Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bread doesn't need any sugar!
Sure, some bread recipes call for sugar, but plenty of breads do not need any sugar at all.
I bake baguettes that have no sugar at all.

Yes, but even if you put 1 flat tbsp (15 g) of sugar per 400 g of flour it does not make any significant difference.

Because

400 g of flour = 304 grams of simple carbohydrates.

15 g of sugar = 15 grams of simple carbohydrates.

So I am adding only 15 g to 304 g of carbs.

And if I eat one slice of bread per day I will only consume 2 grams of added sugar.

Pople who want to lose weight need to realise that calories and carbs are what really matters, not 2 grams of added sugar. Again, see American Diabetes Association.

They’re still pushing the same low fat, keep eating carbs nonsense as ever. https://www.diabetesfoodhub.org/articles/what-is-the-diabetes-plate-method.html#:~:text=The%20Diabetes%20Plate%20Method%20is,you%20need%20is%20a%20plate! (This link came from the American Diabetes Association website). Granted, they recommend whole carbohydrates, but if people are having trouble with their sugars, the advice shouldn’t be “keep eating the things that spike blood sugar at every meal and certainly don’t add fat to blunt it.”

What the ada is recommending is perfectly reasonable. Whole grains are good for you and have a place in a balanced diet in moderation. Cutting out entire food groups is why people fail diets

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bread doesn't need any sugar!
Sure, some bread recipes call for sugar, but plenty of breads do not need any sugar at all.
I bake baguettes that have no sugar at all.

Yes, but even if you put 1 flat tbsp (15 g) of sugar per 400 g of flour it does not make any significant difference.

Because

400 g of flour = 304 grams of simple carbohydrates.

15 g of sugar = 15 grams of simple carbohydrates.

So I am adding only 15 g to 304 g of carbs.

And if I eat one slice of bread per day I will only consume 2 grams of added sugar.

Pople who want to lose weight need to realise that calories and carbs are what really matters, not 2 grams of added sugar. Again, see American Diabetes Association.

They’re still pushing the same low fat, keep eating carbs nonsense as ever. https://www.diabetesfoodhub.org/articles/what-is-the-diabetes-plate-method.html#:~:text=The%20Diabetes%20Plate%20Method%20is,you%20need%20is%20a%20plate! (This link came from the American Diabetes Association website). Granted, they recommend whole carbohydrates, but if people are having trouble with their sugars, the advice shouldn’t be “keep eating the things that spike blood sugar at every meal and certainly don’t add fat to blunt it.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bread doesn't need any sugar!
Sure, some bread recipes call for sugar, but plenty of breads do not need any sugar at all.
I bake baguettes that have no sugar at all.

Yes, but even if you put 1 flat tbsp (15 g) of sugar per 400 g of flour it does not make any significant difference.

Because

400 g of flour = 304 grams of simple carbohydrates.

15 g of sugar = 15 grams of simple carbohydrates.

So I am adding only 15 g to 304 g of carbs.

And if I eat one slice of bread per day I will only consume 2 grams of added sugar.

Pople who want to lose weight need to realise that calories and carbs are what really matters, not 2 grams of added sugar. Again, see American Diabetes Association.

Anonymous wrote:Bread doesn't need any sugar!
Sure, some bread recipes call for sugar, but plenty of breads do not need any sugar at all.
I bake baguettes that have no sugar at all.

Anonymous wrote:I woke up this morning thinking about this thread and the example of Subway in particular. I recall an episode of the Biggest Loser where the trainers treated everyone to a teriyaki. Chicken sub and extolled the virtues of this healthy lunch. That's the problem! So much added sugar and so much bad information. So many of us are trying so hard. We tried nutri systems and weight watchers and Jane Brody and fit it's and podcasts and it really does feel like the whole diet industry just takes your money and lies to you. He'll, I went to some shady place where they sold me amphetamines to curb my appetite. Now I have given up carbs and sugar and am weighing and measuring my food. I have been dieting for thirty years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s 2021. 5% is the new 100%. Right? Also, the cheeseburgers made people eat them.

In short, we can’t even have this discussion if the conversation diverts to rare disorders to the exclusion of actually talking about the overwhelming majority.

You really want to play this game? Metabolic syndromes include: cystic fibrosis, Tay Sachs, PCOS, maple syrup urine disease, phenylketonuria, tyrosinemia, sickle cell anemia.... you catch me, right? No, being overweight doesn’t cause most metabolic syndromes

Oh, you guys misspoke and when you said “metabolic disorders” you just meant type 2 diabetes? Maybe. But some researchers theorize that there’s something else at play, that the pre-diabetes/diabetes exist and stimulate the person to eat, much like how kids start eating before a growth spurt.

Seriously, read the two books I linked to. I know you think fat is funny and entirely the fault of the fat monster walking around in it, but you’re not right. (And since I mentioned it, PCOS is another one that causes a person to gain weight vs gaining weight causes a person to develop it.) You guys just want so badly for fat to be the person’s fault entirely because you know that if it’s true that there are multiple factors at play - and 2/3 of the US being overweight/obese suggests there are - then you’re kind of a smug douche. I don’t brag that I don’t need wine and beer to get through my days. Instead of being a smug douche who can control herself around the sauce, I recognize that I get no reward from alcohol. I can take or it or leave it and I pretty much leave it. You... go the other way.

All of this is incredibly narrow. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have historic rates of obesity. That wasn’t a thing as recently as the 1970s. I guess it’s all a wild conspiracy and the human body itself changed in the last 40 years. Amazing.

So, you really think people got lazier and more glutinous in just 40 years?
Doubt it, not long enough to change behavior patterns of big group of people. Food industry and pharma on the other hand did evolve to the levels one can only imagine.

Of course people are more glutinous now- because it is so easy to be! Fast/casual food on every corner, delivery of groceries, grubhub, amazon delivers, curbside pick up, out sourcing house cleaning and yard work, work from home. People move so much less and eat way more than they ever did.

Um...I think you guys mean “gluttonous” lol

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s 2021. 5% is the new 100%. Right? Also, the cheeseburgers made people eat them.

In short, we can’t even have this discussion if the conversation diverts to rare disorders to the exclusion of actually talking about the overwhelming majority.

You really want to play this game? Metabolic syndromes include: cystic fibrosis, Tay Sachs, PCOS, maple syrup urine disease, phenylketonuria, tyrosinemia, sickle cell anemia.... you catch me, right? No, being overweight doesn’t cause most metabolic syndromes

Oh, you guys misspoke and when you said “metabolic disorders” you just meant type 2 diabetes? Maybe. But some researchers theorize that there’s something else at play, that the pre-diabetes/diabetes exist and stimulate the person to eat, much like how kids start eating before a growth spurt.

Seriously, read the two books I linked to. I know you think fat is funny and entirely the fault of the fat monster walking around in it, but you’re not right. (And since I mentioned it, PCOS is another one that causes a person to gain weight vs gaining weight causes a person to develop it.) You guys just want so badly for fat to be the person’s fault entirely because you know that if it’s true that there are multiple factors at play - and 2/3 of the US being overweight/obese suggests there are - then you’re kind of a smug douche. I don’t brag that I don’t need wine and beer to get through my days. Instead of being a smug douche who can control herself around the sauce, I recognize that I get no reward from alcohol. I can take or it or leave it and I pretty much leave it. You... go the other way.

All of this is incredibly narrow. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have historic rates of obesity. That wasn’t a thing as recently as the 1970s. I guess it’s all a wild conspiracy and the human body itself changed in the last 40 years. Amazing.

So, you really think people got lazier and more glutinous in just 40 years?
Doubt it, not long enough to change behavior patterns of big group of people. Food industry and pharma on the other hand did evolve to the levels one can only imagine.

Of course people are more glutinous now- because it is so easy to be! Fast/casual food on every corner, delivery of groceries, grubhub, amazon delivers, curbside pick up, out sourcing house cleaning and yard work, work from home. People move so much less and eat way more than they ever did.

Um...I think you guys mean “gluttonous” lol

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s 2021. 5% is the new 100%. Right? Also, the cheeseburgers made people eat them.

In short, we can’t even have this discussion if the conversation diverts to rare disorders to the exclusion of actually talking about the overwhelming majority.

You really want to play this game? Metabolic syndromes include: cystic fibrosis, Tay Sachs, PCOS, maple syrup urine disease, phenylketonuria, tyrosinemia, sickle cell anemia.... you catch me, right? No, being overweight doesn’t cause most metabolic syndromes

Oh, you guys misspoke and when you said “metabolic disorders” you just meant type 2 diabetes? Maybe. But some researchers theorize that there’s something else at play, that the pre-diabetes/diabetes exist and stimulate the person to eat, much like how kids start eating before a growth spurt.

Seriously, read the two books I linked to. I know you think fat is funny and entirely the fault of the fat monster walking around in it, but you’re not right. (And since I mentioned it, PCOS is another one that causes a person to gain weight vs gaining weight causes a person to develop it.) You guys just want so badly for fat to be the person’s fault entirely because you know that if it’s true that there are multiple factors at play - and 2/3 of the US being overweight/obese suggests there are - then you’re kind of a smug douche. I don’t brag that I don’t need wine and beer to get through my days. Instead of being a smug douche who can control herself around the sauce, I recognize that I get no reward from alcohol. I can take or it or leave it and I pretty much leave it. You... go the other way.

All of this is incredibly narrow. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have historic rates of obesity. That wasn’t a thing as recently as the 1970s. I guess it’s all a wild conspiracy and the human body itself changed in the last 40 years. Amazing.

I’m not sure what you mean by “incredibly narrow.” I just enjoy pointing out where the fat shamers are wrongity wrong wrong.

I’ve posted a bunch on this thread and one of my other posts is that the low-fat/high-carb diet that was (and still is, sadly; some of you fat shamers have been scolding about fat people who have - gasp! - whipped cream) the doctor recommended diet for forty years is probably the main driver of the obesity epidemic. They effectively wrecked people’s diets by recommending people remove meats, sour cream, cheese and cream, fats for cooking/serving vegetables with, avocados, nuts, eggs and having them replace them with bread, generally. Back in the 80s, remember, the emphasis wasn’t on whole grain anything, it was on carbs and fruits and lean meats.

“But I’m a normal weight,” you might say. Bully for you! If you didn’t have the predisposition to blood sugar issues, I’m sure the low fat diet worked out great for you. Dr. Dean Ornish made an absolute killing, as did many other gurus. It just didn’t work for *most* people.

Sounds great as an academic exercise. We are talking about the overwhelming majority. It’s eating garbage and not moving enough. That’s it.

If you want to spend hours noodling about narrow population segments and rare conditions, go ahead. It’s meaningless in the grand scheme of the question presented.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s 2021. 5% is the new 100%. Right? Also, the cheeseburgers made people eat them.

In short, we can’t even have this discussion if the conversation diverts to rare disorders to the exclusion of actually talking about the overwhelming majority.

You really want to play this game? Metabolic syndromes include: cystic fibrosis, Tay Sachs, PCOS, maple syrup urine disease, phenylketonuria, tyrosinemia, sickle cell anemia.... you catch me, right? No, being overweight doesn’t cause most metabolic syndromes

Oh, you guys misspoke and when you said “metabolic disorders” you just meant type 2 diabetes? Maybe. But some researchers theorize that there’s something else at play, that the pre-diabetes/diabetes exist and stimulate the person to eat, much like how kids start eating before a growth spurt.

Seriously, read the two books I linked to. I know you think fat is funny and entirely the fault of the fat monster walking around in it, but you’re not right. (And since I mentioned it, PCOS is another one that causes a person to gain weight vs gaining weight causes a person to develop it.) You guys just want so badly for fat to be the person’s fault entirely because you know that if it’s true that there are multiple factors at play - and 2/3 of the US being overweight/obese suggests there are - then you’re kind of a smug douche. I don’t brag that I don’t need wine and beer to get through my days. Instead of being a smug douche who can control herself around the sauce, I recognize that I get no reward from alcohol. I can take or it or leave it and I pretty much leave it. You... go the other way.

All of this is incredibly narrow. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have historic rates of obesity. That wasn’t a thing as recently as the 1970s. I guess it’s all a wild conspiracy and the human body itself changed in the last 40 years. Amazing.

So, you really think people got lazier and more glutinous in just 40 years?
Doubt it, not long enough to change behavior patterns of big group of people. Food industry and pharma on the other hand did evolve to the levels one can only imagine.

Of course people are more glutinous now- because it is so easy to be! Fast/casual food on every corner, delivery of groceries, grubhub, amazon delivers, curbside pick up, out sourcing house cleaning and yard work, work from home. People move so much less and eat way more than they ever did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s 2021. 5% is the new 100%. Right? Also, the cheeseburgers made people eat them.

In short, we can’t even have this discussion if the conversation diverts to rare disorders to the exclusion of actually talking about the overwhelming majority.

You really want to play this game? Metabolic syndromes include: cystic fibrosis, Tay Sachs, PCOS, maple syrup urine disease, phenylketonuria, tyrosinemia, sickle cell anemia.... you catch me, right? No, being overweight doesn’t cause most metabolic syndromes

Oh, you guys misspoke and when you said “metabolic disorders” you just meant type 2 diabetes? Maybe. But some researchers theorize that there’s something else at play, that the pre-diabetes/diabetes exist and stimulate the person to eat, much like how kids start eating before a growth spurt.

Seriously, read the two books I linked to. I know you think fat is funny and entirely the fault of the fat monster walking around in it, but you’re not right. (And since I mentioned it, PCOS is another one that causes a person to gain weight vs gaining weight causes a person to develop it.) You guys just want so badly for fat to be the person’s fault entirely because you know that if it’s true that there are multiple factors at play - and 2/3 of the US being overweight/obese suggests there are - then you’re kind of a smug douche. I don’t brag that I don’t need wine and beer to get through my days. Instead of being a smug douche who can control herself around the sauce, I recognize that I get no reward from alcohol. I can take or it or leave it and I pretty much leave it. You... go the other way.

All of this is incredibly narrow. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have historic rates of obesity. That wasn’t a thing as recently as the 1970s. I guess it’s all a wild conspiracy and the human body itself changed in the last 40 years. Amazing.

So, you really think people got lazier and more glutinous in just 40 years?
Doubt it, not long enough to change behavior patterns of big group of people. Food industry and pharma on the other hand did evolve to the levels one can only imagine.

Of course people are more glutinous now- because it is so easy to be! Fast/casual food on every corner, delivery of groceries, grubhub, amazon delivers, curbside pick up, out sourcing house cleaning and yard work, work from home. People move so much less and eat way more than they ever did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s 2021. 5% is the new 100%. Right? Also, the cheeseburgers made people eat them.

In short, we can’t even have this discussion if the conversation diverts to rare disorders to the exclusion of actually talking about the overwhelming majority.

You really want to play this game? Metabolic syndromes include: cystic fibrosis, Tay Sachs, PCOS, maple syrup urine disease, phenylketonuria, tyrosinemia, sickle cell anemia.... you catch me, right? No, being overweight doesn’t cause most metabolic syndromes

Oh, you guys misspoke and when you said “metabolic disorders” you just meant type 2 diabetes? Maybe. But some researchers theorize that there’s something else at play, that the pre-diabetes/diabetes exist and stimulate the person to eat, much like how kids start eating before a growth spurt.

Seriously, read the two books I linked to. I know you think fat is funny and entirely the fault of the fat monster walking around in it, but you’re not right. (And since I mentioned it, PCOS is another one that causes a person to gain weight vs gaining weight causes a person to develop it.) You guys just want so badly for fat to be the person’s fault entirely because you know that if it’s true that there are multiple factors at play - and 2/3 of the US being overweight/obese suggests there are - then you’re kind of a smug douche. I don’t brag that I don’t need wine and beer to get through my days. Instead of being a smug douche who can control herself around the sauce, I recognize that I get no reward from alcohol. I can take or it or leave it and I pretty much leave it. You... go the other way.

All of this is incredibly narrow. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have historic rates of obesity. That wasn’t a thing as recently as the 1970s. I guess it’s all a wild conspiracy and the human body itself changed in the last 40 years. Amazing.

So, you really think people got lazier and more glutinous in just 40 years?
Doubt it, not long enough to change behavior patterns of big group of people. Food industry and pharma on the other hand did evolve to the levels one can only imagine.

Of course people are more glutinous now- because it is so easy to be! Fast/casual food on every corner, delivery of groceries, grubhub, amazon delivers, curbside pick up, out sourcing house cleaning and yard work, work from home. People move so much less and eat way more than they ever did.

Stop being mean. Mean equals not based on science or reason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s 2021. 5% is the new 100%. Right? Also, the cheeseburgers made people eat them.

In short, we can’t even have this discussion if the conversation diverts to rare disorders to the exclusion of actually talking about the overwhelming majority.

You really want to play this game? Metabolic syndromes include: cystic fibrosis, Tay Sachs, PCOS, maple syrup urine disease, phenylketonuria, tyrosinemia, sickle cell anemia.... you catch me, right? No, being overweight doesn’t cause most metabolic syndromes

Oh, you guys misspoke and when you said “metabolic disorders” you just meant type 2 diabetes? Maybe. But some researchers theorize that there’s something else at play, that the pre-diabetes/diabetes exist and stimulate the person to eat, much like how kids start eating before a growth spurt.

Seriously, read the two books I linked to. I know you think fat is funny and entirely the fault of the fat monster walking around in it, but you’re not right. (And since I mentioned it, PCOS is another one that causes a person to gain weight vs gaining weight causes a person to develop it.) You guys just want so badly for fat to be the person’s fault entirely because you know that if it’s true that there are multiple factors at play - and 2/3 of the US being overweight/obese suggests there are - then you’re kind of a smug douche. I don’t brag that I don’t need wine and beer to get through my days. Instead of being a smug douche who can control herself around the sauce, I recognize that I get no reward from alcohol. I can take or it or leave it and I pretty much leave it. You... go the other way.

All of this is incredibly narrow. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have historic rates of obesity. That wasn’t a thing as recently as the 1970s. I guess it’s all a wild conspiracy and the human body itself changed in the last 40 years. Amazing.

So, you really think people got lazier and more glutinous in just 40 years?
Doubt it, not long enough to change behavior patterns of big group of people. Food industry and pharma on the other hand did evolve to the levels one can only imagine.

Of course people are more glutinous now- because it is so easy to be! Fast/casual food on every corner, delivery of groceries, grubhub, amazon delivers, curbside pick up, out sourcing house cleaning and yard work, work from home. People move so much less and eat way more than they ever did.

Anonymous wrote:I woke up this morning thinking about this thread and the example of Subway in particular. I recall an episode of the Biggest Loser where the trainers treated everyone to a teriyaki. Chicken sub and extolled the virtues of this healthy lunch. That's the problem! So much added sugar and so much bad information. So many of us are trying so hard. We tried nutri systems and weight watchers and Jane Brody and fit it's and podcasts and it really does feel like the whole diet industry just takes your money and lies to you. He'll, I went to some shady place where they sold me amphetamines to curb my appetite. Now I have given up carbs and sugar and am weighing and measuring my food. I have been dieting for thirty years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s 2021. 5% is the new 100%. Right? Also, the cheeseburgers made people eat them.

In short, we can’t even have this discussion if the conversation diverts to rare disorders to the exclusion of actually talking about the overwhelming majority.

You really want to play this game? Metabolic syndromes include: cystic fibrosis, Tay Sachs, PCOS, maple syrup urine disease, phenylketonuria, tyrosinemia, sickle cell anemia.... you catch me, right? No, being overweight doesn’t cause most metabolic syndromes

Oh, you guys misspoke and when you said “metabolic disorders” you just meant type 2 diabetes? Maybe. But some researchers theorize that there’s something else at play, that the pre-diabetes/diabetes exist and stimulate the person to eat, much like how kids start eating before a growth spurt.

Seriously, read the two books I linked to. I know you think fat is funny and entirely the fault of the fat monster walking around in it, but you’re not right. (And since I mentioned it, PCOS is another one that causes a person to gain weight vs gaining weight causes a person to develop it.) You guys just want so badly for fat to be the person’s fault entirely because you know that if it’s true that there are multiple factors at play - and 2/3 of the US being overweight/obese suggests there are - then you’re kind of a smug douche. I don’t brag that I don’t need wine and beer to get through my days. Instead of being a smug douche who can control herself around the sauce, I recognize that I get no reward from alcohol. I can take or it or leave it and I pretty much leave it. You... go the other way.

All of this is incredibly narrow. If it wasn’t, we wouldn’t have historic rates of obesity. That wasn’t a thing as recently as the 1970s. I guess it’s all a wild conspiracy and the human body itself changed in the last 40 years. Amazing.

So, you really think people got lazier and more glutinous in just 40 years?
Doubt it, not long enough to change behavior patterns of big group of people. Food industry and pharma on the other hand did evolve to the levels one can only imagine.