Anonymous
08/09/2011 12:18
Subject: Re:My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
Anonymous wrote:For those who believe in evolution why should the intellectual standard today be the same as 50 years ago or 100 years ago?
The rate of change and doubling of knowledge is mind boggling. It makes perfect sense why Algebra may have been the endpoint a hundred years ago in high school and today this end point is reached in middle school. It also makes perfect sense why general biology may have been a high school endpoint generations ago and today it's genetics and molecular biology.
The academic and intellectual goal posts slowly move over time ... just as the sprint times have slowly lowered over time.
There is nothing heretic about 5-year-olds reading today when they barely knew the alphabet a 100 years ago. Think of the technological advances since that time which makes all this possible (telephones, TVs, computers, books, libraries, more time for parents and their surrogates to spend time with little children rather than hunting for food for the next meal).
If parents don't adapt with the time there children may be left behind.
In some regards, this is already slowly but surely happening with the shifting of the global sands and academic performance.
All that sounds good.....in theory. The truth of the matter is that even the schools are stuggling to adapt. The schools know that this "new" curriculum is not the right fit for all 5YOs...hence the move towards older classes. As a parent, I am focused on what I can do for my specific child - who is advanced in some areas, at age level in others and, GASP, behind in others.
Anonymous
08/09/2011 12:14
Subject: My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
Anonymous wrote:... Also, for example, the kids who are red-shirted cannot participate on the grade-wide soccer teams, baseball teams, etc because they don't meet the league cut-offs. It isolates the kids ....
It always seems a bit disingenuous to me when someone makes the argument that other parents should refuse to redshirt because they might be hurting their own children. I suspect most parents considering redshirting already are keenly aware of what's best for their kids when they make class placement decisions.
Anonymous
08/09/2011 12:07
Subject: My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
Anonymous wrote:
My point is this. How can a system be dumbed down when it is "accelerated" to begin with? In our day, kids skipped a grade, but the curriculum was more "age-appropriate" in my opinion. Today in this area, pre K is more akin to K in our day and K is more akin to 1st grade in our generation. So the curriculum already starts the kids off on an accelerated track. All I am saying is that perfectly capable kids are not ready for an accelerated curriculum at 5. So, if schools are not going to change the curriculum, why not put kids where they fit best academically?
While it sounds reasonable, in practice, it impacts the social and other aspects of the classroom. Teachers are stretched to meet the wide academic and social needs of the students. Also, for example, the kids who are red-shirted cannot participate on the grade-wide soccer teams, baseball teams, etc because they don't meet the league cut-offs. It isolates the kids and also hampers the right age kids from being able to field full teams.
Anonymous
08/09/2011 12:05
Subject: Re:My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
For those who believe in evolution why should the intellectual standard today be the same as 50 years ago or 100 years ago?
The rate of change and doubling of knowledge is mind boggling. It makes perfect sense why Algebra may have been the endpoint a hundred years ago in high school and today this end point is reached in middle school. It also makes perfect sense why general biology may have been a high school endpoint generations ago and today it's genetics and molecular biology.
The academic and intellectual goal posts slowly move over time ... just as the sprint times have slowly lowered over time.
There is nothing heretic about 5-year-olds reading today when they barely knew the alphabet a 100 years ago. Think of the technological advances since that time which makes all this possible (telephones, TVs, computers, books, libraries, more time for parents and their surrogates to spend time with little children rather than hunting for food for the next meal).
If parents don't adapt with the time there children may be left behind.
In some regards, this is already slowly but surely happening with the shifting of the global sands and academic performance.
The rate of change and doubling of knowledge is mind boggling. It makes perfect sense why Algebra may have been the endpoint a hundred years ago in high school and today this end point is reached in middle school. It also makes perfect sense why general biology may have been a high school endpoint generations ago and today it's genetics and molecular biology.
The academic and intellectual goal posts slowly move over time ... just as the sprint times have slowly lowered over time.
There is nothing heretic about 5-year-olds reading today when they barely knew the alphabet a 100 years ago. Think of the technological advances since that time which makes all this possible (telephones, TVs, computers, books, libraries, more time for parents and their surrogates to spend time with little children rather than hunting for food for the next meal).
If parents don't adapt with the time there children may be left behind.
In some regards, this is already slowly but surely happening with the shifting of the global sands and academic performance.
Anonymous
08/09/2011 11:54
Subject: Re:My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
1) This is a trend.
2) We were not aware of the trend until our DD was already enrolled. We had only been told that there was a requirement that DD be 4 by September 1.
3). Had we known we would have gone through a different decision-making process whch may or may not have led us to a different conclusion given that so many schools are following this trend.
4). In hindsight we thought we had enrolled DD in a pre-K class made up of 4- and 5-year-olds but what we got was a K-light (they needed to challenge the older students) class made up of 4- to 6-year-olds. We were not the only parents who were surprised by the wide range in ages and our DD was not the only child short changed by the broad and conflicting demands made on the teachers. One simple example: the 6-year-olds did not need the quiet rest time that the 4-year-olds needed and the 4-year-olds ended up not getting the time to recharge their batteries.
5) So for parents to choose what type of classroom peer group they want fir their children they need to have the information they need to make those decisions. The schools should be more forthright in defining their student bodies.
I understand your predicament in face of ignorance or lack of information.
There are no medals handed out for ignorance. It's your responsibility to find out the information you need to manage your young child's education. Your young child doesn't have the wherewithall to do this. That's why they have parents. If you depend solely on the school, or other parents, or some mythical authority you're in for big trouble.
Parenthood is a learning process, and work, and for me I am tweeking my strategy for the second child having learned with the first.
Anonymous
08/09/2011 11:38
Subject: My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
Anonymous wrote:That is the key point, in my opinion. Factoring in "issues", if kids want to play up, they should play up. However, the system shouldn't be dumbed down, as is what is happening now.
Compare this to our generation, or our parents, where kids were routinely accelerated if they wanted or needed it. It is societal and it isn't a net positive, in my opinion.
PP here. Yea, in my day, kids routinely skipped a grade. You do not hear much about that these days. But based on the logic put forth here, if a kid plays up....isn't he dumbing down the older class?
My point is this. How can a system be dumbed down when it is "accelerated" to begin with? In our day, kids skipped a grade, but the curriculum was more "age-appropriate" in my opinion. Today in this area, pre K is more akin to K in our day and K is more akin to 1st grade in our generation. So the curriculum already starts the kids off on an accelerated track. All I am saying is that perfectly capable kids are not ready for an accelerated curriculum at 5. So, if schools are not going to change the curriculum, why not put kids where they fit best academically?
Anonymous
08/09/2011 11:32
Subject: My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
The system has been sped up rather than dumbed down. When I was a kid (in a first-rate public school district in a college town), 8th grade Algebra was accelerated -- vs. 6th (public) or 7th (private) grade now. More kids go to preschool here/now than they did back then and we expect kids to read earlier.
Having accelerated everyone/thing, schools are now more likely to hold individual kids back and less likely to see the need to move individual kids forward (vs into gifted).
Having accelerated everyone/thing, schools are now more likely to hold individual kids back and less likely to see the need to move individual kids forward (vs into gifted).
Anonymous
08/09/2011 11:08
Subject: My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
That is the key point, in my opinion. Factoring in "issues", if kids want to play up, they should play up. However, the system shouldn't be dumbed down, as is what is happening now.
Compare this to our generation, or our parents, where kids were routinely accelerated if they wanted or needed it. It is societal and it isn't a net positive, in my opinion.
Compare this to our generation, or our parents, where kids were routinely accelerated if they wanted or needed it. It is societal and it isn't a net positive, in my opinion.
Anonymous
08/09/2011 10:21
Subject: Re:My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
Anonymous wrote:A PP here. As the parent of recent HS graduates, I would like to make three points to the anti-redshirters (especially the parents of younger ones).
1. If you are this worried about this issue at the K level, you are in for a VERY rocky road as your child gets older. As a PP noted, once your kid gets into MS and HS, all bets are off. There will be some grade level courses, but a lot of the courses will be ability based. So you may have a 14 YO 8th grader in the same pre-algebra class as a just turned 11YO 6th grader. You will have a 18-19YO HS senior in the same language class as a 14YO freshmen. If your kid is into sports or the arts, they will often be competing against kids who are older (especially in HS). Folks, it is a fact of life. At a certain point in your child’s student career, it WILL happen – even at private schools.
2. Your kid may be the “lead dog” right now with respect to their peers, but it often does not stay that way. For your sake, I hope and pray that you and your kid never have to deal with some of these issues from the other side. Kids (even of the same age) do not develop at the same rate. So in some cases, either academically, athletically or socialally, your kid may become the “trail dog” at some point. It will not make them any less valuable. But please bear that in mind while you are dumping on “older” kids. Calling these kids “slow” or "dinosaurs” is petty and mean.
3. As a couple of PP’s mentioned (and the point has generally been ignored), you get redshirting when the market demands an accelerated curriculum. The stuff that my kids learned in K was the stuff that my generation learned in 1st grade! Now, schools feel compelled to offer a curriculum that screams “K is the new 1st grade” because that is what parents demand. The schools realize that not all capable 5YOs are ready for the type of work. So as one PP pointed out, the schools arrange things so the child fits the system – not vice versa. That being said, at K, I would rather have my kid in classroom with kids who are at DC’s current intellectual level – I do not care how old the kids are.
I hear you
Now, the study I would like to see is how 5YOs in a class of only 5YOs compare to 5YOs in a class with some older kids. I would venture to say that the latter would have a competitive advantage over the former if and when they end up in the same classroom. They have hold to their own against older kids instead of running the table on age level kids.
That raises the question as to whether some of these folks would allow their 5YO to “play up.” One PP mentioned that the school suggested that DC start attending the reading class the next grade up – so DC was competing with older kids instead of being bored at age level. It seems to me that some of these bright and intelligent children would benefit from that. However, based on the logic of some of these parents, “redtrousering” is just a bad as redshirting.
Anonymous
08/09/2011 10:00
Subject: Re:My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
1) This is a trend.
2) We were not aware of the trend until our DD was already enrolled. We had only been told that there was a requirement that DD be 4 by September 1.
3). Had we known we would have gone through a different decision-making process whch may or may not have led us to a different conclusion given that so many schools are following this trend.
4). In hindsight we thought we had enrolled DD in a pre-K class made up of 4- and 5-year-olds but what we got was a K-light (they needed to challenge the older students) class made up of 4- to 6-year-olds. We were not the only parents who were surprised by the wide range in ages and our DD was not the only child short changed by the broad and conflicting demands made on the teachers. One simple example: the 6-year-olds did not need the quiet rest time that the 4-year-olds needed and the 4-year-olds ended up not getting the time to recharge their batteries.
5) So for parents to choose what type of classroom peer group they want fir their children they need to have the information they need to make those decisions. The schools should be more forthright in defining their student bodies.
2) We were not aware of the trend until our DD was already enrolled. We had only been told that there was a requirement that DD be 4 by September 1.
3). Had we known we would have gone through a different decision-making process whch may or may not have led us to a different conclusion given that so many schools are following this trend.
4). In hindsight we thought we had enrolled DD in a pre-K class made up of 4- and 5-year-olds but what we got was a K-light (they needed to challenge the older students) class made up of 4- to 6-year-olds. We were not the only parents who were surprised by the wide range in ages and our DD was not the only child short changed by the broad and conflicting demands made on the teachers. One simple example: the 6-year-olds did not need the quiet rest time that the 4-year-olds needed and the 4-year-olds ended up not getting the time to recharge their batteries.
5) So for parents to choose what type of classroom peer group they want fir their children they need to have the information they need to make those decisions. The schools should be more forthright in defining their student bodies.
Anonymous
08/09/2011 09:51
Subject: Re:My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
A PP here. As the parent of recent HS graduates, I would like to make three points to the anti-redshirters (especially the parents of younger ones).
1. If you are this worried about this issue at the K level, you are in for a VERY rocky road as your child gets older. As a PP noted, once your kid gets into MS and HS, all bets are off. There will be some grade level courses, but a lot of the courses will be ability based. So you may have a 14 YO 8th grader in the same pre-algebra class as a just turned 11YO 6th grader. You will have a 18-19YO HS senior in the same language class as a 14YO freshmen. If your kid is into sports or the arts, they will often be competing against kids who are older (especially in HS). Folks, it is a fact of life. At a certain point in your child’s student career, it WILL happen – even at private schools.
2. Your kid may be the “lead dog” right now with respect to their peers, but it often does not stay that way. For your sake, I hope and pray that you and your kid never have to deal with some of these issues from the other side. Kids (even of the same age) do not develop at the same rate. So in some cases, either academically, athletically or socialally, your kid may become the “trail dog” at some point. It will not make them any less valuable. But please bear that in mind while you are dumping on “older” kids. Calling these kids “slow” or "dinosaurs” is petty and mean.
3. As a couple of PP’s mentioned (and the point has generally been ignored), you get redshirting when the market demands an accelerated curriculum. The stuff that my kids learned in K was the stuff that my generation learned in 1st grade! Now, schools feel compelled to offer a curriculum that screams “K is the new 1st grade” because that is what parents demand. The schools realize that not all capable 5YOs are ready for the type of work. So as one PP pointed out, the schools arrange things so the child fits the system – not vice versa. That being said, at K, I would rather have my kid in classroom with kids who are at DC’s current intellectual level – I do not care how old the kids are.
1. If you are this worried about this issue at the K level, you are in for a VERY rocky road as your child gets older. As a PP noted, once your kid gets into MS and HS, all bets are off. There will be some grade level courses, but a lot of the courses will be ability based. So you may have a 14 YO 8th grader in the same pre-algebra class as a just turned 11YO 6th grader. You will have a 18-19YO HS senior in the same language class as a 14YO freshmen. If your kid is into sports or the arts, they will often be competing against kids who are older (especially in HS). Folks, it is a fact of life. At a certain point in your child’s student career, it WILL happen – even at private schools.
2. Your kid may be the “lead dog” right now with respect to their peers, but it often does not stay that way. For your sake, I hope and pray that you and your kid never have to deal with some of these issues from the other side. Kids (even of the same age) do not develop at the same rate. So in some cases, either academically, athletically or socialally, your kid may become the “trail dog” at some point. It will not make them any less valuable. But please bear that in mind while you are dumping on “older” kids. Calling these kids “slow” or "dinosaurs” is petty and mean.
3. As a couple of PP’s mentioned (and the point has generally been ignored), you get redshirting when the market demands an accelerated curriculum. The stuff that my kids learned in K was the stuff that my generation learned in 1st grade! Now, schools feel compelled to offer a curriculum that screams “K is the new 1st grade” because that is what parents demand. The schools realize that not all capable 5YOs are ready for the type of work. So as one PP pointed out, the schools arrange things so the child fits the system – not vice versa. That being said, at K, I would rather have my kid in classroom with kids who are at DC’s current intellectual level – I do not care how old the kids are.
Anonymous
08/09/2011 09:14
Subject: Re:My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
So what if this is true. This should not affect the intelligence and performance of your own child in any material way.
Anonymous
08/09/2011 09:11
Subject: My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
It is really summer boys being redshirted girls with summer birthdays are often admitted.
Anonymous
08/09/2011 08:45
Subject: Re:My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
Anonymous wrote:I want the schools to change the cut off. At least then we would know what we were getting into.
I have a 5 Year old DS who will start K at a top private. He is my oldest, so I am new to this. No one said a thing about his age during the application process. I was told it was a September cut off, which would make him somewhere in the middle.
If there are already lots of six year olds in his class, I am going to be very disappointed. Although he can probably hold his own, that is an unfair and artificial manipulation of the peer group.
I have Two daughters, ages 3 and 1, and there is no i am sending them to a school where this is rampant. They are April and June birthdays.
Why is no one talking about how this affects the girls? By middle school, this has got to suck for the girls.
Why?
Anonymous
08/09/2011 08:42
Subject: Re:My son's kindergarten class has several 7 yr olds in it.
Anonymous wrote:A dinosaur--as in "very old and very big". For example, "Thanks for sharing with all of us that your 12 year old, 5 1/2 feet tall, 4th grader did well on his test! You must be so proud!"
Can I say that I'm proud that my 5'3", 120 lb rising 9th grader is doing well?