Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:48     Subject: Re:Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Can there just be an understanding that you should never resist arrest? Regardless of race, gender, criminal record - just do not resist arrest.


Are you asking this in full awareness that the outcomes of that perspective are nonetheless very different for some groups of people than others?


Citation please? Show me the video or story of a white male/female resisting arrest violently and repeatedly and the outcome of their final arrest. I’ll wait….


Physical scuffle, wrestled to the ground, suspect threatened with point blank taser but never used, ended up under officer essentially uninjured, officer neaver reached for gun
https://twitter.com/ramseyboltin/status/1299851359659925507

Want more? Here's a link with more links:

Violent White Folks Who Were Taken Into Custody With Loving Care By Police
https://newsone.com/playlist/white-arrested-with-by-police/item/10/



Let's stop with the cherry picking please. This 62 year old white dude was beaten by TN cops so severely his family members didn't recognize him afterwards. The cops tried to cover it up, and the FBI had to investigate
:
...
We can argue to eternity over police brutality of black folks with many examples on white dudes getting shot or beaten by police too. Focusing on race only of the victims entirely misses the bigger picture which is that there is a serious problem with policing in the US that teaches pretty much all cops to dehumanize all citizens they are supposed to be serving


Heyyy, power down. You (or whomever) asked for "the video or story of a white male/female resisting arrest violently and repeatedly and the outcome of their final arrest," so I did. Don't ask if you don't want the answer; alternatively, don't enter into an ongoing conversation if you don't want the answer.

Nonetheless, I think you are completely right that there is a serious problem with policing in the US that teaches pretty much all cops to dehumanize all citizens they are supposed to be serving. In addition, it is also true that telling people they should all just never resist arrest (as if that solves the problem) ignores the way the effects of that would be disproportionately felt by some members of society. And the latter is the conversation you either started or chose to enter.

I'm not sure why you would disagree with that differential experience, especially given the last few years, but apparently you do.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:42     Subject: Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Most innocent people get killed by cops for not following instructions.

When I was 29 I was driving a red Jeep at 4am by myself and I kinda saw a cop way back behind me. I was dead sober. I actually feel asleep on GFs sofa on a Thursday watching a movie and was driving home cause I had work the next day

As I approached the county line an unmarked car came out of now here cut me off and the cop car behind boxes me in.

Cop comes out with gun puts it towards my head yells put hand in dashboard don’t move Fing hands and a third cop car boxes me in one left side.

I stay quite hand in dash. Finally he puts gun away.

Turns out someone carjacked same exact Jeep I had same color with a discription of single man age late 20s.

As I was approaching county line unless in hot pursuit could not follow and was running plates when he pulled me over.

I would have been shot of did not follow directions.

Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:39     Subject: Re:Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Anonymous wrote:Another brilliant example of how to deescalate and how to create space until proper equipment can arrive to take care of the situation in a nonlethal manner:



Count how many police officers it took to subdue the man with a stick. I counted 20 by the time the video ended. That’s just not realistic in most place in America. He could have been tazed and it would have been safer for all. He almost clocked a cop in the head.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:34     Subject: Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why did they have such a hard time putting tyre in custody, they had 5 cops? How could they not restrain him from resisting?


They should do toxicology on the cops.


Steroid abuse is a serious issue.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:32     Subject: Re:Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Can there just be an understanding that you should never resist arrest? Regardless of race, gender, criminal record - just do not resist arrest.


Are you asking this in full awareness that the outcomes of that perspective are nonetheless very different for some groups of people than others?


Citation please? Show me the video or story of a white male/female resisting arrest violently and repeatedly and the outcome of their final arrest. I’ll wait….


Physical scuffle, wrestled to the ground, suspect threatened with point blank taser but never used, ended up under officer essentially uninjured, officer neaver reached for gun
https://twitter.com/ramseyboltin/status/1299851359659925507

Want more? Here's a link with more links:

Violent White Folks Who Were Taken Into Custody With Loving Care By Police
https://newsone.com/playlist/white-arrested-with-by-police/item/10/



Let's stop with the cherry picking please. This 62 year old white dude was beaten by TN cops so severely his family members didn't recognize him afterwards. The cops tried to cover it up, and the FBI had to investigate
:

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/fbi-investigating-prosecutors-actions-following-arrest


Here's shocking video of cops in Arkansas beating the piss out of a white kid who is clearly unarmed and not a threat:



We can argue to eternity over police brutality of black folks with many examples on white dudes getting shot or beaten by police too. Focusing on race only of the victims entirely misses the bigger picture which is that there is a serious problem with policing in the US that teaches pretty much all cops to dehumanize all citizens they are supposed to be serving


I disagree with yo.u because it happens disproportionally to black people. Statistics do not lie. Black people have much different outcomes than white. Have you ever been pulled over for no reason? I never have. Ask anyone you know who is black.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:29     Subject: Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
*too*
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:28     Subject: Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The other day I was watching a Carol Burnett show skit from the 1970s about police brutality toward college students protesting the Vietnam War.

And then in the 1980s, we have rappers who sang about police brutality. Ice T summed it up. "Our wars won't end until all wars cease." Ice T the poet.

I am afraid it's true.

I see more clearly now in my early 50s, this isn't something that will ever change.

There will always be violent men. My 8th grade teacher used to tell the boys they would end up dead or in jail. One of those boys is now an electrician with a beautiful family with two college aged daughters. He didn't go to college but learned a trade, how to be an electrician.

There is a certain controlling personality type who will choose law enforcement as a career. No amount of empathy training or de-escalation training is going to change their behavior. They must be held accountable for their actions with the threat of prison. But most of these boys and men aren't afraid of the police, the law, or threat of prison. So here we are.



The problem are guns. Police are a symptom. Cops would not be on edge all time, wouldn’t have an us vs them attitude, and wouldn’t be militarized if there were no guns. For starters, cops wouldn’t even need to carry guns if there were never 300+ million guns on the streets in the US. That’d at least reduce the risk of deadly police shootings and mass shootings by a lot.


I grew up in a small town with zero gun crime and the cops still had an us vs them attitude. Especially with poor people. American policing is the problem.


Bail issues to. They can lock someone for no reason for extended periods of time and there is no recourse. None.

Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:27     Subject: Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:^^PS: and the fact that there are people in this very thread who cannot acknowledge there is a problem that needs to be addressed means something, too.


I suspect the vast majority of people recognize there are major problems in the ways police use force throughout the US. Many of us understand they have an extremely difficult job and would like them better supported with longer training and mental health resources while on the job.

There is at least one person in every thread on unjustified police killings that becomes extremely defensive about all police work and accuses the victims of police violence of being on drugs and resisting arrest. It is not helping the police though he thinks he is.


Don't you think that a critical way to support LEOs in their very difficult jobs would be to set in place oversight over what happens to the "bad apple" colleagues, so they are not passed from site to site, too? Can't that be mentioned whenever we mention other supports for them, even though it means bringing in the same level of state legislative oversight that other professions are burdened with (not fun, but necessary)?

I'm always happy to include mental health supports and longer training whenever I have the discussion about career level licensure for this kind of job. I think all of this is important, but only one leg of that would be relatively quick to implement with the least amount of infrastructure and funding burden, and that's tracking with teeth.


Yes I do think that is important as well.


I really appreciate that, and I appreciate you sharing your perspective.

I suspect that there are not many viable paths for individual police officers to do what they believe to be the right thing sometimes. We need to make it much easier to ask for help and to get help, bot for oneself and for others who are concerning.


I completely agree.

We can’t just hold police accountable without adequate training and supports to help them so their job to keep the public safe.

But accountability with test is necessary because there will always be people who exploit power in bad ways without accountability.

However, the majority of police who try to enforce laws in constructive ways need to know they are valued and cared for.

Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:22     Subject: Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Interesting how when the cops are black, decisive action is taken immediately. Let’s remember this when a white cop kills someone and the “investigation” drags on for months.


Interesting how you haven't realized that this is actually evidence that change is happening - that is proof that things get better and that people can make change happen.



Change is kind of happening but studies have shown after incidents like this, within months law enforcement is back to the same old abuse. Go read about it and not at some right wing news site.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:20     Subject: Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Anonymous wrote:why do they even have to make it public. I mean i know there has to be accountability and transparency - but really do any of us need to see it?


clearly a white person.

Do you realize how many white people deny that this stuff ever happens? Do you realize that police have been able to get away with this stuff forever? Are you really that clueless?
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:20     Subject: Re:Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Can there just be an understanding that you should never resist arrest? Regardless of race, gender, criminal record - just do not resist arrest.


Are you asking this in full awareness that the outcomes of that perspective are nonetheless very different for some groups of people than others?


Citation please? Show me the video or story of a white male/female resisting arrest violently and repeatedly and the outcome of their final arrest. I’ll wait….


Physical scuffle, wrestled to the ground, suspect threatened with point blank taser but never used, ended up under officer essentially uninjured, officer neaver reached for gun
https://twitter.com/ramseyboltin/status/1299851359659925507

Want more? Here's a link with more links:

Violent White Folks Who Were Taken Into Custody With Loving Care By Police
https://newsone.com/playlist/white-arrested-with-by-police/item/10/



Let's stop with the cherry picking please. This 62 year old white dude was beaten by TN cops so severely his family members didn't recognize him afterwards. The cops tried to cover it up, and the FBI had to investigate
:

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates/fbi-investigating-prosecutors-actions-following-arrest


Here's shocking video of cops in Arkansas beating the piss out of a white kid who is clearly unarmed and not a threat:



We can argue to eternity over police brutality of black folks with many examples on white dudes getting shot or beaten by police too. Focusing on race only of the victims entirely misses the bigger picture which is that there is a serious problem with policing in the US that teaches pretty much all cops to dehumanize all citizens they are supposed to be serving
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:17     Subject: Re:Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Anonymous wrote:Look how British cops handle a guy with a knife completely without guns:



You can bet cops would have wasted this guy in 20 milliseconds in the US.


The US has too many guns. Root of problem.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:15     Subject: Re:Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Another brilliant example of how to deescalate and how to create space until proper equipment can arrive to take care of the situation in a nonlethal manner:



This was a very powerful video. Thank you for posting. The British officers had clearly been trained in de-escalation techniques and had a plan. They surrounded the man with the machete from a safe a distance and distracted him long enough for protective shields to be brought in--man with machete is swiftly disarmed.. No shots fired, no tasering, no violence perpetrated on what was clearly a disturbed individual having a mental breakdown or drug-induced episode. Wouldn't it be nice if all U.S. LEO were trained in de-escalation techniques and taught to use shields to protect themselves while disarming someone--rather than just using them during riots? People having a mental health episode or on drugs who are holding something other than a gun that can be used as a weapon (knife, machete, broken bottle, rock, whatever) should not be shot to death, even if they are resisting arrest.


Agreed.

But American cops are always afraid that people have a gun on them.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:12     Subject: Re:Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Anonymous wrote:Another brilliant example of how to deescalate and how to create space until proper equipment can arrive to take care of the situation in a nonlethal manner:



This was a very powerful video. Thank you for posting. The British officers had clearly been trained in de-escalation techniques and had a plan. They surrounded the man with the machete from a safe a distance and distracted him long enough for protective shields to be brought in--man with machete is swiftly disarmed.. No shots fired, no tasering, no violence perpetrated on what was clearly a disturbed individual having a mental breakdown or drug-induced episode. Wouldn't it be nice if all U.S. LEO were trained in de-escalation techniques and taught to use shields to protect themselves while disarming someone--rather than just using them during riots? People having a mental health episode or on drugs who are holding something other than a gun that can be used as a weapon (knife, machete, broken bottle, rock, whatever) should not be shot to death, even if they are resisting arrest.
Anonymous
Post 01/28/2023 12:04     Subject: Re:Memphis Cops Kill Motorist After Traffic Stop
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Look how British cops handle a guy with a knife completely without guns:



You can bet cops would have wasted this guy in 20 milliseconds in the US.


How is the relevant? No guns were used in this instance


Because it shows how cops can deescalate situations and arrest people without resorting to beatings, shootings, and wanton violence.

So the suspect ran here in this case....so what. Give him space to run and let him tire himeself out. If he gets away, so what? You have his car and know his identity. The car was not reported stolen, so odds are the probability that it was stolen are low.

Giving space can deescalate situations, just like how the Brits practice and are trained to do even when suspects are carrying weapons.