Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, this thread is increasingly seeming destined to become a DCUM classic

We are debating whether UC WASPs go to Portugal and the class distinctions signaled by Pottery Barn vs. Stickley (as if this were a question).

What’s wrong with stickler?

It’s hand made, all wood stuff (no veneer or particle board)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The working class man, like the rich man, is sentimental and driven by comfort. He usually eats the same meals and has least adventurous palate of all the classes. The working class house is full of items of personal significance, such as family photos, and a quilt made by grandma. Decor also includes wallpaper borders, Americana themes, and signs with touching phrases like "bless this mess". Working class vacations usually involve staying with relatives or camping, and aspirational vacations are Disney or a cruise. Hawaii is working class Valhalla. Entertainment includes television, movies, sports bars, bowling, being a spectator at sporting events such as baseball or football, hosting potlucks, and hosting MLM parties. Education is regarded as career advancement; degree programs like nursing are considered superior to degrees like Economics, which are perceived as lacking job opportunities and practical application.

Paul Fussell?

He’s dead, but this does read like him.

So wait. Profiling PP was quoting Fussell all along?

Profile writer here. I wasn't quoting Fussell but this certainly tracks with his book on the topic. As someone who is obviously very interested in class, I have read his book. Twice.

I admire your honesty about your interests! Just, when you get called out on things like dog shows and Portugal (does Fussell mention Portugal?), don’t keep insisting on them, is all.

I didn't weigh in on dog shows. But I've got to put my foot down about Portugal as not being de rigueur among the rich.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

Daughters of billionaires seem to do this. I think there is a Gates daughter who does and a Dell daughter. Bloomberg's daughter as well.

As does/did Springsteen’s daughter.These are all new money, though, fwiw.

I know numerous UMC and even MC daughters in the DMV area who do this—DC’s classmates and friends’ kids.

The point is, show jumping/dressage is not a marker of old money, or “class” if you want, contrary to what’s been said here.

The

Anyone who can afford it would do show jumping because it is the most fun thing to do with oodles of money. Those particular girls are famous because their parents are famous - there are PLENTY of older money daughters doing it as well. Also remember there is "competing in show jumping" and then there is being a national competitor and then there is the Springsteen/Gates level shit. Those guys invented a whole circuit of completely ridiculous events with insane backdrops - under the Eiffel Tower, on the beach in Miami, by the water in Monaco - I think just because Frank McCourt's new wife is into horses. You gotta have stupid money to do that and no desire to hold onto it. There are also a lot of international kleptocrats who get into it especially in Florida. Anyway you need a LOT more money to do that then you do to just keep a few nice show hunters in Middleburg, which is also pretty f-ing classy imo. A good way to judge is if the person jumps over 1.20m or does actual fox hunting (because those people are mostly insane/delightful). Both are legit. "Cynthia takes weekly lessons and recently purchased a Children's Hunter we hope can also do the Big Eq" is EXTREMELY LOW CLASS it's like the horse equivalent of Instagramming your new Camry or something or living in Rockville but you call it Potomac. Or living in Potomac, for that matter.

Anyway, do you guys know why so many Small Pony Hunters are gray (white, to you non-equestrians)? It's because they systematically kill the other ones shortly after birth.

Also guys there is a genuinely weird lady in Middleburg who may or may not have paid for a series of bonkers, dubiously factual magazine features about herself with a field full of pony clones. Not kidding.

wow a beach that's fun I guess


That's a Bloomberg and some Rockefellers and the Eiffel Tower, which I guess they like rented?


tfw Charlotte Casiraghi is also on your showjumping "team"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The working class man, like the rich man, is sentimental and driven by comfort. He usually eats the same meals and has least adventurous palate of all the classes. The working class house is full of items of personal significance, such as family photos, and a quilt made by grandma. Decor also includes wallpaper borders, Americana themes, and signs with touching phrases like "bless this mess". Working class vacations usually involve staying with relatives or camping, and aspirational vacations are Disney or a cruise. Hawaii is working class Valhalla. Entertainment includes television, movies, sports bars, bowling, being a spectator at sporting events such as baseball or football, hosting potlucks, and hosting MLM parties. Education is regarded as career advancement; degree programs like nursing are considered superior to degrees like Economics, which are perceived as lacking job opportunities and practical application.

Paul Fussell?

He’s dead, but this does read like him.

So wait. Profiling PP was quoting Fussell all along?

Profile writer here. I wasn't quoting Fussell but this certainly tracks with his book on the topic. As someone who is obviously very interested in class, I have read his book. Twice.

I admire your honesty about your interests! Just, when you get called out on things like dog shows and Portugal (does Fussell mention Portugal?), don’t keep insisting on them, is all.

Anonymous wrote:Ok, this thread is increasingly seeming destined to become a DCUM classic

We are debating whether UC WASPs go to Portugal and the class distinctions signaled by Pottery Barn vs. Stickley (as if this were a question).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The working class man, like the rich man, is sentimental and driven by comfort. He usually eats the same meals and has least adventurous palate of all the classes. The working class house is full of items of personal significance, such as family photos, and a quilt made by grandma. Decor also includes wallpaper borders, Americana themes, and signs with touching phrases like "bless this mess". Working class vacations usually involve staying with relatives or camping, and aspirational vacations are Disney or a cruise. Hawaii is working class Valhalla. Entertainment includes television, movies, sports bars, bowling, being a spectator at sporting events such as baseball or football, hosting potlucks, and hosting MLM parties. Education is regarded as career advancement; degree programs like nursing are considered superior to degrees like Economics, which are perceived as lacking job opportunities and practical application.

Paul Fussell?

He’s dead, but this does read like him.

So wait. Profiling PP was quoting Fussell all along?

Profile writer here. I wasn't quoting Fussell but this certainly tracks with his book on the topic. As someone who is obviously very interested in class, I have read his book. Twice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

Daughters of billionaires seem to do this. I think there is a Gates daughter who does and a Dell daughter. Bloomberg's daughter as well.

As does/did Springsteen’s daughter.These are all new money, though, fwiw.

I know numerous UMC and even MC daughters in the DMV area who do this—DC’s classmates and friends’ kids.

The point is, show jumping/dressage is not a marker of old money, or “class” if you want, contrary to what’s been said here.

The

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You use a decorator who orders from trade-only brands. A lot of it is the same stuff from the same makers in NC as retail brands, but having that same basic piece in a coordinating, nicer fabric makes a difference. Decorator can also help you mix in some antiques (which don't have to be expensive!). What makes a room look good and pulled together imo is not mainly the "quality" of the furniture, it's whether the scale and style of the furniture make sense in a layout that makes sense with a cohesive color scheme and some personality. You can drop a mint at Thomas Moser or go on Craigslist, but if your furniture is the wrong size or doesn't make sense in context it will look terrible.

The points about scale and color are excellent for any style of decorating. But hiring a decorator is how you end up with generic-looking, “new-new” furniture of the Restoration Hardware ilk (good quality, at least) and strange accent pieces.

If you want modern furniture, I’m all for that, so long as a decorator doesn’t make your place look like a BigLaw lobby. If you want the Restoration Hardware look, save the midddleperson decorator, go to their showroom, and buy a suite. Same BigLaw decorating issues apply.

But this won’t be an “old money” look, if that’s what you’re going for, being the subject of this thread. My parents, who have old money, briefly hired an interior decorator to work on their 200-year-old house. She wanted to put eagle sconces everywhere, among other things. In the end, they did it themselves (or rather my mom did it) and went with a combination of inherited quality antiques (grandfather clock, Queen Anne chairs, etc) and Danish modern living room furniture (you can get a Danish Modern chair on eBay for about $1,500, not that you’d want to do exactly that, but to give you an idea). The word “suite” anything is pretty much an anathema, except in the dining room, because the point is that your furniture was collected over many generations, and of course none of it matches. Yet with some reupholstery and careful placement you can absolutely get a harmonious and pleasing whole. The result is a more personal look.

Sure, that's great if you've inherited all these things, but that doesn't help people starting out. Any suggestions for acquiring these pieces? Estate sales? I've tried some, but it seems like a good wayt to pick up a lot of stuff that can easily look junky.

Anonymous wrote:
There is a small minority posting some version of Grey Gardens as the “typical UC”. Just cover yourself in filth and holed up clothing and stay away from Portugal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As requested:

The UMC man is class secure and therefore has greater range for personal expression than the MC. The current trend of dandy socks, for example, originated in the UMC before being emulated by the lower classes. UMC men are now wearing slightly mismatched prints on their suits, high top leather dress shoes/boots, and other indicators that the man has panache. The UMC woman will also take more license in her clothing than the more timid MC woman. She may wear a sheath dress with her lithe, toned arms serving as the actual fashion statement. She will not be as concerned about "looking professional" as about being stylish, although she manages to both. UMC women are less likely to have polished nails and their hair, in its ideal state, has its natural color and appears slightly undone.

The UMC places great emphasis on knowledge and learning, and this extends far beyond schooling. Their kids will be well travelled and exposed to events, people, and institutions that serve to broaden their perspective or whet their curiosity. For example, they may have their friend who works at an innovative company like google arrange for a tour, or take their kids to see how gouda cheese is made at a dairy in Holland.

The UMC man has a hobby- skiing, flying Cessnas, or sailing are preferred. The women are fit and may ski, run, or use a boutique like orangetheory. They likely have involvement in civic activities.

UMC has the most adventurous palate of the classes, preferring to consume cultural knowledge in food format. They have tried every cuisine. At the moment, the UMC has a crush on America and wants to eat it in all forms- Hawaiian, Californian, Cajun, Southern, BBQ, etc. Preferably whilst listening to distinctly American music like jazz or the blues- and the most class secure are experimenting with country and honky tonk. The UMC now prefers California wine over French, and the kost secure are in the midst of discovering the joy of sparkling wine. Cab and pinot are becoming a bit passe, unless the latter is from Oregon. So, Zinfandel is on the rise. The UMC also adores craft beer, whiskey, and tequila.

I want to hate this and dismiss it as stereotypes, but it is so-so representative of DH and me. Though I much prefer French wines, even though I live in California. Except for Los Carneros Merlots. And DH's wardrobe is completely boring

I want to hear about the upper class version of this. We are UMC and the part about not having your hair down and color is a little close for comfort. Although in my kids private school the moms always have the hair done so I’m always so confused.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The working class man, like the rich man, is sentimental and driven by comfort. He usually eats the same meals and has least adventurous palate of all the classes. The working class house is full of items of personal significance, such as family photos, and a quilt made by grandma. Decor also includes wallpaper borders, Americana themes, and signs with touching phrases like "bless this mess". Working class vacations usually involve staying with relatives or camping, and aspirational vacations are Disney or a cruise. Hawaii is working class Valhalla. Entertainment includes television, movies, sports bars, bowling, being a spectator at sporting events such as baseball or football, hosting potlucks, and hosting MLM parties. Education is regarded as career advancement; degree programs like nursing are considered superior to degrees like Economics, which are perceived as lacking job opportunities and practical application.

Paul Fussell?

He’s dead, but this does read like him.

So wait. Profiling PP was quoting Fussell all along?

Anonymous wrote:
There is a small minority posting some version of Grey Gardens as the “typical UC”. Just cover yourself in filth and holed up clothing and stay away from Portugal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You use a decorator who orders from trade-only brands. A lot of it is the same stuff from the same makers in NC as retail brands, but having that same basic piece in a coordinating, nicer fabric makes a difference. Decorator can also help you mix in some antiques (which don't have to be expensive!). What makes a room look good and pulled together imo is not mainly the "quality" of the furniture, it's whether the scale and style of the furniture make sense in a layout that makes sense with a cohesive color scheme and some personality. You can drop a mint at Thomas Moser or go on Craigslist, but if your furniture is the wrong size or doesn't make sense in context it will look terrible.

The points about scale and color are excellent for any style of decorating. But hiring a decorator is how you end up with generic-looking, “new-new” furniture of the Restoration Hardware ilk (good quality, at least) and strange accent pieces.

If you want modern furniture, I’m all for that, so long as a decorator doesn’t make your place look like a BigLaw lobby. If you want the Restoration Hardware look, save the midddleperson decorator, go to their showroom, and buy a suite. Same BigLaw decorating issues apply.

But this won’t be an “old money” look, if that’s what you’re going for, being the subject of this thread. My parents, who have old money, briefly hired an interior decorator to work on their 200-year-old house. She wanted to put eagle sconces everywhere, among other things. In the end, they did it themselves (or rather my mom did it) and went with a combination of inherited quality antiques (grandfather clock, Queen Anne chairs, etc) and Danish modern living room furniture (you can get a Danish Modern chair on eBay for about $1,500, not that you’d want to do exactly that, but to give you an idea). The word “suite” anything is pretty much an anathema, except in the dining room, because the point is that your furniture was collected over many generations, and of course none of it matches. Yet with some reupholstery and careful placement you can absolutely get a harmonious and pleasing whole. The result is a more personal look.