Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

Well the fact so much of the population is obese, can’t afford to have kids until their fertility is declining, and need psych meds to function, evidences some societal failures that we aren’t going to “personal responsibility” our way out of. And unsurprisingly the hormone disrupters in the products we use, unhealthy changes to our food supply, and lack of family supports (e.g. paid parental leave) are brought to us courtesy of companies trying to increase their shareholder value.

Also, your post complete ignores the fact that anyone can become disabled or have an expensive accident that causes significant medical bills. Someone is going to have a baby in the NICU. Someone is going to have a bad fall. Someone is going to get cancer despite a healthy diet and working out. Someone is going to need medication to manage their health conditions. Insurance companies are supposed to be there for this when this happens after paying all our premiums.

We could absolutely have better coverage if we spent money on patients instead of allowing year over year record profits.

My take, too. The system isn't working for most people.

I agree with most of what PP is saying but the profits aren’t really the issue. UHC’s profits have been in the 5-6% range. So it could eliminate all its profits and still only provide 6% more care.
A non profit model doesn’t seem to be the solution — UPMC is a non profit and its CEO got an 8M bonus last year.

I think a big part of the problem is that we’ve had totally miraculous medical advances in the last 20 years. I know people with plain old ordinary health insurance getting gene therapy, biological treatments for autoimmune conditions, nerve blocking injections for pain, and bioengineered artificial skin transplants. All of which would have been sci fi just a decade or so ago. Insurance companies used to limit their cost by excluding the high priced participants, but they aren’t allowed to do that anymore so instead they try to come up with creative cost controls built around bureaucratic gate keeping. Which drives up costs even more as providers hire staff to deal with the bureaucracy. We need some sort of better national consensus on whether we are willing to pay for for health care or limit care more. I don’t think even a government health care system would solve the problem at this point, even if Americans were willing to move to that system, which it doesn’t seem like they want to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

Thank you PP, that was an interesting read. As new drugs are developed for diseases that are not common yet cause significant disease burden or death (i.e. spinal muscular atrophy, sickle cell disease, etc.) that literally cost millions per DOSE, it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

Right but everyone is blaming the insurers instead of the biotech and pharma companies for the inflated prices. Apparently the insurers should just pay them whatever they ask.

Also don’t work in insurance, HR actually.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

I get it money, makes the world go around it is what it is. But health insurance companies should not be publicly traded and should be as doctor/patient focused as possible. The responsibility to the shareholders cannot outweigh the responsibility to the customers who need the care.

What about a responsibility to their customers to keep premiums down?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

Perhaps there are people who are defending insurance companies and that guys salary but I’m not-and I’m also not defending shooting people in the back either.

Maybe it’s comfortable to think everyone you consider right thinking approves of murder if the person is really despicable but it’s not true. By the way-I’m a physician with a lot more experience with and reason to be furious about insurance companies than most posters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Murder without rational motive is typically due to mental illness. This CEO didn’t even know him or affect him personally

Or cults and indoctrination. Luigi thinks what he did was warranted and necessary, and will save the world.

I don’t think he is mentally ill unless doing a few too many shrooms is mental illness. He probably is getting an astronomical amount of prison fan mail so he probably won’t feel like he did a bad thing. His manifesto and writings are extremely clear. He probably thinks of himself as some special revolutionary who stuck it to the man.

Is he going to be able to send letters out of prison? If so, I think the circus show is just beginning.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

I get it money, makes the world go around it is what it is. But health insurance companies should not be publicly traded and should be as doctor/patient focused as possible. The responsibility to the shareholders cannot outweigh the responsibility to the customers who need the care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

Well the fact so much of the population is obese, can’t afford to have kids until their fertility is declining, and need psych meds to function, evidences some societal failures that we aren’t going to “personal responsibility” our way out of. And unsurprisingly the hormone disrupters in the products we use, unhealthy changes to our food supply, and lack of family supports (e.g. paid parental leave) are brought to us courtesy of companies trying to increase their shareholder value.

Also, your post complete ignores the fact that anyone can become disabled or have an expensive accident that causes significant medical bills. Someone is going to have a baby in the NICU. Someone is going to have a bad fall. Someone is going to get cancer despite a healthy diet and working out. Someone is going to need medication to manage their health conditions. Insurance companies are supposed to be there for this when this happens after paying all our premiums.

We could absolutely have better coverage if we spent money on patients instead of allowing year over year record profits.

My take, too. The system isn't working for most people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Murder without rational motive is typically due to mental illness. This CEO didn’t even know him or affect him personally

Or cults and indoctrination. Luigi thinks what he did was warranted and necessary, and will save the world.

I don’t think he is mentally ill unless doing a few too many shrooms is mental illness. He probably is getting an astronomical amount of prison fan mail so he probably won’t feel like he did a bad thing. His manifesto and writings are extremely clear. He probably thinks of himself as some special revolutionary who stuck it to the man.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Murder without rational motive is typically due to mental illness. This CEO didn’t even know him or affect him personally

Or cults and indoctrination. Luigi thinks what he did was warranted and necessary, and will save the world.

I don’t think he is mentally ill unless doing a few too many shrooms is mental illness. He probably is getting an astronomical amount of prison fan mail so he probably won’t feel like he did a bad thing. His manifesto and writings are extremely clear. He probably thinks of himself as some special revolutionary who stuck it to the man.

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

You always go to an ER with a broken bone. They set it and refer you to an ortho. My kids seem to always break things on weekends, so that’s been my experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How ironic. Even the $60,000 reward offer might get denied!

https://nypost.com/2024/12/11/us-news/who-gets-the-60k-reward-in-search-for-unitedhealthcare-ceos-killer/

Once the word gets out that you won’t really be paid, people won’t be as helpful.

That article is click bait. The caller will probably (and should) get the reward. It just doesn’t happen overnight.

He shoulda got it to go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

Sure, UHC is doing us all a favor by charging us ever increasing premiums and then refusing to pay out.

If this is the best talking point the insurance industry can ciome up with, no wonder their share prices are getting decimated.

See how much you’d be paying without insurance involved. All you people seem to think that $20K is a reasonable cost for a broken leg in the ER and insurance should just pay it are the problem. We are a nation of spoiled, poorly educated children.

What dummy is going to the ER room and not an orthopedist for a broken leg.

And no, it wouldn’t be $20k at an ER room to set a leg cast after X-rays. Stop wasting their time and our time with your nonsense

I've had 3 broken bones in the last 18 years. One was actually 4 breaks (wrist). I went to the ER each time. You get ortho referral and see ortho later. The last one was my leg (fell off ladder, same as what did my wrist but this time on a wood floor instead of a cast iron/porcelain clawfoot bathtub--those suckers are dangerous!). I don't even remember if I saw ortho after (may have just been a very routine check)--it as a very simple fracture, top of tibia, they gave me a big ol wrap brace at the ER and I was gtg.

I found out there is a ortho urgent care, never heard of that.