Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:first it was racism/that's racist now it's white fragility

terms used by people who can't win arguments and use made up words to shut down debate

So you believe that racism is just a made up word made up to shut down debate? How breathtakingly ignorant of you. Apparently you have never heard of slavery, 10,000 people killed by lynching, sundown towns, the dozens of massacres of blacks during reconstruction, redlining, housing discrimination, employment discrimination, Jim Crow, poll tests, grandfather clauses, ongoing wage, school discipline, policing and employment discrimination as well as all of the other facets of institutionalized racism I linked to above.

Congrats. You win the prize for stupidest post ever on DCUM.

congrats you play the victim card extremely well. Here's a tip instead of waiting for your reparations check try and make something of your life. It's 2019

my original point if someone uses racisim white privilege white fragility it is just a tactic to shut down debate and avoid having an actual logical conversation

Poster that you're responding do. I'm a white male in my 50s. I own a tech firm and have more money than I will ever really need, as will my kids. Housing discrimination, wage discrimination, voter suppression, unequal policing and all of the facets of institutional racism that i linked to previously are alive and well and getting worse in 2019. Your followup was not quite as stupid as your original, but close.

NP. Well, rich white dude thanks for for richsplaining struggles to the rest of us.

Here we are, a bunch of families who cannot afford private schools, seemingly fighting over incomprehensibly limited resources that force high-schoolers 4 grades apart to go to the same physics class. Half of them are calling the other half racist. Noting that we're in DC, an overwhelmingly liberal city. You KNOW that PP does not think that racism is just a made-up word. You KNOW that she has heard of all the horrors that have taken place in our country in the past. You also probably know that all she wants is for her kid to be taught physics at a level that will help him grow.

And that's when you seagull drop in to anonymously virtue signal and call someone stupid, twice.

+1. Well said.

Nobody here thinks racism doesn’t exist; we all know its pernicious effects.

The question is whether HFA repairs some harms of racism — which it is apparently is intended to do. If so, if HFA does, in fact, repair some harms of racism, then
(1) do the benefits outweigh the collateral negative impacts?
(2) is it the principal’s place to favor the needs of some students over others as a cost of pursuing a social or political goal?
(3) is their a more effective way to solve this problem, like adding more intensive support in elementary or middle school, changing the ‘tracking’ process to incorporate relevant testing, etc etc.

Rich white dude here. Should mention that I'm also a Wilson dad. I agree with most of what you wrote, except for the bolded. I am not convinced that HFA is a good idea, but I think we need to acknowledged that HFA is designed to address the racial achievement gap. A bunch of the (apparently white) PPs on this thread have repeatedly made the following points:

1. The "common sense" approach used previously was fine (an approach in which some schools recommended zero students for honors).
2. We know racism was a problem in the past.
3. White privilege and white fragility are not real.

Until we white parents who disagree with HFA can approach discussions of the topic with recognition that:

1. racism is an ongoing problem TODAY
2. we are coming from a place of relative privilege
3. by and large, as a group we tend to be really uncomfortable talking about racism today and our role in it

I think attempts to come together as a community to address these issues won't succeed. To me, the rancor and craziness of this thread (e.g. folks saying that I'm a sock puppet for calling out blatant racism -- and Jeff, if you are reading this thread, feel free to weigh in on this based on server logs) illustrate point 3 above really clearly. We've gotta get past this in order to have the conversations that lead to your point 3.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know that it's very, very much harder for first generation college students to finish college. UVA didn't desegregate fully until the 1960. Likewise for UNC. At UNC, parties with Klan costumes and blackface were not unknown in the 1980 (just check out the yearbook from those years if you doubt it).

We all know that most middle class people have traditionally accumulated family wealth through their home. Restrictive covenants and other kinds of housing discrimination prevented black families from owning homes that would appreciate until the 70s, and housing discrimination continues in 2019.

Where are the black landowners who were kicked off the land where Ft Reno is now in the early 1900s?

When were DC schools desegregated, and how did the white community respond?

These are the roots of "inadequate prior experience."

The roots of the inadequate prior experience are far more complex than that. Middle-class AA families are relatively new to the middle class- there were very few of them just two generations ago. Unfortunately, typical upwardly mobile UMC behaviors, like reading for pleasure and turning the TV off so kids can read, aren't seen as much with AA families as whites and Asians, not yet. The black-white achievement gap can't simply be explained by housing discrimination and white wealth. Poor whites do a little better overall in higher education than equally poor blacks, and Asians do much better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We all know that it's very, very much harder for first generation college students to finish college. UVA didn't desegregate fully until the 1960. Likewise for UNC. At UNC, parties with Klan costumes and blackface were not unknown in the 1980 (just check out the yearbook from those years if you doubt it).

We all know that most middle class people have traditionally accumulated family wealth through their home. Restrictive covenants and other kinds of housing discrimination prevented black families from owning homes that would appreciate until the 70s, and housing discrimination continues in 2019.

Where are the black landowners who were kicked off the land where Ft Reno is now in the early 1900s?

When were DC schools desegregated, and how did the white community respond?

These are the roots of "inadequate prior experience."

The roots of the inadequate prior experience are far more complex than that. Middle-class AA families are relatively new to the middle class- there were very few of them just two generations ago. Unfortunately, typical upwardly mobile UMC behaviors, like reading for pleasure and turning the TV off so kids can read, aren't seen as much with AA families as whites and Asians, not yet. The black-white achievement gap can't simply be explained by housing discrimination and white wealth. Poor whites do a little better overall in higher education than equally poor blacks, and Asians do much better.

Anonymous wrote:We all know that it's very, very much harder for first generation college students to finish college. UVA didn't desegregate fully until the 1960. Likewise for UNC. At UNC, parties with Klan costumes and blackface were not unknown in the 1980 (just check out the yearbook from those years if you doubt it).

We all know that most middle class people have traditionally accumulated family wealth through their home. Restrictive covenants and other kinds of housing discrimination prevented black families from owning homes that would appreciate until the 70s, and housing discrimination continues in 2019.

Where are the black landowners who were kicked off the land where Ft Reno is now in the early 1900s?

When were DC schools desegregated, and how did the white community respond?

These are the roots of "inadequate prior experience."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:first it was racism/that's racist now it's white fragility

terms used by people who can't win arguments and use made up words to shut down debate

So you believe that racism is just a made up word made up to shut down debate? How breathtakingly ignorant of you. Apparently you have never heard of slavery, 10,000 people killed by lynching, sundown towns, the dozens of massacres of blacks during reconstruction, redlining, housing discrimination, employment discrimination, Jim Crow, poll tests, grandfather clauses, ongoing wage, school discipline, policing and employment discrimination as well as all of the other facets of institutionalized racism I linked to above.

Congrats. You win the prize for stupidest post ever on DCUM.

congrats you play the victim card extremely well. Here's a tip instead of waiting for your reparations check try and make something of your life. It's 2019

my original point if someone uses racisim white privilege white fragility it is just a tactic to shut down debate and avoid having an actual logical conversation

Poster that you're responding do. I'm a white male in my 50s. I own a tech firm and have more money than I will ever really need, as will my kids. Housing discrimination, wage discrimination, voter suppression, unequal policing and all of the facets of institutional racism that i linked to previously are alive and well and getting worse in 2019. Your followup was not quite as stupid as your original, but close.

NP. Well, rich white dude thanks for for richsplaining struggles to the rest of us.

Here we are, a bunch of families who cannot afford private schools, seemingly fighting over incomprehensibly limited resources that force high-schoolers 4 grades apart to go to the same physics class. Half of them are calling the other half racist. Noting that we're in DC, an overwhelmingly liberal city. You KNOW that PP does not think that racism is just a made-up word. You KNOW that she has heard of all the horrors that have taken place in our country in the past. You also probably know that all she wants is for her kid to be taught physics at a level that will help him grow.

And that's when you seagull drop in to anonymously virtue signal and call someone stupid, twice.

+1. Well said.

Nobody here thinks racism doesn’t exist; we all know its pernicious effects.

The question is whether HFA repairs some harms of racism — which it is apparently is intended to do. If so, if HFA does, in fact, repair some harms of racism, then
(1) do the benefits outweigh the collateral negative impacts?
(2) is it the principal’s place to favor the needs of some students over others as a cost of pursuing a social or political goal?
(3) is their a more effective way to solve this problem, like adding more intensive support in elementary or middle school, changing the ‘tracking’ process to incorporate relevant testing, etc etc.

1) To #1 I think one data point that can get at this is the Wilson GPA chart broken out by race over the years since HFA was implemented. However, we would need to decide what are appropriate measures to determine this over time.

2) If one group has had most of the advantages in education then any principal should be compelled to try and create opportunity for those from groups who have borne the brunt of inequality. What evidence do you have that a particular group would suffer more from a program like HFA? I think there probably are some data points available that can get at the fact that white families will not suffer major consequences from HFA. Many not all, white families at Wilson have other social factors in their favor that would minimize any potential detriment that HFA might cause, primarily education, money and social capital. BTW even though you didn't use race in your post, that is clearly what you meant. I have more respect for people if they would just say what they mean and stop talking in code. I think we would get a lot further.

3) Of course that may be the case. Bring some solutions to the table. I do think waiting around for there to be an answer that satisfies everyone is not tenable.

I’m not “speaking in code.” I think the question is relevant on many vectors. For example, should a principal prioritize the need of pta donor families?

Principal Wilson draws a connection between HFA and race. IMHO, that’s a mistake. If there is justification for HFA, it has to do with inadequate prior experiences for some students, whatever their race.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:first it was racism/that's racist now it's white fragility

terms used by people who can't win arguments and use made up words to shut down debate

So you believe that racism is just a made up word made up to shut down debate? How breathtakingly ignorant of you. Apparently you have never heard of slavery, 10,000 people killed by lynching, sundown towns, the dozens of massacres of blacks during reconstruction, redlining, housing discrimination, employment discrimination, Jim Crow, poll tests, grandfather clauses, ongoing wage, school discipline, policing and employment discrimination as well as all of the other facets of institutionalized racism I linked to above.

Congrats. You win the prize for stupidest post ever on DCUM.

congrats you play the victim card extremely well. Here's a tip instead of waiting for your reparations check try and make something of your life. It's 2019

my original point if someone uses racisim white privilege white fragility it is just a tactic to shut down debate and avoid having an actual logical conversation

Poster that you're responding do. I'm a white male in my 50s. I own a tech firm and have more money than I will ever really need, as will my kids. Housing discrimination, wage discrimination, voter suppression, unequal policing and all of the facets of institutional racism that i linked to previously are alive and well and getting worse in 2019. Your followup was not quite as stupid as your original, but close.

NP. Well, rich white dude thanks for for richsplaining struggles to the rest of us.

Here we are, a bunch of families who cannot afford private schools, seemingly fighting over incomprehensibly limited resources that force high-schoolers 4 grades apart to go to the same physics class. Half of them are calling the other half racist. Noting that we're in DC, an overwhelmingly liberal city. You KNOW that PP does not think that racism is just a made-up word. You KNOW that she has heard of all the horrors that have taken place in our country in the past. You also probably know that all she wants is for her kid to be taught physics at a level that will help him grow.

And that's when you seagull drop in to anonymously virtue signal and call someone stupid, twice.

+1. Well said.

Nobody here thinks racism doesn’t exist; we all know its pernicious effects.

The question is whether HFA repairs some harms of racism — which it is apparently is intended to do. If so, if HFA does, in fact, repair some harms of racism, then
(1) do the benefits outweigh the collateral negative impacts?
(2) is it the principal’s place to favor the needs of some students over others as a cost of pursuing a social or political goal?
(3) is their a more effective way to solve this problem, like adding more intensive support in elementary or middle school, changing the ‘tracking’ process to incorporate relevant testing, etc etc.

1) To #1 I think one data point that can get at this is the Wilson GPA chart broken out by race over the years since HFA was implemented. However, we would need to decide what are appropriate measures to determine this over time.

2) If one group has had most of the advantages in education then any principal should be compelled to try and create opportunity for those from groups who have borne the brunt of inequality. What evidence do you have that a particular group would suffer more from a program like HFA? I think there probably are some data points available that can get at the fact that white families will not suffer major consequences from HFA. Many not all, white families at Wilson have other social factors in their favor that would minimize any potential detriment that HFA might cause, primarily education, money and social capital. BTW even though you didn't use race in your post, that is clearly what you meant. I have more respect for people if they would just say what they mean and stop talking in code. I think we would get a lot further.

3) Of course that may be the case. Bring some solutions to the table. I do think waiting around for there to be an answer that satisfies everyone is not tenable.