There is real RAND hater on this thread!

FFRDCs and for profit contractors have different business models. The latter can serve as body shops and staff government offices. They do a huge amount of valuable staff work.

FFRDCs are defined in the FAR: https://www.acquisition.gov/far/35.017
Government organizations are not legally allowed to give work to FFRDCs that are outside their mission. If a for-profit can do it, it should not go to an FFRDC. All the studies and analyses FFRDCs have serious PhD nerds who are happy doing studies. They are supposed to be independent and offer independent advice, but have the expertise and clearances necessary to do all kinds of work. These are long term investments made by the government in folks who can give good advice.

I love dcum. Where else could I write about the FAR and know people will track?

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Anonymous wrote:Mitre was a powerhouse only a few years ago and now it's laying off folks and struggling to keep their buildings. Jesus.

Not really because Mitre grew too quickly and hired more staff than positions open. Also, in its early years, Mitre hired very technical engineers, SMEs and specialized staff but as it grew and evolved, Mitre took on similar work as for-profit government contractors and hired from the same pool of candidates (contract staff and former feds). But, as PPs pointed out, FFRDC staff carry a lot of overhead to perform similar work.

the previous CEO did not really understand FFRDCs

Sounds like the current state of RAND.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mitre was a powerhouse only a few years ago and now it's laying off folks and struggling to keep their buildings. Jesus.

Not really because Mitre grew too quickly and hired more staff than positions open. Also, in its early years, Mitre hired very technical engineers, SMEs and specialized staff but as it grew and evolved, Mitre took on similar work as for-profit government contractors and hired from the same pool of candidates (contract staff and former feds). But, as PPs pointed out, FFRDC staff carry a lot of overhead to perform similar work.

the previous CEO did not really understand FFRDCs

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Anonymous wrote:Let's see if MITRE has more layoffs and they close Bldgs to match the reduction

More likely they will release leased office space elsewhere in Tysons...

NITRE has very few leased office spaces left, if any. Moreover they own the 4 buildings in Tysons.

They will have to find tenants for their existing spaces (which won't be easy), and likely consolidate operations into a smaller footprint.

Correct it won’t be easy bc of some of their neighbors.

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Anonymous wrote:Senior researchers are a dime a dozen. It's much harder to find folks with technical skills who want to work at a non-profit instead of Google. I know RAND looks at comparable salaries when setting ranges.

How do you know? Is RAND HR monitoring this thread?

I used to work there as a researcher. Definitely not HR. FFRDCs to do comps pretty carefully when doing government work to justify salaries. What can researchers make in academia? What do other organizations pay? That said the comps are not Wall Street.

It was always harder to find folks for the tech support side, and hard to keep them. In Silicon Valley they're the stars and at FFRDCs they are make it possible for researchers to do their work.

I know folks at all the local FFRDCs. Mostly really smart and mission driven people. A lot of them could have made more money in other organizations.

Not sure I buy this point. The pay range for a "Technical AI Policy Associate" at RAND is listed at $47,100- $156,500, requiring a BA but preference for a higher degree. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC-DC-Metro-Area/Technical-AI-Policy-Associate_R3217-1)

RAND is paying a "Grants Proposal Manager" between $75,700-$112,400, requiring a high school diploma but a BA is preferred. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC/Grants-Proposal-Manager_R3234)

That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ LESS than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

*Correction: That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ MORE than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

The AI position isn't even government funded. And if they underpay, they won't get good people. Why would that be your business,.or DOGE's?

It’s my business because I’m a taxpayer and my employer (a defense contractor) has to compete with these bloated FFRDCs.

Ummm … contractors cannot do FFRDC work and Vice versa

lol FFRDCs do a ton of work that should go to for-profit companies

Contractors cannot test things they deliver to the government. That’s why an IDA exists to support DOTE.

Not anymore

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Senior researchers are a dime a dozen. It's much harder to find folks with technical skills who want to work at a non-profit instead of Google. I know RAND looks at comparable salaries when setting ranges.

How do you know? Is RAND HR monitoring this thread?

I used to work there as a researcher. Definitely not HR. FFRDCs to do comps pretty carefully when doing government work to justify salaries. What can researchers make in academia? What do other organizations pay? That said the comps are not Wall Street.

It was always harder to find folks for the tech support side, and hard to keep them. In Silicon Valley they're the stars and at FFRDCs they are make it possible for researchers to do their work.

I know folks at all the local FFRDCs. Mostly really smart and mission driven people. A lot of them could have made more money in other organizations.

Not sure I buy this point. The pay range for a "Technical AI Policy Associate" at RAND is listed at $47,100- $156,500, requiring a BA but preference for a higher degree. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC-DC-Metro-Area/Technical-AI-Policy-Associate_R3217-1)

RAND is paying a "Grants Proposal Manager" between $75,700-$112,400, requiring a high school diploma but a BA is preferred. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC/Grants-Proposal-Manager_R3234)

That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ LESS than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

*Correction: That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ MORE than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

The AI position isn't even government funded. And if they underpay, they won't get good people. Why would that be your business,.or DOGE's?

It’s my business because I’m a taxpayer and my employer (a defense contractor) has to compete with these bloated FFRDCs.

Ummm … contractors cannot do FFRDC work and Vice versa

You are incorrect.

CNA is one that has separated its Gov contracting work from its traditional FFRDC work.

Yes, CNA can have two sides but the FFRDC that it operates on behalf of the government cannot do contractor work and contractors cannot do the FFRDC work.The FFRDCs are quasi-government workers while federal contractors are not.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Senior researchers are a dime a dozen. It's much harder to find folks with technical skills who want to work at a non-profit instead of Google. I know RAND looks at comparable salaries when setting ranges.

How do you know? Is RAND HR monitoring this thread?

I used to work there as a researcher. Definitely not HR. FFRDCs to do comps pretty carefully when doing government work to justify salaries. What can researchers make in academia? What do other organizations pay? That said the comps are not Wall Street.

It was always harder to find folks for the tech support side, and hard to keep them. In Silicon Valley they're the stars and at FFRDCs they are make it possible for researchers to do their work.

I know folks at all the local FFRDCs. Mostly really smart and mission driven people. A lot of them could have made more money in other organizations.

Not sure I buy this point. The pay range for a "Technical AI Policy Associate" at RAND is listed at $47,100- $156,500, requiring a BA but preference for a higher degree. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC-DC-Metro-Area/Technical-AI-Policy-Associate_R3217-1)

RAND is paying a "Grants Proposal Manager" between $75,700-$112,400, requiring a high school diploma but a BA is preferred. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC/Grants-Proposal-Manager_R3234)

That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ LESS than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

*Correction: That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ MORE than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

The AI position isn't even government funded. And if they underpay, they won't get good people. Why would that be your business,.or DOGE's?

It’s my business because I’m a taxpayer and my employer (a defense contractor) has to compete with these bloated FFRDCs.

Ummm … contractors cannot do FFRDC work and Vice versa

lol FFRDCs do a ton of work that should go to for-profit companies

Contractors cannot test things they deliver to the government. That’s why an IDA exists to support DOTE.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Senior researchers are a dime a dozen. It's much harder to find folks with technical skills who want to work at a non-profit instead of Google. I know RAND looks at comparable salaries when setting ranges.

How do you know? Is RAND HR monitoring this thread?

I used to work there as a researcher. Definitely not HR. FFRDCs to do comps pretty carefully when doing government work to justify salaries. What can researchers make in academia? What do other organizations pay? That said the comps are not Wall Street.

It was always harder to find folks for the tech support side, and hard to keep them. In Silicon Valley they're the stars and at FFRDCs they are make it possible for researchers to do their work.

I know folks at all the local FFRDCs. Mostly really smart and mission driven people. A lot of them could have made more money in other organizations.

Not sure I buy this point. The pay range for a "Technical AI Policy Associate" at RAND is listed at $47,100- $156,500, requiring a BA but preference for a higher degree. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC-DC-Metro-Area/Technical-AI-Policy-Associate_R3217-1)

RAND is paying a "Grants Proposal Manager" between $75,700-$112,400, requiring a high school diploma but a BA is preferred. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC/Grants-Proposal-Manager_R3234)

That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ LESS than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

*Correction: That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ MORE than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

The AI position isn't even government funded. And if they underpay, they won't get good people. Why would that be your business,.or DOGE's?

It’s my business because I’m a taxpayer and my employer (a defense contractor) has to compete with these bloated FFRDCs.

Ummm … contractors cannot do FFRDC work and Vice versa

You are incorrect.

CNA is one that has separated its Gov contracting work from its traditional FFRDC work.

I work at CNA and can confirm. That's what the Institute for Public Research does.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Senior researchers are a dime a dozen. It's much harder to find folks with technical skills who want to work at a non-profit instead of Google. I know RAND looks at comparable salaries when setting ranges.

How do you know? Is RAND HR monitoring this thread?

I used to work there as a researcher. Definitely not HR. FFRDCs to do comps pretty carefully when doing government work to justify salaries. What can researchers make in academia? What do other organizations pay? That said the comps are not Wall Street.

It was always harder to find folks for the tech support side, and hard to keep them. In Silicon Valley they're the stars and at FFRDCs they are make it possible for researchers to do their work.

I know folks at all the local FFRDCs. Mostly really smart and mission driven people. A lot of them could have made more money in other organizations.

Not sure I buy this point. The pay range for a "Technical AI Policy Associate" at RAND is listed at $47,100- $156,500, requiring a BA but preference for a higher degree. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC-DC-Metro-Area/Technical-AI-Policy-Associate_R3217-1)

RAND is paying a "Grants Proposal Manager" between $75,700-$112,400, requiring a high school diploma but a BA is preferred. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC/Grants-Proposal-Manager_R3234)

That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ LESS than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

*Correction: That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ MORE than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

The AI position isn't even government funded. And if they underpay, they won't get good people. Why would that be your business,.or DOGE's?

It’s my business because I’m a taxpayer and my employer (a defense contractor) has to compete with these bloated FFRDCs.

Ummm … contractors cannot do FFRDC work and Vice versa

You are incorrect.

CNA is one that has separated its Gov contracting work from its traditional FFRDC work.

Anonymous wrote:Per Wikipedia,"Effective altruism is a 21st-century philosophical and social movement that advocates impartially calculating benefits and prioritizing causes to provide the greatest good. It is motivated by "using evidence and reason to figure out how to benefit others as much as possible, and taking action on that basis"

Sounds great, but here's a different take: https://www.truthdig.com/articles/effective-altruism-is-a-welter-of-fraud-lies-exploitation-and-eugenic-fantasies/

"An idea built around a vision of the future in which we reengineer humanity, colonize space, plunder the vast resources of the cosmos, and ultimately maximize the total amount of “value” in the universe by creating huge numbers of “digital people” living “happy” lives in giant computer simulations.:

Per Wikipedia,"Effective altruism is a 21st-century philosophical and social movement that advocates impartially calculating benefits and prioritizing causes to provide the greatest good. It is motivated by "using evidence and reason to figure out how to benefit others as much as possible, and taking action on that basis"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Senior researchers are a dime a dozen. It's much harder to find folks with technical skills who want to work at a non-profit instead of Google. I know RAND looks at comparable salaries when setting ranges.

How do you know? Is RAND HR monitoring this thread?

I used to work there as a researcher. Definitely not HR. FFRDCs to do comps pretty carefully when doing government work to justify salaries. What can researchers make in academia? What do other organizations pay? That said the comps are not Wall Street.

It was always harder to find folks for the tech support side, and hard to keep them. In Silicon Valley they're the stars and at FFRDCs they are make it possible for researchers to do their work.

I know folks at all the local FFRDCs. Mostly really smart and mission driven people. A lot of them could have made more money in other organizations.

Not sure I buy this point. The pay range for a "Technical AI Policy Associate" at RAND is listed at $47,100- $156,500, requiring a BA but preference for a higher degree. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC-DC-Metro-Area/Technical-AI-Policy-Associate_R3217-1)

RAND is paying a "Grants Proposal Manager" between $75,700-$112,400, requiring a high school diploma but a BA is preferred. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC/Grants-Proposal-Manager_R3234)

That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ LESS than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

*Correction: That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ MORE than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

The AI position isn't even government funded. And if they underpay, they won't get good people. Why would that be your business,.or DOGE's?

This is correct. It’s a position in RAND’s new ‘Global and Emerging Risks’ division which (in my opinion and what seems like the opinions of many others) produces low quality research…which is probably a result of paying such low salaries.

Someone recently told me that RAND has embraced effective altruism (sp?). Not sure if she's right, but the belief system seems wacky.

Anonymous wrote:In many cases, work goes to a more expensive FFRDC over a lower-cost contractor simply because government can easily add a no-bid task order onto the FFRDC's master contract.

Doing this saves government the effort/cost and time delay of bidding out the work on a separate contract.

And that is a problem.

In many cases, work goes to a more expensive FFRDC over a lower-cost contractor simply because government can easily add a no-bid task order onto the FFRDC's master contract.

Doing this saves government the effort/cost and time delay of bidding out the work on a separate contract.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Senior researchers are a dime a dozen. It's much harder to find folks with technical skills who want to work at a non-profit instead of Google. I know RAND looks at comparable salaries when setting ranges.

How do you know? Is RAND HR monitoring this thread?

I used to work there as a researcher. Definitely not HR. FFRDCs to do comps pretty carefully when doing government work to justify salaries. What can researchers make in academia? What do other organizations pay? That said the comps are not Wall Street.

It was always harder to find folks for the tech support side, and hard to keep them. In Silicon Valley they're the stars and at FFRDCs they are make it possible for researchers to do their work.

I know folks at all the local FFRDCs. Mostly really smart and mission driven people. A lot of them could have made more money in other organizations.

Not sure I buy this point. The pay range for a "Technical AI Policy Associate" at RAND is listed at $47,100- $156,500, requiring a BA but preference for a higher degree. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC-DC-Metro-Area/Technical-AI-Policy-Associate_R3217-1)

RAND is paying a "Grants Proposal Manager" between $75,700-$112,400, requiring a high school diploma but a BA is preferred. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC/Grants-Proposal-Manager_R3234)

That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ LESS than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

*Correction: That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ MORE than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

The AI position isn't even government funded. And if they underpay, they won't get good people. Why would that be your business,.or DOGE's?

It’s my business because I’m a taxpayer and my employer (a defense contractor) has to compete with these bloated FFRDCs.

Ummm … contractors cannot do FFRDC work and Vice versa

lol FFRDCs do a ton of work that should go to for-profit companies