Anonymous wrote:Not every couple wants to or can afford to delegate pregnancy, labor, breastfeeding and post-partum phase to surrogates and childcare to nannies. Women are at disadvantage in this world and instead of judging each other’s choices without knowing the circumstances, we should work for an array of choices suitable for all women and their families.

It would have cost us more to hire a nanny or day care than what I brought home in a helping profession with a masters degree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most women are young and naive when they makes decision to become SAHM, it’s mostly due to circumstance and societal conditioning. Once they do, it becomes difficult to leave all the responsibilities, by the time kids are out of high school, they are in midlife or often peri menopause and it’s been so long they find it intimidating to go back to the world. With lack of experience and up to date certifications as well as advancement in their fields, all they can get it often not attractive enough to leave their psychological barriers. It’s not taken seriously by the society but there should be system in place to help them with this transition.

Agree with this. I’ve seen this happen to most UMC SAHMs I know. When they quit their jobs, they seem naive to the longer term repercussions. They end up taking on the bulk of housework and childcare and their husband is fully trained that their wife handles all of that. Over time, they losing earning power while their husband continues to earn more money. They end up in a position where it doesn’t make sense to return to work.

I sort of agree with the first PP, don’t agree with the second. I don’t know any UMC SAHMs who didn’t consider how much income they would be losing out on. And yeah obviously you’re going to take on the bulk of the housework and childcare, that’s not going to be a shock either. I am in a position where it doesn’t make sense to return to work and I see nothing wrong with that!

But the first PP is into something with how it would be nice for society to make adjustments so it’s easier for SAHMs to transition back to work or other things. There is a lot of age discrimination out there and everyone has a bias against older people learning new things. It’s like at a certain age we don’t think it’s okay to tackle something we aren’t already good at, so we’re too embarrassed to try. But in my law school class there were several women who started after becoming empty nesters and they were badasses. It seemed like they didn’t take it for granted like some of us did and had a lot of drive. They got high grades and got good jobs after graduation. I don’t know what life holds in store for me but I always think about those women and how I want to be like them.

I looked at the money we were saving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most women are young and naive when they makes decision to become SAHM, it’s mostly due to circumstance and societal conditioning. Once they do, it becomes difficult to leave all the responsibilities, by the time kids are out of high school, they are in midlife or often peri menopause and it’s been so long they find it intimidating to go back to the world. With lack of experience and up to date certifications as well as advancement in their fields, all they can get it often not attractive enough to leave their psychological barriers. It’s not taken seriously by the society but there should be system in place to help them with this transition.

Lates 30s, professional degree, 15+ years of experience when I started SAH. I would like to see backup statistics for your assertion. I have met far more SAH women in my situation than the one you described.

Late 30’s with 15+ experience isn’t where most young women start.

In DC it definitely is.

from my DMV experience, the SAHMs I know are roughly divided between the camps of 15+ and <10 years of experience. Those in the latter had not always broken through to full management positions, so not a lot of advancement in their fields.

This. Not everyone waits to have children until they are inching towards infertility. Many prefer to have kids between 25-30.

Not in DC. I was 35 and 38 when I had my kids, which is pretty much the same as everyone else in my community and 80% of the families at our school. I SAH and freelance when I can now. I had 18 years in the workforce before stepping out to shift gears. Incidentally, I also supported DH through grad school so any judgment from other people rolls off me and I can see it for the insecurity it is.

This sounds off.

Everyone in my circle had their first kid right around 30. I knew one couple from grad school who had their first kid at 25. And I knew two others who had a first kid near 40. Everyone else was right around 30. By 35 were long done with baby showers.

Off for who? You?

Not every couple wants to or can afford to delegate pregnancy, labor, breastfeeding and post-partum phase to surrogates and childcare to nannies. Women are at disadvantage in this world and instead of judging each other’s choices without knowing the circumstances, we should work for an array of choices suitable for all women and their families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither nature nor society is favorable to women, at least we should stick together and lift each other up even if we are making different choices.

This^.

+2

As long as women are the ones actually having the babies, and we also live in a world structured by men, this is going to be a challenge for women.

I've recently spent time researching the paid leave/subsidized childcare/subsidized parenting policies in many European countries. What is interesting is that none of these policies eliminate the underlying issues around how individual women will choose to handle work and family. European culture has plenty of built in misogyny (some countries are much worse than the US in certain ways), so it's not some utopia for women. There is still this catch-22 where certain forces think women should be at home with their children, and other forces think a woman who does that is automatically "lazy" because she doesn't have a "real job". It's a lot of the same arguments you seen in this thread.

The main difference is that whatever a woman chooses, there actual is some social support for it. Most European countries offer significantly more parental leave than in the US, and in some countries (mostly Scandinavia but not exclusively) men are given and expected to take leave as well. Subsidized childcare of some kind is pretty much universal. So if a woman wants to return to work, she gets a long leave, her right to return is protected, AND the cost of childcare is reasonable regardless of her income level or how it measures against her husbands.

But likewise, these countries also tend to have policies that make being a SAHM easier to. The biggest ones being the pro-birthrate policies that give money to families for kids. So a family that wants a SAHP will have some guaranteed income that will help compensate for the loss of one income. Some countries also offer other benefits for families, in an effort to encourage people to have kids and have more kids. I'd be curious to know if this has led to more SAHDs in these countries but haven't found data on it yet. It's a big benefit for families of all kinds (dual-income families generally get these payments too).

Being a mother isn't really "easy" anywhere in the world, and mothers come in for criticism and misogyny pretty much everywhere. But if women here were a bit more united in arguing for better conditions for mothers, full stop, maybe we'd have policies like those in Europe that make life better for women regardless of their career and family choices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most women are young and naive when they makes decision to become SAHM, it’s mostly due to circumstance and societal conditioning. Once they do, it becomes difficult to leave all the responsibilities, by the time kids are out of high school, they are in midlife or often peri menopause and it’s been so long they find it intimidating to go back to the world. With lack of experience and up to date certifications as well as advancement in their fields, all they can get it often not attractive enough to leave their psychological barriers. It’s not taken seriously by the society but there should be system in place to help them with this transition.

Lates 30s, professional degree, 15+ years of experience when I started SAH. I would like to see backup statistics for your assertion. I have met far more SAH women in my situation than the one you described.

Late 30’s with 15+ experience isn’t where most young women start.

In DC it definitely is.

from my DMV experience, the SAHMs I know are roughly divided between the camps of 15+ and <10 years of experience. Those in the latter had not always broken through to full management positions, so not a lot of advancement in their fields.

This. Not everyone waits to have children until they are inching towards infertility. Many prefer to have kids between 25-30.

Not in DC. I was 35 and 38 when I had my kids, which is pretty much the same as everyone else in my community and 80% of the families at our school. I SAH and freelance when I can now. I had 18 years in the workforce before stepping out to shift gears. Incidentally, I also supported DH through grad school so any judgment from other people rolls off me and I can see it for the insecurity it is.

This sounds off.

Everyone in my circle had their first kid right around 30. I knew one couple from grad school who had their first kid at 25. And I knew two others who had a first kid near 40. Everyone else was right around 30. By 35 were long done with baby showers.

Fatherhood should be elevated to the level of motherhood so similar high ground and similar sacrifice is expected from both parents.

Work inside, work outside, volunteer, take leave, go back, don’t go back, just be good people. That should make enough difference. It’s like the people volunteering or visiting for an hour at old home and thinking they are Mother Teresa but not respecting people taking care of their old parents 24/7/365 for a decade or more. Same way, picking up kid from daycare at 7 and putting to bed in a separate room at 8.30 feel free to judge mothers spending 24/7/365 or a decade or more on top of household work. All while daycare and elder care work is considered hard work if done for someone else, outside your home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most women are young and naive when they makes decision to become SAHM, it’s mostly due to circumstance and societal conditioning. Once they do, it becomes difficult to leave all the responsibilities, by the time kids are out of high school, they are in midlife or often peri menopause and it’s been so long they find it intimidating to go back to the world. With lack of experience and up to date certifications as well as advancement in their fields, all they can get it often not attractive enough to leave their psychological barriers. It’s not taken seriously by the society but there should be system in place to help them with this transition.

Agree with this. I’ve seen this happen to most UMC SAHMs I know. When they quit their jobs, they seem naive to the longer term repercussions. They end up taking on the bulk of housework and childcare and their husband is fully trained that their wife handles all of that. Over time, they losing earning power while their husband continues to earn more money. They end up in a position where it doesn’t make sense to return to work.

I sort of agree with the first PP, don’t agree with the second. I don’t know any UMC SAHMs who didn’t consider how much income they would be losing out on. And yeah obviously you’re going to take on the bulk of the housework and childcare, that’s not going to be a shock either. I am in a position where it doesn’t make sense to return to work and I see nothing wrong with that!

But the first PP is into something with how it would be nice for society to make adjustments so it’s easier for SAHMs to transition back to work or other things. There is a lot of age discrimination out there and everyone has a bias against older people learning new things. It’s like at a certain age we don’t think it’s okay to tackle something we aren’t already good at, so we’re too embarrassed to try. But in my law school class there were several women who started after becoming empty nesters and they were badasses. It seemed like they didn’t take it for granted like some of us did and had a lot of drive. They got high grades and got good jobs after graduation. I don’t know what life holds in store for me but I always think about those women and how I want to be like them.

Yup. Understanding, accepting and helping other women live THEIR lives and reach THEIR goals is the best gift women can offer each other. My way or highway is just insecure bully’s defense to feel good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most women are young and naive when they makes decision to become SAHM, it’s mostly due to circumstance and societal conditioning. Once they do, it becomes difficult to leave all the responsibilities, by the time kids are out of high school, they are in midlife or often peri menopause and it’s been so long they find it intimidating to go back to the world. With lack of experience and up to date certifications as well as advancement in their fields, all they can get it often not attractive enough to leave their psychological barriers. It’s not taken seriously by the society but there should be system in place to help them with this transition.

Agree with this. I’ve seen this happen to most UMC SAHMs I know. When they quit their jobs, they seem naive to the longer term repercussions. They end up taking on the bulk of housework and childcare and their husband is fully trained that their wife handles all of that. Over time, they losing earning power while their husband continues to earn more money. They end up in a position where it doesn’t make sense to return to work.

And… what’s wrong with that? That woman got time with her children, is still married, still has a home and food. Maybe she thinks it was a good trade off.
I think it’s more naive when young women embark on “big careers” thinking they can do it all bc they are special.

+1. It was a great tradeoff for us. If I were working full-time, DH would likely need to stay in gov't so he could do his share of household stuff and have work-life balance. Which means his salary caps somewhere north of $150k, while I was making $100k. Since I leaned out, he went private sector and now makes $350k and rising and our lives are so chill and relaxed. Our retirement and college savings are all on track. We are incredibly lucky. Just because we made a different choice than many of you, doesn't mean it's bad and doesn't mean your choices aren't the best for you.

If it works for you, enjoy your blessings. If you want change at some point, find your new balance. You got nothing to prove to anyone nor have a need to live your life to fit into society’s perfect minion mold.

Anonymous wrote:Neither nature nor society is favorable to women, at least we should stick together and lift each other up even if we are making different choices.

This^.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most women are young and naive when they makes decision to become SAHM, it’s mostly due to circumstance and societal conditioning. Once they do, it becomes difficult to leave all the responsibilities, by the time kids are out of high school, they are in midlife or often peri menopause and it’s been so long they find it intimidating to go back to the world. With lack of experience and up to date certifications as well as advancement in their fields, all they can get it often not attractive enough to leave their psychological barriers. It’s not taken seriously by the society but there should be system in place to help them with this transition.

Agree with this. I’ve seen this happen to most UMC SAHMs I know. When they quit their jobs, they seem naive to the longer term repercussions. They end up taking on the bulk of housework and childcare and their husband is fully trained that their wife handles all of that. Over time, they losing earning power while their husband continues to earn more money. They end up in a position where it doesn’t make sense to return to work.

And… what’s wrong with that? That woman got time with her children, is still married, still has a home and food. Maybe she thinks it was a good trade off.
I think it’s more naive when young women embark on “big careers” thinking they can do it all bc they are special.

+1. It was a great tradeoff for us. If I were working full-time, DH would likely need to stay in gov't so he could do his share of household stuff and have work-life balance. Which means his salary caps somewhere north of $150k, while I was making $100k. Since I leaned out, he went private sector and now makes $350k and rising and our lives are so chill and relaxed. Our retirement and college savings are all on track. We are incredibly lucky. Just because we made a different choice than many of you, doesn't mean it's bad and doesn't mean your choices aren't the best for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most women are young and naive when they makes decision to become SAHM, it’s mostly due to circumstance and societal conditioning. Once they do, it becomes difficult to leave all the responsibilities, by the time kids are out of high school, they are in midlife or often peri menopause and it’s been so long they find it intimidating to go back to the world. With lack of experience and up to date certifications as well as advancement in their fields, all they can get it often not attractive enough to leave their psychological barriers. It’s not taken seriously by the society but there should be system in place to help them with this transition.

Lates 30s, professional degree, 15+ years of experience when I started SAH. I would like to see backup statistics for your assertion. I have met far more SAH women in my situation than the one you described.

Late 30’s with 15+ experience isn’t where most young women start.

Disagree albeit on a purely anecdotal level; I was 36 when I left my career and it was a calculated choice we made including the consideration of so many different factors. In THIS area, close in NOVA, Montgomery County and the District, I find that this is the norm, not the exception. I have yet to meet a you g twenty something who stayed home by default like in ye olden 1950s.
My spouse and I have a partnership, centered around our family’s emotional health and our financial freedom, and it is a modern marriage that I see mirrored in countless couples we know.
This is not your mama’s SAHM type of situation honey.

Your last sentence killed your whole post by showing disrespectfully judgmental and defensive behavior. Anyone comfortable in their own skin wouldn’t feel this need to take cheap shots.

Lol. You are clearly insecure in your own life choices to seek validation in the pages of DCUM. The previous posters are pretending that this is some 19050s marginalized housewife situation and it is simply NOT the case. These are professional women in droves choosing a situation that works for them and the judgment being displayed here is grotesque.

Everybody is consciously or subconsciously insecure in their own life choices and seeking validation in general. That’s called being human, narcism with delusion of grandeur is an exception.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most women are young and naive when they makes decision to become SAHM, it’s mostly due to circumstance and societal conditioning. Once they do, it becomes difficult to leave all the responsibilities, by the time kids are out of high school, they are in midlife or often peri menopause and it’s been so long they find it intimidating to go back to the world. With lack of experience and up to date certifications as well as advancement in their fields, all they can get it often not attractive enough to leave their psychological barriers. It’s not taken seriously by the society but there should be system in place to help them with this transition.

Lates 30s, professional degree, 15+ years of experience when I started SAH. I would like to see backup statistics for your assertion. I have met far more SAH women in my situation than the one you described.

Late 30’s with 15+ experience isn’t where most young women start.

In DC it definitely is.

from my DMV experience, the SAHMs I know are roughly divided between the camps of 15+ and <10 years of experience. Those in the latter had not always broken through to full management positions, so not a lot of advancement in their fields.

This. Not everyone waits to have children until they are inching towards infertility. Many prefer to have kids between 25-30.

Not in DC. I was 35 and 38 when I had my kids, which is pretty much the same as everyone else in my community and 80% of the families at our school. I SAH and freelance when I can now. I had 18 years in the workforce before stepping out to shift gears. Incidentally, I also supported DH through grad school so any judgment from other people rolls off me and I can see it for the insecurity it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most women are young and naive when they makes decision to become SAHM, it’s mostly due to circumstance and societal conditioning. Once they do, it becomes difficult to leave all the responsibilities, by the time kids are out of high school, they are in midlife or often peri menopause and it’s been so long they find it intimidating to go back to the world. With lack of experience and up to date certifications as well as advancement in their fields, all they can get it often not attractive enough to leave their psychological barriers. It’s not taken seriously by the society but there should be system in place to help them with this transition.

Agree with this. I’ve seen this happen to most UMC SAHMs I know. When they quit their jobs, they seem naive to the longer term repercussions. They end up taking on the bulk of housework and childcare and their husband is fully trained that their wife handles all of that. Over time, they losing earning power while their husband continues to earn more money. They end up in a position where it doesn’t make sense to return to work.

I sort of agree with the first PP, don’t agree with the second. I don’t know any UMC SAHMs who didn’t consider how much income they would be losing out on. And yeah obviously you’re going to take on the bulk of the housework and childcare, that’s not going to be a shock either. I am in a position where it doesn’t make sense to return to work and I see nothing wrong with that!

But the first PP is into something with how it would be nice for society to make adjustments so it’s easier for SAHMs to transition back to work or other things. There is a lot of age discrimination out there and everyone has a bias against older people learning new things. It’s like at a certain age we don’t think it’s okay to tackle something we aren’t already good at, so we’re too embarrassed to try. But in my law school class there were several women who started after becoming empty nesters and they were badasses. It seemed like they didn’t take it for granted like some of us did and had a lot of drive. They got high grades and got good jobs after graduation. I don’t know what life holds in store for me but I always think about those women and how I want to be like them.