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Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is a mess but I'm a mom and there are few things more cruel than trying to keep a mom of very young children separated from her children. I will fight pretty much anyone on that, whether we're talking about a woman in prison or a wealthy actress in a mansion in the UK countryside. The bond between moms and babies/small kids is sacrosanct to me and I think it should only be broken if the mom is unwilling or unable to parent. The idea of someone trying to separate me from my kids at that age makes me think very dark thoughts.

Joe Jonas is absolute garbage.

Is he trying to keep them apart, or is he trying to prevent her from attempting to establish the kids primary residence in the UK now that they’re divorcing? Because of those IS cruel and one is protecting his rights as a parent.

If he is withholding the kids passports, thus forcing Sophie to come to him if she wants to be with her kids, it's cruel. The legalities of a divorce between two people with different nationalities is not my concern -- they should both have thought of that before getting married and having kids. But I just think it's cruel to attempt to separate very young children from their mother. Even if he has a legal justification for it, it's immoral. Their youngest daughter is only like 14 months old. These are babies.

It makes me feel physically unwell to think of a mother of children that age being separated from her children, for any reason other than the idea that she is an unfit mother. It's the only reason. Very young children should be with their mother if at all possible.

Is it better to separate young kids from their father? Their reality is that they are from different countries. And if they’re divorced, they could be parenting on different continents. One of them is going to have more access than the other unless they agree to live in one spot.

It’s not crazy to me that if they’d lived on one location since the kids were born and suddenly moved to England as things were going south, that the US born spouse would want to move back where they and their kids had been living. She could just as easily have pressured Joe to move to the UK months ago knowing that they were headed for a divorce and wanting to establish their residence there.

That doesn't mean that he can just go ahead and do it without notifying the other parent. He is a shady, conniving, controlling SOB and there is more about him that's going to come out.

Yeah, it’s shady, but it’s a generally messy situation. And who knows what causes the dissolution of their marriage. What if she cheated on him? Is he supposed to just let her take the kids to London and uproot his life to follow them? If they had any established residence, it was in the US. I’m not sure who is legally right here but honestly they both seem like a-holes to me who aren’t putting their kids first. She wants to pull them from their home and father in the US, and he wants them here. The real losers are the kids.

First, you are inventing a reason for the divorce that puts her 100% at fault solely to argue in favor of his behavior. Think about that. His behavior is justified IF Sophie is a villain. Ask yourself why that is.

Second, they had no established residence but it appears they were beginning to establish a residence in the UK and that Joe participated in that choice by agreeing to sell the Miami house, rent the house in the UK, and bringing the kids there and living there for several months earlier this year. At the moment, that UK house likely is the most "home"-like place the kids have.

So Sophie is not pulling them from their home in the US. They don't have one. And since Joe is the one who withheld not only passports but also the fact that he'd filed for divorce, it really looks like he's the one trying to pull them from their mom.

I didn’t invent a reason where she was solely at fault. It was just an example to refute speculative reasons that he’s completely at fault/blindsided her with his filing. None of us know what happened but this thread is very sympathetic towards her based purely on speculation about him. His behavior is understandable in the context of a divorcing couple concerned that one parent is going to establish the kids primary residence in another country. One that they’d spent a few months towards the end of their four year marriage. That is not establishing a residence there. But the longer the kids are there, the better the odds would be.

I honestly couldn’t care less who was at fault here. To me they both seem irresponsible for getting themselves into this position where they have two kids, no established residence, each fighting to have their kids live far away from the other parent. That sucks for their kids, who should come first.

I disagree his behavior is understandable. This is why the thread (and I) are favoring Sophie:

- His weird behavior around his divorce filing, including wearing his wedding ring to a concert she was also at, days after filing for divorce. And now we find out he didn't even tell her he'd filed, she found out from the news. Shady AF.

- His PR team going into overdrive to try and portray Sophie as a party girl who was not family oriented after he went public with the divorce filing. Their evidence was thin from the get go (a few photos of Sophie looking happy but not even drunk at a wrap party for the show she was filming this year). It was incredibly obvious the items about Sophie partying were planted by Joe's team and many people rightly viewed this as a tasteless effort to smear the mother of his children in the press. Tacky AF.

- Then he made this big show of taking his daughters out for brunch in LA, either tipping of paps or going where he knew they'd be, seating himself outside in full view, and ensuring they got a good show of him goofing around with his kids. He could have eaten inside, he could have had brunch at home, he went out of his way to USE his very young kids as props to make himself look like a devoted family man in the midst of a divorce. And this is after Sophie and he spent years trying to keep these same kids out of the public eye, with minimal paparazzi photos, and not even disclosing their second daughter's name publicly. Gross AF.

I see one parent who is being messy and manipulative with the press and his kids, and one who is staying mum and letting the filings, and Joe's actions, speak for themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it will be another Kelly Rutherford situation where the adults act like petulant children and fight to the death by tearing each other down in very public ways instead of acting like good parents and putting aside their failed marriage while focusing on what’s best for their kids.

Since those two don’t know how to adult let alone parent, let’s help point them in the right direction.

“Guys, you need to sit down with a mediator and commit to developing a coparenting plan. You need to keep your private family life private. You need to put your kids first and recognize they need to see two loving parents regularly. If you need help, google Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin. They made it look easy.”

Except Chris actually respects Gwyneth. In fact, she's several years older than him. Joe caught Sophie young. Some say he started going after her before she even turned 18. He gives off serious narc vibes and grew up with a lot of misogyny from his upbringing.

Anonymous wrote:So it will be another Kelly Rutherford situation where the adults act like petulant children and fight to the death by tearing each other down in very public ways instead of acting like good parents and putting aside their failed marriage while focusing on what’s best for their kids.

Since those two don’t know how to adult let alone parent, let’s help point them in the right direction.

“Guys, you need to sit down with a mediator and commit to developing a coparenting plan. You need to keep your private family life private. You need to put your kids first and recognize they need to see two loving parents regularly. If you need help, google Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin. They made it look easy.”

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Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

No, my point is this is what they should have done as a family. Seems they had agreed and he changed his mind. I know she wanted a UK education for them, which I can also appreciate. Now looks like they'll have to homeschool the kids, who will end up going back and forth.

It would equally if not more reasonable, as a family, to have the kids go to school in the US.

I don’t think he changed his mind about living in the UK. I think their marriage was failing and he became nervous that any time spent in the UK would establish his kids residence there. I completely understand his weariness of that.

Except if her filing was accurate that the older daughter had enrolled in and attended school in the UK, then it looks very much like he changed his mind. Do you enroll your kids in school when you go on a temporary trip?

some do. 🥒. FYP

I'm fluent in Gen Z social media and this one still has me flummoxed. We're talking about sending kids to school... what?

It is a reference to a famous fraud who got caught and claimed she was educated in Spain and the US. That their vacations weren’t vacations but actually living and doing to school there. It was a big fat lie.

How you say…cucumber?

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Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is a mess but I'm a mom and there are few things more cruel than trying to keep a mom of very young children separated from her children. I will fight pretty much anyone on that, whether we're talking about a woman in prison or a wealthy actress in a mansion in the UK countryside. The bond between moms and babies/small kids is sacrosanct to me and I think it should only be broken if the mom is unwilling or unable to parent. The idea of someone trying to separate me from my kids at that age makes me think very dark thoughts.

Joe Jonas is absolute garbage.

Is he trying to keep them apart, or is he trying to prevent her from attempting to establish the kids primary residence in the UK now that they’re divorcing? Because of those IS cruel and one is protecting his rights as a parent.

The kid’s primary residence is already the UK. He brought them on a trip to the US to go on tour — meaning multiple cities and zero ties.

The children’s home was always the UK. This is such a sleazy move to get a leg up in the divorce.

Don't think this is true. Weren't they in Miami for a few years? Definitely complicated.

Yes. But they sold their house there in 2022. Unclear to me that Florida even has jurisdiction in this case if the kids subsequently lived in the US & went on tour unless Joe Jonas has another residence there. Interesting that Sophie filed in NYC. I would guess she's disputing Florida even has jurisdiction. I'm sure he filed there because it was the last place in the US they permanently resided... but if that really ended in 2022, he has a problem.

Sorry, subsequently lived in the *UK* and then went on tour in the US...

According to Sophie's filing, the last time the girls stayed in the Miami house was March 10, 2023, and she and Joe entered a contract to sell the Miami property on or about April 16, 2023. So 2023, not 2022. She does say that Joe was wrong in his divorce filing to say that the kids have resided in Florida for the last six months. She filed in NYC because that is where the kids currently are with her.

Yeah but they didn’t establish residence in the UK either since they were only there for a few months in the spring. Miami is the last place they technically did have a residence by legal definition.

Well that's not quite true. If, as Sophie alleges, the family relocated to England in April with the intention of living there permanently (even though they lived in a rental while waiting for the new home to be ready in December) -- and the other facts are as she alleges (for example, that the older child attended nursery school there, that both children have activities there and do routine medical/dental appointments there, etc.) then they certainly have established residence. (Furthermore, selling the Miami property is a pretty solid indicator of their intention to sever their association with Florida and would seem to support Sophie's story.)

Going on what is essentially a vacation to accompany their father on tour doesn't strip the children of their legal residence. They just wouldn't have resided there for the UCCJEA six months, which is what makes things a little fuzzy.

Well, and Joe will presumably dispute some or all of the facts as alleged by Sophie, which is whaat makes things potentially very fuzzy.

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Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is a mess but I'm a mom and there are few things more cruel than trying to keep a mom of very young children separated from her children. I will fight pretty much anyone on that, whether we're talking about a woman in prison or a wealthy actress in a mansion in the UK countryside. The bond between moms and babies/small kids is sacrosanct to me and I think it should only be broken if the mom is unwilling or unable to parent. The idea of someone trying to separate me from my kids at that age makes me think very dark thoughts.

Joe Jonas is absolute garbage.

Is he trying to keep them apart, or is he trying to prevent her from attempting to establish the kids primary residence in the UK now that they’re divorcing? Because of those IS cruel and one is protecting his rights as a parent.

The kid’s primary residence is already the UK. He brought them on a trip to the US to go on tour — meaning multiple cities and zero ties.

The children’s home was always the UK. This is such a sleazy move to get a leg up in the divorce.

Don't think this is true. Weren't they in Miami for a few years? Definitely complicated.

Yes. But they sold their house there in 2022. Unclear to me that Florida even has jurisdiction in this case if the kids subsequently lived in the US & went on tour unless Joe Jonas has another residence there. Interesting that Sophie filed in NYC. I would guess she's disputing Florida even has jurisdiction. I'm sure he filed there because it was the last place in the US they permanently resided... but if that really ended in 2022, he has a problem.

Sorry, subsequently lived in the *UK* and then went on tour in the US...

According to Sophie's filing, the last time the girls stayed in the Miami house was March 10, 2023, and she and Joe entered a contract to sell the Miami property on or about April 16, 2023. So 2023, not 2022. She does say that Joe was wrong in his divorce filing to say that the kids have resided in Florida for the last six months. She filed in NYC because that is where the kids currently are with her.

Yeah but they didn’t establish residence in the UK either since they were only there for a few months in the spring. Miami is the last place they technically did have a residence by legal definition.

Well that's not quite true. If, as Sophie alleges, the family relocated to England in April with the intention of living there permanently (even though they lived in a rental while waiting for the new home to be ready in December) -- and the other facts are as she alleges (for example, that the older child attended nursery school there, that both children have activities there and do routine medical/dental appointments there, etc.) then they certainly have established residence. (Furthermore, selling the Miami property is a pretty solid indicator of their intention to sever their association with Florida and would seem to support Sophie's story.)

Going on what is essentially a vacation to accompany their father on tour doesn't strip the children of their legal residence. They just wouldn't have resided there for the UCCJEA six months, which is what makes things a little fuzzy.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole thing is a mess but I'm a mom and there are few things more cruel than trying to keep a mom of very young children separated from her children. I will fight pretty much anyone on that, whether we're talking about a woman in prison or a wealthy actress in a mansion in the UK countryside. The bond between moms and babies/small kids is sacrosanct to me and I think it should only be broken if the mom is unwilling or unable to parent. The idea of someone trying to separate me from my kids at that age makes me think very dark thoughts.

Joe Jonas is absolute garbage.

Is he trying to keep them apart, or is he trying to prevent her from attempting to establish the kids primary residence in the UK now that they’re divorcing? Because of those IS cruel and one is protecting his rights as a parent.

The kid’s primary residence is already the UK. He brought them on a trip to the US to go on tour — meaning multiple cities and zero ties.

The children’s home was always the UK. This is such a sleazy move to get a leg up in the divorce.

Don't think this is true. Weren't they in Miami for a few years? Definitely complicated.

Yes. But they sold their house there in 2022. Unclear to me that Florida even has jurisdiction in this case if the kids subsequently lived in the US & went on tour unless Joe Jonas has another residence there. Interesting that Sophie filed in NYC. I would guess she's disputing Florida even has jurisdiction. I'm sure he filed there because it was the last place in the US they permanently resided... but if that really ended in 2022, he has a problem.

Sorry, subsequently lived in the *UK* and then went on tour in the US...

According to Sophie's filing, the last time the girls stayed in the Miami house was March 10, 2023, and she and Joe entered a contract to sell the Miami property on or about April 16, 2023. So 2023, not 2022. She does say that Joe was wrong in his divorce filing to say that the kids have resided in Florida for the last six months. She filed in NYC because that is where the kids currently are with her.

Yeah but they didn’t establish residence in the UK either since they were only there for a few months in the spring. Miami is the last place they technically did have a residence by legal definition.

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Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

No, my point is this is what they should have done as a family. Seems they had agreed and he changed his mind. I know she wanted a UK education for them, which I can also appreciate. Now looks like they'll have to homeschool the kids, who will end up going back and forth.

It would equally if not more reasonable, as a family, to have the kids go to school in the US.

I don’t think he changed his mind about living in the UK. I think their marriage was failing and he became nervous that any time spent in the UK would establish his kids residence there. I completely understand his weariness of that.

Except if her filing was accurate that the older daughter had enrolled in and attended school in the UK, then it looks very much like he changed his mind. Do you enroll your kids in school when you go on a temporary trip?

some do. 🥒. FYP

I'm fluent in Gen Z social media and this one still has me flummoxed. We're talking about sending kids to school... what?

It is a reference to a famous fraud who got caught and claimed she was educated in Spain and the US. That their vacations weren’t vacations but actually living and doing to school there. It was a big fat lie.