Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope the field test at the three schools with local HGC classes goes well. Personally, I think the best solution is to open a classroom at each ES. The representation would be closer to the school system as a whole, there would be no barrier to entry like a long bus ride, and it would make life a lot better for the kids socially. Yes, it would water down the intellectual level somewhat, but I think on average the pros of such a system would outweigh the cons.

That is a solution that meets the needs of more kids.

It also means that the Center will no longer be a Highly Gifted program - it will just be a smart kids program. Nothing wrong with that, but it is a different program altogether.

With this new system, they could still keep open a small number of highly gifted centers at separate schools, but the need and competition would be much lower since more children would be having their needs met at the home school. Part of the problem with the current system is that parents of bright but not necessarily highly gifted students have their children apply because the needs of the "bright but not highly gifted" are also not being met at the home school.

That would be ideal. Then the center can have a much more accelerated and enriched program. Howard county has a special program for those small group in addition to the home school GT program.

Anonymous wrote:I hope the field test at the three schools with local HGC classes goes well. Personally, I think the best solution is to open a classroom at each ES. The representation would be closer to the school system as a whole, there would be no barrier to entry like a long bus ride, and it would make life a lot better for the kids socially. Yes, it would water down the intellectual level somewhat, but I think on average the pros of such a system would outweigh the cons.

I agree with this. The HGC-accepted kids, including my own, we know at our home school would take this option in a heart beat. I frankly don't really care if my child is among the top 2%. We happily would agree to be with the top 10% but have access to a more enriched program at the home school. I honestly believe his current grouped friends at the local school would do just as well.

Lots of bright kids in our Cold Spring cluster and it is an inconvenience for all to have to bus the children and disrupt their overall social environment in order to go to another ES.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope the field test at the three schools with local HGC classes goes well. Personally, I think the best solution is to open a classroom at each ES. The representation would be closer to the school system as a whole, there would be no barrier to entry like a long bus ride, and it would make life a lot better for the kids socially. Yes, it would water down the intellectual level somewhat, but I think on average the pros of such a system would outweigh the cons.

That is a solution that meets the needs of more kids.

It also means that the Center will no longer be a Highly Gifted program - it will just be a smart kids program. Nothing wrong with that, but it is a different program altogether.

With this new system, they could still keep open a small number of highly gifted centers at separate schools, but the need and competition would be much lower since more children would be having their needs met at the home school. Part of the problem with the current system is that parents of bright but not necessarily highly gifted students have their children apply because the needs of the "bright but not highly gifted" are also not being met at the home school.

Anonymous wrote:I hope the field test at the three schools with local HGC classes goes well. Personally, I think the best solution is to open a classroom at each ES. The representation would be closer to the school system as a whole, there would be no barrier to entry like a long bus ride, and it would make life a lot better for the kids socially. Yes, it would water down the intellectual level somewhat, but I think on average the pros of such a system would outweigh the cons.

That is a solution that meets the needs of more kids.

It also means that the Center will no longer be a Highly Gifted program - it will just be a smart kids program. Nothing wrong with that, but it is a different program altogether.

I hope the field test at the three schools with local HGC classes goes well. Personally, I think the best solution is to open a classroom at each ES. The representation would be closer to the school system as a whole, there would be no barrier to entry like a long bus ride, and it would make life a lot better for the kids socially. Yes, it would water down the intellectual level somewhat, but I think on average the pros of such a system would outweigh the cons.

Anonymous wrote:My DS was accepted with a lower SAS than some who were waitlisted for the same school (according to this thread). I'm worried now that he won't succeed in the program. He does perform at a high level in school and MAP tests, so it's not a total fluke, but those higher sas numbers are worrying me

Same boat here, but I don't share your concern re: how my kid will do b/c of a comparatively low test score. I mean, I have some trepidation about how the HGC will work for my kid, but none of it has to do w/her score. FWIW, I have always been a miserable test-taker, and it's surely affected my schooling path. No IB or AP or Ivies for me. But I've been successful in the field of my choice as an adult, and so I'm just not convinced this HGC basket is where anyone needs to put all their eggs.

Anonymous wrote:

Wherever did you get the idea that test score is sufficient to get into the HGC? They are IN addition to other criteria
they consider. Test scores alone are NOT enough to get to the program. Not at all. You can technically Ace test if
as many Asian parents force kids to study day and night, no play dates, no nothing. But then the teachers recommendation
makes huge difference because giftedness is how the kids think and process learning and tests do not show it.
So a kid must be gifted and do great on test to be admitted, because you can pass the tests with flying colors
but if you don't have what it means to be Exceptionally Gifted and Talented but you are just able to cram cram cram,
that is such an easy task for a teacher to tell a kid like that apart. It all shows in the wash.

It's a shame you couldn't help but add that racist comment, because you could've made a compelling argument otherwise. But to claim that only (or all) Asians force their kids to cram or prep and are therefore not really gifted is utterly ridiculous. I know three kids who prepped for the high school tests, and they are all Jewish. Should I make an assumption that all Jewish students who got in to these programs did the same? No, because that would be anti-Semitic. Can't you see you're doing the same thing? And what about the high number of hapa children in these programs? Does that make them half crammer, half truly gifted?

Which rasism???? can you read? Teacher can tell the kids apart thsoe who have tealents from those who don't
IT IS NOT ABOUT SKIN COLOR!!! IT IS ABOUT THE abilities! MANY non white kids are way[u] smarter then many white kids if that is what you were worrying about. Intellect and talents are not privilege of any particular race at all and they are distributed generously and equally among kids of all races. Some kids have had better support of parents but that is not enough to
be gifted and talented. Go and see who goes to the GTC and you will see children of all races.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, HGC are NOT about cramming. Kids have to learn on the fly and they have to participate in fast paced learning
and they have to produce very creative original work all the time. Write a lot at school, often pages and pages.
If you have a kid who can cram at home but can not keep up with the peers they will struggle and struggle big time.
You get few kids like that at the Gifted Elementary but they are rather quickly left behind and do not get into
the Middle because again, you need teacher's evaluation and recommendation. Which teacher will recommend
less then extremely gifted kids having scores to choose from if they know that kid will need to keep up. It is huge disfavor to the kid to let them in only for the kids to struggle big time.

I suggest you visiting a HGC classroom and observe if those kids are truly gifted or not. From my limited experience, they are truly gifted. As to middle magnet, there are people who think eastern or TP's offerings in the non magnet components are too weak, which will hurt the overall development of the kids as many gifted kids are strong in both.

This reminds me a little of the top 10% rule that many states have, where the top 10% of a high school class are automatically admitted to the public university. Sure, it's not "fair" that some kids at more competitive schools might not get in even though they are more accomplished, but the purpose of the university is to serve the state as a whole, across classes and races. Maybe MoCo is moving toward that model in its attempt to close the achievement gap in the county.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, HGC are NOT about cramming. Kids have to learn on the fly and they have to participate in fast paced learning
and they have to produce very creative original work all the time. Write a lot at school, often pages and pages.
If you have a kid who can cram at home but can not keep up with the peers they will struggle and struggle big time.
You get few kids like that at the Gifted Elementary but they are rather quickly left behind and do not get into
the Middle because again, you need teacher's evaluation and recommendation. Which teacher will recommend
less then extremely gifted kids having scores to choose from if they know that kid will need to keep up. It is huge disfavor to the kid to let them in only for the kids to struggle big time.

As an HGC parent, I have read several descriptions of the program like this one, that are really overblown. The math is the same curriculum as home school. There are more creative assignments and writing projects, but it is not like the kids are going to college in 4th Grade. In my experience the classroom atmosphere is far more noisy with kids roaming everywhere than home school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Teacher recommendations also are unreliable. In general, teachers are not adequately trained to recognize gifted students and have many biases. It's just as likely a teacher does not realize a child is gifted as does recognize

So you see no value in a teacher's recommendations? Sometimes teachers see things parents don't. At least at our elementary school, we've known several kids who only took the test because the teachers recommended to the parents that they be tested. And almost always those kids got in... And of course recommendations are subjective, because every teacher and every student is different. But together -- the test score and the recommendation -- paint at least a decent picture of the kid's readiness. The same can be said about parents. Many parents assume their kids are gifted, while others don't have a sense of just how gifted their kid is -- without a teacher pointing it out to them.

Just give everyone the test and grab the highest scoring ones. I have no real confidence in teachers identifying gifted kids in 3rd grade.

But what happens when several kids have the same scores. This happens in higher ed. When I review applications for grad school students we often have to consider other items beyond test scores and GPA because often there are several students with very close or similar scores. We have to consider recommendations and essays as the deciding factor.

I think there should be a cut score and everyone over gets in. Might need to juggle classes some, but it would be manageable. The grad school analogy is a bit strained, not sure how much of a CV you can build by 3rd grade .

But what is a kid has a bad testing day?

i think it depends how bad. A kid can put themselves out of contention by a very poor performance.

Wherever did you get the idea that test score is sufficient to get into the HGC? They are IN addition to other criteria
they consider. Test scores alone are NOT enough to get to the program. Not at all. You can technically Ace test if
as many Asian parents force kids to study day and night, no play dates, no nothing. But then the teachers recommendation
makes huge difference because giftedness is how the kids think and process learning and tests do not show it.
So a kid must be gifted and do great on test to be admitted, because you can pass the tests with flying colors
but if you don't have what it means to be Exceptionally Gifted and Talented but you are just able to cram cram cram,
that is such an easy task for a teacher to tell a kid like that apart. It all shows in the wash.

It's a shame you couldn't help but add that racist comment, because you could've made a compelling argument otherwise. But to claim that only (or all) Asians force their kids to cram or prep and are therefore not really gifted is utterly ridiculous. I know three kids who prepped for the high school tests, and they are all Jewish. Should I make an assumption that all Jewish students who got in to these programs did the same? No, because that would be anti-Semitic. Can't you see you're doing the same thing? And what about the high number of hapa children in these programs? Does that make them half crammer, half truly gifted?

Yes, HGC are NOT about cramming. Kids have to learn on the fly and they have to participate in fast paced learning
and they have to produce very creative original work all the time. Write a lot at school, often pages and pages.
If you have a kid who can cram at home but can not keep up with the peers they will struggle and struggle big time.
You get few kids like that at the Gifted Elementary but they are rather quickly left behind and do not get into
the Middle because again, you need teacher's evaluation and recommendation. Which teacher will recommend
less then extremely gifted kids having scores to choose from if they know that kid will need to keep up. It is huge disfavor to the kid to let them in only for the kids to struggle big time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Teacher recommendations also are unreliable. In general, teachers are not adequately trained to recognize gifted students and have many biases. It's just as likely a teacher does not realize a child is gifted as does recognize

So you see no value in a teacher's recommendations? Sometimes teachers see things parents don't. At least at our elementary school, we've known several kids who only took the test because the teachers recommended to the parents that they be tested. And almost always those kids got in... And of course recommendations are subjective, because every teacher and every student is different. But together -- the test score and the recommendation -- paint at least a decent picture of the kid's readiness. The same can be said about parents. Many parents assume their kids are gifted, while others don't have a sense of just how gifted their kid is -- without a teacher pointing it out to them.

Just give everyone the test and grab the highest scoring ones. I have no real confidence in teachers identifying gifted kids in 3rd grade.

But what happens when several kids have the same scores. This happens in higher ed. When I review applications for grad school students we often have to consider other items beyond test scores and GPA because often there are several students with very close or similar scores. We have to consider recommendations and essays as the deciding factor.

I think there should be a cut score and everyone over gets in. Might need to juggle classes some, but it would be manageable. The grad school analogy is a bit strained, not sure how much of a CV you can build by 3rd grade .

But what is a kid has a bad testing day?

But what happens when several kids have the same scores. This happens in higher ed. When I review applications for grad school students we often have to consider other items beyond test scores and GPA because often there are several students with very close or similar scores. We have to consider recommendations and essays as the deciding factor


Wherever did you get the idea that test score is sufficient to get into the HGC? They are IN addition to other criteria
they consider. Test scores alone are NOT enough to get to the program. Not at all. You can technically Ace test if
as many Asian parents force kids to study day and night, no play dates, no nothing. But then the teachers recommendation
makes huge difference because giftedness is how the kids think and process learning and tests do not show it.
So a kid must be gifted and do great on test to be admitted, because you can pass the tests with flying colors
but if you don't have what it means to be Exceptionally Gifted and Talented but you are just able to cram cram cram,
that is such an easy task for a teacher to tell a kid like that apart. It all shows in the wash.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Teacher recommendations also are unreliable. In general, teachers are not adequately trained to recognize gifted students and have many biases. It's just as likely a teacher does not realize a child is gifted as does recognize

So you see no value in a teacher's recommendations? Sometimes teachers see things parents don't. At least at our elementary school, we've known several kids who only took the test because the teachers recommended to the parents that they be tested. And almost always those kids got in... And of course recommendations are subjective, because every teacher and every student is different. But together -- the test score and the recommendation -- paint at least a decent picture of the kid's readiness. The same can be said about parents. Many parents assume their kids are gifted, while others don't have a sense of just how gifted their kid is -- without a teacher pointing it out to them.

Just give everyone the test and grab the highest scoring ones. I have no real confidence in teachers identifying gifted kids in 3rd grade.

But what happens when several kids have the same scores. This happens in higher ed. When I review applications for grad school students we often have to consider other items beyond test scores and GPA because often there are several students with very close or similar scores. We have to consider recommendations and essays as the deciding factor.

I think there should be a cut score and everyone over gets in. Might need to juggle classes some, but it would be manageable. The grad school analogy is a bit strained, not sure how much of a CV you can build by 3rd grade .

But what is a kid has a bad testing day?