Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people blaming the Obama Admin if Americans are not allowed to travel there? Or are discouraged from going there.

People who don't understand a concept of personal responsibility always blame someone else.
If the boy was kidnaped by NK intelligence and taken to NK, that would be different.

I don't like obama at all, but what happened to this boy was self inflicted.
Still sorry for him and his family. Doctors said he has extensive brain tissue damage. Awful.

Exactly

Are liberals blaming the black mother on welfare with six kids and no father(s) for her irresponsible life choices? Or are they talking about systemic racism, the history of slavery, etc., etc.?

This kid chose to be reckless. Those women didn't choose to grow up in poverty. Not pardoning their choices, but it's way more complicated than his case.

A college kid goes to NK (admittedly something most people would not do) for a handful of days and the consequences are his fault but a woman who grows up in poverty, has multiple children she cannot afford with no father around, thereby messing up those kids' lives and expecting the taxpayer to take of them, gets a free pass to make stupid decisions for the rest of her life? And then when her children make the same poor choices because they grew up in poverty and the cycle continues, they get a free pass too?

He went to NK without his parent's knowledge and against government warnings. THEN, he broke the law there. Pretty reckless and illegal.

The women you despise may have made some bad choices, but aren't doing anything quite so reckless or illegal. They really aren't relevant here at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Puzzled lefty here-- so, is the (obviously not unanimous) liberal outrage here mainly due to the student's father's comments about Obama and Trump?

I'm just wondering. Is there some general position that I missed-- we don't have compassion for victims of crimes, and in fact adopt the "they asked for it" policy, if their political views and opinions differ from our own? That would be very convenient, so I'm interested in pursuing the opportunity. Substance abusers who die of overdoses, rape and assault victims, victims of terrorist attacks and gun violence-- can we begin posting their political views so that I can determine whether it was their own bad judgment that ultimately did them in and my own comparative moral superiority and good decision-making that leave me able to sit in judgment, rather than a hefty dose of good luck?

(This is not aimed at conservatives. We already disagree, and I respect that. This is et tu, Brute?)

You are really overthinking this. People are disgusted at this man's stupidity and the way his family is blaming politicians for the outcome. It would be like affirmatively deciding to visit the Democratic Republic of Congo, being captured by bandits, and getting my head chopped off -- and then having my family blame Trump for not intervening soon enough to rescue me. F that noise. Doesn't mean it's right for other out of control countries to commit atrocities -- but if you put yourself directly in harm's way and then engage in criminal behavior you don't really deserve to be critical of anyone but yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people blaming the Obama Admin if Americans are not allowed to travel there? Or are discouraged from going there.

People who don't understand a concept of personal responsibility always blame someone else.
If the boy was kidnaped by NK intelligence and taken to NK, that would be different.

I don't like obama at all, but what happened to this boy was self inflicted.
Still sorry for him and his family. Doctors said he has extensive brain tissue damage. Awful.

Exactly

Are liberals blaming the black mother on welfare with six kids and no father(s) for her irresponsible life choices? Or are they talking about systemic racism, the history of slavery, etc., etc.?

This kid chose to be reckless. Those women didn't choose to grow up in poverty. Not pardoning their choices, but it's way more complicated than his case.

A college kid goes to NK (admittedly something most people would not do) for a handful of days and the consequences are his fault but a woman who grows up in poverty, has multiple children she cannot afford with no father around, thereby messing up those kids' lives and expecting the taxpayer to take of them, gets a free pass to make stupid decisions for the rest of her life? And then when her children make the same poor choices because they grew up in poverty and the cycle continues, they get a free pass too?

He went to NK without his parent's knowledge and against government warnings. THEN, he broke the law there. Pretty reckless and illegal.

The women you despise may have made some bad choices, but aren't doing anything quite so reckless or illegal. They really aren't relevant here at all.

North Korean talking point. How do you know he broke their laws for sure? Because they said so and some fuzzy video anyone could fake?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a lefty liberal and I have the utmost compassion and sorrow for the young man and his family. I don't blame them for anything they say, because they are obviously grief stricken and anyone in their circumstance would be. Did he do something idiotic? Yes. Did many of us do idiotic things as 20 year olds? Yes. It's always tragic when a young person dies or is tragically injured when they do something really dumb (get in a car with a drunk driver, pass out in the middle of a road, jump off a cliff into the water and hit their head on a rock, etc., etc.). Young people think they are bullet proof, and they are not. Its why parents go around with their heart in their mouth.

Do I blame the Obama administration? No. Could they have done more? Maybe, I don't know. North Korea is bat-shit crazy in a way that is very difficult to deal with and very unpredictable. I'm not really in a position of second-guessing how professionals deal with an insane man with nuclear weapons. But I don't blame Otto's parents for second-guessing the politicians.

A new administration often has some leeway to negotiate where the other country is looking for an "out" (think the Iranian hostage crisis, also resolved during an administration change).

+1 I was also thinking about the Iranian hostage crisis. I believe they were released right after Reagan took office.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Trump made this a priority. And, had he not, this kid would still be rotting in a prison/hospital in N Korea and his family, nor anyone from our country, would know he was in a coma. "

I don't think so. The North Koreans wanted him off of their soil. Had he died there, it would be much more of a loss for them. There were no favors done here. This was for NK's benefit, plain and simple.

Hey here's a thought... don't go to North Korea!!

Seriously. Now it's Obama's fault that he didn't get Warmbier home. Maybe little Otto shouldn't have been an entitled dumbass. I have zero fucks to give about this whole thing.

....and liberals say conservatives are heartless? Just wow.

+2

I feel SO sorry for that young man. (Well, now he knows nothing, so I feel sorry for his parents.) Did any of you see him pleading for mercy from the North Korean court? And can you even imagine (I can't) the level of torture he endured that actually brought on a cardiac episode?

How can you liberals have no compassion for a young college kid who did a stupid thing, yet defend the stupid young welfare mother who keeps popping out kid, after kid, after kid, and demand that she is entitled to her own apartment and can buy lobster and manicures if she wants? (I'm pulling from another thread.)

+1

+2.

+3

Because that woman doesn't exist. It is a Conservative fantasy/fairy tale/suburban (?) legend. Completely fake.

Really? Turn on an episode of Judge Judy one afternoon. There is at least one in every episode.

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I didn't think I could be shocked by DCUM, but I am blown away by the hatred and anger displayed towards Otto who is basically in a vegetative state. And towards his family for making a mildly critical statement towards Obama.

A new low for DCUM?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people blaming the Obama Admin if Americans are not allowed to travel there? Or are discouraged from going there.

People who don't understand a concept of personal responsibility always blame someone else.
If the boy was kidnaped by NK intelligence and taken to NK, that would be different.

I don't like obama at all, but what happened to this boy was self inflicted.
Still sorry for him and his family. Doctors said he has extensive brain tissue damage. Awful.

Exactly

Are liberals blaming the black mother on welfare with six kids and no father(s) for her irresponsible life choices? Or are they talking about systemic racism, the history of slavery, etc., etc.?

This kid chose to be reckless. Those women didn't choose to grow up in poverty. Not pardoning their choices, but it's way more complicated than his case.

A college kid goes to NK (admittedly something most people would not do) for a handful of days and the consequences are his fault but a woman who grows up in poverty, has multiple children she cannot afford with no father around, thereby messing up those kids' lives and expecting the taxpayer to take of them, gets a free pass to make stupid decisions for the rest of her life? And then when her children make the same poor choices because they grew up in poverty and the cycle continues, they get a free pass too?

He went to NK without his parent's knowledge and against government warnings. THEN, he broke the law there. Pretty reckless and illegal.

The women you despise may have made some bad choices, but aren't doing anything quite so reckless or illegal. They really aren't relevant here at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people blaming the Obama Admin if Americans are not allowed to travel there? Or are discouraged from going there.

People who don't understand a concept of personal responsibility always blame someone else.
If the boy was kidnaped by NK intelligence and taken to NK, that would be different.

I don't like obama at all, but what happened to this boy was self inflicted.
Still sorry for him and his family. Doctors said he has extensive brain tissue damage. Awful.

Exactly

Are liberals blaming the black mother on welfare with six kids and no father(s) for her irresponsible life choices? Or are they talking about systemic racism, the history of slavery, etc., etc.?

This kid chose to be reckless. Those women didn't choose to grow up in poverty. Not pardoning their choices, but it's way more complicated than his case.

A college kid goes to NK (admittedly something most people would not do) for a handful of days and the consequences are his fault but a woman who grows up in poverty, has multiple children she cannot afford with no father around, thereby messing up those kids' lives and expecting the taxpayer to take of them, gets a free pass to make stupid decisions for the rest of her life? And then when her children make the same poor choices because they grew up in poverty and the cycle continues, they get a free pass too?

He went to NK without his parent's knowledge and against government warnings. THEN, he broke the law there. Pretty reckless and illegal.

The women you despise may have made some bad choices, but aren't doing anything quite so reckless or illegal. They really aren't relevant here at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people blaming the Obama Admin if Americans are not allowed to travel there? Or are discouraged from going there.

People who don't understand a concept of personal responsibility always blame someone else.
If the boy was kidnaped by NK intelligence and taken to NK, that would be different.

I don't like obama at all, but what happened to this boy was self inflicted.
Still sorry for him and his family. Doctors said he has extensive brain tissue damage. Awful.

Exactly

Are liberals blaming the black mother on welfare with six kids and no father(s) for her irresponsible life choices? Or are they talking about systemic racism, the history of slavery, etc., etc.?

This kid chose to be reckless. Those women didn't choose to grow up in poverty. Not pardoning their choices, but it's way more complicated than his case.

A college kid goes to NK (admittedly something most people would not do) for a handful of days and the consequences are his fault but a woman who grows up in poverty, has multiple children she cannot afford with no father around, thereby messing up those kids' lives and expecting the taxpayer to take of them, gets a free pass to make stupid decisions for the rest of her life? And then when her children make the same poor choices because they grew up in poverty and the cycle continues, they get a free pass too?

This is such a silly oversimplification.

The kid f-cked up. He went to NK - bad move, but okay. But then he willfully defied the laws of a country known for its despotic tendencies and its merciless justice system (if you can call it that; there's not much justice in that system). He made childish and irresponsible choices that ultimately led to his current situation. It's tragic and no, I don't believe the punishment in any way fit the crime. But the North Koreans have a different take on that and he arrogantly messed with their laws. I feel for his family and for him, but he is to blame.

As for the cycle of poverty and women having kids out of wedlock. Let's not conflate this with Otto's case. The complexity of why women AND men have children despite poverty and whether they in fact get a "free pass" (I'd argue they don't but okay) are totally different issues. Having kids out of wedlock isn't breaking the law in today's America and if we want parents to have fewer kids let's double down on free contraception, education, and providing people with access to education that gives them something to live for and aspire to. But again, this is such a different situation than Otto's case and so much more complex than can be discussed in the context of this forum.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a lefty liberal and I have the utmost compassion and sorrow for the young man and his family. I don't blame them for anything they say, because they are obviously grief stricken and anyone in their circumstance would be. Did he do something idiotic? Yes. Did many of us do idiotic things as 20 year olds? Yes. It's always tragic when a young person dies or is tragically injured when they do something really dumb (get in a car with a drunk driver, pass out in the middle of a road, jump off a cliff into the water and hit their head on a rock, etc., etc.). Young people think they are bullet proof, and they are not. Its why parents go around with their heart in their mouth.

Do I blame the Obama administration? No. Could they have done more? Maybe, I don't know. North Korea is bat-shit crazy in a way that is very difficult to deal with and very unpredictable. I'm not really in a position of second-guessing how professionals deal with an insane man with nuclear weapons. But I don't blame Otto's parents for second-guessing the politicians.

A new administration often has some leeway to negotiate where the other country is looking for an "out" (think the Iranian hostage crisis, also resolved during an administration change).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people blaming the Obama Admin if Americans are not allowed to travel there? Or are discouraged from going there.

People who don't understand a concept of personal responsibility always blame someone else.
If the boy was kidnaped by NK intelligence and taken to NK, that would be different.

I don't like obama at all, but what happened to this boy was self inflicted.
Still sorry for him and his family. Doctors said he has extensive brain tissue damage. Awful.

Exactly

Are liberals blaming the black mother on welfare with six kids and no father(s) for her irresponsible life choices? Or are they talking about systemic racism, the history of slavery, etc., etc.?

This kid chose to be reckless. Those women didn't choose to grow up in poverty. Not pardoning their choices, but it's way more complicated than his case.

A college kid goes to NK (admittedly something most people would not do) for a handful of days and the consequences are his fault but a woman who grows up in poverty, has multiple children she cannot afford with no father around, thereby messing up those kids' lives and expecting the taxpayer to take of them, gets a free pass to make stupid decisions for the rest of her life? And then when her children make the same poor choices because they grew up in poverty and the cycle continues, they get a free pass too?

This is such a silly oversimplification.

The kid f-cked up. He went to NK - bad move, but okay. But then he willfully defied the laws of a country known for its despotic tendencies and its merciless justice system (if you can call it that; there's not much justice in that system). He made childish and irresponsible choices that ultimately led to his current situation. It's tragic and no, I don't believe the punishment in any way fit the crime. But the North Koreans have a different take on that and he arrogantly messed with their laws. I feel for his family and for him, but he is to blame.

As for the cycle of poverty and women having kids out of wedlock. Let's not conflate this with Otto's case. The complexity of why women AND men have children despite poverty and whether they in fact get a "free pass" (I'd argue they don't but okay) are totally different issues. Having kids out of wedlock isn't breaking the law in today's America and if we want parents to have fewer kids let's double down on free contraception, education, and providing people with access to education that gives them something to live for and aspire to. But again, this is such a different situation than Otto's case and so much more complex than can be discussed in the context of this forum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Trump made this a priority. And, had he not, this kid would still be rotting in a prison/hospital in N Korea and his family, nor anyone from our country, would know he was in a coma. "

I don't think so. The North Koreans wanted him off of their soil. Had he died there, it would be much more of a loss for them. There were no favors done here. This was for NK's benefit, plain and simple.

Hey here's a thought... don't go to North Korea!!

Seriously. Now it's Obama's fault that he didn't get Warmbier home. Maybe little Otto shouldn't have been an entitled dumbass. I have zero fucks to give about this whole thing.

....and liberals say conservatives are heartless? Just wow.

+2

I feel SO sorry for that young man. (Well, now he knows nothing, so I feel sorry for his parents.) Did any of you see him pleading for mercy from the North Korean court? And can you even imagine (I can't) the level of torture he endured that actually brought on a cardiac episode?

How can you liberals have no compassion for a young college kid who did a stupid thing, yet defend the stupid young welfare mother who keeps popping out kid, after kid, after kid, and demand that she is entitled to her own apartment and can buy lobster and manicures if she wants? (I'm pulling from another thread.)

+1

+2.

+3

Because that woman doesn't exist. It is a Conservative fantasy/fairy tale/suburban (?) legend. Completely fake.