Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the working moms who think they are superior to stay at home moms because they make actual money, do you feel superior to working moms who make less than you? I'm a working mom, and I'm curious about this. I have friends who work harder than I do who make less and it would never occur to me to put a value on anyone (or deem anyone superior) because they made more money. To me, it's about how hard someone works, which could happen either at work or in a home. Putting a dollar value on the work someone does it something that is so subjective as to be meaningless. I mean, I don't think the movie stars who make $5M per movie are working that much harder than anyone else. They just happen to be in an industry that pays exorbitant sums.

Nah. Working isn’t just about money. Which is what many SAHMs don’t understand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: working moms being inherently more interesting than shams simply because they work.

I think we all know this is a completely laughable claim just based on experience. There are some interesting jobs out there that people will want to hear about but many more boring ones that oriole will automatically start to tune out if you try to talk about them.

Signed, a software developer who knows from experience which one she’s in 😉 I enjoy my job but I realize that only fellow coders and engineers find what I do to be interesting.

I didn't post that, but what so many of you are missing is that it's not about the job itself. It's about being intellectually curious, professionally interesting and ambitious, and setting a good example for the generations of women that will come after us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re: working moms being inherently more interesting than shams simply because they work.

I think we all know this is a completely laughable claim just based on experience. There are some interesting jobs out there that people will want to hear about but many more boring ones that oriole will automatically start to tune out if you try to talk about them.

Signed, a software developer who knows from experience which one she’s in 😉 I enjoy my job but I realize that only fellow coders and engineers find what I do to be interesting.

I didn't post that, but what so many of you are missing is that it's not about the job itself. It's about being intellectually curious, professionally interesting and ambitious, and setting a good example for the generations of women that will come after us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the first time (other than short maternity leaves) that I’ve ever been able to stay home with my kids. I’m happier, DH is happier, I think my kids are the happiest I’ve ever seen them. Having to stay home and live simply these weeks have made me think we can give up some luxuries that my salary allows to have and still be happy. My friends are expressing similar sentiments and trying to find ways to make it work. Do you think we’ll see a resurgence of SAHM after this?

Not me. I was just telling my H how we are both so burned out from 24/7 time with kids. I hate doing worksheets, checking homework, cleaning. I have the luxury of WFH full time and we can pay the bills from one salary and I'd never ever give up my job, I love my luxuries. I grew up with nannies and tutors and love my parents very much; we have a much better relationship than most Americans have with their parents. My parents are still happily married after 40+ years. My job is intellectual, research-intensive, very technical and makes me very happy. I have an identity outside being a birther. What would I do all day with my time? With no commute, I have time to read, work out, do gardening, take care of myself. Because I'm not going to clean up toilets and fold laundry in exchange for giving up my almost 200K salary and excellent benefits.

Anonymous wrote:Re: working moms being inherently more interesting than shams simply because they work.

I think we all know this is a completely laughable claim just based on experience. There are some interesting jobs out there that people will want to hear about but many more boring ones that oriole will automatically start to tune out if you try to talk about them.

Signed, a software developer who knows from experience which one she’s in 😉 I enjoy my job but I realize that only fellow coders and engineers find what I do to be interesting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the working moms who think they are superior to stay at home moms because they make actual money, do you feel superior to working moms who make less than you? I'm a working mom, and I'm curious about this. I have friends who work harder than I do who make less and it would never occur to me to put a value on anyone (or deem anyone superior) because they made more money. To me, it's about how hard someone works, which could happen either at work or in a home. Putting a dollar value on the work someone does it something that is so subjective as to be meaningless. I mean, I don't think the movie stars who make $5M per movie are working that much harder than anyone else. They just happen to be in an industry that pays exorbitant sums.

Nah. Working isn’t just about money. Which is what many SAHMs don’t understand.

Anonymous wrote:Re: working moms being inherently more interesting than shams simply because they work.

I think we all know this is a completely laughable claim just based on experience. There are some interesting jobs out there that people will want to hear about but many more boring ones that oriole will automatically start to tune out if you try to talk about them.

Signed, a software developer who knows from experience which one she’s in 😉 I enjoy my job but I realize that only fellow coders and engineers find what I do to be interesting.

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Anonymous wrote:I have never met a SAHM who cares if anyone else works or not. The number of WOHMs here, however, that invent weird narratives about SAHMs who live pitiful existences and are miserably married is truly remarkable. No one accused you of anything, but the hostile attacks on SAHMs reeks of mom guilt.

+1. I see nastiness on both sides, but the vitriol from the working moms is on another level. Thinking sahms are worthless, don’t contribute to society, really? You have to have a deep sense of self hatred and raging jealousy to have such strong feelings about anyone else.

Nope, sorry, but you have blinders on. There is SO much vitriol from stay at home moms who accuse working moms of "abandoning their kids in daycares" and ask why they bothered to have kids at all. You sound like a fool for blaming one group more than the other.

I have been on both sides and it’s definitely nastier from WOH, 100%. UMC circle though where you don’t get a lot of SAHMs that don’t use housekeeper or preschool, so there’s not much of the “letting other people raise your kids” narrative since most use some form of childcare themselves and see the merits of it.

+ 1
I feel a rage in many WOH moms. It ranges from calling SAHMs worthless, submissive, anti-feminists, doormats to accusing them of "riding the gravy train". There are dire predictions that their DH's will leave them for a working woman, thereby leaving the SAHM and her kids destitute. Then on other forums they are crying about being devalued at work, being incompetent, having a boss from hell. They cry about hating their husband, sexual dysfunction, being attracted to others and husband cheating. They are unhappy about their messy homes or behaviour problems with their kids. THey are stressed out and bitchy when they have to function on the weekends in any social capacity. They are also very dismissive of other WOHMs - no sympathy for a new WOHM who is trying to pump or breastfeed at work for example. They are dismissive of other WOHMs who don't make enough money to outsource chores, and they are absolutely nasty to the other WOHMs who are cleaning their homes or looking after their children.

It is just RAGE, RAGE, RAGE...

I agree. I’ve always wondered why they get so triggered.

Like the PP who said something about meeting her kids at the door every day. It’s been quoted several times. If you are secure in your choice to work, why do you care that she thinks it’s a luxury worth paying for (in forgone she become) to greet her kids at the door?

Really, why do you care? I want to know. And don’t give me any crap about setting a bad example for her kids because that is dumb. Kids grow into adults who do what they want to do.

I was one of the people who responded to the mom at the door. There were others, so it's not like I was the only one with that opinion. But in any event, I don't care what other people think. So if she thinks it's a luxury to greet her kids at the door every day then good for her. I'm all for women being in a position to choose what they want to do, whatever that is. However, I also happen to think that having both parents be present in kids' lives in very important. So to me, what I think, not that it should matter to anyone else, is that both parents should be the ones making dinner, taking their kids to activities, giving them baths, greeting that at the door. And your "crap about setting a bad example for her kids" isn't actually crap. Sure, kids can make conscious choices to be different than their parents, but many, many people grow up imitating what they saw from their parents. You're a fool if you completely discount that.

Door greeter mom here. My husband gets home at 6 or 6:30 on a normal (pre pandemic) day. So he’s home plenty. As soon as he gets home, we sit down to dinner together as a family. Our kids are old enough not to need help with baths anymore but back when they hey we’re little, he did his share of bath time and middle of the night feedings.

So your assumptions are totally off. Not every SAHM mom is married to an absentee father.

So, he’s not taking the kids to after-school activities. He’s not making dinner. He’s not greeting them at the door. Your post doesn’t change anything.

He’s home with us for typically 3 hours before they go to bed. For one thing, he often does pick up at some of their activities. I drop them off and stay for a bit to watch because they like that and actively request it. Them I leave about midway to 2/3 through to get dinner started so we can eat when they all walk in the door. The two of us clean up together while the kids take baths or showers. Then it’s time to do homework and study, which we both help with in a divide and conquer way. Then we either play a game together as a family or pull out books to read before bed. Then bedtime routines. We both still give our kids 5-10 minute cuddles before bed.

So he’s very involved in our home life. Not to mention, we always do something fun together on the weekends. That’s the biggest perk of having a SAHP. Weekends are free from errands and chores so we can just spend time together. We live in Denver so we have a lot of great outdoor adventures around us. We ski every Saturday in the winter, go hiking in the non winter months, day trips, weekend trips, museums, bike rides, picnics, etc.

He’s very involved in our family life.

Nice u-turn you took to defend yourself. Your original post doesn't paint this picture.

Because it didn’t come up initially. I said I SAH because when I was working, I wasn’t the kind of parent I wanted to be. I felt preoccupied, stressed, and irritable all the time. When I came home from work, the last thing I wanted to do was take care of a baby. It didn’t have much to do with my husband other than that he makes a good income and was supportive of whatever I wanted to do.

When our kids were little, my husband did half of the middle of the night wake ups. Our kids see him cooking and cleaning. They see me taking out the trash and mowing the lawn. They see both of us at their activities and schools and helping them with their homework and projects. I know that we’re modeling a happy, strong marriage and partnership to them. I have no concerns on that front.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never met a SAHM who cares if anyone else works or not. The number of WOHMs here, however, that invent weird narratives about SAHMs who live pitiful existences and are miserably married is truly remarkable. No one accused you of anything, but the hostile attacks on SAHMs reeks of mom guilt.

+1. I see nastiness on both sides, but the vitriol from the working moms is on another level. Thinking sahms are worthless, don’t contribute to society, really? You have to have a deep sense of self hatred and raging jealousy to have such strong feelings about anyone else.

Nope, sorry, but you have blinders on. There is SO much vitriol from stay at home moms who accuse working moms of "abandoning their kids in daycares" and ask why they bothered to have kids at all. You sound like a fool for blaming one group more than the other.

I have been on both sides and it’s definitely nastier from WOH, 100%. UMC circle though where you don’t get a lot of SAHMs that don’t use housekeeper or preschool, so there’s not much of the “letting other people raise your kids” narrative since most use some form of childcare themselves and see the merits of it.

+ 1
I feel a rage in many WOH moms. It ranges from calling SAHMs worthless, submissive, anti-feminists, doormats to accusing them of "riding the gravy train". There are dire predictions that their DH's will leave them for a working woman, thereby leaving the SAHM and her kids destitute. Then on other forums they are crying about being devalued at work, being incompetent, having a boss from hell. They cry about hating their husband, sexual dysfunction, being attracted to others and husband cheating. They are unhappy about their messy homes or behaviour problems with their kids. THey are stressed out and bitchy when they have to function on the weekends in any social capacity. They are also very dismissive of other WOHMs - no sympathy for a new WOHM who is trying to pump or breastfeed at work for example. They are dismissive of other WOHMs who don't make enough money to outsource chores, and they are absolutely nasty to the other WOHMs who are cleaning their homes or looking after their children.

It is just RAGE, RAGE, RAGE...

I agree. I’ve always wondered why they get so triggered.

Like the PP who said something about meeting her kids at the door every day. It’s been quoted several times. If you are secure in your choice to work, why do you care that she thinks it’s a luxury worth paying for (in forgone she become) to greet her kids at the door?

Really, why do you care? I want to know. And don’t give me any crap about setting a bad example for her kids because that is dumb. Kids grow into adults who do what they want to do.

I wondered about this too. That came up several times and it seems like one of the more innocuous things a SAHM can say.

She literally said, I’ve been both but SAH is better for MY kids because xyz reasons. She wants to greet her kids at the door and take them to their activities. Who cares? What’s wrong with that? No grand pronouncements on how daycare is evil or working moms aren’t raising their kids.

Wow, you guys are dense. The issue isn't that she said working moms are bad. The issue, as multiple people noted, is that having the MOM do all the stuff is what some people want to model for their children. If that mom does, fine. But that doesn't mean that others aren't allowed to have other opinions. You're really twisting all the comments together and ignoring the fact that multiple people have commented in a single thread, so it's not like someone making a nasty comment somewhere down the line is saying the same thing as someone who commented upstream.

Just curious, do you give overweight parents a hard time about the unhealthy diet and exercise habits they’re modeling for their kids? Or the moms who overdo it on nightly wine consumption? If the answer is no, then ask yourself why you feel it’s any of your business to weigh in on other women’s employment choices.

+1 what a weird argument. My mom was SAHM my whole life and went back to work and eventually became a senior executive after I went to college. I never thought she was lazy or incapable of working. She took care of me and taught me to read and write; she was there for me after school and read books to me even as a teenager. She is very smart and I have a lot of respect for her. My DH and I decided early on that we did not want daycare for our children. It doesn’t make anyone else’s choices invalid. I’m not sure why all the hate in SAHMs here.

Well you don’t sound very bright, so there’s that.

Aw, you sound sad. I’m sure Bright Horizons loves your baby, don’t take it personally.

And we are sure your husband thinks you’re smart and ambitious. I’m sure you seem just as smart as the educated women he works with daily who spend time daily with working adults. You appear just as smart and have plenty to talk about. We promise!

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never met a SAHM who cares if anyone else works or not. The number of WOHMs here, however, that invent weird narratives about SAHMs who live pitiful existences and are miserably married is truly remarkable. No one accused you of anything, but the hostile attacks on SAHMs reeks of mom guilt.

+1. I see nastiness on both sides, but the vitriol from the working moms is on another level. Thinking sahms are worthless, don’t contribute to society, really? You have to have a deep sense of self hatred and raging jealousy to have such strong feelings about anyone else.

Nope, sorry, but you have blinders on. There is SO much vitriol from stay at home moms who accuse working moms of "abandoning their kids in daycares" and ask why they bothered to have kids at all. You sound like a fool for blaming one group more than the other.

I have been on both sides and it’s definitely nastier from WOH, 100%. UMC circle though where you don’t get a lot of SAHMs that don’t use housekeeper or preschool, so there’s not much of the “letting other people raise your kids” narrative since most use some form of childcare themselves and see the merits of it.

+ 1
I feel a rage in many WOH moms. It ranges from calling SAHMs worthless, submissive, anti-feminists, doormats to accusing them of "riding the gravy train". There are dire predictions that their DH's will leave them for a working woman, thereby leaving the SAHM and her kids destitute. Then on other forums they are crying about being devalued at work, being incompetent, having a boss from hell. They cry about hating their husband, sexual dysfunction, being attracted to others and husband cheating. They are unhappy about their messy homes or behaviour problems with their kids. THey are stressed out and bitchy when they have to function on the weekends in any social capacity. They are also very dismissive of other WOHMs - no sympathy for a new WOHM who is trying to pump or breastfeed at work for example. They are dismissive of other WOHMs who don't make enough money to outsource chores, and they are absolutely nasty to the other WOHMs who are cleaning their homes or looking after their children.

It is just RAGE, RAGE, RAGE...

I agree. I’ve always wondered why they get so triggered.

Like the PP who said something about meeting her kids at the door every day. It’s been quoted several times. If you are secure in your choice to work, why do you care that she thinks it’s a luxury worth paying for (in forgone she become) to greet her kids at the door?

Really, why do you care? I want to know. And don’t give me any crap about setting a bad example for her kids because that is dumb. Kids grow into adults who do what they want to do.

I wondered about this too. That came up several times and it seems like one of the more innocuous things a SAHM can say.

She literally said, I’ve been both but SAH is better for MY kids because xyz reasons. She wants to greet her kids at the door and take them to their activities. Who cares? What’s wrong with that? No grand pronouncements on how daycare is evil or working moms aren’t raising their kids.

Wow, you guys are dense. The issue isn't that she said working moms are bad. The issue, as multiple people noted, is that having the MOM do all the stuff is what some people want to model for their children. If that mom does, fine. But that doesn't mean that others aren't allowed to have other opinions. You're really twisting all the comments together and ignoring the fact that multiple people have commented in a single thread, so it's not like someone making a nasty comment somewhere down the line is saying the same thing as someone who commented upstream.

Just curious, do you give overweight parents a hard time about the unhealthy diet and exercise habits they’re modeling for their kids? Or the moms who overdo it on nightly wine consumption? If the answer is no, then ask yourself why you feel it’s any of your business to weigh in on other women’s employment choices.

+1 what a weird argument. My mom was SAHM my whole life and went back to work and eventually became a senior executive after I went to college. I never thought she was lazy or incapable of working. She took care of me and taught me to read and write; she was there for me after school and read books to me even as a teenager. She is very smart and I have a lot of respect for her. My DH and I decided early on that we did not want daycare for our children. It doesn’t make anyone else’s choices invalid. I’m not sure why all the hate in SAHMs here.

Well you don’t sound very bright, so there’s that.

Aw, you sound sad. I’m sure Bright Horizons loves your baby, don’t take it personally.

Ha! I’m sure they’ll send her a video of her baby’s first words!

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never met a SAHM who cares if anyone else works or not. The number of WOHMs here, however, that invent weird narratives about SAHMs who live pitiful existences and are miserably married is truly remarkable. No one accused you of anything, but the hostile attacks on SAHMs reeks of mom guilt.

+1. I see nastiness on both sides, but the vitriol from the working moms is on another level. Thinking sahms are worthless, don’t contribute to society, really? You have to have a deep sense of self hatred and raging jealousy to have such strong feelings about anyone else.

Nope, sorry, but you have blinders on. There is SO much vitriol from stay at home moms who accuse working moms of "abandoning their kids in daycares" and ask why they bothered to have kids at all. You sound like a fool for blaming one group more than the other.

I have been on both sides and it’s definitely nastier from WOH, 100%. UMC circle though where you don’t get a lot of SAHMs that don’t use housekeeper or preschool, so there’s not much of the “letting other people raise your kids” narrative since most use some form of childcare themselves and see the merits of it.

+ 1
I feel a rage in many WOH moms. It ranges from calling SAHMs worthless, submissive, anti-feminists, doormats to accusing them of "riding the gravy train". There are dire predictions that their DH's will leave them for a working woman, thereby leaving the SAHM and her kids destitute. Then on other forums they are crying about being devalued at work, being incompetent, having a boss from hell. They cry about hating their husband, sexual dysfunction, being attracted to others and husband cheating. They are unhappy about their messy homes or behaviour problems with their kids. THey are stressed out and bitchy when they have to function on the weekends in any social capacity. They are also very dismissive of other WOHMs - no sympathy for a new WOHM who is trying to pump or breastfeed at work for example. They are dismissive of other WOHMs who don't make enough money to outsource chores, and they are absolutely nasty to the other WOHMs who are cleaning their homes or looking after their children.

It is just RAGE, RAGE, RAGE...

I agree. I’ve always wondered why they get so triggered.

Like the PP who said something about meeting her kids at the door every day. It’s been quoted several times. If you are secure in your choice to work, why do you care that she thinks it’s a luxury worth paying for (in forgone she become) to greet her kids at the door?

Really, why do you care? I want to know. And don’t give me any crap about setting a bad example for her kids because that is dumb. Kids grow into adults who do what they want to do.

I was one of the people who responded to the mom at the door. There were others, so it's not like I was the only one with that opinion. But in any event, I don't care what other people think. So if she thinks it's a luxury to greet her kids at the door every day then good for her. I'm all for women being in a position to choose what they want to do, whatever that is. However, I also happen to think that having both parents be present in kids' lives in very important. So to me, what I think, not that it should matter to anyone else, is that both parents should be the ones making dinner, taking their kids to activities, giving them baths, greeting that at the door. And your "crap about setting a bad example for her kids" isn't actually crap. Sure, kids can make conscious choices to be different than their parents, but many, many people grow up imitating what they saw from their parents. You're a fool if you completely discount that.

Door greeter mom here. My husband gets home at 6 or 6:30 on a normal (pre pandemic) day. So he’s home plenty. As soon as he gets home, we sit down to dinner together as a family. Our kids are old enough not to need help with baths anymore but back when they hey we’re little, he did his share of bath time and middle of the night feedings.

So your assumptions are totally off. Not every SAHM mom is married to an absentee father.

So, he’s not taking the kids to after-school activities. He’s not making dinner. He’s not greeting them at the door. Your post doesn’t change anything.

He’s home with us for typically 3 hours before they go to bed. For one thing, he often does pick up at some of their activities. I drop them off and stay for a bit to watch because they like that and actively request it. Them I leave about midway to 2/3 through to get dinner started so we can eat when they all walk in the door. The two of us clean up together while the kids take baths or showers. Then it’s time to do homework and study, which we both help with in a divide and conquer way. Then we either play a game together as a family or pull out books to read before bed. Then bedtime routines. We both still give our kids 5-10 minute cuddles before bed.

So he’s very involved in our home life. Not to mention, we always do something fun together on the weekends. That’s the biggest perk of having a SAHP. Weekends are free from errands and chores so we can just spend time together. We live in Denver so we have a lot of great outdoor adventures around us. We ski every Saturday in the winter, go hiking in the non winter months, day trips, weekend trips, museums, bike rides, picnics, etc.

He’s very involved in our family life.

Nice u-turn you took to defend yourself. Your original post doesn't paint this picture.

Anonymous wrote:This is the first time (other than short maternity leaves) that I’ve ever been able to stay home with my kids. I’m happier, DH is happier, I think my kids are the happiest I’ve ever seen them. Having to stay home and live simply these weeks have made me think we can give up some luxuries that my salary allows to have and still be happy. My friends are expressing similar sentiments and trying to find ways to make it work. Do you think we’ll see a resurgence of SAHM after this?