Anonymous
05/12/2016 11:45
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: Arl doesn't do rolling offers. Are you talking about VYS?
VYS doesn't do rolling offers. Everyone finds out at same time, unless they changed it this year.
When Eddie ran it, they usually picked some people after the first tryout, then maybe some more after the second.
Last year was an aberration -- the new technical staff botched things pretty badly, at least on the boys side. U9s didn't know team assignments until late summer, a concession to the fact that they hadn't really evaluated everyone.
This year? Who knows?
Late summer, for real? That model appears to be carrying over...
Anonymous
05/12/2016 11:39
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: Arl doesn't do rolling offers. Are you talking about VYS?
VYS doesn't do rolling offers. Everyone finds out at same time, unless they changed it this year.
When Eddie ran it, they usually picked some people after the first tryout, then maybe some more after the second.
Last year was an aberration -- the new technical staff botched things pretty badly, at least on the boys side. U9s didn't know team assignments until late summer, a concession to the fact that they hadn't really evaluated everyone.
This year? Who knows?
Anonymous
05/12/2016 09:57
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote: Arl doesn't do rolling offers. Are you talking about VYS?
VYS doesn't do rolling offers. Everyone finds out at same time, unless they changed it this year.
Anonymous
05/12/2016 07:54
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:With rolling offers, it's difficult to assign teams. I get that. They should be able to let me know lowest team though and if kids do not accept, kids move up. I also think they should have the coaches identified already.
Arl doesn't do rolling offers. Are you talking about VYS?
Anonymous
05/12/2016 06:55
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
With rolling offers, it's difficult to assign teams. I get that. They should be able to let me know lowest team though and if kids do not accept, kids move up. I also think they should have the coaches identified already.
Anonymous
05/11/2016 15:30
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: At U9, it shouldn't matter too much whether your kid is on the C vs. E team, as long as the coach and training are decent.
And that's the rub. The team/coaching assignment matters in determining whether the training will be decent or not. At most clubs, it is well known that the better, more heavily compensated coaches are assigned to the A team, and then the coaches of the C, D, E, and F teams are usually not as experienced and paid much less. All families also pay the same amount, subject to minor adjustments, so what ends up happening is the lower teams effectively subsidize the salary of the arguably better coach assigned to the A team.
It is not crazy for ARL parents to want to know whether they are getting value for their money or not, particularly if they are evaluating various options.
I don't think it's crazy to want to know team assignments at all. I just think in most circumstance it's not too hard to avoid paying prior to getting that info, regardless of what the club's "offer" says. If you are considering an offer from another club, the TD or age group coordinator of whomever is in charge of tryouts will not be surprised if you call to let them know you are happy about the offer but need more specifics since you are weighing other offers. At big clubs they expect large numbers of these types of calls.
Anonymous
05/11/2016 15:15
Subject: Re:VYS Soccer - better or worse?
If your club's E and F teams don't have a regular coach and are required to travel far distances for games, then I agree that's a serious problem and not worth paying travel fees for. I just meant that there is often not that much of a difference at younger ages between a club's C team and their bottom one. A lot of people knock big clubs, but at decent ones you can still get training on the bottom teams that is significantly better than anything you'd find in rec.
Anonymous
05/11/2016 15:09
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote: At U9, it shouldn't matter too much whether your kid is on the C vs. E team, as long as the coach and training are decent.
And that's the rub. The team/coaching assignment matters in determining whether the training will be decent or not. At most clubs, it is well known that the better, more heavily compensated coaches are assigned to the A team, and then the coaches of the C, D, E, and F teams are usually not as experienced and paid much less. All families also pay the same amount, subject to minor adjustments, so what ends up happening is the lower teams effectively subsidize the salary of the arguably better coach assigned to the A team.
It is not crazy for ARL parents to want to know whether they are getting value for their money or not, particularly if they are evaluating various options.
Anonymous
05/11/2016 15:05
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Hey, thanks for posting that. It puts the VYS soap opera in context.
Hmmm. I notice that Arlington parents are melting down on an another thread right now. Guess it's catching.
Ditto Stoddert parents, Bethesda parents... Someone should start a thread about which clubs are least complained about! Reston, Herndon, Great Falls?
I'm guessing there is no such thing as a complaint-free travel soccer club. The various clubs our kids have played for all have room for improvement, but I'd estimate that at least 75% of the complaints I've heard have more to do with parent's unrealistic expectations or ignorance about soccer than they do with a failure by the club.
Spot-on, friend. I also think DMV parents are more susceptible than most to the allure of the big elite clubs. Then once they get there, they realize it's all BS anyway.
Yet many of us played at a D1 level, some even professionally, and the horse hit these Clubs get away with is unbelievable.
Nobody is asking for an A team spot or saying their kid deserves it, there's 6 fucking teams of such different levels/leagues/coaching a family needs to know where the kid will be before blindly accepting an offer.
That's not even a true fucking offer. Here you go--you are one of 63 kids--no we don't know your coach or your league--give us $3k.
Those of us with experience are the ones that know this is horseshit. Those without are walking around gloating little Sally or Johnny made Arlington---even when in the girls side every girl on the field got a spot.
I wanted to clarify that my comment above with the 75% estimate wasn't referring to the Arlington tryout situation or any of the VYS contentions, but rather is based on my experience with 6 clubs (2 local) in different parts of the country. Some of these clubs are big "elite" ones, and others are smaller and claim to be more focused on "development." It's striking how often parents raise the same issues.
With respect to your rant above, I don't know anything about Arlington's management other than what I've read on these threads, but I don't think it's uncommon at lower age groups for clubs to inform families that their kids will be offered a spot and ask for a commitment without identifying the team. This is not a best practice for the reasons you and the other unhappy posters have identified, but it's not hard to understand why clubs with multiple teams do this. There are a lot of moving parts, and until they have an idea of the total pool of kids that plans to commit, it's hard to divvy up the teams. They don't want to tell you your kid is on the D or E team, and then, after more top kids than expected accepted offers elsewhere, have to come back and give you the news that your kid will be on a different one.
As long as the club doesn't actually tell you your child's spot is relinquished unless you pay the full year or fall season cost before team assignments are made, it's all manageable. If you think you plan to have your kid play for the club barring placement on a team with a coach you hate, you commit, and then you send in your deposit or payment once they tell you which team it is. If your kid gets assigned to a team that you know from first-hand experience (not conjecture) will not work for your child, you tell the club sorry. They will not come after you for the money. At U9 at a big club, it is highly unlikely you will be blackballed. Even if you pay a deposit, most clubs will refund your money if you have a legit reason for not wanting a spot on the team. I'll also add that most big clubs take a top down approach to these things starting with whatever age they get serious about sorting kids by ability (could be U9 for some clubs, or up to U11 or U12 at others). If they consider your child A (or B, if it's a strong age group) team material, the coach or TD or someone will make that clear to you, though not likely in writing. Below that level, they are just waiting to see how acceptances for the top teams shake out before firming things up.
At U9, it shouldn't matter too much whether your kid is on the C vs. E team, as long as the coach and training are decent. If you are holding off on accepting until you can be sure you have a composition of classmates and other kids you think will make your child happiest, then travel soccer at a big club is likely not going to be a good fit for you.
Disagree on the E/F team--when every game is a 12/17-0 blowout. When you never see the same coach. When you don't train in practice against any competition. When you are traveling long distances for this. From a developmental standpoint, a developmental league and pick up is more beneficial and probably a better means to keep the love of the sport alive. Throw in a few training sessions and camps too. Fear is what has most DMV parents grabbing these ridiculous F team spots at a young age. They are continually told if their kid doesn't grab a spot at 7/8, she/he won't be able to break into a club later. It shouldn't be that way.
Anonymous
05/11/2016 14:51
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Hey, thanks for posting that. It puts the VYS soap opera in context.
Hmmm. I notice that Arlington parents are melting down on an another thread right now. Guess it's catching.
Ditto Stoddert parents, Bethesda parents... Someone should start a thread about which clubs are least complained about! Reston, Herndon, Great Falls?
I'm guessing there is no such thing as a complaint-free travel soccer club. The various clubs our kids have played for all have room for improvement, but I'd estimate that at least 75% of the complaints I've heard have more to do with parent's unrealistic expectations or ignorance about soccer than they do with a failure by the club.
Spot-on, friend. I also think DMV parents are more susceptible than most to the allure of the big elite clubs. Then once they get there, they realize it's all BS anyway.
Yet many of us played at a D1 level, some even professionally, and the horse hit these Clubs get away with is unbelievable.
Nobody is asking for an A team spot or saying their kid deserves it, there's 6 fucking teams of such different levels/leagues/coaching a family needs to know where the kid will be before blindly accepting an offer.
That's not even a true fucking offer. Here you go--you are one of 63 kids--no we don't know your coach or your league--give us $3k.
Those of us with experience are the ones that know this is horseshit. Those without are walking around gloating little Sally or Johnny made Arlington---even when in the girls side every girl on the field got a spot.
I wanted to clarify that my comment above with the 75% estimate wasn't referring to the Arlington tryout situation or any of the VYS contentions, but rather is based on my experience with 6 clubs (2 local) in different parts of the country. Some of these clubs are big "elite" ones, and others are smaller and claim to be more focused on "development." It's striking how often parents raise the same issues.
With respect to your rant above, I don't know anything about Arlington's management other than what I've read on these threads, but I don't think it's uncommon at lower age groups for clubs to inform families that their kids will be offered a spot and ask for a commitment without identifying the team. This is not a best practice for the reasons you and the other unhappy posters have identified, but it's not hard to understand why clubs with multiple teams do this. There are a lot of moving parts, and until they have an idea of the total pool of kids that plans to commit, it's hard to divvy up the teams. They don't want to tell you your kid is on the D or E team, and then, after more top kids than expected accepted offers elsewhere, have to come back and give you the news that your kid will be on a different one.
As long as the club doesn't actually tell you your child's spot is relinquished unless you pay the full year or fall season cost before team assignments are made, it's all manageable. If you think you plan to have your kid play for the club barring placement on a team with a coach you hate, you commit, and then you send in your deposit or payment once they tell you which team it is. If your kid gets assigned to a team that you know from first-hand experience (not conjecture) will not work for your child, you tell the club sorry. They will not come after you for the money. At U9 at a big club, it is highly unlikely you will be blackballed. Even if you pay a deposit, most clubs will refund your money if you have a legit reason for not wanting a spot on the team. I'll also add that most big clubs take a top down approach to these things starting with whatever age they get serious about sorting kids by ability (could be U9 for some clubs, or up to U11 or U12 at others). If they consider your child A (or B, if it's a strong age group) team material, the coach or TD or someone will make that clear to you, though not likely in writing. Below that level, they are just waiting to see how acceptances for the top teams shake out before firming things up.
At U9, it shouldn't matter too much whether your kid is on the C vs. E team, as long as the coach and training are decent. If you are holding off on accepting until you can be sure you have a composition of classmates and other kids you think will make your child happiest, then travel soccer at a big club is likely not going to be a good fit for you.
Anonymous
05/11/2016 14:38
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
And Vienna parents may be more ignorant than most. The typical Vienna family knows much more about baseball than soccer.
Lots of "athletes," sure. Not a big soccer culture.
Lots of "athletes," sure. Not a big soccer culture.
Anonymous
05/11/2016 13:15
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Hey, thanks for posting that. It puts the VYS soap opera in context.
Hmmm. I notice that Arlington parents are melting down on an another thread right now. Guess it's catching.
Ditto Stoddert parents, Bethesda parents... Someone should start a thread about which clubs are least complained about! Reston, Herndon, Great Falls?
I'm guessing there is no such thing as a complaint-free travel soccer club. The various clubs our kids have played for all have room for improvement, but I'd estimate that at least 75% of the complaints I've heard have more to do with parent's unrealistic expectations or ignorance about soccer than they do with a failure by the club.
Spot-on, friend. I also think DMV parents are more susceptible than most to the allure of the big elite clubs. Then once they get there, they realize it's all BS anyway.
Yet many of us played at a D1 level, some even professionally, and the horse hit these Clubs get away with is unbelievable.
Nobody is asking for an A team spot or saying their kid deserves it, there's 6 fucking teams of such different levels/leagues/coaching a family needs to know where the kid will be before blindly accepting an offer.
That's not even a true fucking offer. Here you go--you are one of 63 kids--no we don't know your coach or your league--give us $3k.
Those of us with experience are the ones that know this is horseshit. Those without are walking around gloating little Sally or Johnny made Arlington---even when in the girls side every girl on the field got a spot.
+1
I find this to be the case too. My friends that didn't grow up in the soccer world are totally clueless and drinking the kool-aid poured down their throat. They have no idea how to spot good training or good coaching. They look for the biggest.
Anonymous
05/11/2016 13:12
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Hey, thanks for posting that. It puts the VYS soap opera in context.
Hmmm. I notice that Arlington parents are melting down on an another thread right now. Guess it's catching.
Ditto Stoddert parents, Bethesda parents... Someone should start a thread about which clubs are least complained about! Reston, Herndon, Great Falls?
I'm guessing there is no such thing as a complaint-free travel soccer club. The various clubs our kids have played for all have room for improvement, but I'd estimate that at least 75% of the complaints I've heard have more to do with parent's unrealistic expectations or ignorance about soccer than they do with a failure by the club.
Spot-on, friend. I also think DMV parents are more susceptible than most to the allure of the big elite clubs. Then once they get there, they realize it's all BS anyway.
Yet many of us played at a D1 level, some even professionally, and the horse hit these Clubs get away with is unbelievable.
Nobody is asking for an A team spot or saying their kid deserves it, there's 6 fucking teams of such different levels/leagues/coaching a family needs to know where the kid will be before blindly accepting an offer.
That's not even a true fucking offer. Here you go--you are one of 63 kids--no we don't know your coach or your league--give us $3k.
Those of us with experience are the ones that know this is horseshit. Those without are walking around gloating little Sally or Johnny made Arlington---even when in the girls side every girl on the field got a spot.
Anonymous
05/11/2016 13:05
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Hey, thanks for posting that. It puts the VYS soap opera in context.
Hmmm. I notice that Arlington parents are melting down on an another thread right now. Guess it's catching.
Ditto Stoddert parents, Bethesda parents... Someone should start a thread about which clubs are least complained about! Reston, Herndon, Great Falls?
I'm guessing there is no such thing as a complaint-free travel soccer club. The various clubs our kids have played for all have room for improvement, but I'd estimate that at least 75% of the complaints I've heard have more to do with parent's unrealistic expectations or ignorance about soccer than they do with a failure by the club.
Spot-on, friend. I also think DMV parents are more susceptible than most to the allure of the big elite clubs. Then once they get there, they realize it's all BS anyway.
Anonymous
05/11/2016 12:52
Subject: VYS Soccer - better or worse?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: Hmmm. I notice that Arlington parents are melting down on an another thread right now. Guess it's catching.
arl parents are understandably melting down bc they are being forced to pay deposit before knowing coach and team assignments. gunney said that every VYS parent will know their coach and team assignment before having to pay a deposit this year, and coaches have already been posted, so assume that will be honored. yeah us!
+1
We are all so worthy of getting a spot for all mighty Arlington that we should just shut up and blindly pay before knowing very crucial details of the offer.