Americans don't want single payer and neither does the UHC killer. He is a mentally ill patient himself, he probably should have taken his prescriptions instead of going to a co-op and getting involved in QANON.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

I think most people agree that healthcare is a human right but the rub is deciding how much healthcare and what kind of healthcare that is?

The question is, how do we make sure those decisions are made by people for whom health care is care, rather than those for whom it is first and foremost a financial investment whose value must by definition grow?

Just like in europe/ NHS:
Preventative care covered by taxpayers (income and vat)

Basic procedures covered by taxpayers

Critical proven care covered by taxpayers w some wait times

Unproven cutting edge care not covered. Cosmetic not covered, vanity procedures not covered. Labor & delivery via midwife; no elective c sections

Age dependent guidelines for high risk, costly procedures with inconsistent outcomes.


If you want someone more, most white collar employers also offer private health insurance and those systems and sites are large and plentiful. So 20% per employee for NHS, split 50/50 employer and employee, and 10% if you want private insurance as well.

100% of white collar workers in London have both. Hence a FTE is very costly and growth in hiring is slow and low.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You always go to an ER with a broken bone. They set it and refer you to an ortho. My kids seem to always break things on weekends, so that’s been my experience.

Oh brother.

The very fact that we are having a conversation about whether one should go to an ER with a literal broken bone is a sign of how broken our system is.

We don’t have to live this way. Healthcare can exist FOR us.

Anyone with kids goes to PM pediatrics for fractures and potential breaks, or the Orthopedist urgimed in Court Square. Once in awhile you have to go wait 2-5 hours in Children’s Hospital. The orthopedist’s by Rockledge drive can get you day off, there huge and use 20% of their slots for walk-ins.

ER is used by two types: those with No insurance who don’t pay the bill; those with $200 copays who use it properly or like an urgimed.

I assume this is all the same person. I was told by an orthopedist not to do to urgent care for a ray’s because they have cheap machines and the scans won’t show all broken bones. If it’s night or a weekend we got it the ER. We have a $50 ER copay with CareFirst.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

I think most people agree that healthcare is a human right but the rub is deciding how much healthcare and what kind of healthcare that is?

The question is, how do we make sure those decisions are made by people for whom health care is care, rather than those for whom it is first and foremost a financial investment whose value must by definition grow?

Not sure but imo shooting strangers in the back should play no role.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

People here don’t know how 20% down payments on a $900,000 property work either.

His parents have a real estate empire. They gave him this property, likely one they owned, as a gift. They didn't give it as "here's a property with 200k equity, the mortgage payments start June 1st. You're welcome." It's safe to assume he owned the place outright to do what he wanted to with it. It sold for 900k so he pocketed whatever 900 minus transaction fees were. Let's be totally outrageous and say those were 200k, he left with 700k and that was his funding. He's from a wealthy family in real estate, this is not an unusual gift for a 20 something kid from their parents.

Some local multi family homes in Baltimore = a real estate empire?!?

Gawd.

Glad you never met any intl students at college who really did own family empires.

Owing 2 golf course resorts, a radio station, and a dozen nursing homes is a bit more than "local multi family homes"

That was all underpriced stuff decades ago. BFD
Nothing is costly in dangerous Balto except the gated communities where the ravens players live .

You have no idea. They have more money than you’ll ever have in 100 lifetimes.

I’m from there. They’re well off but they’re not a tech bro or Bloomberg with a $1B+++ family office and foundation. Get a grip.

The grandparents and parents parked some money long ago in land and real estate and then daisy chained properties together. Good for them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

I think most people agree that healthcare is a human right but the rub is deciding how much healthcare and what kind of healthcare that is?

The question is, how do we make sure those decisions are made by people for whom health care is care, rather than those for whom it is first and foremost a financial investment whose value must by definition grow?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

People here don’t know how 20% down payments on a $900,000 property work either.

His parents have a real estate empire. They gave him this property, likely one they owned, as a gift. They didn't give it as "here's a property with 200k equity, the mortgage payments start June 1st. You're welcome." It's safe to assume he owned the place outright to do what he wanted to with it. It sold for 900k so he pocketed whatever 900 minus transaction fees were. Let's be totally outrageous and say those were 200k, he left with 700k and that was his funding. He's from a wealthy family in real estate, this is not an unusual gift for a 20 something kid from their parents.

Some local multi family homes in Baltimore = a real estate empire?!?

Gawd.

Glad you never met any intl students at college who really did own family empires.

Owing 2 golf course resorts, a radio station, and a dozen nursing homes is a bit more than "local multi family homes"

That was all underpriced stuff decades ago. BFD
Nothing is costly in dangerous Balto except the gated communities where the ravens players live .

You have no idea. They have more money than you’ll ever have in 100 lifetimes.

I didn’t catch that, what is their net worth?
After you take whatever commercial properties they have and net out the leverage.
I know mine, then can compare.
Owning local multifam and retail is very old country. Only place it park money and make passive income in many parts of the world when less developed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

People here don’t know how 20% down payments on a $900,000 property work either.

His parents have a real estate empire. They gave him this property, likely one they owned, as a gift. They didn't give it as "here's a property with 200k equity, the mortgage payments start June 1st. You're welcome." It's safe to assume he owned the place outright to do what he wanted to with it. It sold for 900k so he pocketed whatever 900 minus transaction fees were. Let's be totally outrageous and say those were 200k, he left with 700k and that was his funding. He's from a wealthy family in real estate, this is not an unusual gift for a 20 something kid from their parents.

Some local multi family homes in Baltimore = a real estate empire?!?

Gawd.

Glad you never met any intl students at college who really did own family empires.

Owing 2 golf course resorts, a radio station, and a dozen nursing homes is a bit more than "local multi family homes"

That was all underpriced stuff decades ago. BFD
Nothing is costly in dangerous Balto except the gated communities where the ravens players live .

You have no idea. They have more money than you’ll ever have in 100 lifetimes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor little rich boy (who appears to have issue been salty about a lot more than insurance companies.) gee, maybe we shouldn’t valorize premeditated murder?

Why would him being rich change anyone’s opinion about the CEO and United Healthcare’s business practices?

NP here. Well learning that his parents made their fortune from assisted living facilities, it’s like pick your poison. Do I screw over people via health insurance or do I screw over elderly and disabled people who have dementia, Alzheimer’s, etc and milk their families dry.

Yeah, neither family has clean hands here. Not saying it justifies murder but the hypocrisy is stunning. He’s no Robin Hood.

He is a separate individual from his parents, no? Furthermore, he sounds like he was estranged from them. Even if he wasn’t, children should not be responsible for their parents’ sins.

He could have killed his own dad to make his point. But, no, he killed other kids’ dad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

I think most people agree that healthcare is a human right but the rub is deciding how much healthcare and what kind of healthcare that is?

Anonymous wrote:On Reddit they published the number where one could send money to his jailhouse account and apparently donations are adding up.

If these people really cared, they’d use that money to help someone pay down their medical debt but they are fools and just want to celebrate some so called folk hero.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You always go to an ER with a broken bone. They set it and refer you to an ortho. My kids seem to always break things on weekends, so that’s been my experience.

Oh brother.

The very fact that we are having a conversation about whether one should go to an ER with a literal broken bone is a sign of how broken our system is.

We don’t have to live this way. Healthcare can exist FOR us.

Anyone with kids goes to PM pediatrics for fractures and potential breaks, or the Orthopedist urgimed in Court Square. Once in awhile you have to go wait 2-5 hours in Children’s Hospital. The orthopedist’s by Rockledge drive can get you day off, there huge and use 20% of their slots for walk-ins.

ER is used by two types: those with No insurance who don’t pay the bill; those with $200 copays who use it properly or like an urgimed.

I can’t help but compare this to someone murdering an individual who physically hurt a child or other loved one. Based on what I have read I have more sympathy for Mangione and his family and the whole insider trading stock dump definitely doesn’t help things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You always go to an ER with a broken bone. They set it and refer you to an ortho. My kids seem to always break things on weekends, so that’s been my experience.

Oh brother.

The very fact that we are having a conversation about whether one should go to an ER with a literal broken bone is a sign of how broken our system is.

We don’t have to live this way. Healthcare can exist FOR us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

That’s because we eat poison. Whose fault is that?