Hello everyone! This has been such an informative thread as we’re applying to Kindergarten for our son. So thank you to everyone for keeping this thread going! The comment about thriving in a 2T school vs being one of many in a TT school really hit home - I don’t think the pressure cooker approach is necessarily the right one (depends on the kid of course).

I’d love to hear more general thoughts, positive and negative, aside from what tier they are as that’s not a guiding factor for me, on the following schools:

Collegiate
Browning
St. David’s
Allen-Stevenson
Buckley

Many, many thanks as we navigate this unfamiliar process!

Anonymous wrote:That St B's description was great - humor, eccentricity, great dinner party guests. Do any of the girls' schools produce a similar style of graduate?

Chapin!

That St B's description was great - humor, eccentricity, great dinner party guests. Do any of the girls' schools produce a similar style of graduate?

To the St B's poster above, thank you! Love hearing this insight. I am a first time mom of a young boy in NYC preschool and I have been trying to reflect on what kind of education I want for him. Your experience sounds wonderful.

To speak more to the difference in skillset that some independent schools can foster versus many of my high-performing friends from the public school to Ivy track:

In this same St. Bernard's to Collegiate pipeline, one boy who was the valedictorian at Princeton went on to work for several reputable hedge funds before starting his own (and later sold it). His biggest focus during high school and college? Classics.

Another St. B's boy went to Collegiate, then Harvard, played professional ice hockey, and also turned out to be an amazing writer of one of the funniest books I've read about investment banking as a career.

Many of my more traditional public school friends were just top academic performers who focused on straight up math and science accomplishments during their school years.

St B's has a somewhat unique culture in NYC. It is very English and stresses a sort of general erudition. Public speaking, writing, literature are all very important. It is the only grammar school I know of with a (challenging) class dedicated solely to geography (in its own quite beautiful geography room). The school is extremely intense academically, it has produced some massively successful people, but it is not a future-hedge-funder factory. Humour, eccentricity, and tradition with an importance placed on character go along with the high academic expectations of the students. It can also be very tough, in the first few grades about 5 or 6 students didn't make the cut and transferred elsewhere. There is a lot of individualism and the students remain deeply loyal for the rest of their lives (evidenced by the fact that this 38 yr old Old Boy is writing this post as honestly as possible, biased though it may seen...). St B's graduates make great dinner party guests in my experience!

I was probably about 10th in my class of 35, so yes one would have to be towards the top to go to Collegiate. If ever classmate ahead of me also wanted to go I probably would not have gotten in. I would not be surprised to learn that St B's sends (or sent) more boys to Collegiate for high school than anywhere else (as spaces are quite limited anyhow, would equate to 2-5 from St B's each yr I would think).

Probably about 40% of my year went to either Collegiate, Trinity, Horace Mann, Andover, or Exeter which I would say are all comparable academically. I think 5 or 6 went to Trinity in my year. Due to the Englishness of the school and its parents, there is occasionally a boy who goes to Eton or Winchester or one the English schools. There is also usually one boy who ends up at Stuyvesant. The boys I would think of as the top three in my class went to Collegiate, Trinity, and Andover (one of whom ended up being the Valedictorian of his Princeton year). I would say students bang in the middle of the class would go to Choate, Hotchkiss, perhaps St Paul's. Boarding school was more common than NYC high schools (then at least).

If your goal is to have your son end up at Collegiate (which is, of course, a great choice too) then I would imagine applying for K is a surer way vs going to St B's and trying to get one of the few spaces available in high school. As I can only speak for myself and my fellow St B's/Collegiate classmates, we all felt that the quality of education and the truly special experience that St B's offered followed by the incredible education at Collegiate was a combination that couldn't be beat.

Hope that helps!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:np. If you cared only about academic rigor, my opinion would be:
Trinity > Hunter > St. B > Dalton > Riverdale > Town

Private k-12, vs UES k-8, vs Hunter are going to be very different though. Hunter will be the most different, with fewer wealthy families and more immigrants. FWIW, going through 12th grade wasn't important to us, so we're at a boys' k-8.

For purely academic rigor, I agree with this order.

Can’t speak for the current situation but judging from the forum not much has changed…I went to St B’s then Collegiate (in 2000) along with two boys from my class. We were all towards the top of our Collegiate class from the get go, St B’s is probably more academically rigorous grades 1-8 than Collegiate, perhaps due to the fact that its reputation must be made by then. My former St B’s classmates who went to Trinity felt the same. Collegiate and St B’s are both great schools, but St B’s is a really special place which truly fosters intellectual curiosity. All the classmates I have kept up with over the years (a lot) agree it was the best school they’ve ever gone to, including university.

What was the culture at St B like?

Did you have to be at the top of St B to get a spot at Collegiate? Where do boys with average grades go?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:np. If you cared only about academic rigor, my opinion would be:
Trinity > Hunter > St. B > Dalton > Riverdale > Town

Private k-12, vs UES k-8, vs Hunter are going to be very different though. Hunter will be the most different, with fewer wealthy families and more immigrants. FWIW, going through 12th grade wasn't important to us, so we're at a boys' k-8.

For purely academic rigor, I agree with this order.

Can’t speak for the current situation but judging from the forum not much has changed…I went to St B’s then Collegiate (in 2000) along with two boys from my class. We were all towards the top of our Collegiate class from the get go, St B’s is probably more academically rigorous grades 1-8 than Collegiate, perhaps due to the fact that its reputation must be made by then. My former St B’s classmates who went to Trinity felt the same. Collegiate and St B’s are both great schools, but St B’s is a really special place which truly fosters intellectual curiosity. All the classmates I have kept up with over the years (a lot) agree it was the best school they’ve ever gone to, including university.

I went to Trinity back when it was just coed in the HS but not entirely so in the lower and middle schools - so all of the girls were new but the boys had all been there since at least K. This meant that there were not many spots for boys in the HS so the ones who got in had to be smart. There were about five boys in my class who came from St. B’s and all were super super smart and graduated at the top of our class. Same goes for the Spence girls. All very impressive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:np. If you cared only about academic rigor, my opinion would be:
Trinity > Hunter > St. B > Dalton > Riverdale > Town

Private k-12, vs UES k-8, vs Hunter are going to be very different though. Hunter will be the most different, with fewer wealthy families and more immigrants. FWIW, going through 12th grade wasn't important to us, so we're at a boys' k-8.

For purely academic rigor, I agree with this order.

Can’t speak for the current situation but judging from the forum not much has changed…I went to St B’s then Collegiate (in 2000) along with two boys from my class. We were all towards the top of our Collegiate class from the get go, St B’s is probably more academically rigorous grades 1-8 than Collegiate, perhaps due to the fact that its reputation must be made by then. My former St B’s classmates who went to Trinity felt the same. Collegiate and St B’s are both great schools, but St B’s is a really special place which truly fosters intellectual curiosity. All the classmates I have kept up with over the years (a lot) agree it was the best school they’ve ever gone to, including university.

Anonymous wrote:I’m the one who wrote above about recent experience.

It’s not something the parents talk about a lot, but my guess would be yes lots do use consultants.

We however did not use one, and certainly could not afford a super expensive one. And in our case that did not prevent admission at the most selective colleges.

Also depends why you want a consultant. As a second opinion if college counselors seem too pessimistic? Someone to help with essays? I would be more inclined to seek help just with specific questions rather than throw down lots of money. But for those who can afford it I guess why not?

As mention parents don't openly talk about it. From speculation I gathered the gamesmanship can go as far as selecting west coast private school to attend for the geographic diversity, courses to select for STEM major, portfolio of apps, summer activities/internships, easy to attain national recognition honors, etc...

In addition, there is a heighten awareness of students with similar profiles from the same school.

I’m the one who wrote above about recent experience.

It’s not something the parents talk about a lot, but my guess would be yes lots do use consultants.

We however did not use one, and certainly could not afford a super expensive one. And in our case that did not prevent admission at the most selective colleges.

Also depends why you want a consultant. As a second opinion if college counselors seem too pessimistic? Someone to help with essays? I would be more inclined to seek help just with specific questions rather than throw down lots of money. But for those who can afford it I guess why not?

TT private school counselors do that too is the point...they have relationships with AOs and (depending on the school) they provide unlimited 1 on 1 access for advice tailored to the student, help managing timeline and process, limitless essay feedback, etc. Seems redundant to add the extra cost if you're already getting that level of service from your school. Again, this is not every school...but if this discussion/thread is limited to TT privates.

Anonymous wrote:NP. My sense is that a fair amount of families in our cohort hire outside counselors. It seemed to us - considering the $$$ one already pays for the robust guidance machine at a TT private - to be an unnecessary extra. Ask me in a few months whether it was the right call.

An outside counselor will provide 1 on 1 attention on painting the narrative for college admissions. The book Who Gets in and Why: A Year Inside College Admissions by Jeffrey J. Selingo goes into the details.

NP. My sense is that a fair amount of families in our cohort hire outside counselors. It seemed to us - considering the $$$ one already pays for the robust guidance machine at a TT private - to be an unnecessary extra. Ask me in a few months whether it was the right call.

Anonymous wrote:Having recently been through the college process a one of these TT schools, it's quite clear that the excellent college admissions at my kid's school is not reducible to legacy status, donors, URM etc.

It may be more true for HYP specifically, which have gotten so hard to the point that nowadays it almost seems like you have be both an absolute top student AND a legacy to get in from the top NYC privates. But even so, there are many more HYP legacies either not getting in, or encouraged to apply elsewhere, and many of them (and others) end up at great schools where they have no legacy.

The most significant thing about these schools's placement is the percentage of students going to top schools (including the LACs of course). If you look online it seems that Brearley is probably in a class of its own in this respect both in terms of the percentage going to HYP and to this broader groups of top schools. It goes beyond even the top half of the class.

That said, it's a self-selective crowd and these schools can be pressure cookers. So it's not clear that a student who is thriving at a T2 or T3 school should switch or that doing so will have such an important impact on college admissions. And of course, it easy to get obsessed with college rankings over fit, when the rankings matter far less in life than might be suppose.

Another thing to keep in mind is how early admissions gamesmanship has changed things. Certain colleges (like U. Chicago) have shown themselves willing to admit larger numbers of NYC students who apply early, and so you have students who are steered to these places and never even find out where else they might have gotten in.

That said, from what I've seen, the less risk averse kids who end up in the regular decision round seem to do great as well.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Good to hear. Did a lot of students at TT hire private counselors, and, if so, did it make a difference?