This thread has meandered all over the place. To get back to AA policies, I say that blacks from HHI of $100,000+ should get no "points" for being black in terms of college admissions. If a poor white has better grades and scores, then he should get the leg up - and the slot. Fair?

I'm not one of those insecure Negroes that harbors hatred or resentment for white folks for their privilege or my plight. I'm not the type to cling to negative sentiments or allow such thoughts to permeate my peace of mind. I know that blacks have been thru hell and I know that many blacks are still mired in hellish conditions to this day - sadly sometimes their problems and predicaments are self-imposed.

But I also know that blacks are still here still advancing and achieving and aspiring and attaining. I know that all efforts to keep blacks down permanently have failed and I know that all obstacles and barriers to hold blacks back ultimately were and will be overcome.

So having said all that, basically the point I'm trying to make is that no matter what negative caricature of the Negro it is that some may have etched in their brains that they base opinions and generalizations of all black people on - whether it be the ghetto thug or the single parent or whatever - that's not going to deter black people nor will it ultimately define black people.

I may be in the minority on this but despite all the prejudiced presumptions people make I see millions of blacks who are respected educators and remarkable innovators and capable leaders and constant achievers. If some can't see this vast segment of society or aren't inclined to give any credibility to the existence of educated or successful black people then that's their choice - but Affirmative Action or not I guarantee you that segment of educated and successful black people will persevere and prevail and proliferate. That's what blacks have always done.

Also keep in mind that public schools in this country are paid by local taxes. This means that in areas of high poverty there are fewer resources for schools and higher teacher turnover.
When people buy their house based on which school district it's in, this creates self segregation. It's no coincidence that Wootton high school is jokingly called Wonton high school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to public (state) schools with diverse populations. I distinctly remember that in nearly every class, roughly half of the AAs were getting terrible grades. They would do poorly on tests, rarely do homework and end up with Ds and Fs. Yes, some AAs would do well. And some kids from other races would do poorly, but there was clearly a disparity.

Was it because AAs are less intelligent? No. You don't have to be smart to get good grades in a public K-12. You just have to study and do your homework! Why is it that some kids study and do their homework, and others do not? The answer is because their parents force them to! That is THE reason. Kids do not naturally want to study or do homework. You have to pressure them. Jewsish, Asian and UMC White kids are forced to do their homework and study. Their parents check their homework EVERY DAY and if they get bad grades, there is hell to pay. They ride their kids' asses for their entire childhood to make sure that they get good grades and get into decent schools because they know that this is hugely important. I can't express enough how much of a difference there is between a typical Jewish/Asian/UMC White household an a typical AA/Latino/Poor White household when it comes to the expectations that they put on their children for education.

So you're saying that kids learn to study and do their homework from their parents, who presumably learned it from their parents, who presumably learned it from theirs, who presumably learned it from theirs, and so on and so forth. In other words, what happened generations ago still continues to affect kids today. Huh.

If only there was a way to break the cycle...

Not every generation of "good" students learned to do their homework from their parents, who learned it from their parents. How do you explain the poor, uneducated Jews who came here in the early. 1900s, and their kids did their homework and went to college? There was a jump there from uneducated parents to educated children.

So then you don't think it's worth trying to break the cycle?

That was my point. That apparently there IS a way to break the cycle, as past experiences show.

Great! Let's send more AAs to college!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are good at making assumptions. I don't have to be black to make a case for Affirmative Action. Holocaust is bad but not nearly as bad as slavery which went on for centuries and killed millions of blacks and deprived them the very humanity you take for granted. It is much much worse than Holocaust. No one said everything is someone else's fault. But slavery, jim crow, cop shooting of unarmed blacks, harsh criminal justice reserved for minor black crimes are all on the hands of systemic racism.

oh

Here we go again. Let's see whose history is worse - descendants of slaves or descendants of the Holocaust.

lynchings
gas chambers
rapes
brutal force
starvation
child labor
breaking families apart

You must be very competitive, PP. but for all the wrong reasons . . .

Um and how many rapes, murders, and robberies have blacks committed against whites? They commute violent crimes against white demonstrators FAR more frequently than whites against blacks. So we should reward them?

Well, if we're trying to keep score, AAs have a long way to catch up. Look out, whitey.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are good at making assumptions. I don't have to be black to make a case for Affirmative Action. Holocaust is bad but not nearly as bad as slavery which went on for centuries and killed millions of blacks and deprived them the very humanity you take for granted. It is much much worse than Holocaust. No one said everything is someone else's fault. But slavery, jim crow, cop shooting of unarmed blacks, harsh criminal justice reserved for minor black crimes are all on the hands of systemic racism.

oh

Here we go again. Let's see whose history is worse - descendants of slaves or descendants of the Holocaust.

lynchings
gas chambers
rapes
brutal force
starvation
child labor
breaking families apart

You must be very competitive, PP. but for all the wrong reasons . . .

Um and how many rapes, murders, and robberies have blacks committed against whites? They commute violent crimes against white demonstrators FAR more frequently than whites against blacks. So we should reward them?

DP. And what's with this comparison between "descendants of slaves" and "descendants of the Holocaust"? You seem to be implying that Jews can trace their persecution back 70 years to a single historical event. Jews have been mistreated and expelled from countries beginning before the time of Jesus.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/historyjewishpersecution/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to public (state) schools with diverse populations. I distinctly remember that in nearly every class, roughly half of the AAs were getting terrible grades. They would do poorly on tests, rarely do homework and end up with Ds and Fs. Yes, some AAs would do well. And some kids from other races would do poorly, but there was clearly a disparity.

Was it because AAs are less intelligent? No. You don't have to be smart to get good grades in a public K-12. You just have to study and do your homework! Why is it that some kids study and do their homework, and others do not? The answer is because their parents force them to! That is THE reason. Kids do not naturally want to study or do homework. You have to pressure them. Jewsish, Asian and UMC White kids are forced to do their homework and study. Their parents check their homework EVERY DAY and if they get bad grades, there is hell to pay. They ride their kids' asses for their entire childhood to make sure that they get good grades and get into decent schools because they know that this is hugely important. I can't express enough how much of a difference there is between a typical Jewish/Asian/UMC White household an a typical AA/Latino/Poor White household when it comes to the expectations that they put on their children for education.

So you're saying that kids learn to study and do their homework from their parents, who presumably learned it from their parents, who presumably learned it from theirs, who presumably learned it from theirs, and so on and so forth. In other words, what happened generations ago still continues to affect kids today. Huh.

If only there was a way to break the cycle...

Not every generation of "good" students learned to do their homework from their parents, who learned it from their parents. How do you explain the poor, uneducated Jews who came here in the early. 1900s, and their kids did their homework and went to college? There was a jump there from uneducated parents to educated children.

So then you don't think it's worth trying to break the cycle?

That was my point. That apparently there IS a way to break the cycle, as past experiences show.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to public (state) schools with diverse populations. I distinctly remember that in nearly every class, roughly half of the AAs were getting terrible grades. They would do poorly on tests, rarely do homework and end up with Ds and Fs. Yes, some AAs would do well. And some kids from other races would do poorly, but there was clearly a disparity.

Was it because AAs are less intelligent? No. You don't have to be smart to get good grades in a public K-12. You just have to study and do your homework! Why is it that some kids study and do their homework, and others do not? The answer is because their parents force them to! That is THE reason. Kids do not naturally want to study or do homework. You have to pressure them. Jewsish, Asian and UMC White kids are forced to do their homework and study. Their parents check their homework EVERY DAY and if they get bad grades, there is hell to pay. They ride their kids' asses for their entire childhood to make sure that they get good grades and get into decent schools because they know that this is hugely important. I can't express enough how much of a difference there is between a typical Jewish/Asian/UMC White household an a typical AA/Latino/Poor White household when it comes to the expectations that they put on their children for education.

So you're saying that kids learn to study and do their homework from their parents, who presumably learned it from their parents, who presumably learned it from theirs, who presumably learned it from theirs, and so on and so forth. In other words, what happened generations ago still continues to affect kids today. Huh.

If only there was a way to break the cycle...

Not every generation of "good" students learned to do their homework from their parents, who learned it from their parents. How do you explain the poor, uneducated Jews who came here in the early. 1900s, and their kids did their homework and went to college? There was a jump there from uneducated parents to educated children.

So then you don't think it's worth trying to break the cycle?

Anonymous wrote:

You are good at making assumptions. I don't have to be black to make a case for Affirmative Action. Holocaust is bad but not nearly as bad as slavery which went on for centuries and killed millions of blacks and deprived them the very humanity you take for granted. It is much much worse than Holocaust. No one said everything is someone else's fault. But slavery, jim crow, cop shooting of unarmed blacks, harsh criminal justice reserved for minor black crimes are all on the hands of systemic racism.

oh

Here we go again. Let's see whose history is worse - descendants of slaves or descendants of the Holocaust.

lynchings
gas chambers
rapes
brutal force
starvation
child labor
breaking families apart

You must be very competitive, PP. but for all the wrong reasons . . .

Um and how many rapes, murders, and robberies have blacks committed against whites? They commute violent crimes against white demonstrators FAR more frequently than whites against blacks. So we should reward them?

Anonymous wrote:

You are good at making assumptions. I don't have to be black to make a case for Affirmative Action. Holocaust is bad but not nearly as bad as slavery which went on for centuries and killed millions of blacks and deprived them the very humanity you take for granted. It is much much worse than Holocaust. No one said everything is someone else's fault. But slavery, jim crow, cop shooting of unarmed blacks, harsh criminal justice reserved for minor black crimes are all on the hands of systemic racism.

oh

Here we go again. Let's see whose history is worse - descendants of slaves or descendants of the Holocaust.

lynchings
gas chambers
rapes
brutal force
starvation
child labor
breaking families apart

You must be very competitive, PP. but for all the wrong reasons . . .

Everything except gas chambers applies to blacks. But the biggest difference is that black is for centuries. So they are broken people without any historical moorings or history of education. It is much much worse. Unlike Jews who came from fairly developed Europe the blacks on slave ships from already backward Africa. So it is absolutely not a fair comparison.

Anonymous wrote:I went to public (state) schools with diverse populations. I distinctly remember that in nearly every class, roughly half of the AAs were getting terrible grades. They would do poorly on tests, rarely do homework and end up with Ds and Fs. Yes, some AAs would do well. And some kids from other races would do poorly, but there was clearly a disparity.

Was it because AAs are less intelligent? No. You don't have to be smart to get good grades in a public K-12. You just have to study and do your homework! Why is it that some kids study and do their homework, and others do not? The answer is because their parents force them to! That is THE reason. Kids do not naturally want to study or do homework. You have to pressure them. Jewsish, Asian and UMC White kids are forced to do their homework and study. Their parents check their homework EVERY DAY and if they get bad grades, there is hell to pay. They ride their kids' asses for their entire childhood to make sure that they get good grades and get into decent schools because they know that this is hugely important. I can't express enough how much of a difference there is between a typical Jewish/Asian/UMC White household an a typical AA/Latino/Poor White household when it comes to the expectations that they put on their children for education.

Meh, I'm Asian and grew up UMC. My parents definitely valued education, but they were generally uninvolved in our lives. We all got good grades, but I'm doubtful if they knew most days whether we finished our homework or got a bad grade (which we all rarely did). We just happened to grow up in a financially stable environment where it was obvious that our parents' education contributed to our success and we saw them constantly reading and learning. My dad still practices medicine in a field where most of his cohort has retired, because he continued to educate himself and stayed up late nights getting certified in new techniques long after most of his friends were happy to coast. You learn a lot about the value of education when you see your parent come home after a 10 hour day and crack open textbooks and study into the late hours of the night.

My point? All these communities value education because education has enabled them to be successful. You don't need to ride your kids to have them understand the value of education. Kids from communities that haven't historically had as much access to education or seen how it can lead to financial success don't have the same incentives to become educated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Same OP as above. I don't know, but I would also guess that it was strong - and for the same reason that the Jews had/have strong family units - survival.

But that begs the next question. Why have the Jews maintained their strong emphasis on intact families, yet in recent years there has been a breakdown iin intact black families. Any idea why?

Families were ripped apart and sold off, women raped by their masters or task-masters etc. The idea of a cohesive family unit among slaves is laughable if it wasn't so outrageous that you would even suggest it.

Jews faced that in Egypt, no?

Check back with African -Americans in 3000 AD.

Conjecture is that the Jewish slaves in Egypt were black.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to public (state) schools with diverse populations. I distinctly remember that in nearly every class, roughly half of the AAs were getting terrible grades. They would do poorly on tests, rarely do homework and end up with Ds and Fs. Yes, some AAs would do well. And some kids from other races would do poorly, but there was clearly a disparity.

Was it because AAs are less intelligent? No. You don't have to be smart to get good grades in a public K-12. You just have to study and do your homework! Why is it that some kids study and do their homework, and others do not? The answer is because their parents force them to! That is THE reason. Kids do not naturally want to study or do homework. You have to pressure them. Jewsish, Asian and UMC White kids are forced to do their homework and study. Their parents check their homework EVERY DAY and if they get bad grades, there is hell to pay. They ride their kids' asses for their entire childhood to make sure that they get good grades and get into decent schools because they know that this is hugely important. I can't express enough how much of a difference there is between a typical Jewish/Asian/UMC White household an a typical AA/Latino/Poor White household when it comes to the expectations that they put on their children for education.

So you're saying that kids learn to study and do their homework from their parents, who presumably learned it from their parents, who presumably learned it from theirs, who presumably learned it from theirs, and so on and so forth. In other words, what happened generations ago still continues to affect kids today. Huh.

If only there was a way to break the cycle...

Not every generation of "good" students learned to do their homework from their parents, who learned it from their parents. How do you explain the poor, uneducated Jews who came here in the early. 1900s, and their kids did their homework and went to college? There was a jump there from uneducated parents to educated children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Emulate them? Are you kidding? The Jewish people in this country would hate that. That would mean that all the top jobs at elite universities would be given to blacks and they would only promote other blacks. Most everyone in power in the media, banking, and Hollywood would be black. Harvard, Yale, etc would be mostly black. Jewish people will never let this happen. They may be only 2% of the population but they make damn sure they are the 1%. If anyone points out how Jews always look out first for other Jews especially in elite admissions they give you the one two punch and call you a Nazi. They say they are discriminated against and call the NAACP. Some rabbi had a fit that Princeton was not Jewish enough at 25%. What happened in Nazi Germany was horrible but plenty of non Jews lost their lives trying to defeat Hitler. In this country Jewish people have lived a life of privilege. It is a lie that Jews are smarter than African Americans.

The difference is this - that while the Holocaust and slavery broke apart families - separated men from women, husbands from wives, brothers from sisters - the Jewish culture, b/c the Holocaust period was shorter than slavery, could still focus on intact families. The family unit and the traditions surrounding a shared religion keep people together.

They're not privileged. That's a pretty sick statement, PP. It's called survival.

If, as you say, ". . . Jews always look out for other Jews . . . " you should be asking, "Why is this?" It's something to envy. But you sound jealous.

Remember that plenty of non-blacks helped fight against slavery, too. So what's your point there?

Agree, and let's not act as though the Jews suffered through a single four-year period of horrific treatment, and that was that. They've been persecuted, enslaved, and murdered going back 2000 years.

It all boils down to a strong family unit. Jews have it in spades.

Strong family units.
Yes, quite an essential element for acquisition and sustainment of success.
Tell me something...prior to the recent advent of implementing forensic science into our judicial system allowing evidence like DNA and gunshot residue to be considered thus preventing wrongful convictions, would you say there were a significant number of Jewish families ripped apart at the seams by unlawful and unjust imprisonment? Would you say there were many Jewish families torn asunder by racial violence?
Take your time before you answer. Let's go back to 1950...WWII is over Jews are getting settled and they're experiencing prejudice and discrimination...but are they being lynched? Are they getting arrested en masses and beaten and thrown in jail just for the color of their skin by officers sworn to protect and serve the people? During those pivotal formative years when Jews were advancing in education and acquiring wealth and strengthening their family units how many blacks do you suppose were being denied education and being denied the opportunity to attain wealth and how many blacks do you suppose were powerless to prevent the powers that be from dismantling their families and forcing them into a permanent underclass status?
Take your time.

I don't want to play Oppression Olympics anymore. It doesn't help anybody.

I know you don't want to respond to my comment.
At the end of the day you're more than welcome to stick out your chest and hold your head high.
By all means please do take pride in the accomplishments and achievements of Jews, especially considering the obstacles they've had to overcome it truly is remarkable and worthy of praise.
And with all due respect, I intend to do the exact same. There is nothing you can say that can deter me from sticking out my chest and holding my head high and believe me when I say that despite the tendency of some not unlike yourself who try to diminish and degrade blacks as being "lesser" I nonetheless take great pride in the accomplishments and achievements of African-Americans. ESPECIALLY considering the many obstacles that we've had to overcome and continue to wrestle with to this day.

No one is diminishing or degrading blacks. Blacks just have different strengths.

For example, there will never be a Jewish or Asian Serena Williams, Lebron, Jordan, usain bolt, mo Farrah, etc.

That will never ever ever happen.

Black men are also way better at sex.

Oooh look we get to play with stereotypes - cool!
Okay let's run with it...
Yes blacks are better at sex as the porn industry can certainly substantiate and that common knowledge coupled with that explicit industry has created an intense rise in interracial relationships and bi-racial children. Did you know that the multiracial population has increased almost 50 percent since 2000 making it the fastest growing youth group in the country? Such a dramatic shift in the makeup of our populace begs the question...do you think all this bullshit back and forth will finally be put to bed when there are more people with black genes than without?

Your turn

Yes, affirmative action wars and general racial tension will cease when we all look like rashida jones or drake.

Well we'll be dead by then but just think...
There will be more people looking in the mirror in the morning and identifying with slavery than there will be people looking in the mirror in the morning and identifying with slaveowning.
Now THAT is some poetic justice for your ass lol!!

Remember, most AAs have some White blood. What kind of White people do you think that blood came from? Your typical AA probably has as much "slaveowner" blood as your average white guy because most of your white blood came from slaveowners.

True indeed but those blue eyes and blonde hair genes aren't quite as dominant as the all-important melanin and other "Negroid" features, as Darwin would say.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The black concentration is half the Asian concentration at Harvard.

Any analysis of standardized testing score distribution shows clearly that a non- race based system would NOT enable that demographic enrollment mix.

If you are black and get a 1450 on the sat, you can walk into the Ivy League.

I'm white and scored way less than that on the SAT and went to an Ivy League school.

Score inflation.