Anonymous wrote:I have two stepsons in college who spend all day in their rooms on screens, have never had jobs, have had zero to one extra curric, no chores, have never dated, struggle to pass their classes despite being smart because they are playing video games rather than doing assignments, etc. I don't think they are right wing. But they are failure to launch (Are living at home in college because they like it better than the dorms).

Their mom is MIA. I've known them since junior high but their dad did not give me say in their upbringing. Their dad let them be on screens as much as they wanted. He did not make them get jobs, did not give them any chores, did not make sure they got outside for fresh air and exercise every day.

They literally spent all day, every day this summer in their rooms on screens. Letting dishes pile up in sink. No jobs. No chores. Did not see friends in person, only online.

If I were their parent, I would have changed the wifi password and taken away their devices until they got jobs.

So my advice is:
-Limit screen time
-Require at least one sport or activity per season
-Send them to summer camp that does not have screens
-Make them do their homework and turn assignments in on time. Have consewuences if they don't (ie dont allow video game playing six hours a day after school - well, dont allow that at all - but particularly not if they don't turn in their homework etc)
-Make them get summer jobs once they hit sixteen or seventeen.
-Give them chores from a young age.

My just out of college daughter says sadly that they are "losers" and that she would not recommend any girl date them. She had friends she saw in person, summer jobs, activities, turned in her homework etc. I didn't just let her sit around on screens all the time.

I think the "crisis" with boys is that many parents have very low expectations of tehir sons' contrubtiuons to their households and classrooms and society and enjoy using screens as babysitters.

Anonymous wrote:I hear all this talk about incels but we have boys and I’ve never seen or heard of anyone around us that would fit the incel description.

Anonymous wrote:I have two stepsons in college who spend all day in their rooms on screens, have never had jobs, have had zero to one extra curric, no chores, have never dated, struggle to pass their classes despite being smart because they are playing video games rather than doing assignments, etc. I don't think they are right wing. But they are failure to launch (Are living at home in college because they like it better than the dorms).

Their mom is MIA. I've known them since junior high but their dad did not give me say in their upbringing. Their dad let them be on screens as much as they wanted. He did not make them get jobs, did not give them any chores, did not make sure they got outside for fresh air and exercise every day.

They literally spent all day, every day this summer in their rooms on screens. Letting dishes pile up in sink. No jobs. No chores. Did not see friends in person, only online.

If I were their parent, I would have changed the wifi password and taken away their devices until they got jobs.

So my advice is:
-Limit screen time
-Require at least one sport or activity per season
-Send them to summer camp that does not have screens
-Make them do their homework and turn assignments in on time. Have consewuences if they don't (ie dont allow video game playing six hours a day after school - well, dont allow that at all - but particularly not if they don't turn in their homework etc)
-Make them get summer jobs once they hit sixteen or seventeen.
-Give them chores from a young age.

My just out of college daughter says sadly that they are "losers" and that she would not recommend any girl date them. She had friends she saw in person, summer jobs, activities, turned in her homework etc. I didn't just let her sit around on screens all the time.

I think the "crisis" with boys is that many parents have very low expectations of tehir sons' contrubtiuons to their households and classrooms and society and enjoy using screens as babysitters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boys need
A mom at home.
Almost zero screen time.
Male and female friends, in real life.
A good education, either at home or in a private school.
Lots of fresh air every day.

If you're not doing that, you're gonna have a bad time. Bottom line.

I found the right wing incel. Be for real. Mom at home isn't happening in this economy. Public schools have better educated teachers than private schools that require minimal education and training.

I want responses from real people who live in the real world.

Honestly I can buy the “not in this economy” to an extent for moms who are *just* starting a family.
But for ones who have been moms for the last 10+ years…nope.
“The economy” isn’t the barrier to moms staying home.
It’s the societal myth that is perpetuating the idea that SAHMs will be bored or boring…and the expectation that a family of four needs a 4,500+ square foot home, needs to drive luxury vehicles that are kept for no more than 4 years, and needs to vacation overseas at least dr once every few years. People are living waaaaay above the standard of living that one income can afford. And they are choosing that over prioritizing the health and wellness of their kids.

Completely agree with this. I think social media feeds exceptionally high expectations for people that just aren’t realistic. My wife and I make nearly $300k and she frequently expresses concerns that we’re low-income and I need to double or triple my salary for us to be able to survive. And this is with us maxing out our 401ks and saving a substantial amount for college for the kids, and still having money leftover for savings and a couple vacations a year.

Sounds like she is a gold digger.

Not really—she doesn’t buy lots of expensive stuff or live beyond our means. But she doesn’t ask to spend a lot of time on social media which I think leads to this perception that the vast majority of people are wealthier than they actually are…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boys need
A mom at home.
Almost zero screen time.
Male and female friends, in real life.
A good education, either at home or in a private school.
Lots of fresh air every day.

If you're not doing that, you're gonna have a bad time. Bottom line.

I found the right wing incel. Be for real. Mom at home isn't happening in this economy. Public schools have better educated teachers than private schools that require minimal education and training.

I want responses from real people who live in the real world.

Honestly I can buy the “not in this economy” to an extent for moms who are *just* starting a family.
But for ones who have been moms for the last 10+ years…nope.
“The economy” isn’t the barrier to moms staying home.
It’s the societal myth that is perpetuating the idea that SAHMs will be bored or boring…and the expectation that a family of four needs a 4,500+ square foot home, needs to drive luxury vehicles that are kept for no more than 4 years, and needs to vacation overseas at least dr once every few years. People are living waaaaay above the standard of living that one income can afford. And they are choosing that over prioritizing the health and wellness of their kids.

Completely agree with this. I think social media feeds exceptionally high expectations for people that just aren’t realistic. My wife and I make nearly $300k and she frequently expresses concerns that we’re low-income and I need to double or triple my salary for us to be able to survive. And this is with us maxing out our 401ks and saving a substantial amount for college for the kids, and still having money leftover for savings and a couple vacations a year.

Sounds like she is a gold digger.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boys need
A mom at home.
Almost zero screen time.
Male and female friends, in real life.
A good education, either at home or in a private school.
Lots of fresh air every day.

If you're not doing that, you're gonna have a bad time. Bottom line.

I found the right wing incel. Be for real. Mom at home isn't happening in this economy. Public schools have better educated teachers than private schools that require minimal education and training.

I want responses from real people who live in the real world.

Honestly I can buy the “not in this economy” to an extent for moms who are *just* starting a family.
But for ones who have been moms for the last 10+ years…nope.
“The economy” isn’t the barrier to moms staying home.
It’s the societal myth that is perpetuating the idea that SAHMs will be bored or boring…and the expectation that a family of four needs a 4,500+ square foot home, needs to drive luxury vehicles that are kept for no more than 4 years, and needs to vacation overseas at least dr once every few years. People are living waaaaay above the standard of living that one income can afford. And they are choosing that over prioritizing the health and wellness of their kids.

Completely agree with this. I think social media feeds exceptionally high expectations for people that just aren’t realistic. My wife and I make nearly $300k and she frequently expresses concerns that we’re low-income and I need to double or triple my salary for us to be able to survive. And this is with us maxing out our 401ks and saving a substantial amount for college for the kids, and still having money leftover for savings and a couple vacations a year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boys need
A mom at home.
Almost zero screen time.
Male and female friends, in real life.
A good education, either at home or in a private school.
Lots of fresh air every day.

If you're not doing that, you're gonna have a bad time. Bottom line.

I found the right wing incel. Be for real. Mom at home isn't happening in this economy. Public schools have better educated teachers than private schools that require minimal education and training.

I want responses from real people who live in the real world.

Honestly I can buy the “not in this economy” to an extent for moms who are *just* starting a family.
But for ones who have been moms for the last 10+ years…nope.
“The economy” isn’t the barrier to moms staying home.
It’s the societal myth that is perpetuating the idea that SAHMs will be bored or boring…and the expectation that a family of four needs a 4,500+ square foot home, needs to drive luxury vehicles that are kept for no more than 4 years, and needs to vacation overseas at least dr once every few years. People are living waaaaay above the standard of living that one income can afford. And they are choosing that over prioritizing the health and wellness of their kids.

Anonymous wrote:Boys need
A mom at home.
Almost zero screen time.
Male and female friends, in real life.
A good education, either at home or in a private school.
Lots of fresh air every day.

If you're not doing that, you're gonna have a bad time. Bottom line.

Anonymous wrote:Boys need
A mom at home.
Almost zero screen time.
Male and female friends, in real life.
A good education, either at home or in a private school.
Lots of fresh air every day.

If you're not doing that, you're gonna have a bad time. Bottom line.

Anonymous wrote:I have one family friend who has a son who became a bit of an incel. Or at least I think what OP is talking about. His parents were VERY controlling. He grew up sheltered (wasn't allowed to ride the bus not only to school but also to high school sports games because mom didn't want him hearing boy talk). She was proud of how naive she kept him. Well, he went off to college and went a bit crazy with his freedom, but he didn't have the social skills to match with the freedom he wanted. He turned bitter and angry and when I first saw him his summer after freshman year (we are only 5 years apart) , it was a little scary how angry he was at everyone (especially women) for how his life was going. There was NO self accountability. I know that goes beyond incel but....yikes. I don't know what has happened to him since. There was an incident the following year and my family and most people that I'm still in contact with from that part of my life are no longer in contact with them.

Anonymous wrote:I have a 13 year old DS who I love dearly. I worry all the time about the world he is growing up in. We keep close tabs on friends and online activity but I really worry that he is going to be influenced by terrible outside sources one way or the other. I can't be everywhere and he needs to grow up with some freedom and self autonomy. But I worry.

Parents who had boys who became incels or failed to launch. Were there signs that you missed? Were you able to intervene? Did they come out of it and change? What would you do differently?