FWIW, I think Putin is desperately trying to involve other countries in the war - Belorussia, China. He knows he’s losing. It’s a way out to get others involved.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
From CNN live updates:

US President Joe Biden called Russian President Vladimir Putin a "pure thug" while speaking at a St. Patrick's Day event Thursday.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-17-22/index.html

Highly undiplomatic... but perfectly true.

So is Biden deliberately provoking Putin? Is this a well thought out strategy or just reckless verbiage?

What’s reckless? It’s the truth.

Anonymous wrote:
From CNN live updates:

US President Joe Biden called Russian President Vladimir Putin a "pure thug" while speaking at a St. Patrick's Day event Thursday.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-17-22/index.html

Highly undiplomatic... but perfectly true.

So is Biden deliberately provoking Putin? Is this a well thought out strategy or just reckless verbiage?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An American, Jim Hill, is confirmed to have died in the shelling on the city of Chernihiv. He was in Ukraine with his partner, Ira, who was being treated in a hospital there for MS.

His Facebook page is public if you want to read back what they were going through. https://www.facebook.com/jimmy.hill.52206

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/17/world/ukraine-russia-war?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur#an-american-who-traveled-to-ukraine-for-partners-treatment-is-killed

Remember Biden's words: "Though I’ve been clear that if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

Do you have evidence that this person was specifically targeted?

He was targeted with other civilians.

"He was waiting in a bread line with several other people when they were gunned down>"

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-europe-7bd65771d5e1cb290bf35ad13caad578/gallery/744d3e6e046347c0b95269fb9e7734df

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An American, Jim Hill, is confirmed to have died in the shelling on the city of Chernihiv. He was in Ukraine with his partner, Ira, who was being treated in a hospital there for MS.

His Facebook page is public if you want to read back what they were going through. https://www.facebook.com/jimmy.hill.52206

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/17/world/ukraine-russia-war?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur#an-american-who-traveled-to-ukraine-for-partners-treatment-is-killed

Remember Biden's words: "Though I’ve been clear that if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

Do you have evidence that this person was specifically targeted?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An American, Jim Hill, is confirmed to have died in the shelling on the city of Chernihiv. He was in Ukraine with his partner, Ira, who was being treated in a hospital there for MS.

His Facebook page is public if you want to read back what they were going through. https://www.facebook.com/jimmy.hill.52206

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/17/world/ukraine-russia-war?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur#an-american-who-traveled-to-ukraine-for-partners-treatment-is-killed

Remember Biden's words: "Though I’ve been clear that if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

He wasn’t targeted. He was but one of many innocent civilians killed during Russian attacks on the city

Anonymous wrote:An American, Jim Hill, is confirmed to have died in the shelling on the city of Chernihiv. He was in Ukraine with his partner, Ira, who was being treated in a hospital there for MS.

His Facebook page is public if you want to read back what they were going through. https://www.facebook.com/jimmy.hill.52206

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/17/world/ukraine-russia-war?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur#an-american-who-traveled-to-ukraine-for-partners-treatment-is-killed

Remember Biden's words: "Though I’ve been clear that if Russia targets Americans in Ukraine, we will respond forcefully.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the "military" thread but didn't get much feedback, so I'm also posting it on this thread.

Curious for your thoughts on this: is there a chance that Putin actually wants to draw NATO into Ukraine in order to ignite a broader conflict? Perhaps, so far, he has been fighting with one arm behind his back, and he will only swing with both fists once NATO forces enter Ukraine. Additionally, with NATO deployed in Ukraine, is there a risk that China would then enter the conflict, fighting alongside of Russia?

You probably didn't get an answer since it is an utterly ridiculous idea! Why would he want a broader conflict? Why would he want NATO in Ukraine? He is counting on NATO not interfering, that is why he tested so many of his supersonic missiles.
Why would he want to fight NATO in Ukraine? What does he gain from fighting an extremely strong military alliance?
One that is led by the militarily most advanced and best equipped country in the world?

I got two responses on the other thread: one indicating that it is indeed possible that he wishes to draw NATO into the conflict, and the another sharing your view.

In regard to drawing NATO in, the reasoning is this: by broadening the war into a battle against the entire West, he could potentially galvanize the Russian population into an even greater level of support, and perhaps mask the fact that the Russian government is indeed the bad guy in this war.

A war against the West would be, in the eyes of many Russians, validation of Putin's belief that the West did not cease to be Russia's enemy at the end of the Cold War, but rather has continued to harbor a desire to destroy Russia. Never mind that Putin began this conflict. That point would be lost in the ensuring chaos. The average Russian would know only this: NATO is out to destroy Russia, and Russia must rise to the challenge.

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the "military" thread but didn't get much feedback, so I'm also posting it on this thread.

Curious for your thoughts on this: is there a chance that Putin actually wants to draw NATO into Ukraine in order to ignite a broader conflict? Perhaps, so far, he has been fighting with one arm behind his back, and he will only swing with both fists once NATO forces enter Ukraine. Additionally, with NATO deployed in Ukraine, is there a risk that China would then enter the conflict, fighting alongside of Russia?

No, I don't think Russia is holding back right now. But, yes, he does seem to be trying to provoke a direct response from NATO - perhaps because then he can rally the Russians around a war against NATO instead of one against just their Slavic brothers.

And sure there's a risk China would come to Russia's assistance if NATO entered the war. That's why Biden said it would start WW3.

There seems to be the beginnings of an "axis of authoritarians" setting up - Russia, Belarus, China --- and then there a bunch of countries who are thinking about it, like UAE, Saudi Arabia, India, Brazil, Serbia... This is a very fraught moment. In a tense environment like this, wars often start accidentally, and Biden and NATO are doing everything they can to prevent that from happening.

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the "military" thread but didn't get much feedback, so I'm also posting it on this thread.

Curious for your thoughts on this: is there a chance that Putin actually wants to draw NATO into Ukraine in order to ignite a broader conflict? Perhaps, so far, he has been fighting with one arm behind his back, and he will only swing with both fists once NATO forces enter Ukraine. Additionally, with NATO deployed in Ukraine, is there a risk that China would then enter the conflict, fighting alongside of Russia?

You probably didn't get an answer since it is an utterly ridiculous idea! Why would he want a broader conflict? Why would he want NATO in Ukraine? He is counting on NATO not interfering, that is why he tested so many of his supersonic missiles.
Why would he want to fight NATO in Ukraine? What does he gain from fighting an extremely strong military alliance?
One that is led by the militarily most advanced and best equipped country in the world?

I posted this on the "military" thread but didn't get much feedback, so I'm also posting it on this thread.

Curious for your thoughts on this: is there a chance that Putin actually wants to draw NATO into Ukraine in order to ignite a broader conflict? Perhaps, so far, he has been fighting with one arm behind his back, and he will only swing with both fists once NATO forces enter Ukraine. Additionally, with NATO deployed in Ukraine, is there a risk that China would then enter the conflict, fighting alongside of Russia?

An American, Jim Hill, is confirmed to have died in the shelling on the city of Chernihiv. He was in Ukraine with his partner, Ira, who was being treated in a hospital there for MS.

His Facebook page is public if you want to read back what they were going through. https://www.facebook.com/jimmy.hill.52206

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/17/world/ukraine-russia-war?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur#an-american-who-traveled-to-ukraine-for-partners-treatment-is-killed

Anonymous wrote:
From CNN live updates:

US President Joe Biden called Russian President Vladimir Putin a "pure thug" while speaking at a St. Patrick's Day event Thursday.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-17-22/index.html

Highly undiplomatic... but perfectly true.

He also called him a war criminal yesterday. Telling it like it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Elites are fleeing like rats. They're either spooked by Putin's speech yesterday or they know something bad is going down.

]

He pretty openly announced he was coming after them. I'd be fleeing too.

From CNN live updates:

US President Joe Biden called Russian President Vladimir Putin a "pure thug" while speaking at a St. Patrick's Day event Thursday.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-17-22/index.html

Highly undiplomatic... but perfectly true.