's valuable to find out what is actually going on in people's heads which is the main value of DCUM. Learning stuff you would never otherwise know because most people don't want to pollute their real life relationships with these thoughts and speculations.

Whatever happened to women's liberation being about being able to make whatever choice you choose to make as a woman? If you want to stay home, fine. If you want to work 60 hours a week, fine. It's your choice!

I'm a SAHM of teens, and I love my life! I have a great life. I don't spend my time being angry at women who work full time. Why bother? That is a waste of my energies, I have other things to do. I think working women should stop focusing on SAHMs and do the same. Mind your own business and allow other women to make their choices that are different from yours.

I've been married to the same man for going on 30 years. If it all fell apart tomorrow, I would be just fine financially because we have built a life together with many assets and I would be entitled to half of it.