Anonymous wrote:The only SAHMs or WAH/WOHs that annoy me are the ones that think their path is the only correct answer and can't fathom that someone would choose differently, or have different circumstances (financial, health, etc.) that limits their choices.

Funny enough, I am currently a working mom who may soon become an expat, SAHM. Which in some ways is a bit daunting to think about, but part of me would like to get off the hamster wheel for a couple years.

Agreed, but I wonder how many people are really like that. There are SAHMs, part-time working moms, full-time working moms, super high powered full-time working moms, etc at my kids school and it isn't really ever discussed. The PTA is run by parents of all types. The only time this really comes up is when discussing things like activities and camps- eg sometimes the SAHMs might not need as much camp but I would still ask them what they are planning to do for the summer and see if their kids might want to do camp with mine. I don't really think about their situations or judge them in any way. If it works for them, it works for them, right? My working situation works for my family, I can't imagine caring about what works for another family.

Anonymous wrote:I want to know what their Plan B is when the kids leave for college or if a divorce happens.

She gets half her husband's assets in the divorce.

Anonymous wrote:I don't get why people find it so triggering to hear someone who feels busy say "I've been really busy." And the idea that you are not allowed to say this unless you have a certain number of kids or are a working mom -- the arrogance and ignorance of that attitude.

I have one kid but she has special needs that most people don't know about. I have a sibling with a substance abuse problem and a parent with physical and mental health problems. My MIL's health has started to fail as well. My DH hates his job but cannot quit for financial reasons and navigating that is exhausting. I work a flexible job so that I can be there for my DD who needs a lot of support, and what that means is that I sometimes spend much of the day taking care of her needs and then I work until 1 or 2 am in order to get my work done. That's what "flexibility" buys me -- the freedom to work when I should be sleeping because I have to parent when I should be working. We can't get by without my income.

So if I say "I'm busy" and someone thinks "omg this idiot thinks she's busy and she only has ONE child," they can kindly go **** themselves.

I don't find it "triggering" (whatever that means to you), I just don't really see the need to discuss it. It seems like some moms on this thread like bonding over that type of talk; I personally do not. I think it is one of those things that can just remain unsaid as we are all busy with different things. I work full time and have three kids in various activities; however, I work from home so don't have to worry about commute time. I personally would not feel the need to have a conversation with a mom with one kid who commutes full time where we trade that she is busy because he is on the metro 45 minutes to work each day and I share that I am busy because my kids have different activities every day.

I also don't personally think that SAHMs are inherently less busy than me- they may not work full time but maybe they have different things going on. I just don't really need to hear about it (or, on the flip side, discuss it myself) unless it is something super unique such as helping a parent recover from surgery.

The only SAHMs or WAH/WOHs that annoy me are the ones that think their path is the only correct answer and can't fathom that someone would choose differently, or have different circumstances (financial, health, etc.) that limits their choices.

Funny enough, I am currently a working mom who may soon become an expat, SAHM. Which in some ways is a bit daunting to think about, but part of me would like to get off the hamster wheel for a couple years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I think it’s fairly boring and reductive and reduce anyone to what they are doing for what is the end is probably only like 20% or 30% of their life.

I also think competency is such an underrated thing, so if you are competent and energetic about whatever you’re doing you’re like in the top 5% of people.

Huh? It’s your job that has an end date, aka your retirement. Unless the worst happens and you experience a loss, you are a wife and mother for good.

Are you one of the people that call yourself a SAHM when your kid is 30?

SAHM wasn’t in the sentence. Read it again.

So you do! Lololol. How long are you going to keep that up? Your child retires, are you still a sahm?

What’s confusing you? I never mentioned being a SAHM. When I retire yes, I will primarily identify as the wife and mother that I am. Not by my leisurely activities or volunteer work, but by those relationships, and yes I will be content with that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sure this has been said by others in the thread, but it’s weird that the title refers to JUST wives and mothers. Like, if I’m a mother and stay at home, I can’t have any other identity? I can’t have other things that will my time?

Op is quoting a tv show where this was said.

DP
Is the show of that sentiment? I ask because I like Kidman and had plans to watch it. I was an expat and loved that life because we really integrated with the culture and its still a big influence to my life. I don't need to endure mom bashing though, there's enough of that everywhere else.

Sort of? You can probably find more in the expat thread, but she moves to HK for her husband and feels lost without her job. She says "I'm not just a housewife!" a few times, and talks about how her friends back home are CEOs and artists etc. I'm not sure if it will become more relevant as the show goes on. Its also about the loss of a child, if that has any triggers for you. I'm quite enjoying it though.

Sorry for the derail!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a SAHM who is not busy now. Yes, I had a season or two of extreme business when my kids were little and even when they went to school - K-12.

Of course, there are other ways I am busy, but it is not a busy-ness with parental responsibility or responsibility of an employee.

Would have I liked to have more money? Absolutely. But, I do not want to give my time to earn more money. So I guess I have to make peace with that.

I am indeed living a leisurely life right now. And I know that in future there will be periods when I will become very busy again with other family obligations etc.

I can admit honestly that being a SAHM has been far easier, fulfilling and less stressful than being a WOHM. I loved my life as a career woman when I did not have kids. But, once my kids came along, I hated being away from them and I hated not having time. And the guilt of leaving my kids with caregivers was enormous.

Now, when my kids are out of the house and I am in my mid 50s, do I want to go back to work? Absolutely not. We have taken steps to ensure that I will never have to work for pay.

What are the steps? And how much did you need in assets to feel secure? What if something happened to your spouse? Current SAHM here.

To begin with - EDUCATION - I am very well educated (multiple degrees in STEM) and can get at least an average entry level job if I need to or even become a public school teacher.

SAVED MONEY, LOW COL - I saved every penny that I could when I was working. Paid off all student debt in the first two years of working. Saved and lived on one salary after marriage. Essentially, we lived below our means. We also bought a house that we liked in a low cost neighborhood. Our biggest cost savers were (through luck and choices) - affordable real estate, no childcare cost, no private school, no tutoring cost, no student debt etc.

HEAVILY INSURED, JOINT ASSETS - All assets are held jointly. No prenups. I am aware of financial details and participate in it. We were heavily insured with multiple insurances that would not require me to ever work if something happened to my DH and I would still be able to educate my kids and get them married and have money to live well. We staggered the coverage by buying term life insurance in such a manner that we could selectively drop the insurance as we came closer to retirement/pension years.

How much do you need in assets? You need to crunch the numbers. The fear that something would happen to my DH was a huge fear and until my kids became older and out of college, this fear remained in my heart. I am however a person who plans a lot. So it was necessary for me to come up with a number that would remove my fear. And we knew that we did not have the savings and earnings to meet the $$ amount in the present day, so our option was - life insurance. Yes, it cost us a pretty penny but it gave us a lot of confidence to go on with our decisions to have a SAH parent and not jeopardize our financial well being. My DH made sure that I would never have to work if something happened to him. His job is fairly secure and has a very generous pension plan too. So that was also something that helped us to come up with a number. We only needed coverage for a certain number of years after that his pension and benefits would come to me.

We calculated mortgage, house repairs, cost of replacing major components of the house, new cars, medical insurance, cost of college and grad school (75K per year, per kid), cost of the kids weddings, medical care, cost of running the home with help, and the money needed to maintain a good lifestyle. And all of this was needed for only a certain number of years. Once those years had come and gone, we let some of the insurance coverage lapse. Actually, some years left me feeling more vulnerable and we were constantly assessing our needs. We were lucky that our kids did not need any kind of intervention.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sure this has been said by others in the thread, but it’s weird that the title refers to JUST wives and mothers. Like, if I’m a mother and stay at home, I can’t have any other identity? I can’t have other things that will my time?

Op is quoting a tv show where this was said.

DP
Is the show of that sentiment? I ask because I like Kidman and had plans to watch it. I was an expat and loved that life because we really integrated with the culture and its still a big influence to my life. I don't need to endure mom bashing though, there's enough of that everywhere else.

Anonymous wrote:I’m sure this has been said by others in the thread, but it’s weird that the title refers to JUST wives and mothers. Like, if I’m a mother and stay at home, I can’t have any other identity? I can’t have other things that will my time?

Op is quoting a tv show where this was said.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s fairly boring and reductive and reduce anyone to what they are doing for what is the end is probably only like 20% or 30% of their life.

I also think competency is such an underrated thing, so if you are competent and energetic about whatever you’re doing you’re like in the top 5% of people.

Huh? It’s your job that has an end date, aka your retirement. Unless the worst happens and you experience a loss, you are a wife and mother for good.

Are you one of the people that call yourself a SAHM when your kid is 30?

SAHM wasn’t in the sentence. Read it again.

So you do! Lololol. How long are you going to keep that up? Your child retires, are you still a sahm?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't really think about it as a concept?

I know a few SAHMs who are the "I'm so busy I'm so busy listen to ALL THE THINGS I have to do!" type which is kind of in insufferable when it's a huge part of their personality. Not that I am judging, but it's an odd schtick and hard to be on the receiving end of because I never know how to respond. Am I supposed to share my work tasks? List my mom tasks? Tell them they are the #1 busiest? Steer the conversation to something else? When I used to SAH I did not do this, largely because I felt self-conscious.

I feel lucky to have a flexible yet fulfilling career that I am good at and recognized for, but it's not my whole personality and a career isn't necessary to be a whole person. People should be free to do what they want, but I do think it's healthy for their identities to expand beyond the boundaries of WOH or SAH.

I feel like this stems from insecurity, perhaps theyve been judged as lazy before and now make such a big fluff about how much they actually do.

I disagree because I know plenty of SAHM *and* WOHM moms that do this. I think some women bond over venting about the busyness of their lives, while recognizing that whether it’s their kids or their career, they wouldn’t change a thing. A SAHM going on and on about the chaos of travel soccer isn’t looking for you to feel bad for her, it’s more like an invitation for you to respond “ugh I totally get it! I am closing on two real estate deals tomorrow and the clients are being so difficult…let’s go grab a cocktail and forget about it all for an hour.”

+1. Yes! You get it. This is exactly it. And I complain about all of it - my kids, my work, my dogs. Whatever. It’s banter.

I'm a SAHM and I never complain about being busy (because I'm not), but lots of working parents tell me they know I must be crazy busy, and they talk about how busy they are too. I really do think it's just bonding.

If you are not busy, then your kids are small or don’t do any busy activities. I wasn’t busy either until my kids hit middle school. Now they are 13 and 16 and I honestly feel busier than when they were preschoolers.

Busier after they get home from school, you mean. They're gone the majority of the day...

Anonymous wrote:I took 9 years “off” so that I could “just” be a mom and wife. I feel great about myself. I reentered the workforce at a higher salary with an even more prestigious role. My whole family benefited from my choices.

Side question: did you do any formal training or continuing education while you were “off”? Just curious about your re-entry path as I am looking to start work again in the next couple of years and all I ever read on this board are horror stories.

I don't get why people find it so triggering to hear someone who feels busy say "I've been really busy." And the idea that you are not allowed to say this unless you have a certain number of kids or are a working mom -- the arrogance and ignorance of that attitude.

I have one kid but she has special needs that most people don't know about. I have a sibling with a substance abuse problem and a parent with physical and mental health problems. My MIL's health has started to fail as well. My DH hates his job but cannot quit for financial reasons and navigating that is exhausting. I work a flexible job so that I can be there for my DD who needs a lot of support, and what that means is that I sometimes spend much of the day taking care of her needs and then I work until 1 or 2 am in order to get my work done. That's what "flexibility" buys me -- the freedom to work when I should be sleeping because I have to parent when I should be working. We can't get by without my income.

So if I say "I'm busy" and someone thinks "omg this idiot thinks she's busy and she only has ONE child," they can kindly go **** themselves.

Anonymous wrote:I am a SAHM who is not busy now. Yes, I had a season or two of extreme business when my kids were little and even when they went to school - K-12.

Of course, there are other ways I am busy, but it is not a busy-ness with parental responsibility or responsibility of an employee.

Would have I liked to have more money? Absolutely. But, I do not want to give my time to earn more money. So I guess I have to make peace with that.

I am indeed living a leisurely life right now. And I know that in future there will be periods when I will become very busy again with other family obligations etc.

I can admit honestly that being a SAHM has been far easier, fulfilling and less stressful than being a WOHM. I loved my life as a career woman when I did not have kids. But, once my kids came along, I hated being away from them and I hated not having time. And the guilt of leaving my kids with caregivers was enormous.

Now, when my kids are out of the house and I am in my mid 50s, do I want to go back to work? Absolutely not. We have taken steps to ensure that I will never have to work for pay.

What are the steps? And how much did you need in assets to feel secure? What if something happened to your spouse? Current SAHM here.

I am a SAHM who is not busy now. Yes, I had a season or two of extreme business when my kids were little and even when they went to school - K-12.

Of course, there are other ways I am busy, but it is not a busy-ness with parental responsibility or responsibility of an employee.

Would have I liked to have more money? Absolutely. But, I do not want to give my time to earn more money. So I guess I have to make peace with that.

I am indeed living a leisurely life right now. And I know that in future there will be periods when I will become very busy again with other family obligations etc.

I can admit honestly that being a SAHM has been far easier, fulfilling and less stressful than being a WOHM. I loved my life as a career woman when I did not have kids. But, once my kids came along, I hated being away from them and I hated not having time. And the guilt of leaving my kids with caregivers was enormous.

Now, when my kids are out of the house and I am in my mid 50s, do I want to go back to work? Absolutely not. We have taken steps to ensure that I will never have to work for pay.