These are the undisputed facts.

1) Asian population @TJ is still bigger than all other groups combined.
2) Selection is race-blind
3) The largest beneficiaries of the change were low-income Asians.

This makes it hard for anyone to buy this nonsense about discrimination.

Anonymous wrote:3. QUANT-Q DOESN’T RELEASE MATERIALS
The company that offers Quant-Q intentionally does NOT release materials to the public - it’s very different than SAT, ACT, etc. They want to “measure your natural ability”. And test takers agreed to not share any parts of the test.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Based on the NDAs, any test prep books or companies that obtain and share example quant-q test questions may have been unethically, or even potentially illegally, produced.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
[i]“Test Taker Interface User Agreement
In this agreement, each person who accesses this interface is called a “user,” and whatever a user accesses is called an “instrument.”
Copyright Protected: The user acknowledges that this online interface and everything in it are proprietary business property of the California Academic Press LLC and are protected by international copyrights. Except as permitted by purchased use licenses, the user agrees not to reproduce, distribute, hack, harm, limit, alter, or edit this interface or any part of any instrument or results report, table or analysis stored in, generated by, or delivered through this interface.

Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement: The user agrees not to copy, disclose, describe, imitate, replicate, or mirror this interface or this instrument(s) in whole or in part for any purpose. The user agrees not to create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive instrument or instruments for a period of up to four years from the date of the user’s most recent access.

And yet you can get books on amazon...
https://www.amazon.com/TJHSST-Quant-Q-Vol-1/dp/1950573788

Anonymous wrote:5. TJ STUDENTS ADMIT SHARING QUANT-Q QUESTIONS
TJ students admitted both on DCUM and on Facebook, anonymously and with real name, that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents
Thread started July 11, 2020

I have screenshots but won’t share because they have student names on them.

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”

The second article does not indicate anything about sharing Quant-Q questions. The TJ today article was posted in Feb of 2018, and the author states that she is a senior. That means that she was an 8th grader who took TJ prep and the TJ exams in 2014, well before the Quant-Q or any other protected tests were used. It's also highly unlikely that she took any prep classes at Curie, because her surname is not South Asian. Stop spreading falsehoods.

If you look at the 4 years prior to the chance and the 4 years after, there are, on average, 29 fewer Asian students per admitted clsss - that is an 8% reduction.




And there are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than almost any other year in the school’s history. Asian students still make up the majority of students. More than all other groups, combined.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

$20K on prep? Pfft, this isn't travel ball.

I don't know exactly how much curie is but it looks like a couple thousand a year at most and the test prep is $300.
This is just more racist rationalization trying to explain why asians are outperforming white kids all over the country and at every income level.

For the “signature program” it’s $7k for all 4 semesters. More if you start your kid before 7th grade.

“Curie Learning’s Signature Level 7/8 Program
This program incorporates high-level coursework in math, English, writing, science, and critical thinking, with a focus on preparation for success in high school and college. This program will help students to not only prepare for any advanced institutions such as AOS/AET and TJ, but also to succeed and even thrive in any high school and later in any college/university.

Semester 1: (4 classes/month) $1,095.00 Aug. 25th, 2023 - Dec.19th, 2023
*Semester 2: (7 classes/month) $1,850.00 Jan. 2nd, 2024 - June 23rd, 2024
Additional $300 for extra classes for new students. (Mandatory)
Semester 3 (option 1): (8-11 classes/month) $1,850.00 + $300 (TJ/AOS/AET Extra Prep classes):
Jul.8th, 2024 - Dec 2024
Semester 3 (option 2): (7 classes/month) $1,200.00 Sept 2023 - Dec 2023
Semester 4: (6 classes/month) $1,600.00 Jan 2024-Jun 2024”

So about $280/month?
That's not nothing but it doesn't seem like a rich kid program.

Can't argue with success. Their ad in the paper showed that one-third of TJ's entering class were their customers.

When a huge portion of the admitted class comes from an expensive test prep company then you know something is wrong.


For many years, people have been appalled at how a public school magnet excluded so many groups in the community. The class of 2024 had less than 1% (0.6%) of the students from low-income families. Very little representation from URMs and MSs with many low-income families. TJ was mostly filled with kids from affluent "feeder" middle schools.

FCPS has changed the TJ admissions process multiple times over the years to address systemic inequalities.
https://www.fcag.org/tjadmissions.shtml

Expensive test prep has also been an ongoing issue that exacerbated the lack of representation from certain MSs and groups.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” [school board member] Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

"McLaughlin, like other board members, still worries about Washington’s booming test-prep industry. Modeled on Korean “cram” schools, classes meet after school, on weekends, and throughout the summer. “They’ve become professionals at that process of getting into TJ,” says Josh Silverman, a private tutor in the area."


Paying to have access to previous test questions on an NDA-protected test provides an unfair advantage to wealthy kids in admissions for this public school program.

Real name. Took the prep class.

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”

Anonymous wrote:https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl

That's the post that's referred to.

Not deleted

2. CONCERN ABOUT TJ PREP INDUSTRY
There was also public concern about the TJ test prep industry that led, in part, to changes in the admissions process. By reverse engineering the admissions criteria/process, prep companies offered kids an unfair advantage in admissions. In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


3. QUANT-Q DOESN’T RELEASE MATERIALS
The company that offers Quant-Q intentionally does NOT release materials to the public - it’s very different than SAT, ACT, etc. They want to “measure your natural ability”. And test takers agreed to not share any parts of the test.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

Based on the NDAs, any test prep books or companies that obtain and share example quant-q test questions may have been unethically, or even potentially illegally, produced.

https://insightassessment.com/policies/
“Test Taker Interface User Agreement
In this agreement, each person who accesses this interface is called a “user,” and whatever a user accesses is called an “instrument.”
Copyright Protected: The user acknowledges that this online interface and everything in it are proprietary business property of the California Academic Press LLC and are protected by international copyrights. Except as permitted by purchased use licenses, the user agrees not to reproduce, distribute, hack, harm, limit, alter, or edit this interface or any part of any instrument or results report, table or analysis stored in, generated by, or delivered through this interface.

Non-Disclosure and Non-Compete Agreement: The user agrees not to copy, disclose, describe, imitate, replicate, or mirror this interface or this instrument(s) in whole or in part for any purpose. The user agrees not to create, design, develop, publish, market, or distribute any comparable or competitive instrument or instruments for a period of up to four years from the date of the user’s most recent access.


[i]"Remember that the goal of a critical thinking assessment is to measure your natural ability to think critically, so there’s no need for extensive preparation. Just be yourself and approach the assessment with a clear mind."



4. TJ STUDENTS ACKNOWLEDGED UNFAIR ADVANTAGE
TH students and others have acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy.

https://www.tjtoday.org/29411/features/students-divided-on-proposed-changes-to-admissions-process/
“ “Personally, TJ admissions was not a challenge to navigate. I had a sibling who attended before me. However, a lot of resources needed to navigate admissions cost money. That is an unfair advantage given to more economically advantaged students,” junior Vivi Rao said. ”



5. TJ STUDENTS ADMIT SHARING QUANT-Q QUESTIONS
TJ students admitted both on DCUM and on Facebook, anonymously and with real name, that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents
Thread started July 11, 2020

I have screenshots but won’t share because they have student names on them.

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”




7. NO DISCRIMINATION

There are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than almost any other year in the school’s history.

Asian students still make up the majority of students. More than all other groups, combined.

And Asian students are still accepted at a higher rate than almost all other groups, aside from Hispanic students (class of 25).

The number of Asian students enrolled at TJ by school year (fall):


The data also shows that Asian students were accepted at a higher rate than almost all other groups, aside from Hispanic students.

Asian 19%
Black 14%
Hispanic 21%
White 17%
Multiracial/Other* 13%
ALL 18%

The reason they had to get rid of tests is that if they kept the test and implemented the 1.5% rule, the asian population would increase at the expense of mostly the white population with only tiny benefits to the URM population.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is false and is illegal. If you can prove it, you can win a massive multimillion-dollar suit against the county!

A court already looked at all the evidence and in the end the US Courts determined the board’s move was legal. Some might not like that outcome, but we all live in a nation with laws and
courts.

That is true, but some are committed to spreading a false narratigve because they prefer a system that is easy to game.

Sure if hard work, sacrifice and studying are gaming the system.
At some point the "diversity first" crowd realized that they could never achieve parity because one group studied harder than other groups and started equating studying with cheating.
This is how civilizations are lost.

That's not what they were saying. The problem is it wasn't about hard work but being wealthy enough to buy access to the entry exam.

And we know that they are full of chit.
Noone was buying access to the exam.
And if they were, it is access that is available to the general public for like $20-$40
You can buy quant Q TJHSST test prep books on amazon for about that much.


https://www.amazon.com/New-TJHSST-Math-Workbook-Advanced/dp/1794340904
https://www.amazon.com/TJHSST-Quant-Q-Vol-1/dp/1950573788