Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Realistically, what should we expect of our government when its closest ally commits heinous war crimes on a daily basis and LITERALLY had the chutzpah to establish a term (“preemptive self-defense”) to describe how they have authorized themselves to attack anyone, anywhere on the basis of what amounts to - at most - unadjudicated thought crimes.

We think you aim to harm us. Therefore, we are entitled to attack you.

Just sit with that. That’s our closest ally.

And some of you sincerely wonder why many in Iran, whose government we interfered with and toppled about 75 years about, and whose national interests we continue to interfere with right up to this very day, are deeply distrustful of the U.S. government.

Seems that they likely have a hell of a lot more reasons to hate us than we have reasons to hate them. Yes, there is a lot more complexity, but that about sums it up for the average citizen in both countries.

As always, ymmv.

See, remarks like the bolded just show you're either a troll or have been living under a rock for almost 50 years. This regime wants Americans dead. They - and their proxies - have never been shy about their intentions.
DP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:182 dead (mostly children, all innocent non-combatants as far as we know) and there’s at least one poster in here who is not only refusing to just say “It looks like we F’d up, that’s horrendously tragic, and we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard when we’re attacking other countries and expecting the world to view our conduct above that of a rogue regime”, but REPEATEDLY engaging in Whataboutism and intentionally misrepresenting what others have said and done throughout the thread.

20-30 thousand innocent non-combatants were hunted for sport and shot in the streets of Iran by Basij and IRGC and there's at least one poster here who repeatedly keeps trying to minimize and deflect from these kinds of far greater tragedies inflicted on the Iranian people, while shrieking that talking about it is dishonest and whataboutism, who keeps persistently calling us names, accusing us of being "Zionists" and otherwise trying silence and control the conversation, attacking anyone who doesn't side with their "intentionality" framing around the Minab school bombing. Nobody here has denied the bombing happened, nobody here celebrated it, nobody here has said it wasn't a tragedy; if anything they've questioned the narrative (probably from this same poster) insisting that kids were targeted knowingly and intentionally and that "we" are "killing civilians for sport" despite the lack of any concrete evidence for that to date.

We also are apparently not going to be shushed and scolded and yelled at if we talk about the hundreds of innocent non-combatant civilians killed in Israel, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc by Iran's barrages of ballistic missiles and waves of drones, we aren't allowed to suggest that Iran f'ed up and what they are doing is horrific. And only some of us are supposed to own up to mistakes made by leadership we didn't even vote for, while the poster himself expects to be given a pass and refuses to own up for repeatedly making false and outrageous comments like suggesting we think it's "ok to kill kids" and many other things, which are absolutely not misrepresentations.

That pretty much sums up the last bunch of pages here...

You realize that 100,000 Palestinians were killed, 200,000 more were injured, and millions were starved during an ongoing 2.5 year campaign of daily war crimes and crimes against humanity?

Iran is facing an existential threat. Trump has basically said that he plans on sending them back to the stone age (the simple pronouncement of which can be constituted as a war crime by the way).

Israel's genocidal campaign is inexcusable and America is protecting that decrepit place. You can't compare that with Iran's reaction to a psyops campaign by Mossad/CIA to foment domestic chaos followed by an asymmetrical defensive war against 20 nations and counting.

I'm not sure how you can call all the Arab countries that host American forces as innocent. Look at the map. They have been attacked from almost all of those countries.

So in your zionist worldview. "Preemptive self-defense" is okay when you drop bombs on schools, hospitals, airports, and downtowns. Literally a Pearl Harbor job. However, "reactive self-defense" in response to the aforementioned war crimes by a more formidable adversary is somehow bad.

No one is claiming that Iran is a great place. But they are a sovereign nation with an elected president, and are one of the member nations of the UN. We have no business conducting a war against a country that poses no threat to the homeland. Should we also invade North Korea? They're actually the only country that poses a semblance of a real threat to America since they have ballistic missiles that can hit us.

History will judge and Americans have not been kind to the war crimes that America has committed in the past. How can Americans even hold their heads up high knowing that this is happening? And it happened in Venezuela. And is happening as a proxy in Mexico. And will happen in Cuba and probably Iraq and Afghanistan again as well. We need to remove the traitors from the government.

You call out 170 kids killed in a school, yes - an atrocity
You call out 100,000 killed in Gaza, yes - an atrocity
But call out 20-30,000 killed by Iran just a little over a month ago? - merely "not a good place" and "no real threat" and "whataboutism" - so dismissive.

And to try and claim the protests were a "CIA/Mossad psyop" is ludicrous considering there were millions protesting in 190+ cities across Iran. But sure, it's all just a few dozen CIA and Mossad guys disguised as Persians running around like Speedy Gonzales waving lion flags making it look like they are millions. Sorry, but that's just pure delusion. There's a genuine groundswell. The protests have been organic, and bottom-up. Anyone claiming otherwise is ignoring mountains of evidence.

Sorry but Iran absolutely is a threat. They have called us "Satan" and have vowed to destroy us since 1979. They have conducted in countless assassinations, bombings, terror attacks and so on, whether directly or through proxies - it's not just about ballistic missiles.

You claim "existential threat" and cite some Trumpy blathering bluster about "stone age" - which nobody actually takes seriously. He's stated his aim is regime change. Someone other than an extremist Ayatollah. And that's what millions of Iranian people want, too. They, by the way, also had no say in selecting Mojtaba Khameini as Supreme Leader. And Pezeshkian was only "elected" out of a pre-approved group of candidates hand-picked by the ruling elite. The true reformers who people would prefer in Iran's leadership are either dead, in jail, or exiled. The people of Iran had no genuinely free choice in who to elect.

Also, as people have repeatedly told you, waving off criticism by claiming everyone's a "Zionist" isn't working. It's foolish and massively misses the mark. I for one am not a Jew, am not even a Christian, and have zero allegiance to Israel, and I'd be the first to agree that Netanyahu, Yoav Gallant, Halevi, Ben Gvir, Smotrich, Netanyahu's War Cabinet, Shin Bet and other heads should be prosecuted over Gaza. In that light, you should feel really foolish for constantly accusing me and others of being a "Zionist." That's the kind of thing that constantly undermines your credibility and calls your arguments into question rather than giving you whatever you think it does, whether moral footing or a sound basis for trying to shut others down. It doesn't work because it's false.

Anonymous wrote:Realistically, what should we expect of our government when its closest ally commits heinous war crimes on a daily basis and LITERALLY had the chutzpah to establish a term (“preemptive self-defense”) to describe how they have authorized themselves to attack anyone, anywhere on the basis of what amounts to - at most - unadjudicated thought crimes.

We think you aim to harm us. Therefore, we are entitled to attack you.

Just sit with that. That’s our closest ally.

And some of you sincerely wonder why many in Iran, whose government we interfered with and toppled about 75 years about, and whose national interests we continue to interfere with right up to this very day, are deeply distrustful of the U.S. government.

Seems that they likely have a hell of a lot more reasons to hate us than we have reasons to hate them. Yes, there is a lot more complexity, but that about sums it up for the average citizen in both countries.

As always, ymmv.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the second day of a war that no one in the US government has elaborated a clear justification for, we the American taxpayer killed 150+ kids.

Incredible what damage an incompetent and value-free administration can do.

So there is this thing that the Israelis started to do years ago. If you claim there is a high priority target in the area you can avoid war crime charges. It has been very successful for the Israelis. You blow up a hospital…well senior leadership was using the hospital as a hidden bunker. No proof is needed. You just need to claim it. There are a few independent journalists in Israel who have constructed the history of this.

Very surprised the US military owned up to this. A lot of careers died with the release of this report.

Who could they have blamed for the error? None of the warring parties used Tomahawks except for the Americans. It was a pink and blue colored school with asphalt playing fields and the New York Times shows photos that it had been a school since 2016 at least.

They means our military maps have been wrong since 2016 then.

Anonymous wrote:On the second day of a war that no one in the US government has elaborated a clear justification for, we the American taxpayer killed 150+ kids.

Incredible what damage an incompetent and value-free administration can do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the second day of a war that no one in the US government has elaborated a clear justification for, we the American taxpayer killed 150+ kids.

Incredible what damage an incompetent and value-free administration can do.

So there is this thing that the Israelis started to do years ago. If you claim there is a high priority target in the area you can avoid war crime charges. It has been very successful for the Israelis. You blow up a hospital…well senior leadership was using the hospital as a hidden bunker. No proof is needed. You just need to claim it. There are a few independent journalists in Israel who have constructed the history of this.

Very surprised the US military owned up to this. A lot of careers died with the release of this report.

It took a few days but they have owned up to it. Agree, some people may see their military careers end over this mistake. If only that were to include Hegseth, we can only hope. That said, the IRGC base in Minab was indeed and undeniably a high priority military target, serving key naval functions, serving as a missile base, and key logistics coordination point. It supported Fast-Attack Craft operations, a key component to Iran's strategies for controlling the Strait of Hormuz, and other functions. Independent OSINT confirmed numerous direct hits on various base facilities which shows it was in fact the main target, not the school. It can also be seen in aerial imagery that the school was not even 150 feet from the current base footprint and that it was built in very similar style and construction to the other buildings on the base - because it not long ago was part of the base. Far too close for safety. In a wartime footing, the children should have been evacuated to a safer location. Yes, the US has schools for soldiers' kids on military bases, but there are clear protocols and guidance, in the event of a war threat, evacuation of the kids to a shelter, hardened location etc is one of the installation's top priorities. The US put that protocol into action in Iraq numerous times, in Turkey in 2016, in Japan during Fukushima etc. The IRGC on the other hand had no evident plan or protocol for the safety of kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the second day of a war that no one in the US government has elaborated a clear justification for, we the American taxpayer killed 150+ kids.

Incredible what damage an incompetent and value-free administration can do.

So there is this thing that the Israelis started to do years ago. If you claim there is a high priority target in the area you can avoid war crime charges. It has been very successful for the Israelis. You blow up a hospital…well senior leadership was using the hospital as a hidden bunker. No proof is needed. You just need to claim it. There are a few independent journalists in Israel who have constructed the history of this.

Very surprised the US military owned up to this. A lot of careers died with the release of this report.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:182 dead (mostly children, all innocent non-combatants as far as we know) and there’s at least one poster in here who is not only refusing to just say “It looks like we F’d up, that’s horrendously tragic, and we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard when we’re attacking other countries and expecting the world to view our conduct above that of a rogue regime”, but REPEATEDLY engaging in Whataboutism and intentionally misrepresenting what others have said and done throughout the thread.

20-30 thousand innocent non-combatants were hunted for sport and shot in the streets of Iran by Basij and IRGC and there's at least one poster here who repeatedly keeps trying to minimize and deflect from these kinds of far greater tragedies inflicted on the Iranian people, while shrieking that talking about it is dishonest and whataboutism, who keeps persistently calling us names, accusing us of being "Zionists" and otherwise trying silence and control the conversation, attacking anyone who doesn't side with their "intentionality" framing around the Minab school bombing. Nobody here has denied the bombing happened, nobody here celebrated it, nobody here has said it wasn't a tragedy; if anything they've questioned the narrative (probably from this same poster) insisting that kids were targeted knowingly and intentionally and that "we" are "killing civilians for sport" despite the lack of any concrete evidence for that to date.

We also are apparently not going to be shushed and scolded and yelled at if we talk about the hundreds of innocent non-combatant civilians killed in Israel, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc by Iran's barrages of ballistic missiles and waves of drones, we aren't allowed to suggest that Iran f'ed up and what they are doing is horrific. And only some of us are supposed to own up to mistakes made by leadership we didn't even vote for, while the poster himself expects to be given a pass and refuses to own up for repeatedly making false and outrageous comments like suggesting we think it's "ok to kill kids" and many other things, which are absolutely not misrepresentations.

That pretty much sums up the last bunch of pages here...

You realize that 100,000 Palestinians were killed, 200,000 more were injured, and millions were starved during an ongoing 2.5 year campaign of daily war crimes and crimes against humanity?

Iran is facing an existential threat. Trump has basically said that he plans on sending them back to the stone age (the simple pronouncement of which can be constituted as a war crime by the way).

Israel's genocidal campaign is inexcusable and America is protecting that decrepit place. You can't compare that with Iran's reaction to a psyops campaign by Mossad/CIA to foment domestic chaos followed by an asymmetrical defensive war against 20 nations and counting.

I'm not sure how you can call all the Arab countries that host American forces as innocent. Look at the map. They have been attacked from almost all of those countries.

So in your zionist worldview. "Preemptive self-defense" is okay when you drop bombs on schools, hospitals, airports, and downtowns. Literally a Pearl Harbor job. However, "reactive self-defense" in response to the aforementioned war crimes by a more formidable adversary is somehow bad.

No one is claiming that Iran is a great place. But they are a sovereign nation with an elected president, and are one of the member nations of the UN. We have no business conducting a war against a country that poses no threat to the homeland. Should we also invade North Korea? They're actually the only country that poses a semblance of a real threat to America since they have ballistic missiles that can hit us.

History will judge and Americans have not been kind to the war crimes that America has committed in the past. How can Americans even hold their heads up high knowing that this is happening? And it happened in Venezuela. And is happening as a proxy in Mexico. And will happen in Cuba and probably Iraq and Afghanistan again as well. We need to remove the traitors from the government.

You call out 170 kids killed in a school, yes - an atrocity
You call out 100,000 killed in Gaza, yes - an atrocity
But call out 20-30,000 killed by Iran just a little over a month ago? - merely "not a good place" and "no real threat" and "whataboutism" - so dismissive.

And to try and claim the protests were a "CIA/Mossad psyop" is ludicrous considering there were millions protesting in 190+ cities across Iran. But sure, it's all just a few dozen CIA and Mossad guys disguised as Persians running around like Speedy Gonzales waving lion flags making it look like they are millions. Sorry, but that's just pure delusion. There's a genuine groundswell. The protests have been organic, and bottom-up. Anyone claiming otherwise is ignoring mountains of evidence.

Sorry but Iran absolutely is a threat. They have called us "Satan" and have vowed to destroy us since 1979. They have conducted in countless assassinations, bombings, terror attacks and so on, whether directly or through proxies - it's not just about ballistic missiles.

You claim "existential threat" and cite some Trumpy blathering bluster about "stone age" - which nobody actually takes seriously. He's stated his aim is regime change. Someone other than an extremist Ayatollah. And that's what millions of Iranian people want, too. They, by the way, also had no say in selecting Mojtaba Khameini as Supreme Leader. And Pezeshkian was only "elected" out of a pre-approved group of candidates hand-picked by the ruling elite. The true reformers who people would prefer in Iran's leadership are either dead, in jail, or exiled. The people of Iran had no genuinely free choice in who to elect.

Also, as people have repeatedly told you, waving off criticism by claiming everyone's a "Zionist" isn't working. It's foolish and massively misses the mark. I for one am not a Jew, am not even a Christian, and have zero allegiance to Israel, and I'd be the first to agree that Netanyahu, Yoav Gallant, Halevi, Ben Gvir, Smotrich, Netanyahu's War Cabinet, Shin Bet and other heads should be prosecuted over Gaza. In that light, you should feel really foolish for constantly accusing me and others of being a "Zionist." That's the kind of thing that constantly undermines your credibility and calls your arguments into question rather than giving you whatever you think it does, whether moral footing or a sound basis for trying to shut others down. It doesn't work because it's false.

Blah, blah blah, You are justifying state sponsored terrorism. You Zionists need to more to Israel and enlist. You can shoot unarmed people waving a white flag or maybe do what Hegseth did and kill prisoners of war.

2 years ago the US did not target civilians or double tap shipwreck survivors. The pattern is clear.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the second day of a war that no one in the US government has elaborated a clear justification for, we the American taxpayer killed 150+ kids.

Incredible what damage an incompetent and value-free administration can do.

So there is this thing that the Israelis started to do years ago. If you claim there is a high priority target in the area you can avoid war crime charges. It has been very successful for the Israelis. You blow up a hospital…well senior leadership was using the hospital as a hidden bunker. No proof is needed. You just need to claim it. There are a few independent journalists in Israel who have constructed the history of this.

Very surprised the US military owned up to this. A lot of careers died with the release of this report.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:182 dead (mostly children, all innocent non-combatants as far as we know) and there’s at least one poster in here who is not only refusing to just say “It looks like we F’d up, that’s horrendously tragic, and we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard when we’re attacking other countries and expecting the world to view our conduct above that of a rogue regime”, but REPEATEDLY engaging in Whataboutism and intentionally misrepresenting what others have said and done throughout the thread.

20-30 thousand innocent non-combatants were hunted for sport and shot in the streets of Iran by Basij and IRGC and there's at least one poster here who repeatedly keeps trying to minimize and deflect from these kinds of far greater tragedies inflicted on the Iranian people, while shrieking that talking about it is dishonest and whataboutism, who keeps persistently calling us names, accusing us of being "Zionists" and otherwise trying silence and control the conversation, attacking anyone who doesn't side with their "intentionality" framing around the Minab school bombing. Nobody here has denied the bombing happened, nobody here celebrated it, nobody here has said it wasn't a tragedy; if anything they've questioned the narrative (probably from this same poster) insisting that kids were targeted knowingly and intentionally and that "we" are "killing civilians for sport" despite the lack of any concrete evidence for that to date.

We also are apparently not going to be shushed and scolded and yelled at if we talk about the hundreds of innocent non-combatant civilians killed in Israel, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc by Iran's barrages of ballistic missiles and waves of drones, we aren't allowed to suggest that Iran f'ed up and what they are doing is horrific. And only some of us are supposed to own up to mistakes made by leadership we didn't even vote for, while the poster himself expects to be given a pass and refuses to own up for repeatedly making false and outrageous comments like suggesting we think it's "ok to kill kids" and many other things, which are absolutely not misrepresentations.

That pretty much sums up the last bunch of pages here...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the second day of a war that no one in the US government has elaborated a clear justification for, we the American taxpayer killed 150+ kids.

Incredible what damage an incompetent and value-free administration can do.

So there is this thing that the Israelis started to do years ago. If you claim there is a high priority target in the area you can avoid war crime charges. It has been very successful for the Israelis. You blow up a hospital…well senior leadership was using the hospital as a hidden bunker. No proof is needed. You just need to claim it. There are a few independent journalists in Israel who have constructed the history of this.

Very surprised the US military owned up to this. A lot of careers died with the release of this report.

Who could they have blamed for the error? None of the warring parties used Tomahawks except for the Americans. It was a pink and blue colored school with asphalt playing fields and the New York Times shows photos that it had been a school since 2016 at least.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the second day of a war that no one in the US government has elaborated a clear justification for, we the American taxpayer killed 150+ kids.

Incredible what damage an incompetent and value-free administration can do.

So there is this thing that the Israelis started to do years ago. If you claim there is a high priority target in the area you can avoid war crime charges. It has been very successful for the Israelis. You blow up a hospital…well senior leadership was using the hospital as a hidden bunker. No proof is needed. You just need to claim it. There are a few independent journalists in Israel who have constructed the history of this.

Very surprised the US military owned up to this. A lot of careers died with the release of this report.

Who could they have blamed for the error? None of the warring parties used Tomahawks except for the Americans. It was a pink and blue colored school with asphalt playing fields and the New York Times shows photos that it had been a school since 2016 at least.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:182 dead (mostly children, all innocent non-combatants as far as we know) and there’s at least one poster in here who is not only refusing to just say “It looks like we F’d up, that’s horrendously tragic, and we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard when we’re attacking other countries and expecting the world to view our conduct above that of a rogue regime”, but REPEATEDLY engaging in Whataboutism and intentionally misrepresenting what others have said and done throughout the thread.

Iran uses them as human shield for military , the guard

Nearly all of the 161 US DoDEA schools are located directly on military installations. Is the US government using students in DOD schools as human shields?