Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

People here don’t know how 20% down payments on a $900,000 property work either.

His parents have a real estate empire. They gave him this property, likely one they owned, as a gift. They didn't give it as "here's a property with 200k equity, the mortgage payments start June 1st. You're welcome." It's safe to assume he owned the place outright to do what he wanted to with it. It sold for 900k so he pocketed whatever 900 minus transaction fees were. Let's be totally outrageous and say those were 200k, he left with 700k and that was his funding. He's from a wealthy family in real estate, this is not an unusual gift for a 20 something kid from their parents.

Missed the part where you know where the property was based and how they purchased it. Or what it even was.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Luigi Mangione grew up in the conservative, conformist, successful community in Baltimore.

Then was tossed into the leftist, activist era of COVID / DEI / BLM when he attended and graduated U Penn.

One activist female professor at UPenn has already deactivated her 10 years of website and blogs with her indoctrination.

Luigi then doubled down on the brainwashing in Cali, Hawaii and online.

And here we are. Killing people walking on the sidewalk in Manhattan.

Stop trying to make this a right vs a left wing issue.

Indoctrination is indoctrination.

We live in Baltimore, that was a conservative successful community. He came from that. Lived in a vastly different environment (shout out to everyone with college kids now or the last 6 years - it's been nuts), and worked in a vastly different environment.

Luigi came in malleable and became a product of his Upenn, SF and Hawaii group home environment and lifestyle, as well as his online environment.

Sounds to me you have been indoctrinated with right wing talking points.

Have you been under a rock since 2019?

Go back and read the news archives.

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

You want them to get shot too, che?

Anonymous wrote:How ironic. Even the $60,000 reward offer might get denied!

https://nypost.com/2024/12/11/us-news/who-gets-the-60k-reward-in-search-for-unitedhealthcare-ceos-killer/

Wouldn't surprise me if the McDonald's tip thing is fake and they actually quickly found out who he was via some creepy cyber Patriot Act / NSA / Palantir method and nabbed him when he logged onto the wi-fi via device(s) they were tracking. Who freakin' knows!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

Thank you PP, that was an interesting read. As new drugs are developed for diseases that are not common yet cause significant disease burden or death (i.e. spinal muscular atrophy, sickle cell disease, etc.) that literally cost millions per DOSE, it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

And gene therapy. The most expensive drug on the market is gene therapy for hemophilia. It is 3.2 million. But considering hemophilia is one the most expensive conditions to treat, at about 300-400k per yr, just for medicine, not including injury, hospitalization, bleeding episodes, etc. and it is a lifelong disease, maybe insurance would cover. They’d actually save a lot of money

Anonymous wrote:This 100%. Plus all the expenses for the kids who have issues due to stressful childhoods and unreasonably societal expectations.

“People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable..”

I think, though, that when changes affecting health status affect very large populations (not just in the US) you can't just say it's individual people and their decisions. Consider the opioid crisis. Decades ago it was routine to give people narcotics after things like wisdom tooth extraction. But specific factors drove the development of the explosion in addictions, among them the marketing of oxycontin as a non-addictive drug (I think oxycodone may have also been marketed as non-addictive, but definitely that was the case with oxycontin. Emphasis on pain as a vital sign and promoting pain assessment are also regarded as factors by many doctors (I'm not sure if there was pressure at the time to make people pain free as opposed to reducing pain levels to manageable symptoms).

With obesity it's sedentary jobs--3 million low-paid workers are chained to computers in call centers--they HAVE to be available for inbound calls all the time. There's no getting up from your desk and taking a quick walk break (I worked in one where you were required to get supervisor permission to leave to use the restroom). The food processing industry, reducing fats but adding sugars like corn syrup, all the things that have been done to drive sales (when they invented New Coke, part of the idea was that people took longer to drink the original version).

I don't think it's so much that people expect to make it to 100 in good health--the people who do have some combination of good genes and a lifestyle that tends to promote longevity. But a lot of people are sick for many, many years in their old age. My mom was on dialysis from age 83 to 87 (no diabetes, kidney failure from artery disease). She could not live by herself and fortunately family was able to care for her. She enjoyed her bingo games and they managed a few road trips for family reunions and to visit old friends and relatives. Her dad, on the other hand, had his kidneys fail over the course of a few months one summer (he was also 87). Dialysis was not an option: this was 1974, a year after Medicare started covering dialysis, but you had to be under 65. You also could not have a "systemic disease" (how you could have kidney failure without systemic disease is something I have no clue about)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

Sure, UHC is doing us all a favor by charging us ever increasing premiums and then refusing to pay out.

If this is the best talking point the insurance industry can ciome up with, no wonder their share prices are getting decimated.

See how much you’d be paying without insurance involved. All you people seem to think that $20K is a reasonable cost for a broken leg in the ER and insurance should just pay it are the problem. We are a nation of spoiled, poorly educated children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

If the insurers aren't overcharging then they can stop lying about what coverage they provide.

Anonymous wrote:The other manifesto that was circulating was fake. This is the full text of his manifesto:

“To the Feds, I'll keep this short, because I do respect what you do for our country. To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't working with anyone. This was fairly trivial: some elementary social engineering, basic CAD, a lot of patience. The spiral notebook, if present, has some straggling notes and To Do lists that illuminate the gist of it. My tech is pretty locked down because I work in engineering so probably not much info there. I do apologize for any strife of traumas but it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy. United is the [indecipherable] largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart. It has grown and grown, but as our life expectancy? No the reality is, these [indecipherable] have simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allwed them to get away with it. Obviously the problem is more complex, but I do not have space, and frankly I do not pretend to be the most qualified person to lay out the full argument. But many have illuminated the corruption and greed (e.g.: Rosenthal, Moore), decades ago and the problems simply remain. It is not an issue of awareness at this point, but clearly power games at play. Evidently I am the first to face it with such brutal honesty.”

Thank you - it does seem to be the real thing (you had it before the MSM - how?)
https://www.newsweek.com/luigi-mangione-manifesto-full-document-1998945

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

Sure, UHC is doing us all a favor by charging us ever increasing premiums and then refusing to pay out.

If this is the best talking point the insurance industry can ciome up with, no wonder their share prices are getting decimated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

This is a false statement, as is the claim that I don't understand how complex the health system is (I do, in fact -- but thanks for the link).

I don't actually care if you believe me. You can choose be curious about people's experiences, and you can ask questions that broaden your worldview, or you can decide that everyone with a complaint against their insurer must by definition be ill-informed and filled with unreasonable expectations, and that a vanishingly small number of denied claims are, in fact, unfair.

Seems like you've made your choice. Meanwhile, reality keeps doing its thing. Have a great night.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

People here don’t know how 20% down payments on a $900,000 property work either.

His parents have a real estate empire. They gave him this property, likely one they owned, as a gift. They didn't give it as "here's a property with 200k equity, the mortgage payments start June 1st. You're welcome." It's safe to assume he owned the place outright to do what he wanted to with it. It sold for 900k so he pocketed whatever 900 minus transaction fees were. Let's be totally outrageous and say those were 200k, he left with 700k and that was his funding. He's from a wealthy family in real estate, this is not an unusual gift for a 20 something kid from their parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Luigi Mangione grew up in the conservative, conformist, successful community in Baltimore.

Then was tossed into the leftist, activist era of COVID / DEI / BLM when he attended and graduated U Penn.

One activist female professor at UPenn has already deactivated her 10 years of website and blogs with her indoctrination.

Luigi then doubled down on the brainwashing in Cali, Hawaii and online.

And here we are. Killing people walking on the sidewalk in Manhattan.

Stop trying to make this a right vs a left wing issue.

Indoctrination is indoctrination.

We live in Baltimore, that was a conservative successful community. He came from that. Lived in a vastly different environment (shout out to everyone with college kids now or the last 6 years - it's been nuts), and worked in a vastly different environment.

Luigi came in malleable and became a product of his Upenn, SF and Hawaii group home environment and lifestyle, as well as his online environment.

Sounds to me you have been indoctrinated with right wing talking points.

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Lol!!!!! So funny!!!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How ironic. Even the $60,000 reward offer might get denied!

https://nypost.com/2024/12/11/us-news/who-gets-the-60k-reward-in-search-for-unitedhealthcare-ceos-killer/

Once the word gets out that you won’t really be paid, people won’t be as helpful.

That article is click bait. The caller will probably (and should) get the reward. It just doesn’t happen overnight.