Anonymous wrote:

The problem is it takes 3-4 hours of work to prepare for that 7 hours, especially if you are a newer teacher. You don’t actually get time AT work to complete your work. I get 42 minutes to myself each day to plan all my lessons, grade all my assignments, contact my parents, respond to emails, complete required trainings, plan for committee meetings, meet with committees, etc. The remaining 6 hours of my day are directly in front of students. I may get to sit at my desk for 2-3 minutes at a time, but that is rare and I can’t actually complete any of my tasks when students are in the room with me. That 42 minutes needs to actually be 3-4 hours. Since it isn’t, I get a tremendous backlog of work. That’s why I work 6 days a week, with Saturday being my “catch-up” day from home. Usually it’s 10-12 hours, so I spend almost every Saturday in my home office completing what I didn’t have time to do during the work day. I often can’t do it after school because I have an obligation to run one club, help with parking duty, and run tutoring. When I do get home, usually 2 hours after my contracted time, I have to check in on my own family.

This is why I am dissatisfied. I think many teachers would feel better if our time in front of students was scaled back to give us more time for the other 50% of our job.

- Signing off to start working. I attended 6 hours of meetings today, so received no time to prepare for the school year

Friend -

You HAVE to .... HAVE to ... HAVE to! figure out ways to automate and get most of your work done while you are "in front" of the students.

Things finally got manageable for me when I started working like a doctor. You know how they sit in the room with you but are spending the whole time typing on the computer? You need to assess and grade, and organize, and clean up, WHILE the students are in the room with you.

You need to reduce the amount of grading and planning you are doing ahead of time. If it can't get done at school, it isn't going to be done at all. Automate, automate automate. Grade for completion and participation. Computer score multiple choice tests. Parent contact via automated systems if at all possible instead of lengthy phone calls. Plan adequate lessons, not fancy lessons. Have handouts or slides that are decent, good enough. Use whatever your school district provides; don't reinvent the wheel.

Spending Saturdays, all day, at home doing schoolwork is completely unsustainable.

We aren't paid enough for that. Sure, it's an amazing way to be a teacher. But to teach the way you are doing, you should teach 3 hours and have 3 hours for reflection and planning and grading. But, they won't give you those three hours without students. So you need to skimp on the thoughtful reflection, use whatever they will give you instead of creating your own, and take back your life.

Check out the 40 hour work week if you haven't already:

https://join.40htw.com

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a question for the teachers of this forum. It seems clear that a reason for job dissatisfaction is the demand for teachers to work beyond their contracted hours. Does that mean that the expectation is that all of a teacher's work should be accomplished during the regular work day?

In my county, the teachers' contract calls for a 7-hour, 35-minute work day which includes a 30-minute duty free lunch. If the expectation is that all work can be done during the contracted hours, does that mean that teachers are only expected to work 7 hours per day?

The problem is it takes 3-4 hours of work to prepare for that 7 hours, especially if you are a newer teacher. You don’t actually get time AT work to complete your work. I get 42 minutes to myself each day to plan all my lessons, grade all my assignments, contact my parents, respond to emails, complete required trainings, plan for committee meetings, meet with committees, etc. The remaining 6 hours of my day are directly in front of students. I may get to sit at my desk for 2-3 minutes at a time, but that is rare and I can’t actually complete any of my tasks when students are in the room with me. That 42 minutes needs to actually be 3-4 hours. Since it isn’t, I get a tremendous backlog of work. That’s why I work 6 days a week, with Saturday being my “catch-up” day from home. Usually it’s 10-12 hours, so I spend almost every Saturday in my home office completing what I didn’t have time to do during the work day. I often can’t do it after school because I have an obligation to run one club, help with parking duty, and run tutoring. When I do get home, usually 2 hours after my contracted time, I have to check in on my own family.

This is why I am dissatisfied. I think many teachers would feel better if our time in front of students was scaled back to give us more time for the other 50% of our job.

- Signing off to start working. I attended 6 hours of meetings today, so received no time to prepare for the school year

Exactly this. I’m not working 11 hours a day for $60,000. The only people with graduate degrees who work like that make $250,000. I’ve since stopped working like that, because they will never pay me a salary commensurate with my level of education and time commitment.

Anonymous wrote:I have a question for the teachers of this forum. It seems clear that a reason for job dissatisfaction is the demand for teachers to work beyond their contracted hours. Does that mean that the expectation is that all of a teacher's work should be accomplished during the regular work day?

In my county, the teachers' contract calls for a 7-hour, 35-minute work day which includes a 30-minute duty free lunch. If the expectation is that all work can be done during the contracted hours, does that mean that teachers are only expected to work 7 hours per day?

The problem is it takes 3-4 hours of work to prepare for that 7 hours, especially if you are a newer teacher. You don’t actually get time AT work to complete your work. I get 42 minutes to myself each day to plan all my lessons, grade all my assignments, contact my parents, respond to emails, complete required trainings, plan for committee meetings, meet with committees, etc. The remaining 6 hours of my day are directly in front of students. I may get to sit at my desk for 2-3 minutes at a time, but that is rare and I can’t actually complete any of my tasks when students are in the room with me. That 42 minutes needs to actually be 3-4 hours. Since it isn’t, I get a tremendous backlog of work. That’s why I work 6 days a week, with Saturday being my “catch-up” day from home. Usually it’s 10-12 hours, so I spend almost every Saturday in my home office completing what I didn’t have time to do during the work day. I often can’t do it after school because I have an obligation to run one club, help with parking duty, and run tutoring. When I do get home, usually 2 hours after my contracted time, I have to check in on my own family.

This is why I am dissatisfied. I think many teachers would feel better if our time in front of students was scaled back to give us more time for the other 50% of our job.

- Signing off to start working. I attended 6 hours of meetings today, so received no time to prepare for the school year

Just jumping on at p. 26 here, but no one is talking about how demoralizing it can be to work with young people. I taught for many years and loved it for many years, but there are so many days where the kids won't work, can't work, are rude, won't quiet down--and this is even in schools that are considered functional. The number of days that I cried or went home feeling miserable were higher than those of anyone I knew in a non-teaching job. You can plan so well and be creative, but the kids can just blow it all out of the water if they're not feeling it. I am in an office job now, and even when my boss or co-workers are frustrating, it's nothing like being in minute 10 of a 100-minute block scheduled class when Nick in 8B getting everyone to disrespect you because he's in a jolly mood. It's you alone with them for hours all day, and everything rests in your hands. It's so hard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a question for the teachers of this forum. It seems clear that a reason for job dissatisfaction is the demand for teachers to work beyond their contracted hours. Does that mean that the expectation is that all of a teacher's work should be accomplished during the regular work day?

In my county, the teachers' contract calls for a 7-hour, 35-minute work day which includes a 30-minute duty free lunch. If the expectation is that all work can be done during the contracted hours, does that mean that teachers are only expected to work 7 hours per day?

The adults I know who work corporate jobs usually work either 9-5 or 10-6, and they take lunch too. That’s eight hours, minus a lunch that ranges between 20 minutes to an hour plus, depending on the day. Is there a reason you think teachers should work longer days than other similarly educated professionals? Most of them also take half days for appointments or work from home on days when the weather is bad, they have a sick child, they have a plumber coming, etc. and teaching offers none of that flexibility. If they asked us to work for any longer, when would I schedule anything? Every business closes at 5 and we start at 8:00 in the morning (most teachers are there by 7).

Is this a joke? The government requires employees to work 8.5 hours a day and to take the .5 hours as a lunch. If we are taking snow days, we are working from home and not actually making hot cocoa and playing in the snow. If I have to take off for a plumber, I'm taking the time off or I'm trying to juggle a work meeting/call while the plumber is at my house.
And 5pm is not closing time unless you close your Outlook calendar and hope someone doesn't book a meeting then anyway.

Teachers have a warped view of corporate world. Do you know have friends who work office jobs?

Yes, the only people I know who are off at 5 work retail, in a store that has a closing time. Everyone in the corporate world has to work long after 5pm. Yes, there’s usually a bit of flexibility for bathroom breaks, but most people work WAY more than their 40 hours. 60 hours a week is quite common.

Bathroom breaks are whenever you need them but I don’t know many people who get off at 5pm every day or get paid for time over 40 hours.
Teaching sounds challenging and unhealthy work conditions right now. I wouldn’t use the 9-5pm corporate job with flexibility as a comparison because it’s not an accurate depiction of corporate life either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a question for the teachers of this forum. It seems clear that a reason for job dissatisfaction is the demand for teachers to work beyond their contracted hours. Does that mean that the expectation is that all of a teacher's work should be accomplished during the regular work day?

In my county, the teachers' contract calls for a 7-hour, 35-minute work day which includes a 30-minute duty free lunch. If the expectation is that all work can be done during the contracted hours, does that mean that teachers are only expected to work 7 hours per day?

The adults I know who work corporate jobs usually work either 9-5 or 10-6, and they take lunch too. That’s eight hours, minus a lunch that ranges between 20 minutes to an hour plus, depending on the day. Is there a reason you think teachers should work longer days than other similarly educated professionals? Most of them also take half days for appointments or work from home on days when the weather is bad, they have a sick child, they have a plumber coming, etc. and teaching offers none of that flexibility. If they asked us to work for any longer, when would I schedule anything? Every business closes at 5 and we start at 8:00 in the morning (most teachers are there by 7).

Is this a joke? The government requires employees to work 8.5 hours a day and to take the .5 hours as a lunch. If we are taking snow days, we are working from home and not actually making hot cocoa and playing in the snow. If I have to take off for a plumber, I'm taking the time off or I'm trying to juggle a work meeting/call while the plumber is at my house.
And 5pm is not closing time unless you close your Outlook calendar and hope someone doesn't book a meeting then anyway.

Teachers have a warped view of corporate world. Do you know have friends who work office jobs?

Yes, the only people I know who are off at 5 work retail, in a store that has a closing time. Everyone in the corporate world has to work long after 5pm. Yes, there’s usually a bit of flexibility for bathroom breaks, but most people work WAY more than their 40 hours. 60 hours a week is quite common.

I know several kids who graduated in the past few years with elementary ed degrees who couldn't get far enough away from the field once they left school. Once they understood what teaching really entails they took very different career paths.

I suppose that might be true of other areas / degrees, too, but I've noticed it more with those who started on the teaching path.

Anonymous wrote:I have several friends and family who are teachers. The biggest gripe is the non teaching stuff that is expected of them. Like crossing guard duty, random committees that have nothing to do with teaching, before school supervision, or being “encouraged” to be involved in the committee. No other professional would’ve expected to supply their office.

This plus recess duty.

I have several friends and family who are teachers. The biggest gripe is the non teaching stuff that is expected of them. Like crossing guard duty, random committees that have nothing to do with teaching, before school supervision, or being “encouraged” to be involved in the committee. No other professional would’ve expected to supply their office.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a question for the teachers of this forum. It seems clear that a reason for job dissatisfaction is the demand for teachers to work beyond their contracted hours. Does that mean that the expectation is that all of a teacher's work should be accomplished during the regular work day?

In my county, the teachers' contract calls for a 7-hour, 35-minute work day which includes a 30-minute duty free lunch. If the expectation is that all work can be done during the contracted hours, does that mean that teachers are only expected to work 7 hours per day?

The adults I know who work corporate jobs usually work either 9-5 or 10-6, and they take lunch too. That’s eight hours, minus a lunch that ranges between 20 minutes to an hour plus, depending on the day. Is there a reason you think teachers should work longer days than other similarly educated professionals? Most of them also take half days for appointments or work from home on days when the weather is bad, they have a sick child, they have a plumber coming, etc. and teaching offers none of that flexibility. If they asked us to work for any longer, when would I schedule anything? Every business closes at 5 and we start at 8:00 in the morning (most teachers are there by 7).

Is this a joke? The government requires employees to work 8.5 hours a day and to take the .5 hours as a lunch. If we are taking snow days, we are working from home and not actually making hot cocoa and playing in the snow. If I have to take off for a plumber, I'm taking the time off or I'm trying to juggle a work meeting/call while the plumber is at my house.
And 5pm is not closing time unless you close your Outlook calendar and hope someone doesn't book a meeting then anyway.

Teachers have a warped view of corporate world. Do you know have friends who work office jobs?

So you don’t work a corporate job, you work a civil service job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a question for the teachers of this forum. It seems clear that a reason for job dissatisfaction is the demand for teachers to work beyond their contracted hours. Does that mean that the expectation is that all of a teacher's work should be accomplished during the regular work day?

In my county, the teachers' contract calls for a 7-hour, 35-minute work day which includes a 30-minute duty free lunch. If the expectation is that all work can be done during the contracted hours, does that mean that teachers are only expected to work 7 hours per day?

The adults I know who work corporate jobs usually work either 9-5 or 10-6, and they take lunch too. That’s eight hours, minus a lunch that ranges between 20 minutes to an hour plus, depending on the day. Is there a reason you think teachers should work longer days than other similarly educated professionals? Most of them also take half days for appointments or work from home on days when the weather is bad, they have a sick child, they have a plumber coming, etc. and teaching offers none of that flexibility. If they asked us to work for any longer, when would I schedule anything? Every business closes at 5 and we start at 8:00 in the morning (most teachers are there by 7).

Is this a joke? The government requires employees to work 8.5 hours a day and to take the .5 hours as a lunch. If we are taking snow days, we are working from home and not actually making hot cocoa and playing in the snow. If I have to take off for a plumber, I'm taking the time off or I'm trying to juggle a work meeting/call while the plumber is at my house.
And 5pm is not closing time unless you close your Outlook calendar and hope someone doesn't book a meeting then anyway.

Teachers have a warped view of corporate world. Do you know have friends who work office jobs?

You should probably quit if you are this unhappy. Lots of jobs out there that would fit your requirements, you're probably bad at your job anyway.

Wait, wait, wait, hold up.. Why would I talk to you like that? The lack of respect for the hard work that you do and the sacrifices you make is needless and spiteful. I would much rather offer you the possibility that their is a range of experience out there and that yours may be more atypical than you think.

Thank you for the work you do. It may be better paid, it may be WFH, it may be better respected, but certainly it must be just as noble and critical to a functioning democratic society. What was it that you do again?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a question for the teachers of this forum. It seems clear that a reason for job dissatisfaction is the demand for teachers to work beyond their contracted hours. Does that mean that the expectation is that all of a teacher's work should be accomplished during the regular work day?

In my county, the teachers' contract calls for a 7-hour, 35-minute work day which includes a 30-minute duty free lunch. If the expectation is that all work can be done during the contracted hours, does that mean that teachers are only expected to work 7 hours per day?

The adults I know who work corporate jobs usually work either 9-5 or 10-6, and they take lunch too. That’s eight hours, minus a lunch that ranges between 20 minutes to an hour plus, depending on the day. Is there a reason you think teachers should work longer days than other similarly educated professionals? Most of them also take half days for appointments or work from home on days when the weather is bad, they have a sick child, they have a plumber coming, etc. and teaching offers none of that flexibility. If they asked us to work for any longer, when would I schedule anything? Every business closes at 5 and we start at 8:00 in the morning (most teachers are there by 7).

Is this a joke? The government requires employees to work 8.5 hours a day and to take the .5 hours as a lunch. If we are taking snow days, we are working from home and not actually making hot cocoa and playing in the snow. If I have to take off for a plumber, I'm taking the time off or I'm trying to juggle a work meeting/call while the plumber is at my house.
And 5pm is not closing time unless you close your Outlook calendar and hope someone doesn't book a meeting then anyway.

Teachers have a warped view of corporate world. Do you know have friends who work office jobs?

Not every job is created the same. I’ve worked many, many jobs because my husband gets relocated often. I’ve had several jobs that required me to be there eight hours a day but I probably “worked” less than two hours a day. I’ve spend many hours staring at the computer with very few tasks to complete or attended meetings where I listen and answer 1-2 questions. These jobs all paid over $75K a year.

I’ve worked with so many people that socialize with other people for hours on end while talking about how busy they are. I’m sure some jobs are very stressful: doctors, lawyers, etc but I doubt the average job is harder than teaching.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a question for the teachers of this forum. It seems clear that a reason for job dissatisfaction is the demand for teachers to work beyond their contracted hours. Does that mean that the expectation is that all of a teacher's work should be accomplished during the regular work day?

In my county, the teachers' contract calls for a 7-hour, 35-minute work day which includes a 30-minute duty free lunch. If the expectation is that all work can be done during the contracted hours, does that mean that teachers are only expected to work 7 hours per day?

The adults I know who work corporate jobs usually work either 9-5 or 10-6, and they take lunch too. That’s eight hours, minus a lunch that ranges between 20 minutes to an hour plus, depending on the day. Is there a reason you think teachers should work longer days than other similarly educated professionals? Most of them also take half days for appointments or work from home on days when the weather is bad, they have a sick child, they have a plumber coming, etc. and teaching offers none of that flexibility. If they asked us to work for any longer, when would I schedule anything? Every business closes at 5 and we start at 8:00 in the morning (most teachers are there by 7).

Is this a joke? The government requires employees to work 8.5 hours a day and to take the .5 hours as a lunch. If we are taking snow days, we are working from home and not actually making hot cocoa and playing in the snow. If I have to take off for a plumber, I'm taking the time off or I'm trying to juggle a work meeting/call while the plumber is at my house.
And 5pm is not closing time unless you close your Outlook calendar and hope someone doesn't book a meeting then anyway.

Teachers have a warped view of corporate world. Do you know have friends who work office jobs?

People working in the corporate world are usually permitted to go to the bathroom. My current schedule is 5 hours with no allowance for the restroom. In a windowless room with questionable air flow. ( No, the students aren't also under those restrictions, they can come and go as needed but the class cannot be left unsupervised for a teacher to take a trip down the hall)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a question for the teachers of this forum. It seems clear that a reason for job dissatisfaction is the demand for teachers to work beyond their contracted hours. Does that mean that the expectation is that all of a teacher's work should be accomplished during the regular work day?

In my county, the teachers' contract calls for a 7-hour, 35-minute work day which includes a 30-minute duty free lunch. If the expectation is that all work can be done during the contracted hours, does that mean that teachers are only expected to work 7 hours per day?

The adults I know who work corporate jobs usually work either 9-5 or 10-6, and they take lunch too. That’s eight hours, minus a lunch that ranges between 20 minutes to an hour plus, depending on the day. Is there a reason you think teachers should work longer days than other similarly educated professionals? Most of them also take half days for appointments or work from home on days when the weather is bad, they have a sick child, they have a plumber coming, etc. and teaching offers none of that flexibility. If they asked us to work for any longer, when would I schedule anything? Every business closes at 5 and we start at 8:00 in the morning (most teachers are there by 7).

Is this a joke? The government requires employees to work 8.5 hours a day and to take the .5 hours as a lunch. If we are taking snow days, we are working from home and not actually making hot cocoa and playing in the snow. If I have to take off for a plumber, I'm taking the time off or I'm trying to juggle a work meeting/call while the plumber is at my house.
And 5pm is not closing time unless you close your Outlook calendar and hope someone doesn't book a meeting then anyway.

Teachers have a warped view of corporate world. Do you know have friends who work office jobs?

Anonymous wrote:I have a question for the teachers of this forum. It seems clear that a reason for job dissatisfaction is the demand for teachers to work beyond their contracted hours. Does that mean that the expectation is that all of a teacher's work should be accomplished during the regular work day?

In my county, the teachers' contract calls for a 7-hour, 35-minute work day which includes a 30-minute duty free lunch. If the expectation is that all work can be done during the contracted hours, does that mean that teachers are only expected to work 7 hours per day?

Speaking for myself, I am not advocating for a short workday. I would kill for a regular 8.5 workday like I had in the corporate world. Beyond that 7.5 hours I have required meetings (staff, committee, and team) most days; those last 60-90 minutes. Then after that begins my non-contract time planning, grading, and preparation; I am an experienced teacher so those "only" take me on average another 60-90 minutes per day, but one night per week I end up having to work a couple of more hours and finish up additional tasks like training, documenting student needs and writing referrals to child study, copying for the next week, etc. My planning periods during the day are often not true planning--they are spent in structured meetings analyzing data or meeting with specialized facilitators to plan for what I need to plan in my individual planning.

I am in a high-poverty, predominantly ESL school and most of our staff cycles in and out within 3-5 years of starting with us and the time demands are definitely a factor.