Anonymous
11/11/2020 15:09
Subject: US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Playing with your grade makes sense. I think it would keep more kids involved in competitive soccer. It is a fact that some athletic kids move on to other sports from lost opportunity. My daughter is young in the ulittles, her best friend is dying to play with her and can't because they are born different years. She is doing rec instead and another sport more competitive. I'm not saying this girl is the next Alex Morgan, or even that she won't end up in travel down the road, but thousands and thousands of these small examples add up for impact on participation. I personally quit soccer way back and moved on to other sports because I couldn't play travel with my grade. I missed the cutoff by a few days. I was able to play other sports with my friends and got more into those. I was nothing special, but again, all these things add up.
The biggest problem to that, however, is that states have different cutoffs. September 1 is by far the most common with some more earlier/later in August or September. Very few, most notably pockets around NY, use calendar year. There's no perfect answer but I say pick something that works for the most people and maybe give a 30-day buffer for an outlier based on that jurisdictions cutoff. Are we really gonna be up in arms if a girl born August 15 plays because that state has August 1st? This really only screws the calendar year school districts, which are a small minority. I have no good solution for that.
For me, the "play with schoolmates" issue is very short-sighted. Yes, there "could" be friends on the same team, but my DD plays on a team with 18 girls and none attend to her school, yes even those in same grade. They come from all over. Think if you live in a dense county or DC even, chances are you live in same MS or HS district will be very rare.
This may be true for megaclubs and older ages, but this is about participation as a whole. In a lot of the country and with smaller clubs, a lot of soccer IS where many of the kids go to school together, or a cluster of schools where people know each other in that town. Kids coming from all over is not the norm for the masses and most of the country. If a change is made, it is to get more little kids into soccer and more to stick with it as they hit the teenage years. The bigger picture is very different than your DDs type of team, albeit many on here also have kids on that type of team.
So, crux is, there is no 'on field' benefit, just to each their own. Blow up clubs - again - for one reason that doesn't benefit a majority. I could easily say then play HS ball and let mega clubs, with girls and boys with aspirations of college and beyond, compete based on the international standard. Likely, US Soccer could make any rules for <U13 and then start playing by "the rules" come U13. Either way, you're blowing up mega teams and competitive teams for those who would "like" to have friends on the team. About as selfish as a reason ever.
I'd actually argue that to harp on about a tiny percentage of elite, older teams at the expense of encouraging greater participation for hundreds of thousands or millions of kids across the country is about as selfish as it gets.
Anonymous
11/11/2020 14:53
Subject: US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Playing with your grade makes sense. I think it would keep more kids involved in competitive soccer. It is a fact that some athletic kids move on to other sports from lost opportunity. My daughter is young in the ulittles, her best friend is dying to play with her and can't because they are born different years. She is doing rec instead and another sport more competitive. I'm not saying this girl is the next Alex Morgan, or even that she won't end up in travel down the road, but thousands and thousands of these small examples add up for impact on participation. I personally quit soccer way back and moved on to other sports because I couldn't play travel with my grade. I missed the cutoff by a few days. I was able to play other sports with my friends and got more into those. I was nothing special, but again, all these things add up.
The biggest problem to that, however, is that states have different cutoffs. September 1 is by far the most common with some more earlier/later in August or September. Very few, most notably pockets around NY, use calendar year. There's no perfect answer but I say pick something that works for the most people and maybe give a 30-day buffer for an outlier based on that jurisdictions cutoff. Are we really gonna be up in arms if a girl born August 15 plays because that state has August 1st? This really only screws the calendar year school districts, which are a small minority. I have no good solution for that.
For me, the "play with schoolmates" issue is very short-sighted. Yes, there "could" be friends on the same team, but my DD plays on a team with 18 girls and none attend to her school, yes even those in same grade. They come from all over. Think if you live in a dense county or DC even, chances are you live in same MS or HS district will be very rare.
This may be true for megaclubs and older ages, but this is about participation as a whole. In a lot of the country and with smaller clubs, a lot of soccer IS where many of the kids go to school together, or a cluster of schools where people know each other in that town. Kids coming from all over is not the norm for the masses and most of the country. If a change is made, it is to get more little kids into soccer and more to stick with it as they hit the teenage years. The bigger picture is very different than your DDs type of team, albeit many on here also have kids on that type of team.
So, crux is, there is no 'on field' benefit, just to each their own. Blow up clubs - again - for one reason that doesn't benefit a majority. I could easily say then play HS ball and let mega clubs, with girls and boys with aspirations of college and beyond, compete based on the international standard. Likely, US Soccer could make any rules for <U13 and then start playing by "the rules" come U13. Either way, you're blowing up mega teams and competitive teams for those who would "like" to have friends on the team. About as selfish as a reason ever.
Anonymous
11/11/2020 14:46
Subject: US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Playing with your grade makes sense. I think it would keep more kids involved in competitive soccer. It is a fact that some athletic kids move on to other sports from lost opportunity. My daughter is young in the ulittles, her best friend is dying to play with her and can't because they are born different years. She is doing rec instead and another sport more competitive. I'm not saying this girl is the next Alex Morgan, or even that she won't end up in travel down the road, but thousands and thousands of these small examples add up for impact on participation. I personally quit soccer way back and moved on to other sports because I couldn't play travel with my grade. I missed the cutoff by a few days. I was able to play other sports with my friends and got more into those. I was nothing special, but again, all these things add up.
The biggest problem to that, however, is that states have different cutoffs. September 1 is by far the most common with some more earlier/later in August or September. Very few, most notably pockets around NY, use calendar year. There's no perfect answer but I say pick something that works for the most people and maybe give a 30-day buffer for an outlier based on that jurisdictions cutoff. Are we really gonna be up in arms if a girl born August 15 plays because that state has August 1st? This really only screws the calendar year school districts, which are a small minority. I have no good solution for that.
For me, the "play with schoolmates" issue is very short-sighted. Yes, there "could" be friends on the same team, but my DD plays on a team with 18 girls and none attend to her school, yes even those in same grade. They come from all over. Think if you live in a dense county or DC even, chances are you live in same MS or HS district will be very rare.
This may be true for megaclubs and older ages, but this is about participation as a whole. In a lot of the country and with smaller clubs, a lot of soccer IS where many of the kids go to school together, or a cluster of schools where people know each other in that town. Kids coming from all over is not the norm for the masses and most of the country. If a change is made, it is to get more little kids into soccer and more to stick with it as they hit the teenage years. The bigger picture is very different than your DDs type of team, albeit many on here also have kids on that type of team.
Anonymous
11/11/2020 14:17
Subject: Re:US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
What’s the current USSF model?
Anonymous
11/11/2020 14:15
Subject: US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Anonymous wrote:Playing with your grade makes sense. I think it would keep more kids involved in competitive soccer. It is a fact that some athletic kids move on to other sports from lost opportunity. My daughter is young in the ulittles, her best friend is dying to play with her and can't because they are born different years. She is doing rec instead and another sport more competitive. I'm not saying this girl is the next Alex Morgan, or even that she won't end up in travel down the road, but thousands and thousands of these small examples add up for impact on participation. I personally quit soccer way back and moved on to other sports because I couldn't play travel with my grade. I missed the cutoff by a few days. I was able to play other sports with my friends and got more into those. I was nothing special, but again, all these things add up.
The biggest problem to that, however, is that states have different cutoffs. September 1 is by far the most common with some more earlier/later in August or September. Very few, most notably pockets around NY, use calendar year. There's no perfect answer but I say pick something that works for the most people and maybe give a 30-day buffer for an outlier based on that jurisdictions cutoff. Are we really gonna be up in arms if a girl born August 15 plays because that state has August 1st? This really only screws the calendar year school districts, which are a small minority. I have no good solution for that.
For me, the "play with schoolmates" issue is very short-sighted. Yes, there "could" be friends on the same team, but my DD plays on a team with 18 girls and none attend to her school, yes even those in same grade. They come from all over. Think if you live in a dense county or DC even, chances are you live in same MS or HS district will be very rare. Playing with your friends is a simple answer to change, but really is the only one to revert back. Changing back now would blow-up teams playing together for a few years now, especially any girls on good teams in competitive leagues. Any parent advocating for this is in tiny U-ages where it won't matter nearly as much. There always has to be a cutoff.
What about kids in Georgia who go back to school beginning of August while rest of us go back (some places) week before Labor Day or week after. So, your DD or DS's friend born on 6 Sep would play on U12, for example, and their school friend born Aug 15 will play U13. Same grade, different U leagues. When they get to HS, they get to play all the soccer they want together for the HS team, but what happens if one gets varsity and the other JV? My DD is about 6'2" and is youngest on the team with December birth. Physicality isn't an argument as she's twice the size of girls born in Feb.
Friends on team is worst rationale to blow up established teams and extremely individualistic. Sign of the times for sure.
Anonymous
11/11/2020 13:55
Subject: US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Playing with your grade makes sense. I think it would keep more kids involved in competitive soccer. It is a fact that some athletic kids move on to other sports from lost opportunity. My daughter is young in the ulittles, her best friend is dying to play with her and can't because they are born different years. She is doing rec instead and another sport more competitive. I'm not saying this girl is the next Alex Morgan, or even that she won't end up in travel down the road, but thousands and thousands of these small examples add up for impact on participation. I personally quit soccer way back and moved on to other sports because I couldn't play travel with my grade. I missed the cutoff by a few days. I was able to play other sports with my friends and got more into those. I was nothing special, but again, all these things add up.
The biggest problem to that, however, is that states have different cutoffs. September 1 is by far the most common with some more earlier/later in August or September. Very few, most notably pockets around NY, use calendar year. There's no perfect answer but I say pick something that works for the most people and maybe give a 30-day buffer for an outlier based on that jurisdictions cutoff. Are we really gonna be up in arms if a girl born August 15 plays because that state has August 1st? This really only screws the calendar year school districts, which are a small minority. I have no good solution for that.
The biggest problem to that, however, is that states have different cutoffs. September 1 is by far the most common with some more earlier/later in August or September. Very few, most notably pockets around NY, use calendar year. There's no perfect answer but I say pick something that works for the most people and maybe give a 30-day buffer for an outlier based on that jurisdictions cutoff. Are we really gonna be up in arms if a girl born August 15 plays because that state has August 1st? This really only screws the calendar year school districts, which are a small minority. I have no good solution for that.
Anonymous
11/11/2020 13:24
Subject: US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:US Soccer is looking into it. The development platform for girls is now college. NCAA soccer system is widely seen as the sole US advantage on the women’s side. Men’s side is different due to the professional money in MLS and international club system. The best men get signed professionally early and don’t go to college. It is all part of the dismantling of DA. It will happen to align with the women’s college development platform.
US Soccer doesn't care about college soccer. It just doesn't matter if it is slightly easier for college coaches or not.
People have this belief that college coaches just go to showcases pull up to a random game and just watch and come up with a list of players to recruit from the game.
There is no real reason to cater any age cutoff for the benefit of colleges because the impact is pretty minimal.
What US Soccer does care about is their National Team and it is far easier for them to scout players based on international cutoff standards where their kids will be playing.
US soccer changed to Birth Year for their benefit and the reasons for that initial change have not changed at all for US Soccer.
US soccer does care about dwindling numbers playing youth soccer in America, and they want to encourage kids to stay on the teams and keep playing.
One of the suggestions is that kids will be more apt to play with their schoolmates than their teammates. YMMV, but it's being looked at as one way of keeping kids playing past the magic 13-year-old point where 75% of kids quit the game. They may be more likely to play with classmates they see on and off the field, rather than teammates they just see at practices and games.
USA is ultra dominate in women's soccer, so the drop out rate is either boys who flood to the four major sports in H.S. or the fact after U13 the competition is way stronger. Our club used to have 2-3 levels per U-group, but once they hit U13, it's one in the ECNL regional or CCL and then the best go to the ECNL or DA. Doubtful US Soccer is concerned with women's play, but have to wonder why men's soccer is basement quality compared to rest of world.
Anonymous
11/11/2020 12:14
Subject: US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:US Soccer is looking into it. The development platform for girls is now college. NCAA soccer system is widely seen as the sole US advantage on the women’s side. Men’s side is different due to the professional money in MLS and international club system. The best men get signed professionally early and don’t go to college. It is all part of the dismantling of DA. It will happen to align with the women’s college development platform.
US Soccer doesn't care about college soccer. It just doesn't matter if it is slightly easier for college coaches or not.
People have this belief that college coaches just go to showcases pull up to a random game and just watch and come up with a list of players to recruit from the game.
There is no real reason to cater any age cutoff for the benefit of colleges because the impact is pretty minimal.
What US Soccer does care about is their National Team and it is far easier for them to scout players based on international cutoff standards where their kids will be playing.
US soccer changed to Birth Year for their benefit and the reasons for that initial change have not changed at all for US Soccer.
US soccer does care about dwindling numbers playing youth soccer in America, and they want to encourage kids to stay on the teams and keep playing.
One of the suggestions is that kids will be more apt to play with their schoolmates than their teammates. YMMV, but it's being looked at as one way of keeping kids playing past the magic 13-year-old point where 75% of kids quit the game. They may be more likely to play with classmates they see on and off the field, rather than teammates they just see at practices and games.
A lot of really good players I know quit at U13/14 because of years of the same old bureaucracy. Kids change and develop drastically different from age 8 to age 13 and beyond, yet almost every soccer club in the area values keeping the teams the same year in year out. The kids that have moved beyond and drastically changed are tired of getting the shaft and say f*ck you to soccer. US soccer loses out on so much potential for not upsetting the apple cart and not LOOKING at tryouts. The pre-sort of kids based on some label they got at age 9 sticks. I see so many great players that are just beginning to come into their potential get frustrated and leave the sport completely.
Anonymous
11/11/2020 11:24
Subject: Re:US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Agree and well said.
Anonymous
11/11/2020 10:58
Subject: US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:US Soccer is looking into it. The development platform for girls is now college. NCAA soccer system is widely seen as the sole US advantage on the women’s side. Men’s side is different due to the professional money in MLS and international club system. The best men get signed professionally early and don’t go to college. It is all part of the dismantling of DA. It will happen to align with the women’s college development platform.
US Soccer doesn't care about college soccer. It just doesn't matter if it is slightly easier for college coaches or not.
People have this belief that college coaches just go to showcases pull up to a random game and just watch and come up with a list of players to recruit from the game.
There is no real reason to cater any age cutoff for the benefit of colleges because the impact is pretty minimal.
What US Soccer does care about is their National Team and it is far easier for them to scout players based on international cutoff standards where their kids will be playing.
US soccer changed to Birth Year for their benefit and the reasons for that initial change have not changed at all for US Soccer.
US soccer does care about dwindling numbers playing youth soccer in America, and they want to encourage kids to stay on the teams and keep playing.
One of the suggestions is that kids will be more apt to play with their schoolmates than their teammates. YMMV, but it's being looked at as one way of keeping kids playing past the magic 13-year-old point where 75% of kids quit the game. They may be more likely to play with classmates they see on and off the field, rather than teammates they just see at practices and games.
Anonymous
11/10/2020 22:47
Subject: Re:US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Why so many posts get deleted
Anonymous
10/18/2020 13:01
Subject: US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:US Soccer is looking into it. The development platform for girls is now college. NCAA soccer system is widely seen as the sole US advantage on the women’s side. Men’s side is different due to the professional money in MLS and international club system. The best men get signed professionally early and don’t go to college. It is all part of the dismantling of DA. It will happen to align with the women’s college development platform.
I agree
+1
No. The system is fine the way it is. There is no argument for changing it. None.
Anonymous
10/18/2020 11:35
Subject: US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:US Soccer is looking into it. The development platform for girls is now college. NCAA soccer system is widely seen as the sole US advantage on the women’s side. Men’s side is different due to the professional money in MLS and international club system. The best men get signed professionally early and don’t go to college. It is all part of the dismantling of DA. It will happen to align with the women’s college development platform.
I agree
+1
Anonymous
10/18/2020 11:10
Subject: Re:US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Girls lacrosse is school grade and it’s terribly unfair due to excessive redshirting around here.
US lacrosse changed to birth year and NGLL (this area) didn’t follow.
Agree with this, too many girls that are nearly a full year older than their peers.
Whats the difference between a January 2004 birthday and a December 2004 birthday? A whole year. This is the problem. It always favor the older kids regardless the cutoff. Its a no win for the younger kids
With school grade it could be Jan 2004 playing against December 2006.
Which is likely to produce more variation in age? Question answer itself. Grade-based. This is beyond stupid.
Birth year. 1/3 of your kid’s classmates are playing up - no matter what. We are programmed to compare our kids based on other 2005s or 2004s. That’s all wrong. Compare them vs classmates. Look at the grad years. That’s what college coaches will do.
Beyond stupid
Anonymous
10/18/2020 10:21
Subject: US soccer rumors of changing back age groups?
Anonymous wrote:Even birth year is too granular.
Football does it by weight