Anonymous
03/18/2022 22:08
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Erdogan had a phone call with Putin and these are his 4 demands for a cease fire:
• Ukraine to be neutral, no NATO membership
• Disarmament
• De-Nazification
• Zelensky agreeing negotiations on Donbas with Putin
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1504793432052666368?s=20&t=Ehjiem5GqGA2cbUTX-kfdg
I guess no one has the guts to tell the Big Guy he's losing.
This is easy enough to do. Both save face.
1 is easy, wouldn’t have happened anyway
2 means no foreign military bases in the country. It can keep its army.
3 can be a meaningless ritual like a decree banning nazi ideology and display or smth
4 is de facto reality, just needs documentation
Done.
Zelensky doesn't need to save face. He's done NOTHING to provoke this. Putin has gotten himself so backed into a corner, he will never be able to step away. And if he did, it'd only be a matter of time until he pulled this stunt again. When will some of you understand you CANNOT appease someone like Putin (or Trump).
The only off-ramp is a fresh pair of underwear for Putin.
Yes it’s very easy to say someone else’s children should fight till the last drop of their blood.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 22:07
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Erdogan had a phone call with Putin and these are his 4 demands for a cease fire:
• Ukraine to be neutral, no NATO membership
• Disarmament
• De-Nazification
• Zelensky agreeing negotiations on Donbas with Putin
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1504793432052666368?s=20&t=Ehjiem5GqGA2cbUTX-kfdg
I guess no one has the guts to tell the Big Guy he's losing.
This is easy enough to do. Both save face.
1 is easy, wouldn’t have happened anyway
2 means no foreign military bases in the country. It can keep its army.
3 can be a meaningless ritual like a decree banning nazi ideology and display or smth
4 is de facto reality, just needs documentation
Done.
Zelensky doesn't need to save face. He's done NOTHING to provoke this. Putin has gotten himself so backed into a corner, he will never be able to step away. And if he did, it'd only be a matter of time until he pulled this stunt again. When will some of you understand you CANNOT appease someone like Putin (or Trump).
The only off-ramp is a fresh pair of underwear for Putin.
Zelensky doesn’t need to save face, true, but the sooner peace comes, the better for him.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 22:06
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Erdogan had a phone call with Putin and these are his 4 demands for a cease fire:
• Ukraine to be neutral, no NATO membership
• Disarmament
• De-Nazification
• Zelensky agreeing negotiations on Donbas with Putin
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1504793432052666368?s=20&t=Ehjiem5GqGA2cbUTX-kfdg
I guess no one has the guts to tell the Big Guy he's losing.
This is easy enough to do. Both save face.
1 is easy, wouldn’t have happened anyway
2 means no foreign military bases in the country. It can keep its army.
3 can be a meaningless ritual like a decree banning nazi ideology and display or smth
4 is de facto reality, just needs documentation
Done.
Russia also wants Ukraine to recognize Crimea as part of Russia, which Ukraine understandably *really* does not want to do.
Crimea is gone. Zelensky knows it’s gone.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 22:01
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Erdogan had a phone call with Putin and these are his 4 demands for a cease fire:
• Ukraine to be neutral, no NATO membership
• Disarmament
• De-Nazification
• Zelensky agreeing negotiations on Donbas with Putin
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1504793432052666368?s=20&t=Ehjiem5GqGA2cbUTX-kfdg
I guess no one has the guts to tell the Big Guy he's losing.
This is easy enough to do. Both save face.
1 is easy, wouldn’t have happened anyway
2 means no foreign military bases in the country. It can keep its army.
3 can be a meaningless ritual like a decree banning nazi ideology and display or smth
4 is de facto reality, just needs documentation
Done.
Zelensky doesn't need to save face. He's done NOTHING to provoke this. Putin has gotten himself so backed into a corner, he will never be able to step away. And if he did, it'd only be a matter of time until he pulled this stunt again. When will some of you understand you CANNOT appease someone like Putin (or Trump).
The only off-ramp is a fresh pair of underwear for Putin.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 21:42
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Erdogan had a phone call with Putin and these are his 4 demands for a cease fire:
• Ukraine to be neutral, no NATO membership
• Disarmament
• De-Nazification
• Zelensky agreeing negotiations on Donbas with Putin
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1504793432052666368?s=20&t=Ehjiem5GqGA2cbUTX-kfdg
I guess no one has the guts to tell the Big Guy he's losing.
This is easy enough to do. Both save face.
1 is easy, wouldn’t have happened anyway
2 means no foreign military bases in the country. It can keep its army.
3 can be a meaningless ritual like a decree banning nazi ideology and display or smth
4 is de facto reality, just needs documentation
Done.
Russia also wants Ukraine to recognize Crimea as part of Russia, which Ukraine understandably *really* does not want to do.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 21:41
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Erdogan had a phone call with Putin and these are his 4 demands for a cease fire:
• Ukraine to be neutral, no NATO membership
• Disarmament
• De-Nazification
• Zelensky agreeing negotiations on Donbas with Putin
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1504793432052666368?s=20&t=Ehjiem5GqGA2cbUTX-kfdg
I guess no one has the guts to tell the Big Guy he's losing.
This is easy enough to do. Both save face.
1 is easy, wouldn’t have happened anyway
2 means no foreign military bases in the country. It can keep its army.
3 can be a meaningless ritual like a decree banning nazi ideology and display or smth
4 is de facto reality, just needs documentation
Done.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 21:20
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
The USSR provided all SSR’s as separate entities from Russia. The USSR’s constitution was among other things, the most liberal in the history of the world for most of its history. Anyone who isn’t a simpleton understands that the constitution of the USSR wasn’t worth the toilet paper it was printed on.
And India and the Philippines were considered “Western”, not owned by the US. Stop playing this game child, you’re not good at it.
And India and the Philippines were considered “Western”, not owned by the US. Stop playing this game child, you’re not good at it.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 21:17
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Ukraine was one of the founding members of the United Nations when it joined in 1945 as the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic.
Read about why that is. It’s because the USSR objected to the US wanting two of its territories at the time to be considered separate members. The USSR didn’t like that doing that would essentially pad the US’s votes, so it requested that two SSRs be given separate votes as well. That’s why the Ukrainian and Belorussian SSRs are listed as separate founding members from the USSR. Note that other SSRs, like Georgia, are not.
Um no. Those two "territories" are called India and the Philippines.
You can't play both sides of the game. Ukraine was considered a separate entity from Russia under both the constitution of the USSR and the founding charter of the UN.
It wasn’t. You’re ignorant of the history.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 20:58
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Ukraine was one of the founding members of the United Nations when it joined in 1945 as the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic.
Read about why that is. It’s because the USSR objected to the US wanting two of its territories at the time to be considered separate members. The USSR didn’t like that doing that would essentially pad the US’s votes, so it requested that two SSRs be given separate votes as well. That’s why the Ukrainian and Belorussian SSRs are listed as separate founding members from the USSR. Note that other SSRs, like Georgia, are not.
Um no. Those two "territories" are called India and the Philippines.
You can't play both sides of the game. Ukraine was considered a separate entity from Russia under both the constitution of the USSR and the founding charter of the UN.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 20:47
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Irrelevant.
Putin is a war criminal. We now have ample evidence of his ongoing crimes committed on Ukrainian soil.
He must surrender and travel to The Hague to face trial.
How’s life in fantasy land? If Putin ends up at The Hague, I’ll give you all the money in my bank account.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 20:44
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Irrelevant.
Putin is a war criminal. We now have ample evidence of his ongoing crimes committed on Ukrainian soil.
He must surrender and travel to The Hague to face trial.
Putin is a war criminal. We now have ample evidence of his ongoing crimes committed on Ukrainian soil.
He must surrender and travel to The Hague to face trial.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 18:04
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Ukraine was one of the founding members of the United Nations when it joined in 1945 as the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic.
Read about why that is. It’s because the USSR objected to the US wanting two of its territories at the time to be considered separate members. The USSR didn’t like that doing that would essentially pad the US’s votes, so it requested that two SSRs be given separate votes as well. That’s why the Ukrainian and Belorussian SSRs are listed as separate founding members from the USSR. Note that other SSRs, like Georgia, are not.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 18:03
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:
Name two.
With regards to Ukraine, in 1994 Russia acknowledged Ukraine as a sovereign nation and promised to respect its borders.
I'm not sure what type of examples you want me to cite. I'll cite a few more specific situations, but I'm looking for the general principles to guide one's thinking on break-away regions. Here are some examples to consider:
1. Was it legal for King George to wage war on the colonies after they declared their independence?
2. Was it legal for Lincoln to wage war on the south after it voted to leave the union?
3. Was it legal for Serbia to wage war in an effort to hold onto Kosovo?
International laws regarding war were probably not the same (or didn't exist) at the time of King George and Lincoln. These rules (and the court at The Hague) did not exist until 1945. WW2 and the nuclear bomb made these rules necessary. The world has changed.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 18:01
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
I appreciate all the PPs working so hard to make this conversation happen.
At the least, it's worth a laugh.
At the least, it's worth a laugh.
Anonymous
03/18/2022 17:22
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
By this logic the US, UK, etc had no legal right to fight WW2.