Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread has given me a whole new understanding of how there ends up being such rampant sexual harassment by professors victimizing students, and how academics close ranks and protect their own.

Nope. Those professors are the ones chumming up to students on a first-name basis, going out drinking with students, etc. You should feel better about professors that insist on a professional relationship and appropriate distance.

I wrote this. You conveniently left out my "and appropriate distance" clause. What I'm saying is that in the past, everyone went by Prof. and Dr., and some harassed and some did not. Now, when titles are apparently optional, there are still academics who harass and take advantage of undergrads and many who do not. But the 'hey, I'm just like you, call me by my first name, let's go get a beer and I can go over the material with you personally' type is definitely out there and to be avoided.

FWIW, no grad student in my field calls a professor by their title. They are in training to become our equals and colleagues, and we are informal with each other. Undergrads are a different story. The are not equals by a long shot.

I think it's perfectly fine to consider going straight to using first names perfectly polite and cordial, so long as you are either good at interpreting context, or are not going to get miffed if you read the room wrong.

Have the courage of your convictions, if it's that important to you. And don't whine if your convictions lead you to be judged as unprofessional or rude, in certain contexts.

Deal?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine what a miserable and insufferable son of a b**** you have to be for “Hi [your first name]” to bother you! Up the SSRI dose, jeez.

In social settings, I don't care. At home, my kids can call my academic friends "Steve" or "Laura" or "Drew." They're friends of the family and that's fine. If my kid is in their class, though, they should use "Dr. Smith" or "Dr. Jones" or "Professor Johnson," because that is how polite students address their professors. It's respectful.

Sure, it is polite. But “Hi [first name]” is not impolite. Both are cordial.

Daughter is a freshman at Stanford. She said most profs are first name. Confident and chill vibes at Stanford.

Anonymous wrote:Imagine what a miserable and insufferable son of a b**** you have to be for “Hi [your first name]” to bother you! Up the SSRI dose, jeez.

In social settings, I don't care. At home, my kids can call my academic friends "Steve" or "Laura" or "Drew." They're friends of the family and that's fine. If my kid is in their class, though, they should use "Dr. Smith" or "Dr. Jones" or "Professor Johnson," because that is how polite students address their professors. It's respectful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a PhD and I’m not calling every random person I meet “Mr” or “Mrs” something. That’s ridiculous. I’m not 5 years old and we don’t live in Germany. In that case they should be calling me “Dr” which I would never expect them to do outside an academic setting.

It's odd to me that you believe your PhD is relevant to the issue of using Mr. and Ms. You should call adults you don't know Mr. and Ms. They don't have to call you Dr. outside of an academic setting or professional setting directly tied to your education. This is simple manners.

This is regional/situational. This is not always the rule to be polite.

Imagine what a miserable and insufferable son of a b**** you have to be for “Hi [your first name]” to bother you! Up the SSRI dose, jeez.

^^game

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread has given me a whole new understanding of how there ends up being such rampant sexual harassment by professors victimizing students, and how academics close ranks and protect their own.

Nope. Those professors are the ones chumming up to students on a first-name basis, going out drinking with students, etc. You should feel better about professors that insist on a professional relationship and appropriate distance.

Yes, because in tbe old days when nobody used first names, there was no sexual harassment by professors, and universities and other professors didn't universally support sexual assaulters and close ranks, right?

You always knew the guy who would go to student parties and insisted they use his first name was a pretty sure bet.

Are you truly making the point that there wasn't abuse and harassment in the wonderful old days when titles were strictly used, except for the rare ones who used first names? You miss those days, do you?

Reading comprehension must not be your strong point. Apparently jumping to conclusions is.

Where did I say anything at all about anyone other than one specific type of prof? I commented on that type of person being a prime suspect, which says nothing at all about whether anyone else is suspect.

Learn to read. Maybe go back to college?

You (or one of your cohort) are the one(s) who is/are making the inexplicable argument that the use of formal titles between professors and students reduces assault and harassment.

So … you can't. Good of you to admit it.

I am not making that argument, and I don't have a cohort.

I will say I don't think using first names with college professors has made sexual and hierarchical abuse less likely to happen. Other things, yes, but not that on its own. (I am curious if there is research, though.) I do remember well the profs that liked to hang out with students -- in the underground telephone dame, these were the ones most discussed as the ones you had to watch out for. Not that it didn't happen elsewhere, but that the odds went up when your professor would "accidentally" grope your butt at a student party.

You are nonsensical.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread has given me a whole new understanding of how there ends up being such rampant sexual harassment by professors victimizing students, and how academics close ranks and protect their own.

Nope. Those professors are the ones chumming up to students on a first-name basis, going out drinking with students, etc. You should feel better about professors that insist on a professional relationship and appropriate distance.

Yes, because in tbe old days when nobody used first names, there was no sexual harassment by professors, and universities and other professors didn't universally support sexual assaulters and close ranks, right?

You always knew the guy who would go to student parties and insisted they use his first name was a pretty sure bet.

Are you truly making the point that there wasn't abuse and harassment in the wonderful old days when titles were strictly used, except for the rare ones who used first names? You miss those days, do you?

This is hilarious. The only professor I knew of who "dated" students was a very good-looking 35-ish year old prof who insisted we call him by his first name, and who regularly held parties at his home, to which he invited his freshman and sophomore students. I knew three girls who slept with him. As a freshman, he seemed so cool and charismatic. His casual, we're-all-in-this-together persona was super attractive then. Now I look back and cringe at how vulnerable and easily manipulated we girls were. Yes, I would have "dated" him if he had shown interest: I'm so glad now that never happened. I don't think girls that age are mature enough to see when they are being manipulated, and I think that universities insisting on professional distance, including professional titles, is a great idea.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a PhD and I’m not calling every random person I meet “Mr” or “Mrs” something. That’s ridiculous. I’m not 5 years old and we don’t live in Germany. In that case they should be calling me “Dr” which I would never expect them to do outside an academic setting.

It's odd to me that you believe your PhD is relevant to the issue of using Mr. and Ms. You should call adults you don't know Mr. and Ms. They don't have to call you Dr. outside of an academic setting or professional setting directly tied to your education. This is simple manners.

I live in California and I literally do not know anyone who calls adults they don't know Mr. and Ms. That is bizarre behavior.

Is it possible that the bizarre behavior is Californian rather than the other way round? Personally I wouldn’t call either bizarre just the regional custom which I would adhere to. When in Rome .... or California or east coast.

People on the east coast are more formal. I'm 50, and still address people older than me or in a professional sitting by their titles, unless or until they ask me to, or introduce themselves to me by their first names.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a PhD and I’m not calling every random person I meet “Mr” or “Mrs” something. That’s ridiculous. I’m not 5 years old and we don’t live in Germany. In that case they should be calling me “Dr” which I would never expect them to do outside an academic setting.

It's odd to me that you believe your PhD is relevant to the issue of using Mr. and Ms. You should call adults you don't know Mr. and Ms. They don't have to call you Dr. outside of an academic setting or professional setting directly tied to your education. This is simple manners.

I live in California and I literally do not know anyone who calls adults they don't know Mr. and Ms. That is bizarre behavior.

It may be bizarre in California, but in the rest of the civilized world it’s the norm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a PhD and I’m not calling every random person I meet “Mr” or “Mrs” something. That’s ridiculous. I’m not 5 years old and we don’t live in Germany. In that case they should be calling me “Dr” which I would never expect them to do outside an academic setting.

It's odd to me that you believe your PhD is relevant to the issue of using Mr. and Ms. You should call adults you don't know Mr. and Ms. They don't have to call you Dr. outside of an academic setting or professional setting directly tied to your education. This is simple manners.

I live in California and I literally do not know anyone who calls adults they don't know Mr. and Ms. That is bizarre behavior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread has given me a whole new understanding of how there ends up being such rampant sexual harassment by professors victimizing students, and how academics close ranks and protect their own.

Nope. Those professors are the ones chumming up to students on a first-name basis, going out drinking with students, etc. You should feel better about professors that insist on a professional relationship and appropriate distance.

Yes, because in tbe old days when nobody used first names, there was no sexual harassment by professors, and universities and other professors didn't universally support sexual assaulters and close ranks, right?

You always knew the guy who would go to student parties and insisted they use his first name was a pretty sure bet.

Are you truly making the point that there wasn't abuse and harassment in the wonderful old days when titles were strictly used, except for the rare ones who used first names? You miss those days, do you?

Reading comprehension must not be your strong point. Apparently jumping to conclusions is.

Where did I say anything at all about anyone other than one specific type of prof? I commented on that type of person being a prime suspect, which says nothing at all about whether anyone else is suspect.

Learn to read. Maybe go back to college?

You (or one of your cohort) are the one(s) who is/are making the inexplicable argument that the use of formal titles between professors and students reduces assault and harassment.