Anonymous wrote:Large, well-known universities**. Possibly there are local universities where professors don't teach classes and TA's do, but even then I find it somewhat hard to believe. Perhaps graduate students in their last year of research at the university might teach a whole class.

Anonymous wrote:My DS is having a tough time deciding between WM and VT & UVA. We were planning to visit VT and UVA before everything went virtual. He liked WM but is concerned it may too serious and boring. None of his friends applied to WM.

W&M is definitely very serious. A lot of students want to go to medical/law/business/graduate school so a lot of people care about their grades. You won't find this at other universities where people simply don't care about grades.
Grading in the humanities and essay-grading is going to be somewhat more harsh than UVA/VT. There is no big-time sports culture

W&M has its advantages over UVA/VT, but I think for many public school kids (especially male) whose conception of college is huge stadium sports, huge block parties, buzzing college towns, W&M is very disappointing.
For example, UVA, Michgian, Berkeley have these attributes while having as good academics (possibly less so in humanities/government/IR) without being like how W&M. It's very much a liberal arts college.

Anonymous wrote:He is a Business major and unsure what he wants to do career wise or if he will attend graduate school. He has excellent grades and has played Varsity sports. He is a serious student who also enjoys having a balanced social life. W&M is attractive to him because he attends a private school where there is small class sizes and great interaction with professors. I think he is afraid of W&M being all study and no fun and I am not sure if he is a fraternity type. I don't think he needs the fandom of UVA/VT but would like to attend sporting events to support his school.

W&M is the only college he is visited and he has done the virtual tour of UVA and VT. He likes the school spirit but has never stepped foot on either campus to see if the size or environment is a fit.

Anonymous wrote:My DS cares a lot about academics and is very focused. He also enjoys sports and a somewhat fun social scene. He doesn't need big parties or football games but he would like to have a college where there is some school spirit and fun. His concern from what he has heard from many students is WM is very serious with little to no fun. I think that is why none of his friends have applied and only considering VT/UVA. He is prepared to work very hard but wants to attend a college that can also provide a fun atmosphere.

Anonymous wrote:My DS is having a tough time deciding between WM and VT & UVA. We were planning to visit VT and UVA before everything went virtual. He liked WM but is concerned it may too serious and boring. None of his friends applied to WM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is strongly considering W&M and likes the size, teacher/student ratio and the good things he has heard about the Business school. His only concern is that he has heard there is little to do outside of studying and that Williamsburg is very boring for college students. He has heard great things about the school spirit at UVA and VT. He wants a good balance of academics/social life.

There is indeed very little to do outside of campus in the college town itself, but there is indeed a frat scene with ~35% in frats/sororities. But don't expect anything to be set around the town itself (i.e. no movie theaters/concerts/clubs etc.). Mostly house parties.
There is school spirit but its a different kind from VT and UVA. It's not based around sports, its more of what you might expect at a private liberal arts school.
Some kids do seem to outright hate the school initially though; there are a lot of male students that did not get into their first choice of UVA who come to W&M and would much prefer the environment of UVA i.e. large population, big-time sports, huge frat scene, undergrad business school, Charlottesville.

The outright best part of W&M is their humanities, government, and related majors i.e. international relations. The small class size, generally 20-30 students per class in even freshman classes, is very good and necessary for those types of majors because it allows class discussions, and the professors in those majors are generally great and come from great schools. I would say this is a huge advantage that W&M has over UVA, VT and other top public universities.

Majors like Economics are not as good and you don't need small class size for those types of majors. Not much course choice. Computer Science major is extremely mediocre.

UVA business school is probably better than W&M's and certainly has more prestigious employers i.e. investment banks, top management consulting firms recruiting that W&M doesn't have.

When my DS was deciding which school to attend, he went to all the admitted student events. He "interviewed" current students he knew at the school to get the real scoop on student life. I remember when we talked to the UVA student (who he knew from high school.) He told us that many of his classes had over 100 students and he was a junior.

My DS is a sophomore at W&M and has only had one class with 100 students - it was Psychology 101 (that's not the numbering system W&M uses, but it was the entry level Psych class.) And every single one of his classes has been taught by a professor, not a grad student/TA. He took a calculus class and had a grad student in the lab portion of the class, but the actual class was taught by a professor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is strongly considering W&M and likes the size, teacher/student ratio and the good things he has heard about the Business school. His only concern is that he has heard there is little to do outside of studying and that Williamsburg is very boring for college students. He has heard great things about the school spirit at UVA and VT. He wants a good balance of academics/social life.

There is indeed very little to do outside of campus in the college town itself, but there is indeed a frat scene with ~35% in frats/sororities. But don't expect anything to be set around the town itself (i.e. no movie theaters/concerts/clubs etc.). Mostly house parties.
There is school spirit but its a different kind from VT and UVA. It's not based around sports, its more of what you might expect at a private liberal arts school.
Some kids do seem to outright hate the school initially though; there are a lot of male students that did not get into their first choice of UVA who come to W&M and would much prefer the environment of UVA i.e. large population, big-time sports, huge frat scene, undergrad business school, Charlottesville.

The outright best part of W&M is their humanities, government, and related majors i.e. international relations. The small class size, generally 20-30 students per class in even freshman classes, is very good and necessary for those types of majors because it allows class discussions, and the professors in those majors are generally great and come from great schools. I would say this is a huge advantage that W&M has over UVA, VT and other top public universities.

Majors like Economics are not as good and you don't need small class size for those types of majors. Not much course choice. Computer Science major is extremely mediocre.

UVA business school is probably better than W&M's and certainly has more prestigious employers i.e. investment banks, top management consulting firms recruiting that W&M doesn't have.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But no where have I said that W&M have unhappy alumni. I simply refuted the statement that because W&M is on the top of the list on alumni giving for public universities, that ergo they must have happy alumni. I pointed to factors such as W&M's size and wealth student population that leads it to have a high giving rate over other publics.

You refuted nothing. It is evidence of likely alumni satisfaction. If you had to bet your life on whether the school at the top of the alumni giving percentage list has higher alumni satisfaction or the school at the top of the alumni giving percentage list has higher alumni satisfaction, which would you pick? If you are being honest, I think you would pick the school at the top. Why? Because it is evidence of likely alumni satisfaction, and the vast majority of people would see it that way as well.

This is what USNWR says about it: Alumni giving rate average: The nonweighted mean percentage of undergraduate alumni of record who donated money to the college or university. The percentage of alumni giving serves as a proxy for how satisfied students are with the school.

You can also find research that shows there is a correlation between satisfaction and giving rate. For instance, Ruffalo Noel Levitz, the firm that does graduate surveys for universities.

No, I refuted exactly what I said I refuted.
No, I would not bet my life on whether a school at the top of alumni giving also has most satisfied alumni. Too noisy an indicator.
However, if I had to bet out of a set of universities which universities had the highest percentage of alumni giving, I would choose the one that was the smallest in size and also had the wealthiest students.
What USNWR says does not matter. They are only giving justification for why they use alumni giving in their ranking. In reality, it only serves to keep the Ivies at the top; as the editor said once, "the ranking is true because Harvard is #1 in the ranking". You would need a legitimate study proving that alumni giving is heavily correlated with college satisfaction to prove what you are claiming, not what some random guy at USNWR says

Anonymous wrote:Two thoughts:

1) A poster keeps suggesting that alumni giving is related to wealth of parents. Alumni giving is from the alum, not the parents. Unless the thought it that the parents are giving the $$ to the alum to donate? Not sure about that conclusion.

2) The complaints about the area surrounding W&M are odd, to me. I didn’t have money to go out anywhere when I was in college, and neither does my kid (at W&M). He is in college. I would expect most of his activities, dining and social, would be on campus, as they are, because he has no money to do anything off campus- no matter what school he attended.

1) Children of wealthy parents go on to be wealthy themselves due to connections, going business/medical/law/graduate school that non-wealthy students may not be able to afford, et. al. Furthermore you are more likely to give to the school if you did not have to struggle to pay for it. Furthermore you are more likely to give to the school if you did not have to take out loans to pay for it. That's why schools with a wealthy student population will have more alumni giving. Also it is partially true that some parents will give to the school in their children's name while/after the student attends the school.

2) The complaints about the surrounding area is specifically that the surrounding area is very expensive, with prices inflated by tourists and wealthy retirees. Therefore the students can't afford them. Most college towns are cheap places to live. Most activities of students are definitely not on campus unless you expect students to be cooped up in their dorms for four years - this is why college towns exist and have a constant buzz and excitement around them - they are lively. Now perhaps at W&M certainly many students do end up spending a lot of their time cooped up in their dorms. That's partly because of the terrible and expensive college town. College is not meant to be a boarding school. The terrible college town contributes heavily to the negatives of W&M despite providing a good education.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But no where have I said that W&M have unhappy alumni. I simply refuted the statement that because W&M is on the top of the list on alumni giving for public universities, that ergo they must have happy alumni. I pointed to factors such as W&M's size and wealth student population that leads it to have a high giving rate over other publics.

You refuted nothing. It is evidence of likely alumni satisfaction. If you had to bet your life on whether the school at the top of the alumni giving percentage list has higher alumni satisfaction or the school at the top of the alumni giving percentage list has higher alumni satisfaction, which would you pick? If you are being honest, I think you would pick the school at the top. Why? Because it is evidence of likely alumni satisfaction, and the vast majority of people would see it that way as well.

This is what USNWR says about it: Alumni giving rate average: The nonweighted mean percentage of undergraduate alumni of record who donated money to the college or university. The percentage of alumni giving serves as a proxy for how satisfied students are with the school.

You can also find research that shows there is a correlation between satisfaction and giving rate. For instance, Ruffalo Noel Levitz, the firm that does graduate surveys for universities.

No, I refuted exactly what I said I refuted.
No, I would not bet my life on whether a school at the top of alumni giving also has most satisfied alumni. Too noisy an indicator.
However, if I had to bet out of a set of universities which universities had the highest percentage of alumni giving, I would choose the one that was the smallest in size and also had the wealthiest students.
What USNWR says does not matter. They are only giving justification for why they use alumni giving in their ranking. In reality, it only serves to keep the Ivies at the top; as the editor said once, "the ranking is true because Harvard is #1 in the ranking". You would need a legitimate study proving that alumni giving is heavily correlated with college satisfaction to prove what you are claiming, not what some random guy at USNWR says

Anonymous wrote:Two thoughts:

1) A poster keeps suggesting that alumni giving is related to wealth of parents. Alumni giving is from the alum, not the parents. Unless the thought it that the parents are giving the $$ to the alum to donate? Not sure about that conclusion.

2) The complaints about the area surrounding W&M are odd, to me. I didn’t have money to go out anywhere when I was in college, and neither does my kid (at W&M). He is in college. I would expect most of his activities, dining and social, would be on campus, as they are, because he has no money to do anything off campus- no matter what school he attended.

1) Children of wealthy parents go on to be wealthy themselves due to connections, going business/medical/law/graduate school that non-wealthy students may not be able to afford, et. al. Furthermore you are more likely to give to the school if you did not have to struggle to pay for it. Furthermore you are more likely to give to the school if you did not have to take out loans to pay for it. That's why schools with a wealthy student population will have more alumni giving. Also it is partially true that some parents will give to the school in their children's name while/after the student attends the school.

2) The complaints about the surrounding area is specifically that the surrounding area is very expensive, with prices inflated by tourists and wealthy retirees. Therefore the students can't afford them. Most college towns are cheap places to live. Most activities of students are definitely not on campus unless you expect students to be cooped up in their dorms for four years - this is why college towns exist and have a constant buzz and excitement around them - they are lively. Now perhaps at W&M certainly many students do end up spending a lot of their time cooped up in their dorms. That's partly because of the terrible and expensive college town. College is not meant to be a boarding school. The terrible college town contributes heavily to the negatives of W&M despite providing a good education.

Anonymous wrote:My son is strongly considering W&M and likes the size, teacher/student ratio and the good things he has heard about the Business school. His only concern is that he has heard there is little to do outside of studying and that Williamsburg is very boring for college students. He has heard great things about the school spirit at UVA and VT. He wants a good balance of academics/social life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But no where have I said that W&M have unhappy alumni. I simply refuted the statement that because W&M is on the top of the list on alumni giving for public universities, that ergo they must have happy alumni. I pointed to factors such as W&M's size and wealth student population that leads it to have a high giving rate over other publics.

You refuted nothing. It is evidence of likely alumni satisfaction. If you had to bet your life on whether the school at the top of the alumni giving percentage list has higher alumni satisfaction or the school at the top of the alumni giving percentage list has higher alumni satisfaction, which would you pick? If you are being honest, I think you would pick the school at the top. Why? Because it is evidence of likely alumni satisfaction, and the vast majority of people would see it that way as well.

This is what USNWR says about it: Alumni giving rate average: The nonweighted mean percentage of undergraduate alumni of record who donated money to the college or university. The percentage of alumni giving serves as a proxy for how satisfied students are with the school.

You can also find research that shows there is a correlation between satisfaction and giving rate. For instance, Ruffalo Noel Levitz, the firm that does graduate surveys for universities.

Anonymous wrote:Two thoughts:

1) A poster keeps suggesting that alumni giving is related to wealth of parents. Alumni giving is from the alum, not the parents. Unless the thought it that the parents are giving the $$ to the alum to donate? Not sure about that conclusion.

2) The complaints about the area surrounding W&M are odd, to me. I didn’t have money to go out anywhere when I was in college, and neither does my kid (at W&M). He is in college. I would expect most of his activities, dining and social, would be on campus, as they are, because he has no money to do anything off campus- no matter what school he attended.

Anonymous wrote:William and Mary significantly increased its alumni giving rate after an aggressive effort. It’s at the end of its billion dollar For the Bold fundraising campaign. It seems like getting the last 40 or 50 million is really taking some time, but overall it sounds like the campaign has been a success. God for them. The school doesn’t have limitless fat cat donors, and I’m guessing that some good old boys aren’t the biggest fans of the milquetoast-seeming President. I haven’t seen admission stats for the next class, so I’ll assume they were about the same as lady year’s—good enough, but not great.