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Anonymous wrote:Trump is the embodiment of narcissism. He has bragged time after time that he has the power to declassify sua sponte. So why should we naively think that he has not exercised this power — at least in his own mind — through the mere the act of removing them to MAL, as he has said repeatedly? Kash Patel likewise has said as much. Trump keeps repeating this because like any narcissist he can’t help himself and doesn’t believe he did anything wrong by sharing the informatuon once the materials were “declassified.” Just as with his sharing a photo of the Iranian launch site. It’s the ultimate tell. There’s no need to “declassify” something unless you plan to use it for some purpose.

Trump is nothing if not transactional. He only does something if it benefits him in some way? Well, it’s not too hard to envision a number of ways the magicsl power to declassify could be used for his benefit. He didn’t want to relinquish control over these materials even after DOJ came to get them pursuant to a grand jury subpoena and allowed one or more of his lawyers to provide a false certification in violation of 18 USC s. 1001.

He's shown no evidence to the special master (or anyone else) of having done so

Even if they were declassified, he still doesn't get to keep them

Why then keep dancing around the issue? There has to be a cogent strategy motivating repeated reference in his filings to something that on its face seems absurd and is flatly contradicted by the Obama Exrcutive Order. Why undercut your credibility with Dearie and the 11th Circuit only to be called out for it. Are they just placating a mercurial client? Seems foolish if so.

Declassification would be a defense if he is charged with divulging state secrets. The are what’s going on. They are going to preserve the defense as long as they can, and muddy the media space with BS theories about his power to declassify.

I fail to see how this is a defense. They are still secrets, whether or not he declassifies them. It's protected information that the U.S. does not want to fall into enemy hands. And they are the property of the government, not FPOTUS, so how can it possibly be legal for him to divulge their contents even if he supposedly declassified them (which of course, he did not)?

Declassification does not happen until someone issue an order. If there is no record of the order it never happens.

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Anonymous wrote:Trump is the embodiment of narcissism. He has bragged time after time that he has the power to declassify sua sponte. So why should we naively think that he has not exercised this power — at least in his own mind — through the mere the act of removing them to MAL, as he has said repeatedly? Kash Patel likewise has said as much. Trump keeps repeating this because like any narcissist he can’t help himself and doesn’t believe he did anything wrong by sharing the informatuon once the materials were “declassified.” Just as with his sharing a photo of the Iranian launch site. It’s the ultimate tell. There’s no need to “declassify” something unless you plan to use it for some purpose.

Trump is nothing if not transactional. He only does something if it benefits him in some way? Well, it’s not too hard to envision a number of ways the magicsl power to declassify could be used for his benefit. He didn’t want to relinquish control over these materials even after DOJ came to get them pursuant to a grand jury subpoena and allowed one or more of his lawyers to provide a false certification in violation of 18 USC s. 1001.

He's shown no evidence to the special master (or anyone else) of having done so

Even if they were declassified, he still doesn't get to keep them

Why then keep dancing around the issue? There has to be a cogent strategy motivating repeated reference in his filings to something that on its face seems absurd and is flatly contradicted by the Obama Exrcutive Order. Why undercut your credibility with Dearie and the 11th Circuit only to be called out for it. Are they just placating a mercurial client? Seems foolish if so.

Declassification would be a defense if he is charged with divulging state secrets. The are what’s going on. They are going to preserve the defense as long as they can, and muddy the media space with BS theories about his power to declassify.

I fail to see how this is a defense. They are still secrets, whether or not he declassifies them. It's protected information that the U.S. does not want to fall into enemy hands. And they are the property of the government, not FPOTUS, so how can it possibly be legal for him to divulge their contents even if he supposedly declassified them (which of course, he did not)?

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Anonymous wrote:He is vilifying NARA.
I mean. Really.

It’s the only thing he knows how to do.

Those crazy left wing … archivists!

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Anonymous wrote:Trump is the embodiment of narcissism. He has bragged time after time that he has the power to declassify sua sponte. So why should we naively think that he has not exercised this power — at least in his own mind — through the mere the act of removing them to MAL, as he has said repeatedly? Kash Patel likewise has said as much. Trump keeps repeating this because like any narcissist he can’t help himself and doesn’t believe he did anything wrong by sharing the informatuon once the materials were “declassified.” Just as with his sharing a photo of the Iranian launch site. It’s the ultimate tell. There’s no need to “declassify” something unless you plan to use it for some purpose.

Trump is nothing if not transactional. He only does something if it benefits him in some way? Well, it’s not too hard to envision a number of ways the magicsl power to declassify could be used for his benefit. He didn’t want to relinquish control over these materials even after DOJ came to get them pursuant to a grand jury subpoena and allowed one or more of his lawyers to provide a false certification in violation of 18 USC s. 1001.

He's shown no evidence to the special master (or anyone else) of having done so

Even if they were declassified, he still doesn't get to keep them

Why then keep dancing around the issue? There has to be a cogent strategy motivating repeated reference in his filings to something that on its face seems absurd and is flatly contradicted by the Obama Exrcutive Order. Why undercut your credibility with Dearie and the 11th Circuit only to be called out for it. Are they just placating a mercurial client? Seems foolish if so.

Declassification would be a defense if he is charged with divulging state secrets. The are what’s going on. They are going to preserve the defense as long as they can, and muddy the media space with BS theories about his power to declassify.

And yet he peremptorily boxed himself in by asking Cannon to direct a special master to make determinations as to declassification in the context of relief under Rule 41(g).

Well it was worth a shot. It doesn’t stop him from making the argument at trial.

You need actual admissible evidence to back up the argument. Dearie all but laughed at him, as did the appellate panel. Love to see the jury instructions in that issue.

Of course—I’m sure he can get one or two people to attest he waived his magic wand and declassified everything that he ever saw. Right? *crickets*

But then what? The Espionage Act doesn't require that the information is classified, it just requires the information be damaging.

That's sort of true (it also has to be "closely held" and related to the military or national defense), but the classification issue is closely tied into this because declassification typically means 1) the president or authorized official has determined it is not damaging and 2) it is no longer closely held. Here's an excellent explanation from a former CIA lawyer:

Just because twitter guys says he’s a former CIA lawyer doesn’t mean he’s got this entirely right. There is indeed a process for classification that produces records so people know what is classified and what isn’t. Like I said before, a sitting president can divulge whatever info he wants when he’s the president—-doesn’t mean everyone else can divulge until the records are declassified. When he stopped being president he lost the right to possess or divulge classified information. It remains classified whether he waived a magic wand, shared a screenshot or whatever, if he didn’t engage in the process to actually declassify it.

I'm waiting for you to link to the EO, regulation, statute, etc. that describes this process. Happy to engage further once you provide that.

Knock yourself out
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/WCPD-2003-03-31/pdf/WCPD-2003-03-31-Pg359.pdf

The fact that you linked to an EO that was expressly revoked in 2009 tells me all I need to know about your expertise in this area.

That wasn’t me. Here’s the current EO https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information

You’re still missing the point I see.

Now that you've properly identified the EO that is effective today, can you point to the process a president has to use in this EO? Keep in mind that the president is not agency or agency head. TIA.

Continue beating a dead horse and ignoring the distinction I made above between declassification and the powers of the sitting president generally. I have not once argued the procedures apply to the president. He can do what he wants with any and all classified information. He can “declassify” it but if there’s no record of it, then it didn’t happen, and you’re going to find yourself in a jail cell if you take documents with those kinds of markings home.

Yes, the issue is whether he can prove he declassified them. Which is what I said at the outset. Thanks for coming around.

Any yet, whether or not he declassified the documents when he was POTUS is irrelevant now, because he is no longer POTUS (Praise the Lord) and therefore he is in possession of property that belongs to the United States.

P.S. Biden could and should reclassify all of them today. Isn't that what they did to Hillary?

It is relevant to whether DOJ prosecutes under the Espionage Act. You are right that they could still prosecute under a bunch of other statutes, stealing government records being only one (and one of the most minor ones). They can also likely get him on obstruction, failing to comply with a GJ subpoena, and false statements (through conspiracy).

If you read up on the Scooter Libby prosecution, there were many similar issues. DOJ could possibly have prosecuted for disclosing classified information, but Libby could have defended that he was authorized by Bush or Cheney to do it. DOJ avoided the issue by charging false statements. It really wouldn't surprising if DOJ did that here, both to dodge the declassification issue and to try to protect having to disclose any classified information at trial.

18 USC 793 doesn't say anything about classification, just that the document should be "anything connected with the national defense". Which, these undoubtedly are.

This was my thinking too when I read the opinion. When they referenced classification being a red herring - I *think* they had national defense materials in mind. For these purposes (i.e. determining whether the Gov't could continue its national security and criminal investigation) it doesn't matter if they are classified or not.

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Anonymous wrote:Coming back to last night’s 11th circuit decision, for anyone who’s been kind of following this but is feeling a little lost about exactly what has happened or what the law is here, the decision is worth a reason. It gives a very good summary of the factual and procedural history of this past of the case, and the legal analysis is very clear and well-written. Setting aside the merits themselves, this is exactly how you want a judicial decision to be written, giving enough context to fully understand the issues but cleat and concise about the holdings.

And yes, it’s 29 pages, but those are judicial publication pages so they’re really short.

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000183-625b-da48-a3e3-e2ff83050000

Cannon will be the conservatives next SCOTUS pick.

Did you mean to respond to a different post? This is a bit of a non sequitur.

No and it is not a non sequitur.

The quality of the 11th Circuit’s written work has nothing to do with a district court judge’s future career. But I get it, you’re out of your depth and flailing for something to contribute to the discussion.

This decision reverses Cannon's idiotic and poorly reasoned decision. It's a direct slap at her for her incompetence.

But the GOP will love her loyalty and put her on SCOTUS the next chance they get.

This special master is backfiring on Trump spectacularly. Dearie is forcing his team to submit a bunch of declarations undermining their TV defenses (and taking them off the table for a future trial).

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Anonymous wrote:Wow. That Circuit ruling was a serious dismissal of Cannon.

But this line in the ruling really sticks out for me: "... we find unpersuasive Plaintiff’s insistence that he would be harmed by a criminal investigation. 'Bearing the discomfiture and cost of a prosecution for crime even by an innocent person is one of the painful obligations of citizenship.'"

Trump could soon be feeling - for the very first time in his life - "the painful obligations of citizenship".

But for the fact that he doesn’t have to bear any of the cost of a prosecution because that’s why he suckers MAGAworld into sending cash to his PACs, notwithstanding those very same PACs are the subject of another grand jury investigation in DC

Is the money tax free?

Anonymous wrote:Donny Two Scoops had a terrible Wednesday?

If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer!

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Anonymous wrote:Trump is the embodiment of narcissism. He has bragged time after time that he has the power to declassify sua sponte. So why should we naively think that he has not exercised this power — at least in his own mind — through the mere the act of removing them to MAL, as he has said repeatedly? Kash Patel likewise has said as much. Trump keeps repeating this because like any narcissist he can’t help himself and doesn’t believe he did anything wrong by sharing the informatuon once the materials were “declassified.” Just as with his sharing a photo of the Iranian launch site. It’s the ultimate tell. There’s no need to “declassify” something unless you plan to use it for some purpose.

Trump is nothing if not transactional. He only does something if it benefits him in some way? Well, it’s not too hard to envision a number of ways the magicsl power to declassify could be used for his benefit. He didn’t want to relinquish control over these materials even after DOJ came to get them pursuant to a grand jury subpoena and allowed one or more of his lawyers to provide a false certification in violation of 18 USC s. 1001.

He's shown no evidence to the special master (or anyone else) of having done so

Even if they were declassified, he still doesn't get to keep them

Why then keep dancing around the issue? There has to be a cogent strategy motivating repeated reference in his filings to something that on its face seems absurd and is flatly contradicted by the Obama Exrcutive Order. Why undercut your credibility with Dearie and the 11th Circuit only to be called out for it. Are they just placating a mercurial client? Seems foolish if so.

Declassification would be a defense if he is charged with divulging state secrets. The are what’s going on. They are going to preserve the defense as long as they can, and muddy the media space with BS theories about his power to declassify.

And yet he peremptorily boxed himself in by asking Cannon to direct a special master to make determinations as to declassification in the context of relief under Rule 41(g).

Well it was worth a shot. It doesn’t stop him from making the argument at trial.

You need actual admissible evidence to back up the argument. Dearie all but laughed at him, as did the appellate panel. Love to see the jury instructions in that issue.

Of course—I’m sure he can get one or two people to attest he waived his magic wand and declassified everything that he ever saw. Right? *crickets*

But then what? The Espionage Act doesn't require that the information is classified, it just requires the information be damaging.

That's sort of true (it also has to be "closely held" and related to the military or national defense), but the classification issue is closely tied into this because declassification typically means 1) the president or authorized official has determined it is not damaging and 2) it is no longer closely held. Here's an excellent explanation from a former CIA lawyer:

Just because twitter guys says he’s a former CIA lawyer doesn’t mean he’s got this entirely right. There is indeed a process for classification that produces records so people know what is classified and what isn’t. Like I said before, a sitting president can divulge whatever info he wants when he’s the president—-doesn’t mean everyone else can divulge until the records are declassified. When he stopped being president he lost the right to possess or divulge classified information. It remains classified whether he waived a magic wand, shared a screenshot or whatever, if he didn’t engage in the process to actually declassify it.

I'm waiting for you to link to the EO, regulation, statute, etc. that describes this process. Happy to engage further once you provide that.

Knock yourself out
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/WCPD-2003-03-31/pdf/WCPD-2003-03-31-Pg359.pdf

The fact that you linked to an EO that was expressly revoked in 2009 tells me all I need to know about your expertise in this area.

That wasn’t me. Here’s the current EO https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information

You’re still missing the point I see.

Now that you've properly identified the EO that is effective today, can you point to the process a president has to use in this EO? Keep in mind that the president is not agency or agency head. TIA.

Continue beating a dead horse and ignoring the distinction I made above between declassification and the powers of the sitting president generally. I have not once argued the procedures apply to the president. He can do what he wants with any and all classified information. He can “declassify” it but if there’s no record of it, then it didn’t happen, and you’re going to find yourself in a jail cell if you take documents with those kinds of markings home.

Yes, the issue is whether he can prove he declassified them. Which is what I said at the outset. Thanks for coming around.

Any yet, whether or not he declassified the documents when he was POTUS is irrelevant now, because he is no longer POTUS (Praise the Lord) and therefore he is in possession of property that belongs to the United States.

P.S. Biden could and should reclassify all of them today. Isn't that what they did to Hillary?

It is relevant to whether DOJ prosecutes under the Espionage Act. You are right that they could still prosecute under a bunch of other statutes, stealing government records being only one (and one of the most minor ones). They can also likely get him on obstruction, failing to comply with a GJ subpoena, and false statements (through conspiracy).

If you read up on the Scooter Libby prosecution, there were many similar issues. DOJ could possibly have prosecuted for disclosing classified information, but Libby could have defended that he was authorized by Bush or Cheney to do it. DOJ avoided the issue by charging false statements. It really wouldn't surprising if DOJ did that here, both to dodge the declassification issue and to try to protect having to disclose any classified information at trial.

18 USC 793 doesn't say anything about classification, just that the document should be "anything connected with the national defense". Which, these undoubtedly are.

Donny Two Scoops had a terrible Wednesday?

If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer!

Classification, at its heart, IS a process that gives people notice that certain records are restricted to certain audiences.

No process, no classification and no declassification. That is not the reality we live in.

For example, you would never be able to successfully prosecute someone for possessing unmarked documents that were “classified” in the president’s mind, if there was not any record that the documents were classified when the person took them.

“I’m automatically attracted to classified documents — I just start taking them. It’s like a magnet. Just take them. I don’t even wait. When you’re the president, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the armload. You can do anything.”

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Anonymous wrote:Trump is the embodiment of narcissism. He has bragged time after time that he has the power to declassify sua sponte. So why should we naively think that he has not exercised this power — at least in his own mind — through the mere the act of removing them to MAL, as he has said repeatedly? Kash Patel likewise has said as much. Trump keeps repeating this because like any narcissist he can’t help himself and doesn’t believe he did anything wrong by sharing the informatuon once the materials were “declassified.” Just as with his sharing a photo of the Iranian launch site. It’s the ultimate tell. There’s no need to “declassify” something unless you plan to use it for some purpose.

Trump is nothing if not transactional. He only does something if it benefits him in some way? Well, it’s not too hard to envision a number of ways the magicsl power to declassify could be used for his benefit. He didn’t want to relinquish control over these materials even after DOJ came to get them pursuant to a grand jury subpoena and allowed one or more of his lawyers to provide a false certification in violation of 18 USC s. 1001.

He's shown no evidence to the special master (or anyone else) of having done so

Even if they were declassified, he still doesn't get to keep them

Why then keep dancing around the issue? There has to be a cogent strategy motivating repeated reference in his filings to something that on its face seems absurd and is flatly contradicted by the Obama Exrcutive Order. Why undercut your credibility with Dearie and the 11th Circuit only to be called out for it. Are they just placating a mercurial client? Seems foolish if so.

Declassification would be a defense if he is charged with divulging state secrets. The are what’s going on. They are going to preserve the defense as long as they can, and muddy the media space with BS theories about his power to declassify.

And yet he peremptorily boxed himself in by asking Cannon to direct a special master to make determinations as to declassification in the context of relief under Rule 41(g).

Well it was worth a shot. It doesn’t stop him from making the argument at trial.

You need actual admissible evidence to back up the argument. Dearie all but laughed at him, as did the appellate panel. Love to see the jury instructions in that issue.

Of course—I’m sure he can get one or two people to attest he waived his magic wand and declassified everything that he ever saw. Right? *crickets*

But then what? The Espionage Act doesn't require that the information is classified, it just requires the information be damaging.

That's sort of true (it also has to be "closely held" and related to the military or national defense), but the classification issue is closely tied into this because declassification typically means 1) the president or authorized official has determined it is not damaging and 2) it is no longer closely held. Here's an excellent explanation from a former CIA lawyer:

Just because twitter guys says he’s a former CIA lawyer doesn’t mean he’s got this entirely right. There is indeed a process for classification that produces records so people know what is classified and what isn’t. Like I said before, a sitting president can divulge whatever info he wants when he’s the president—-doesn’t mean everyone else can divulge until the records are declassified. When he stopped being president he lost the right to possess or divulge classified information. It remains classified whether he waived a magic wand, shared a screenshot or whatever, if he didn’t engage in the process to actually declassify it.

I'm waiting for you to link to the EO, regulation, statute, etc. that describes this process. Happy to engage further once you provide that.

Knock yourself out
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/WCPD-2003-03-31/pdf/WCPD-2003-03-31-Pg359.pdf

The fact that you linked to an EO that was expressly revoked in 2009 tells me all I need to know about your expertise in this area.

That wasn’t me. Here’s the current EO https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information

You’re still missing the point I see.

Now that you've properly identified the EO that is effective today, can you point to the process a president has to use in this EO? Keep in mind that the president is not agency or agency head. TIA.

DP. Setting aside what is or is not in the regulation itself (which I have not fully pasted), if this were ever litigated the result obviously would be that there needs to be some process to document and confirm declassification. Otherwise it wouldn’t matter at all whether a president actually declassified anything during their term because if it ever became and issue after they were out of office they could claim they did or did not mentally declassify it without telling anyone based on their whims in the moment, and without the need for any corroborating evidence. This would also mean the IC could never know whether a particular piece of information was classified or not, because records or classification and/or declassification would be meaningless - if the president thought it otherwise at some point, the records would be wrong.

I imagine presidents would be given considerable leeway in setting their own practices for documenting declassification, but whatever process they decide to use, you cannot credibly argue that “no process” is an acceptable answer. The IC would cease to function. So let’s drop this stupid argument and deal with reality, okay?

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Anonymous wrote:Trump is the embodiment of narcissism. He has bragged time after time that he has the power to declassify sua sponte. So why should we naively think that he has not exercised this power — at least in his own mind — through the mere the act of removing them to MAL, as he has said repeatedly? Kash Patel likewise has said as much. Trump keeps repeating this because like any narcissist he can’t help himself and doesn’t believe he did anything wrong by sharing the informatuon once the materials were “declassified.” Just as with his sharing a photo of the Iranian launch site. It’s the ultimate tell. There’s no need to “declassify” something unless you plan to use it for some purpose.

Trump is nothing if not transactional. He only does something if it benefits him in some way? Well, it’s not too hard to envision a number of ways the magicsl power to declassify could be used for his benefit. He didn’t want to relinquish control over these materials even after DOJ came to get them pursuant to a grand jury subpoena and allowed one or more of his lawyers to provide a false certification in violation of 18 USC s. 1001.

He's shown no evidence to the special master (or anyone else) of having done so

Even if they were declassified, he still doesn't get to keep them

Why then keep dancing around the issue? There has to be a cogent strategy motivating repeated reference in his filings to something that on its face seems absurd and is flatly contradicted by the Obama Exrcutive Order. Why undercut your credibility with Dearie and the 11th Circuit only to be called out for it. Are they just placating a mercurial client? Seems foolish if so.

Declassification would be a defense if he is charged with divulging state secrets. The are what’s going on. They are going to preserve the defense as long as they can, and muddy the media space with BS theories about his power to declassify.

And yet he peremptorily boxed himself in by asking Cannon to direct a special master to make determinations as to declassification in the context of relief under Rule 41(g).

Well it was worth a shot. It doesn’t stop him from making the argument at trial.

You need actual admissible evidence to back up the argument. Dearie all but laughed at him, as did the appellate panel. Love to see the jury instructions in that issue.

Of course—I’m sure he can get one or two people to attest he waived his magic wand and declassified everything that he ever saw. Right? *crickets*

But then what? The Espionage Act doesn't require that the information is classified, it just requires the information be damaging.

That's sort of true (it also has to be "closely held" and related to the military or national defense), but the classification issue is closely tied into this because declassification typically means 1) the president or authorized official has determined it is not damaging and 2) it is no longer closely held. Here's an excellent explanation from a former CIA lawyer:

Just because twitter guys says he’s a former CIA lawyer doesn’t mean he’s got this entirely right. There is indeed a process for classification that produces records so people know what is classified and what isn’t. Like I said before, a sitting president can divulge whatever info he wants when he’s the president—-doesn’t mean everyone else can divulge until the records are declassified. When he stopped being president he lost the right to possess or divulge classified information. It remains classified whether he waived a magic wand, shared a screenshot or whatever, if he didn’t engage in the process to actually declassify it.

I'm waiting for you to link to the EO, regulation, statute, etc. that describes this process. Happy to engage further once you provide that.

Knock yourself out
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/WCPD-2003-03-31/pdf/WCPD-2003-03-31-Pg359.pdf

The fact that you linked to an EO that was expressly revoked in 2009 tells me all I need to know about your expertise in this area.

That wasn’t me. Here’s the current EO https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information

You’re still missing the point I see.

Now that you've properly identified the EO that is effective today, can you point to the process a president has to use in this EO? Keep in mind that the president is not agency or agency head. TIA.

Continue beating a dead horse and ignoring the distinction I made above between declassification and the powers of the sitting president generally. I have not once argued the procedures apply to the president. He can do what he wants with any and all classified information. He can “declassify” it but if there’s no record of it, then it didn’t happen, and you’re going to find yourself in a jail cell if you take documents with those kinds of markings home.

Yes, the issue is whether he can prove he declassified them. Which is what I said at the outset. Thanks for coming around.

Any yet, whether or not he declassified the documents when he was POTUS is irrelevant now, because he is no longer POTUS (Praise the Lord) and therefore he is in possession of property that belongs to the United States.

P.S. Biden could and should reclassify all of them today. Isn't that what they did to Hillary?

It is relevant to whether DOJ prosecutes under the Espionage Act. You are right that they could still prosecute under a bunch of other statutes, stealing government records being only one (and one of the most minor ones). They can also likely get him on obstruction, failing to comply with a GJ subpoena, and false statements (through conspiracy).

If you read up on the Scooter Libby prosecution, there were many similar issues. DOJ could possibly have prosecuted for disclosing classified information, but Libby could have defended that he was authorized by Bush or Cheney to do it. DOJ avoided the issue by charging false statements. It really wouldn't surprising if DOJ did that here, both to dodge the declassification issue and to try to protect having to disclose any classified information at trial.

DP. They’re going to nail him on obstruction and I will cheerfully accept that. If he did a bad thing with those documents they’ll nail him for that too.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump is the embodiment of narcissism. He has bragged time after time that he has the power to declassify sua sponte. So why should we naively think that he has not exercised this power — at least in his own mind — through the mere the act of removing them to MAL, as he has said repeatedly? Kash Patel likewise has said as much. Trump keeps repeating this because like any narcissist he can’t help himself and doesn’t believe he did anything wrong by sharing the informatuon once the materials were “declassified.” Just as with his sharing a photo of the Iranian launch site. It’s the ultimate tell. There’s no need to “declassify” something unless you plan to use it for some purpose.

Trump is nothing if not transactional. He only does something if it benefits him in some way? Well, it’s not too hard to envision a number of ways the magicsl power to declassify could be used for his benefit. He didn’t want to relinquish control over these materials even after DOJ came to get them pursuant to a grand jury subpoena and allowed one or more of his lawyers to provide a false certification in violation of 18 USC s. 1001.

He's shown no evidence to the special master (or anyone else) of having done so

Even if they were declassified, he still doesn't get to keep them

Why then keep dancing around the issue? There has to be a cogent strategy motivating repeated reference in his filings to something that on its face seems absurd and is flatly contradicted by the Obama Exrcutive Order. Why undercut your credibility with Dearie and the 11th Circuit only to be called out for it. Are they just placating a mercurial client? Seems foolish if so.

Declassification would be a defense if he is charged with divulging state secrets. The are what’s going on. They are going to preserve the defense as long as they can, and muddy the media space with BS theories about his power to declassify.

And yet he peremptorily boxed himself in by asking Cannon to direct a special master to make determinations as to declassification in the context of relief under Rule 41(g).

Well it was worth a shot. It doesn’t stop him from making the argument at trial.

You need actual admissible evidence to back up the argument. Dearie all but laughed at him, as did the appellate panel. Love to see the jury instructions in that issue.

Of course—I’m sure he can get one or two people to attest he waived his magic wand and declassified everything that he ever saw. Right? *crickets*

But then what? The Espionage Act doesn't require that the information is classified, it just requires the information be damaging.

That's sort of true (it also has to be "closely held" and related to the military or national defense), but the classification issue is closely tied into this because declassification typically means 1) the president or authorized official has determined it is not damaging and 2) it is no longer closely held. Here's an excellent explanation from a former CIA lawyer:

Just because twitter guys says he’s a former CIA lawyer doesn’t mean he’s got this entirely right. There is indeed a process for classification that produces records so people know what is classified and what isn’t. Like I said before, a sitting president can divulge whatever info he wants when he’s the president—-doesn’t mean everyone else can divulge until the records are declassified. When he stopped being president he lost the right to possess or divulge classified information. It remains classified whether he waived a magic wand, shared a screenshot or whatever, if he didn’t engage in the process to actually declassify it.

I'm waiting for you to link to the EO, regulation, statute, etc. that describes this process. Happy to engage further once you provide that.

Knock yourself out
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/WCPD-2003-03-31/pdf/WCPD-2003-03-31-Pg359.pdf

The fact that you linked to an EO that was expressly revoked in 2009 tells me all I need to know about your expertise in this area.

That wasn’t me. Here’s the current EO https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information

You’re still missing the point I see.

Now that you've properly identified the EO that is effective today, can you point to the process a president has to use in this EO? Keep in mind that the president is not agency or agency head. TIA.

Continue beating a dead horse and ignoring the distinction I made above between declassification and the powers of the sitting president generally. I have not once argued the procedures apply to the president. He can do what he wants with any and all classified information. He can “declassify” it but if there’s no record of it, then it didn’t happen, and you’re going to find yourself in a jail cell if you take documents with those kinds of markings home.

Yes, the issue is whether he can prove he declassified them. Which is what I said at the outset. Thanks for coming around.

Any yet, whether or not he declassified the documents when he was POTUS is irrelevant now, because he is no longer POTUS (Praise the Lord) and therefore he is in possession of property that belongs to the United States.

P.S. Biden could and should reclassify all of them today. Isn't that what they did to Hillary?

It is relevant to whether DOJ prosecutes under the Espionage Act. You are right that they could still prosecute under a bunch of other statutes, stealing government records being only one (and one of the most minor ones). They can also likely get him on obstruction, failing to comply with a GJ subpoena, and false statements (through conspiracy).

If you read up on the Scooter Libby prosecution, there were many similar issues. DOJ could possibly have prosecuted for disclosing classified information, but Libby could have defended that he was authorized by Bush or Cheney to do it. DOJ avoided the issue by charging false statements. It really wouldn't surprising if DOJ did that here, both to dodge the declassification issue and to try to protect having to disclose any classified information at trial.