Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people blaming the Obama Admin if Americans are not allowed to travel there? Or are discouraged from going there.

People who don't understand a concept of personal responsibility always blame someone else.
If the boy was kidnaped by NK intelligence and taken to NK, that would be different.

I don't like obama at all, but what happened to this boy was self inflicted.
Still sorry for him and his family. Doctors said he has extensive brain tissue damage. Awful.

Exactly

Are liberals blaming the black mother on welfare with six kids and no father(s) for her irresponsible life choices? Or are they talking about systemic racism, the history of slavery, etc., etc.?

This kid chose to be reckless. Those women didn't choose to grow up in poverty. Not pardoning their choices, but it's way more complicated than his case.

A college kid goes to NK (admittedly something most people would not do) for a handful of days and the consequences are his fault but a woman who grows up in poverty, has multiple children she cannot afford with no father around, thereby messing up those kids' lives and expecting the taxpayer to take of them, gets a free pass to make stupid decisions for the rest of her life? And then when her children make the same poor choices because they grew up in poverty and the cycle continues, they get a free pass too?

This is such a silly oversimplification.

The kid f-cked up. He went to NK - bad move, but okay. But then he willfully defied the laws of a country known for its despotic tendencies and its merciless justice system (if you can call it that; there's not much justice in that system). He made childish and irresponsible choices that ultimately led to his current situation. It's tragic and no, I don't believe the punishment in any way fit the crime. But the North Koreans have a different take on that and he arrogantly messed with their laws. I feel for his family and for him, but he is to blame.

As for the cycle of poverty and women having kids out of wedlock. Let's not conflate this with Otto's case. The complexity of why women AND men have children despite poverty and whether they in fact get a "free pass" (I'd argue they don't but okay) are totally different issues. Having kids out of wedlock isn't breaking the law in today's America and if we want parents to have fewer kids let's double down on free contraception, education, and providing people with access to education that gives them something to live for and aspire to. But again, this is such a different situation than Otto's case and so much more complex than can be discussed in the context of this forum.

Actually you are the one who is oversimplifying......

Anonymous wrote:Puzzled lefty here-- so, is the (obviously not unanimous) liberal outrage here mainly due to the student's father's comments about Obama and Trump?

I'm just wondering. Is there some general position that I missed-- we don't have compassion for victims of crimes, and in fact adopt the "they asked for it" policy, if their political views and opinions differ from our own? That would be very convenient, so I'm interested in pursuing the opportunity. Substance abusers who die of overdoses, rape and assault victims, victims of terrorist attacks and gun violence-- can we begin posting their political views so that I can determine whether it was their own bad judgment that ultimately did them in and my own comparative moral superiority and good decision-making that leave me able to sit in judgment, rather than a hefty dose of good luck?

(This is not aimed at conservatives. We already disagree, and I respect that. This is et tu, Brute?)

You are really overthinking this. People are disgusted at this man's stupidity and the way his family is blaming politicians for the outcome. It would be like affirmatively deciding to visit the Democratic Republic of Congo, being captured by bandits, and getting my head chopped off -- and then having my family blame Trump for not intervening soon enough to rescue me. F that noise. Doesn't mean it's right for other out of control countries to commit atrocities -- but if you put yourself directly in harm's way and then engage in criminal behavior you don't really deserve to be critical of anyone but yourself.

Puzzled lefty here-- so, is the (obviously not unanimous) liberal outrage here mainly due to the student's father's comments about Obama and Trump?

I'm just wondering. Is there some general position that I missed-- we don't have compassion for victims of crimes, and in fact adopt the "they asked for it" policy, if their political views and opinions differ from our own? That would be very convenient, so I'm interested in pursuing the opportunity. Substance abusers who die of overdoses, rape and assault victims, victims of terrorist attacks and gun violence-- can we begin posting their political views so that I can determine whether it was their own bad judgment that ultimately did them in and my own comparative moral superiority and good decision-making that leave me able to sit in judgment, rather than a hefty dose of good luck?

(This is not aimed at conservatives. We already disagree, and I respect that. This is et tu, Brute?)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people blaming the Obama Admin if Americans are not allowed to travel there? Or are discouraged from going there.

People who don't understand a concept of personal responsibility always blame someone else.
If the boy was kidnaped by NK intelligence and taken to NK, that would be different.

I don't like obama at all, but what happened to this boy was self inflicted.
Still sorry for him and his family. Doctors said he has extensive brain tissue damage. Awful.

Exactly

Are liberals blaming the black mother on welfare with six kids and no father(s) for her irresponsible life choices? Or are they talking about systemic racism, the history of slavery, etc., etc.?

This kid chose to be reckless. Those women didn't choose to grow up in poverty. Not pardoning their choices, but it's way more complicated than his case.

A college kid goes to NK (admittedly something most people would not do) for a handful of days and the consequences are his fault but a woman who grows up in poverty, has multiple children she cannot afford with no father around, thereby messing up those kids' lives and expecting the taxpayer to take of them, gets a free pass to make stupid decisions for the rest of her life? And then when her children make the same poor choices because they grew up in poverty and the cycle continues, they get a free pass too?

This is such a silly oversimplification.

The kid f-cked up. He went to NK - bad move, but okay. But then he willfully defied the laws of a country known for its despotic tendencies and its merciless justice system (if you can call it that; there's not much justice in that system). He made childish and irresponsible choices that ultimately led to his current situation. It's tragic and no, I don't believe the punishment in any way fit the crime. But the North Koreans have a different take on that and he arrogantly messed with their laws. I feel for his family and for him, but he is to blame.

As for the cycle of poverty and women having kids out of wedlock. Let's not conflate this with Otto's case. The complexity of why women AND men have children despite poverty and whether they in fact get a "free pass" (I'd argue they don't but okay) are totally different issues. Having kids out of wedlock isn't breaking the law in today's America and if we want parents to have fewer kids let's double down on free contraception, education, and providing people with access to education that gives them something to live for and aspire to. But again, this is such a different situation than Otto's case and so much more complex than can be discussed in the context of this forum.

Yes & yes!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people blaming the Obama Admin if Americans are not allowed to travel there? Or are discouraged from going there.

People who don't understand a concept of personal responsibility always blame someone else.
If the boy was kidnaped by NK intelligence and taken to NK, that would be different.

I don't like obama at all, but what happened to this boy was self inflicted.
Still sorry for him and his family. Doctors said he has extensive brain tissue damage. Awful.

Exactly

Are liberals blaming the black mother on welfare with six kids and no father(s) for her irresponsible life choices? Or are they talking about systemic racism, the history of slavery, etc., etc.?

This kid chose to be reckless. Those women didn't choose to grow up in poverty. Not pardoning their choices, but it's way more complicated than his case.

A college kid goes to NK (admittedly something most people would not do) for a handful of days and the consequences are his fault but a woman who grows up in poverty, has multiple children she cannot afford with no father around, thereby messing up those kids' lives and expecting the taxpayer to take of them, gets a free pass to make stupid decisions for the rest of her life? And then when her children make the same poor choices because they grew up in poverty and the cycle continues, they get a free pass too?

He went to NK without his parent's knowledge and against government warnings. THEN, he broke the law there. Pretty reckless and illegal.

The women you despise may have made some bad choices, but aren't doing anything quite so reckless or illegal. They really aren't relevant here at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people blaming the Obama Admin if Americans are not allowed to travel there? Or are discouraged from going there.

People who don't understand a concept of personal responsibility always blame someone else.
If the boy was kidnaped by NK intelligence and taken to NK, that would be different.

I don't like obama at all, but what happened to this boy was self inflicted.
Still sorry for him and his family. Doctors said he has extensive brain tissue damage. Awful.

There are Americans all over the world in trouble zones. Many are missionaries (Philippines, Africa) or have dual nationality (Iran) or business interests. Some even may even be helping foment revolution or resistance to terrible regimes. I agree to travel to NK as a tourist was not a choice I would make, compounded by the poor choice in the hotel. However, this punishment was disproportionate to his actions and world wide our diplomats advocate for (and our Marines sometimes rescue) Americans being used as political pawns or unfairly treated. Thats what we do. For all of them.

You recognize the difference between the tourist who stole some precious to NKs hearts poster and a missionaries/doctors/nuns right?
I could justify marines risking their lifes to save someone one the mission, but would hate to have one of them killed due to tourist's stupidity.
And diplomacy....may be obama was not respected much among international community and could do only so much.
I am standing my grounds, it was self inflicted trouble.
Only that the boy overpaid for his actions. It's like killing a puppy for chewing an old sock.....

Of course I recognize the difference in why they're there. What isn't different is that they all are in places with travel advisories. Once they are caught up in a difficult situation, it is our government's job and duty to advocate for them as American citizens. We do that for everyone, even people who are rightfully imprisoned for criminal activities in other lands receive diplomatic checkins and services.Of course we would not send in Marines at this time to NK as the situation is so tenuous; however, diplomatic pressure is another matter. I have no idea what the Obama administration did or did not do--only that now several families have criticized how they basically advised and advocated for their hostage children overseas. From what they say, the administration was extremely and habitually "cautious".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really tragic -- and I have complete sympathy for his parents and for his life cut short. I honestly can't even imagine. The lesson here is though -- don't go to NK. Seriously folks. Its not a tourist attraction.

Lesson learned, the hard way.

Lesson for the rest of us. For him -- its just tragic.

I think the tour company should be shut down.

It was a Chinese tour company. I don't think we can just randomly shut down foreign businesses.

Understood -- but I still think they should be done. Perhaps they will be with all the bad publicity.

You realize it is much safer for Chinese to use Chinese tour companies tha Americans to, right? This kid was being held hostage. By a terrorist state. Americans make better hostages than Chinese. Because China is what passes for an ally of NK, and could GAF about its citizens.

So here's what puzzles me. Whatever happened to "you don't negotiate with terrorists." And yes, a Dennis Rodman photo op is a negotiation. But guess what happens next time NK wants another photo OP? They certainly know how to get it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people blaming the Obama Admin if Americans are not allowed to travel there? Or are discouraged from going there.

People who don't understand a concept of personal responsibility always blame someone else.
If the boy was kidnaped by NK intelligence and taken to NK, that would be different.

I don't like obama at all, but what happened to this boy was self inflicted.
Still sorry for him and his family. Doctors said he has extensive brain tissue damage. Awful.

Exactly

Are liberals blaming the black mother on welfare with six kids and no father(s) for her irresponsible life choices? Or are they talking about systemic racism, the history of slavery, etc., etc.?

This kid chose to be reckless. Those women didn't choose to grow up in poverty. Not pardoning their choices, but it's way more complicated than his case.

A college kid goes to NK (admittedly something most people would not do) for a handful of days and the consequences are his fault but a woman who grows up in poverty, has multiple children she cannot afford with no father around, thereby messing up those kids' lives and expecting the taxpayer to take of them, gets a free pass to make stupid decisions for the rest of her life? And then when her children make the same poor choices because they grew up in poverty and the cycle continues, they get a free pass too?

This is such a silly oversimplification.

The kid f-cked up. He went to NK - bad move, but okay. But then he willfully defied the laws of a country known for its despotic tendencies and its merciless justice system (if you can call it that; there's not much justice in that system). He made childish and irresponsible choices that ultimately led to his current situation. It's tragic and no, I don't believe the punishment in any way fit the crime. But the North Koreans have a different take on that and he arrogantly messed with their laws. I feel for his family and for him, but he is to blame.

As for the cycle of poverty and women having kids out of wedlock. Let's not conflate this with Otto's case. The complexity of why women AND men have children despite poverty and whether they in fact get a "free pass" (I'd argue they don't but okay) are totally different issues. Having kids out of wedlock isn't breaking the law in today's America and if we want parents to have fewer kids let's double down on free contraception, education, and providing people with access to education that gives them something to live for and aspire to. But again, this is such a different situation than Otto's case and so much more complex than can be discussed in the context of this forum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Trump made this a priority. And, had he not, this kid would still be rotting in a prison/hospital in N Korea and his family, nor anyone from our country, would know he was in a coma. "

I don't think so. The North Koreans wanted him off of their soil. Had he died there, it would be much more of a loss for them. There were no favors done here. This was for NK's benefit, plain and simple.

Hey here's a thought... don't go to North Korea!!

Seriously. Now it's Obama's fault that he didn't get Warmbier home. Maybe little Otto shouldn't have been an entitled dumbass. I have zero fucks to give about this whole thing.

....and liberals say conservatives are heartless? Just wow.

+2

I feel SO sorry for that young man. (Well, now he knows nothing, so I feel sorry for his parents.) Did any of you see him pleading for mercy from the North Korean court? And can you even imagine (I can't) the level of torture he endured that actually brought on a cardiac episode?

How can you liberals have no compassion for a young college kid who did a stupid thing, yet defend the stupid young welfare mother who keeps popping out kid, after kid, after kid, and demand that she is entitled to her own apartment and can buy lobster and manicures if she wants? (I'm pulling from another thread.)

+1

+2.

+3

Because that woman doesn't exist. It is a Conservative fantasy/fairy tale/suburban (?) legend. Completely fake.

Prayers for Otto and his family. Apparently he has been welcomed back to his community with love and no judgment. His family is highly regarded and at least will have local support. Good people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people blaming the Obama Admin if Americans are not allowed to travel there? Or are discouraged from going there.

People who don't understand a concept of personal responsibility always blame someone else.
If the boy was kidnaped by NK intelligence and taken to NK, that would be different.

I don't like obama at all, but what happened to this boy was self inflicted.
Still sorry for him and his family. Doctors said he has extensive brain tissue damage. Awful.

Exactly

Are liberals blaming the black mother on welfare with six kids and no father(s) for her irresponsible life choices? Or are they talking about systemic racism, the history of slavery, etc., etc.?

This kid chose to be reckless. Those women didn't choose to grow up in poverty. Not pardoning their choices, but it's way more complicated than his case.

A college kid goes to NK (admittedly something most people would not do) for a handful of days and the consequences are his fault but a woman who grows up in poverty, has multiple children she cannot afford with no father around, thereby messing up those kids' lives and expecting the taxpayer to take of them, gets a free pass to make stupid decisions for the rest of her life? And then when her children make the same poor choices because they grew up in poverty and the cycle continues, they get a free pass too?

What on earth are you talking about? Go back to 4Chan.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really tragic -- and I have complete sympathy for his parents and for his life cut short. I honestly can't even imagine. The lesson here is though -- don't go to NK. Seriously folks. Its not a tourist attraction.

Lesson learned, the hard way.

Lesson for the rest of us. For him -- its just tragic.

I think the tour company should be shut down.

It was a Chinese tour company. I don't think we can just randomly shut down foreign businesses.

Understood -- but I still think they should be done. Perhaps they will be with all the bad publicity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really tragic -- and I have complete sympathy for his parents and for his life cut short. I honestly can't even imagine. The lesson here is though -- don't go to NK. Seriously folks. Its not a tourist attraction.

Lesson learned, the hard way.

Lesson for the rest of us. For him -- its just tragic.

I think the tour company should be shut down.

It was a Chinese tour company. I don't think we can just randomly shut down foreign businesses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people blaming the Obama Admin if Americans are not allowed to travel there? Or are discouraged from going there.

People who don't understand a concept of personal responsibility always blame someone else.
If the boy was kidnaped by NK intelligence and taken to NK, that would be different.

I don't like obama at all, but what happened to this boy was self inflicted.
Still sorry for him and his family. Doctors said he has extensive brain tissue damage. Awful.

Exactly

Are liberals blaming the black mother on welfare with six kids and no father(s) for her irresponsible life choices? Or are they talking about systemic racism, the history of slavery, etc., etc.?

This kid chose to be reckless. Those women didn't choose to grow up in poverty. Not pardoning their choices, but it's way more complicated than his case.

A college kid goes to NK (admittedly something most people would not do) for a handful of days and the consequences are his fault but a woman who grows up in poverty, has multiple children she cannot afford with no father around, thereby messing up those kids' lives and expecting the taxpayer to take of them, gets a free pass to make stupid decisions for the rest of her life? And then when her children make the same poor choices because they grew up in poverty and the cycle continues, they get a free pass too?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Trump made this a priority. And, had he not, this kid would still be rotting in a prison/hospital in N Korea and his family, nor anyone from our country, would know he was in a coma. "

I don't think so. The North Koreans wanted him off of their soil. Had he died there, it would be much more of a loss for them. There were no favors done here. This was for NK's benefit, plain and simple.

Hey here's a thought... don't go to North Korea!!

Seriously. Now it's Obama's fault that he didn't get Warmbier home. Maybe little Otto shouldn't have been an entitled dumbass. I have zero fucks to give about this whole thing.

....and liberals say conservatives are heartless? Just wow.

+2

I feel SO sorry for that young man. (Well, now he knows nothing, so I feel sorry for his parents.) Did any of you see him pleading for mercy from the North Korean court? And can you even imagine (I can't) the level of torture he endured that actually brought on a cardiac episode?

How can you liberals have no compassion for a young college kid who did a stupid thing, yet defend the stupid young welfare mother who keeps popping out kid, after kid, after kid, and demand that she is entitled to her own apartment and can buy lobster and manicures if she wants? (I'm pulling from another thread.)

+1

+2.

+3