Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish the atheists in this forum were as entertaining as those of yore…

“Imaginary evil is romantic and varied; real evil is gloomy, monotonous, barren, boring. Imaginary good is boring; real good is always new, marvelous, intoxicating.'' Simone Weil

“We should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh.” Friedrich Nietzsche

I hope you didn't spend too much time searching for entertaining quotes by atheists of yore.

Anonymous wrote:They want to change your mind and make sure to take people away from their God. It's pretty evil in my opinion.

Anonymous wrote:I wish the atheists in this forum were as entertaining as those of yore…

“Imaginary evil is romantic and varied; real evil is gloomy, monotonous, barren, boring. Imaginary good is boring; real good is always new, marvelous, intoxicating.'' Simone Weil

“We should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once. And we should call every truth false which was not accompanied by at least one laugh.” Friedrich Nietzsche

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Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

You don’t think all the people on here trying to convince others God does not exist are trying to change the beliefs of the religious? If they are not, then what are they doing exactly? And if they are, how is that not an attempt to convert (change) someone?

Not that it’s authoritative, but Jeff discussed exactly the question of whether atheists have a belief system in his recap of this thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/weblog/2024/11/19/update111924

Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of a belief.

If you hold the position that atheism is word that describes a belief, what is your word for lack of a belief?

Atheism is the lack belief in God. It is not the lack of belief in anything. It’s fundamentally impossible as a human being not to believe in anything. Atheists have all kinds of beliefs about how the universe works. Look at how hard they are trying in this thread to convince people of these things! It’s a belief system — it’s just different from a religious one.

Please answer the question. What do you call a lack of belief in god? For example, someone who has never even considered the concept?

A belief is a firmly held opinion or conviction. That’s the dictionary definition. So to say that I do not “believe” in God — it is a belief in and of itself. You can say “I do not believe X” but that in and of itself can be a belief.

I also think that this semantic debate misses the bigger point. It’s not that atheist simply believe in “nothing” — nobody has that belief system. People who don’t believe in God make idols out of all kinds of things — work, career, success, achievement, sex, money, spouses, children, political or social causes, the need to be liked by everyone — the list goes on and on. It is ultimately what you want most in life. All of us are living for something and people who say otherwise are not being intellectually honest. All of these things become mini-gods that often times end up enslaving you yet do not forgive you when things go badly.

That's a lot of words, but none which answer the simple question asked:

If you hold the position that atheism is word that describes a belief, what is your word for lack of a belief?

Atheism is a lack of belief in God.

BUT that in and of itself is a belief. It is a firmly held conviction or opinion.

The word “belief” has multiple definitions.

I just wish you would answer the question. What is your word for lack of a belief?

Are you claiming lack of belief in a thing can't exist?

That's illogical.

Lack of belief in a thing is not a belief.

It’s not illogical when there are multiple definitions for the word “belief.” A belief is any firmly held opinion or conviction. So, yes, when you are saying “I don’t believe something exists” — that is a firmly held opinion or conviction and a belief in and of itself.

I can’t really explain it any other way.

What about your presumed lack of belief in Santa Claus. Is that a belief?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

NP Atheist
I agree with your points and I certainly never try to convert. This is a personal realization. As I do with other beliefs, I never tried to tell my own kids religion was wrong. One really became interested in Christianity and I never judged or blocked them from learning more. The only beliefs I've made sure to express disdain for is that women are less than men when news of Taliban oppression was publicized. I walked them through those sect beliefs and how they have daily experience proving that false. I give them as much information on religion (and any other subject) as I can until they beg me to stop or until I beg them to leave me alone.
I want them to respect the beliefs of others in our community so I don't judge in front of them, I barely judge it at all as I don't look down on others for subscribing to things that might help them out.

Serious question:

If you don't respect the taliban because they take women's rights away (as per their religion)...

...then why do you respect christians who are doing the exact same thing, right here in the US?

I don't lump them together, just like I don't lump Muslims together.

Forgive me, what does that mean - "I don't lump them together"? Lump whom together?

DP -- I think they mean they don't think all Christians are taking women's rights away - and do not identify with those who do. Hopefully pp will be come back and answer for themselves.

Rights granted by whom?

You must think you’re quite clever. But you are not. Granted by no one. Rights aren’t granted. That’s what makes them rights and not privileges.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

NP Atheist
I agree with your points and I certainly never try to convert. This is a personal realization. As I do with other beliefs, I never tried to tell my own kids religion was wrong. One really became interested in Christianity and I never judged or blocked them from learning more. The only beliefs I've made sure to express disdain for is that women are less than men when news of Taliban oppression was publicized. I walked them through those sect beliefs and how they have daily experience proving that false. I give them as much information on religion (and any other subject) as I can until they beg me to stop or until I beg them to leave me alone.
I want them to respect the beliefs of others in our community so I don't judge in front of them, I barely judge it at all as I don't look down on others for subscribing to things that might help them out.

Serious question:

If you don't respect the taliban because they take women's rights away (as per their religion)...

...then why do you respect christians who are doing the exact same thing, right here in the US?

I don't lump them together, just like I don't lump Muslims together.

Forgive me, what does that mean - "I don't lump them together"? Lump whom together?

DP -- I think they mean they don't think all Christians are taking women's rights away - and do not identify with those who do. Hopefully pp will be come back and answer for themselves.

Rights granted by whom?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

NP Atheist
I agree with your points and I certainly never try to convert. This is a personal realization. As I do with other beliefs, I never tried to tell my own kids religion was wrong. One really became interested in Christianity and I never judged or blocked them from learning more. The only beliefs I've made sure to express disdain for is that women are less than men when news of Taliban oppression was publicized. I walked them through those sect beliefs and how they have daily experience proving that false. I give them as much information on religion (and any other subject) as I can until they beg me to stop or until I beg them to leave me alone.
I want them to respect the beliefs of others in our community so I don't judge in front of them, I barely judge it at all as I don't look down on others for subscribing to things that might help them out.

Serious question:

If you don't respect the taliban because they take women's rights away (as per their religion)...

...then why do you respect christians who are doing the exact same thing, right here in the US?

I don't lump them together, just like I don't lump Muslims together.

Forgive me, what does that mean - "I don't lump them together"? Lump whom together?

DP -- I think they mean they don't think all Christians are taking women's rights away - and do not identify with those who do. Hopefully pp will be come back and answer for themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

You don’t think all the people on here trying to convince others God does not exist are trying to change the beliefs of the religious? If they are not, then what are they doing exactly? And if they are, how is that not an attempt to convert (change) someone?

Not that it’s authoritative, but Jeff discussed exactly the question of whether atheists have a belief system in his recap of this thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/weblog/2024/11/19/update111924

Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of a belief.

If you hold the position that atheism is word that describes a belief, what is your word for lack of a belief?

Atheism is the lack belief in God. It is not the lack of belief in anything. It’s fundamentally impossible as a human being not to believe in anything. Atheists have all kinds of beliefs about how the universe works. Look at how hard they are trying in this thread to convince people of these things! It’s a belief system — it’s just different from a religious one.

Please answer the question. What do you call a lack of belief in god? For example, someone who has never even considered the concept?

A belief is a firmly held opinion or conviction. That’s the dictionary definition. So to say that I do not “believe” in God — it is a belief in and of itself. You can say “I do not believe X” but that in and of itself can be a belief.

I also think that this semantic debate misses the bigger point. It’s not that atheist simply believe in “nothing” — nobody has that belief system. People who don’t believe in God make idols out of all kinds of things — work, career, success, achievement, sex, money, spouses, children, political or social causes, the need to be liked by everyone — the list goes on and on. It is ultimately what you want most in life. All of us are living for something and people who say otherwise are not being intellectually honest. All of these things become mini-gods that often times end up enslaving you yet do not forgive you when things go badly.

That's a lot of words, but none which answer the simple question asked:

If you hold the position that atheism is word that describes a belief, what is your word for lack of a belief?

Atheism is a lack of belief in God.

BUT that in and of itself is a belief. It is a firmly held conviction or opinion.

The word “belief” has multiple definitions.

I just wish you would answer the question. What is your word for lack of a belief?

Are you claiming lack of belief in a thing can't exist?

That's illogical.

Lack of belief in a thing is not a belief.

It’s not illogical when there are multiple definitions for the word “belief.” A belief is any firmly held opinion or conviction. So, yes, when you are saying “I don’t believe something exists” — that is a firmly held opinion or conviction and a belief in and of itself.

I can’t really explain it any other way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

NP Atheist
I agree with your points and I certainly never try to convert. This is a personal realization. As I do with other beliefs, I never tried to tell my own kids religion was wrong. One really became interested in Christianity and I never judged or blocked them from learning more. The only beliefs I've made sure to express disdain for is that women are less than men when news of Taliban oppression was publicized. I walked them through those sect beliefs and how they have daily experience proving that false. I give them as much information on religion (and any other subject) as I can until they beg me to stop or until I beg them to leave me alone.
I want them to respect the beliefs of others in our community so I don't judge in front of them, I barely judge it at all as I don't look down on others for subscribing to things that might help them out.

Serious question:

If you don't respect the taliban because they take women's rights away (as per their religion)...

...then why do you respect christians who are doing the exact same thing, right here in the US?

I don't lump them together, just like I don't lump Muslims together.

Forgive me, what does that mean - "I don't lump them together"? Lump whom together?

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Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

You don’t think all the people on here trying to convince others God does not exist are trying to change the beliefs of the religious? If they are not, then what are they doing exactly? And if they are, how is that not an attempt to convert (change) someone?

Not that it’s authoritative, but Jeff discussed exactly the question of whether atheists have a belief system in his recap of this thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/weblog/2024/11/19/update111924

Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of a belief.

If you hold the position that atheism is word that describes a belief, what is your word for lack of a belief?

Atheism is the lack belief in God. It is not the lack of belief in anything. It’s fundamentally impossible as a human being not to believe in anything. Atheists have all kinds of beliefs about how the universe works. Look at how hard they are trying in this thread to convince people of these things! It’s a belief system — it’s just different from a religious one.

Please answer the question. What do you call a lack of belief in god? For example, someone who has never even considered the concept?

A belief is a firmly held opinion or conviction. That’s the dictionary definition. So to say that I do not “believe” in God — it is a belief in and of itself. You can say “I do not believe X” but that in and of itself can be a belief.

I also think that this semantic debate misses the bigger point. It’s not that atheist simply believe in “nothing” — nobody has that belief system. People who don’t believe in God make idols out of all kinds of things — work, career, success, achievement, sex, money, spouses, children, political or social causes, the need to be liked by everyone — the list goes on and on. It is ultimately what you want most in life. All of us are living for something and people who say otherwise are not being intellectually honest. All of these things become mini-gods that often times end up enslaving you yet do not forgive you when things go badly.

That's a lot of words, but none which answer the simple question asked:

If you hold the position that atheism is word that describes a belief, what is your word for lack of a belief?

Atheism is a lack of belief in God.

BUT that in and of itself is a belief. It is a firmly held conviction or opinion.

The word “belief” has multiple definitions.

I just wish you would answer the question. What is your word for lack of a belief?

Are you claiming lack of belief in a thing can't exist?

That's illogical.

Lack of belief in a thing is not a belief.

It’s not illogical when there are multiple definitions for the word “belief.” A belief is any firmly held opinion or conviction. So, yes, when you are saying “I don’t believe something exists” — that is a firmly held opinion or conviction and a belief in and of itself.

I can’t really explain it any other way.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how sleepy the religion forum was for a while until recently, I'm guessing OP is the atheist (singular). Not sure why it brings OP so much joy to jump down the throats of theists regularly, but I guess we all have to find our purpose in life somewhere.

There is at least one atheist poster with a very distinct writing style who has been spending hours in this thread alone. I wonder if they are spiraling in a mental health episode.

Don't worry about them. Think of your own possible mental health episode.

Believing in God is still the default position in the US, so you're safe in that respect, and whether or not you voted for the guy who was elected to be our next president, you can certainly thank a lot of religious people for electing him.

And to think -- he's an atheist!

How do I know? -- I don't, but I've never put the question to an atheist who disagreed with me, although reluctantly, after some thought.

It forces us to acknowledge that all atheists are not good people. Why should they be? Believers are not all good people, despite the fact that they have lists of rules to follow, supposedly set forth by their various gods.

I am a believer and the fact that I am NOT a “moral” or “good” person is central to my faith and my conversion. I completely screwed up one marriage, was en route to screwing up the second one, and was a selfish, money and career obsessed person (very common in the DMV). I used to think that religion was just about following the rules and I didn’t do a very good job of that, so what was the point?

Then I discovered true Christianity which is that we are sinners saved by grace and that our salvation is not dependent upon our record but on Jesus’s record — which we receive when we have faith in him. Every other major world religion says “try really hard” and MAYBE it will work out OK. Christianity says exactly the opposite — it is a religion for those who admit that they are weak and in need of help. Jesus could have spent all of his time hanging out with the Pharisees and other religious leaders of the day — instead he spent his time savings sinners and being critical of the Pharisees because they were hypocrites.

This perspective on life completely changes how I relate to other people too. Instead of being judgmental and harsh towards other people, I see other people as having flaws just like I have. I can’t feel superior to anyone else when I am cognizant of my own flaws. Yet I have complete confidence because I am loved by Jesus and he died for me and my sins.

It’s a radical and liberating way of living and very different from a “moralism” competition on who follows the rules the best.

The problem isn't belief or non-belief. Faith or non-faith. It appears you were just a sh*t person. You lacked the most basic feature to be a functioning adult in modern society - empathy. Or, in your religious context, following the golden rule (which basically all religions have some form of).

Belief in a myth is not going to resolve your problems. You need mental health help. There is nothing wrong with going to therapy. You have a lot to unpack to understand why you lack empathy. If you had a wound on your hand that was beginning to fester, would you not seek out treatment? Same goes with mental.

You know, Christians often speak about trying to show our good side when we're trying to convert someone. If I judge by this thread, atheists think flinging around insults is the best way to convert people to their belief system.

+1.

Atheists do not have a belief system - not a religious belief system, anyhow. Also, I have never heard of a conversion attempt by an atheist.

Speaking for myself, it's a matter of seeing reality for what it is. Religions are made by humans. God is a supernatural phenomenon - like fairies and gnomes. Children have realized this. I know many who did. I realized it as an adult.

You don’t think all the people on here trying to convince others God does not exist are trying to change the beliefs of the religious? If they are not, then what are they doing exactly? And if they are, how is that not an attempt to convert (change) someone?

Not that it’s authoritative, but Jeff discussed exactly the question of whether atheists have a belief system in his recap of this thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/weblog/2024/11/19/update111924

Atheism is not a belief. It is a lack of a belief.

If you hold the position that atheism is word that describes a belief, what is your word for lack of a belief?

Atheism is the lack belief in God. It is not the lack of belief in anything. It’s fundamentally impossible as a human being not to believe in anything. Atheists have all kinds of beliefs about how the universe works. Look at how hard they are trying in this thread to convince people of these things! It’s a belief system — it’s just different from a religious one.

Please answer the question. What do you call a lack of belief in god? For example, someone who has never even considered the concept?

A belief is a firmly held opinion or conviction. That’s the dictionary definition. So to say that I do not “believe” in God — it is a belief in and of itself. You can say “I do not believe X” but that in and of itself can be a belief.

I also think that this semantic debate misses the bigger point. It’s not that atheist simply believe in “nothing” — nobody has that belief system. People who don’t believe in God make idols out of all kinds of things — work, career, success, achievement, sex, money, spouses, children, political or social causes, the need to be liked by everyone — the list goes on and on. It is ultimately what you want most in life. All of us are living for something and people who say otherwise are not being intellectually honest. All of these things become mini-gods that often times end up enslaving you yet do not forgive you when things go badly.

That's a lot of words, but none which answer the simple question asked:

If you hold the position that atheism is word that describes a belief, what is your word for lack of a belief?

Atheism is a lack of belief in God.

BUT that in and of itself is a belief. It is a firmly held conviction or opinion.

The word “belief” has multiple definitions.

I just wish you would answer the question. What is your word for lack of a belief?

Are you claiming lack of belief in a thing can't exist?

That's illogical.

Lack of belief in a thing is not a belief.